Over the past couple of months we've had frequent outbursts of immature behaviour, primarily in the gallery, where members would upload pictures of models and other content, which other members would then question the legitimacy of - often times claiming the models had been stolen.  After working endlessly throughout these past couple of months, trying to understand the problem and directly contacting a lot of the members involved, we established that a) many authors of work, such as models, feel as though we were not doing enough to combat pictures of stolen models being uploaded, and that b) many of these 'flame wars' were motivated by other factors including simple vendettas or hatred towards both communities and authors themselves.  

 

In response to this, we've made it clear that in all cases where violation of the Community Guidelines is suspected, and most relevant in these situations, the rules concerning 'Plagiarism & Copyright', that the content was to be reported to us immediately, through the report button, and that no public accusations or attempts at backseat moderating were to be made.

 

Unfortunately, despite our efforts, these problems still persist, and therefore we have been left with no option but to make a formal, public announcement regarding this situation, and what is and what isn't acceptable content and conduct on LCPDFR.

 

Clearly, by looking at this latest incident: http://www.lcpdfr.com/gallery/image/27215-detective-2014-vapid-police-interceptor/, this problem is still prevalent, and no reports are being filed despite our repeated requests and messages stating that for us to take action, the content must be reported to us.

 

I want to make the following perfectly clear, that there is absolutely no place in this community for:

• Members who cannot follow simple and reasonable instructions from our staff team.
• Members that fail to respect the work of others by claiming others' work to be their own.
• Members that are abusive to other members or staff.

To give you an idea of the problem that we face concerning issues with theft, stolen content, or improper credits, since Monday 25th, October 2010, we have received 3,160 reports from members.  Of these reports, 263 contained the words 'credits' (56), 'stolen' (41) , 'permission' (74) and 'theft' (92).  It should be noted that in these cases, terms such as 'Grand Theft Auto' would be counted as a report containing the word 'theft'.  

 

Additionally, in the past two weeks, we've had three reports that concern the issue, with two of them relating to a member uploading a skin which contained a model and one about a texture which is being used without permission.

 

For a look at how we deal with such reports, I've attached screenshots of two recent reports, complete with the comments made on them by the staff team.

 

I've been told repeatedly, as have our staff team, particularly Nicolai, that theft and improper credits and acknowledgements are a major problem facing LCPDFR and the GTA community.  Despite this, and how large and widespread the problem is, we have only had 3 reports filed in the past two weeks regarding it.  We would certainly think that there would be more than three reports in two weeks given what we have been told by various well known authors, and therefore either content which violates our guidelines is not being reported, or the problem isn't as big as it is made out to be.

 

Of course, from the disputes and fights which we've had babysit, it's pretty clear to everyone here that there is a problem regarding theft, and that nobody is actually doing anything about it other than resorting to childish name calling, making public accusations, backseat moderating and making threats.  We don't have eyes and ears everywhere, and we cannot act on cases where no report is made.  If you think that someone has stolen your work, or that you have not been properly credited, or that someone is falsely taking credit for your work, please get in contact with us through the report button.  Under no circumstances should anyone take matters into their own hands - we will simply not tolerate further instances of immature conduct.

 

Similarly, if you notice any disputes, fights, backseat moderation or public accusations regarding this matter, please report the relevant posts to the Community Team so that we can deal with the user in question and help to quash the aurora of hostility that seems to grip some parts of our community at this moment.

 

This is a modding community - it is built on the principle of people sharing their work for others to enjoy.  Our staff team aren't here to run a daycare centre for immature and aggressive people.  Believe it or not, just about all of us are modders too, and we'd far rather be developing LCPDFR, making cool vehicles and sharing unique textures for everyone who is a member of this website to enjoy.

 

Sam.

 

 

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Eloquently stated Sam. It's tiring to see so many people complaining, yet so few interested in actually trying to help. I can only imagine how much of a headache it is for the team to deal with all of this. 

Sam, I will respect your community SOP's and will use the report system. Hope it works!

 

Thanks.

 

I do appreciate the extra effort that's gone into the trolling after we've acknowledged it...

 

It's a shame, I'd rather not leave this abomination up for all to see, but perhaps it better illustrates the way that certain people treat us and our members.  Nothing productive, no reports, no dialogue, just a bunch of funny pictures.  You would think that after all the hard work that our members and staff do around here that there would be some more appreciation, you know, getting everything for free, having a massive downloads section, working our butts off on releasing a new LCPDFR.

 

It brings into question why we actually continue with this to be honest.

<snip>

 

It brings into question why we actually continue with this to be honest.

