Which you could do by sending a polite PM to the user before taking it up in a public fora.

 

@Will, the user requested the image to be removed which we complied with so I can't find the date of upload in the album it was uploaded to, I'd appreciate it if Jewish_banana could tell me roughly when it was uploaded as I can only see 10 reports per page in our reports system, it'd take me quite a while to dig though all gallery reports from the past three months.

Which you could do by sending a polite PM to the user before taking it up in a public fora.

 

@Will, the user requested the image to be removed which we complied with so I can't find the date of upload in the album it was uploaded to, I'd appreciate it if Jewish_banana could tell me roughly when it was uploaded as I can only see 10 reports per page in our reports system, it'd take me quite a while to dig though all gallery reports from the past three months.

 

Around December 31st according to the quote time stamps.

I've read many times this expression: "made from scratch". For real? Maybe I'm wrong, but... Aren't these models based on drawings made by other designers? Isn't it, to be honest, a rip of someone else work?

I've also read that expressions very often: It's just made by somebody, else you're just copying it. Again: It's done because that's expected by the community. That's what many people appreciate, they can replace the default vehicles with some high quality real life cars.

There's a difference between taking a model made by some different author or scratch-modeling a whole vehicle accurately, perfectly fitted for GTA.

 

But, simpy I don't get the point of arguing about "copyrights". Even if it's awfully annoying not being credited for your own work, is it worth to get "angry" like this? I understand that, in this case, the reward is personal satisfaction. But it's always better to remain "one level above". And as many of you maybe know: frequently happens to not being properly credited for your own drawings in more important real work situations. It happens! And best solution is, in my opinion (and experience), to don't mind it at all =)

If you ignore it, how do you expect anything to change? Theft is always a main problem in all modding communities, they all try to find a way to get around that. I know another community creating public lists of people not being allowed to use specific mods and then let staff enforce it. Do you think that is a better way?

 

How about PMing the user asking them to add credit, then if they don't, report it? Instead of publicly accusing them (which they may not even notice since there is no notification for picture comments by default) then insulting G17 Media.  I can understand wanting to settle it before bringing the staff in, but there are better ways of accomplishing this.

Commenting is a lot faster though, and, more important, you want people to know about the actual credits immediatly, you don't want to wait until the user might do that himself. But knowing the doggedness of that specific person, talking to him personally is not going to change anything. Knowing what staff does about ripped models in the gallery, reporting is not going to cause anything. You rather want to warn other people that this mod is not his work, although he says so.

That particular image has 1 report, it was reported by a moderator who wanted input about how he should handle the comments in question.

 

The comments on the image in question were disabled completely, something we've done several times before when the comments on a image consistently violated community guidelines, the violation in this particular incident concerned "Obstruction, circumvention and interference":

 

 

We have these set of guidelines for a reason which is simply to make our site the best it possibly can be. We want to encourage people to share their content, discuss topics important to them and interact with the large community that our site thrives on. We don't however, want to allow people opportunities to use