Because of the people on this forum who are like, hmm....Ineseri for example. That's why you do it. <3

Regarding the issue pertaining to the image Sam posted: JokerMods was caught evading his ban by our multi account reporting system.

 

 

This is where we are, we all expect our tasks here to be thankless every now and then. We do however have a line that mustn't be crossed, we're five time zones over the line right now.

Because of the people on this forum who are like, hmm....Ineseri for example. That's why you do it. <3

You are too kind :) 

 

@Sam and the rest of the team: Hang in there. You're doing a great job. 

I know that I have no right in what goes on here, but IMO, those who were speaking/commenting on the flame war in the original post made by Sam, should have some sort of swift and lengthy punishment be given to them. And I mean all of them, Why? To show that the administrators of the site will not deal with any more of what went on. Like I said, I have no vote in what goes on, and I'm sure the administrators have dealt with the people in question accordingly. I just hope all of this drama will die down soon, and we can all put this behind us. It is such a shame to see people who are of an age that they should know better than to bicker like wee children over an issue that could've been solved by simply clicking the Report button. This community is too great and too strong to have to deal with this. I know that the Admins will do what is right because they want what is best for the community.

If it's not a released download or a "This is a download I plan on releasing" picture, why would people even think it's worthy of reporting?

If it's not a released download or a "This is a download I plan on releasing" picture, why would people even think it's worthy of reporting?

Because a majority of the people Sam addressed in his post were told to report it multiple times instead of making public accusations.

I am in no position to question anyone of the staff but I will. Yes it's not right but some of the things are left unanswered. I have PMed Sam and NicolaiB. 

It sucks that there are people that break the rules about that. Sam i hope you guys are able to get everything under control soon

Theft of anyone's work is simply not acceptable and the best way to deal with it is to report it to the official moderators, as the LCPDFR staff have requested.

 

As someone who has had several original ideas and various original content stolen / replicated over the last several years, the best way to handle the situation is to act like an adult and involve the appropriate staff / supervisors into the situation. If anyone posts any of the content stolen from me on here, I would certainly hope that anyone who recognizes it would report it; I know I would.

 

On a side note, anyone who steals someone else's content or original ideas and tries to pass them off as their own is an ethical disgrace, and clearly not the type of person who deserves to even pretend to be a police officer in a video game. It's such a shame that integrity seems to be so lacking in the GTA IV police role play world, when law enforcement in general is supposed to represent the pinnacle of honesty.

Because a majority of the people Sam addressed in his post were told to report it multiple times instead of making public accusations.

 

Okay, bad wording. I just don't get why people think they should complain over a picture that's not saying "this is totally my work that I'm releasing".

Edited January 21, 201412 yr by The Loot

Sam should ban all the f-heads in that thread.  Sends a real strong message that that shit isn't tolerated.  THEN, let everybody here know it happened and why.  

 

When I have issues with folks at work, they get suspended or terminated, period.  That kind of thing grows like a damn cancer, and spreads faster than a mid-July wildfire.  I keep the policy very harsh until everybody gets it through their head, and once that happens, I loosen the reins a bit.  

 

Anytime you deal with a bunch of people these things can get away from you fast if not squashed.  Especially the likes of those in that post in particular, whom are childish, irreverent and disrespectful.  Who the heck needs 'em around anyhow?  

 

Cut the cancer out with the mighty ban-hammer.  They should be banned until further notice for being assholes in general, and dickhead to Sam in particular.  It's your site, your dime, they can kiss your ass, disrespectful little kids...if not little kids, they should be ashamed for acting like one.

 

Good day and good luck,

 

DrDetroit

Edited January 21, 201412 yr by drdetroit

This basicly just sounds like a hate-thread against those trying to defend a modder's work. People didn't report those pictures anymore because staff was simply not doing anything. Pictures with ripped models weren't the cause for any action, nothing happend until somebody released stolen mods. So what happenend next? Modders, who tried to stick together against thieves obviously at least wanted the public to know about stolen mods and therefore commented on these images. Comments like these were removed and people were warned, which is obviously giving the feeling of staff protecting rippers. For a vehicle modder or modeler, it is often very simple to recognize a specific part, there actually were no unjustified accusations.

In the end, there were heaps of pissed off modders as well as pissed off staff. There were comments that simply asked about a model's author or polite, yet stingingly sarcastic comments about how great other people's work looks. Any comment similar to these was removed, even though, if it was posted by somebody else than the usual suspects, it might would have been alright. It is in my opinion it's no wonder that the situation escalated. This just reminds of the situation we had some years ago, when obviously stolen mods uploaded to the database weren't removed, unless the author reported it. Unless you're really showing action will be taken, people probably won't calm down again, and since some got a large amount of warnings or even had their accounts banned, this is not simply going to be forgotten. It kind of seems like nowadays, almost all of the better known car modders left this site.

 

@Sam: When I asked you why people got warnings for their comments, you said you didn't like public accusing, yet you're now publicly stiring hatred up against those commenting the picture in your screenshot. Maybe it wasn't even your intention, but reading other people's posts here, this is what your screenshot did.

 

 

This is my opinion as somebody who tried to stay out of that fight but still knows both sides of the story. I've talked to people who got warning points or even bans because of those comments, as well as Sam about trying to find a proper rule to take action against rippers.

Sam should ban all the f-heads in that thread.  Sends a real strong message that that shit isn't tolerated.  THEN, let everybody here know it happened and why.  

 

When I have issues with folks at work, they get suspended or terminated, period.  That kind of thing grows like a damn cancer, and spreads faster than a mid-July wildfire.  I keep the policy very harsh until everybody gets it through their head, and once that happens, I loosen the reins a bit.  

 

Anytime you deal with a bunch of people these things can get away from you fast if not squashed.  Especially the likes of those in that post in particular, whom are childish, irreverent and disrespectful.  Who the heck needs 'em around anyhow?  

 

Cut the cancer out with the mighty ban-hammer.  They should be banned until further notice for being assholes in general, and dickhead to Sam in particular.  It's your site, your dime, they can kiss your ass, disrespectful little kids...if not little kids, they should be ashamed for acting like one.

 

Good day and good luck,

 

DrDetroit

We are addressing this issue and sanctions were issued, and will continue to be issued for violating our Community Guidelines.

There is no place on LCPDFR.com for people who have been repeatedly repeatedly warned about how to approach the issue and continue to disrespect our rules and as a whole, our community.

Okay, bad wording. I just don't get why people think they should complain over a picture that's not saying "this is totally my work that I'm releasing".

That was the best part, he wasn't even claming that the model in the picture was his own work.

This basicly just sounds like a hate-thread against those trying to defend a modder's work. People didn't report those pictures anymore because staff was simply not doing anything. Pictures with ripped models weren't the cause for any action, nothing happend until somebody released stolen mods. So what happenend next? Modders, who tried to stick together against thieves obviously at least wanted the public to know about stolen mods and therefore commented on these images. Comments like these were removed and people were warned, which is obviously giving the feeling of staff protecting rippers. For a vehicle modder or modeler, it is often very simple to recognize a specific part, there actually were no unjustified accusations.

In the end, there were heaps of pissed off modders as well as pissed off staff. There were comments that simply asked about a model's author or polite, yet stingingly sarcastic comments about how great other people's work looks. Any comment similar to these was removed, even though, if it was posted by somebody else than the usual suspects, it might would have been alright. It is in my opinion it's no wonder that the situation escalated. This just reminds of the situation we had some years ago, when obviously stolen mods uploaded to the database weren't removed, unless the author reported it. Unless you're really showing action will be taken, people probably won't calm down again, and since some got a large amount of warnings or even had their accounts banned, this is not simply going to be forgotten. It kind of seems like nowadays, almost all of the better known car modders left this site.

 

@Sam: When I asked you why people got warnings for their comments, you said you didn't like public accusing, yet you're now publicly stiring hatred up against those commenting the picture in your screenshot. Maybe it wasn't even your intention, but reading other people's posts here, this is what your screenshot did.

 

 

This is my opinion as somebody who tried to stay out of that fight but still knows both sides of the story. I've talked to people who got warning points or even bans because of those comments, as well as Sam about trying to find a proper rule to take action against rippers.

 

Ever heard the old adage; "It's not what you say, it's how you say it.".  100% true.

 

Those children should learn manners and respect.  The issue is now lost with all that crap in that thread/comments to the pic.  I mean come on!  It's a damn pic, not a released model, and the guy didn't say it was his mods.  Everybody was harping on that guy about a damn hubcap for crying out loud.  Who cares (!, especially now that the issue has been lost to badgering and unreasonable remarks and responses.

 

Folks need to grow up and learn how to handle situations properly.  You can't behave like that, especially if you plan on living in the real world when you get a job (not you in particular...you in a general sense). 

 

DrDetroit

This basicly just sounds like a hate-thread against those trying to defend a modder's work. People didn't report those pictures anymore because staff was simply not doing anything. Pictures with ripped models weren't the cause for any action, nothing happend until somebody released stolen mods. So what happenend next? Modders, who tried to stick together against thieves obviously at least wanted the public to know about stolen mods and therefore commented on these images. Comments like these were removed and people were warned, which is obviously giving the feeling of staff protecting rippers. For a vehicle modder or modeler, it is often very simple to recognize a specific part, there actually were no unjustified accusations.

In the end, there were heaps of pissed off modders as well as pissed off staff. There were comments that simply asked about a model's author or polite, yet stingingly sarcastic comments about how great other people's work looks. Any comment similar to these was removed, even though, if it was posted by somebody else than the usual suspects, it might would have been alright. It is in my opinion it's no wonder that the situation escalated. This just reminds of the situation we had some years ago, when obviously stolen mods uploaded to the database weren't removed, unless the author reported it. Unless you're really showing action will be taken, people probably won't calm down again, and since some got a large amount of warnings or even had their accounts banned, this is not simply going to be forgotten. It kind of seems like nowadays, almost all of the better known car modders left this site.

 

@Sam: When I asked you why people got warnings for their comments, you said you didn't like public accusing, yet you're now publicly stiring hatred up against those commenting the picture in your screenshot. Maybe it wasn't even your intention, but reading other people's posts here, this is what your screenshot did.

 

 

This is my opinion as somebody who tried to stay out of that fight but still knows both sides of the story. I've talked to people who got warning points or even bans because of those comments, as well as Sam about trying to find a proper rule to take action against rippers.

 

So it's okay to break the rules whenever you feel like we aren't doing "enough" because we're not going to take severe sanctions against some gallery images?

 

We've always taken action when we had evidence that content was used without permission.

We have asked for input from the people that kept making accusations, but nothing changed, the accusations kept flying and fights kept occuring even though we made it clear that it's not acceptable and that we are working on finding a solution.

Ever heard the old adage; "It's not what you say, it's how you say it.".  100% true.

 

Those children should learn manners and respect.  The issue is now lost with all that crap in that thread/comments to the pic.  I mean come on!  It's a damn pic, not a released model, and the guy didn't say it was his mods.  Everybody was harping on that guy about a damn hubcap for crying out loud.  Who cares (!, especially now that the issue has been lost to badgering and unreasonable remarks and responses.

In this case it's more like 'it's not how you say it, but who says it'. Let me tell you, "that guy" did more than just posting these few pictures. To name a few examples, there were pictures of Dodgeboy's Interceptor which has been converted without permission, there were pictures of hubcaps and bumpers, both were unique models that had been recognized by their creators.

 

The majority of the community won't understand what it means to create a mod, in these case even models like whole vehicles. Don't think the allegations had no reason.

 

I'm not trying defend deco's or JokerMods' actions, I'm trying to let you understand them and what happend before. I actually don't even care about this case in particular, I don't want a specific member to look completely innocent, although he is not.

 

So it's okay to break the rules whenever you feel like we aren't doing "enough" because we're not going to take severe sanctions against some gallery images?

 

We've always taken action when we had evidence that content was used without permission.

We have asked for input from the people that kept making accusations, but nothing changed, the accusations kept flying and fights kept occuring even though we made it clear that it's not acceptable and that we are working on finding a solution.

Which rules have been broken? The issue were the public accusations, yet that's what's happening in this thread here as well, but carried out by staff. Your guidelines state "abusing, teasing, demeaning, 'flaming' or 'trolling'" are forbidden, yet these words purely depend on interpretation. You don't even call them rules but guidelines. Unlike rules, guidelines usually aren't even mandatory.

I do understand that you don't want people to break the rules that aren't clearly written down, but I want you to understand that your rules were unrightful in many people's eyes. LCPDFR wants to be a modding website and therefore needs to protect modders against thieves. You're speaking about "some" gallery images, but if one single person keeps posting models obviously belonging to other authors, it is provoking and staff should take action.

 

As I said before, I've talked to quite a few of the people involved. I do agree with you that nothing changed. I know at least three people who tried to help you improve your rules and tell you what's their issue with the pictures, yet, as far as I know, every advise has been blocked, since you didn't want to cause any unverifiable suspicions. I've already had this discussion with Sam, I don't need to repeat it.

 

What do you expect people to do, if they get warnings for their comments and get told staff is thinking about a better idea? They obviously won't like the fact nothing changes for months. As I've said before, many modders left LCPDFR.com and went to other websites. They don't care about getting more warnings because they don't use that page anyways.

Of course you can always say that they violated the rules and should just go somewhere else. Then they're called childish because they simply follow that advise.

You can try to make your community fit your rules and ban every third member, or you make your rules fit your community.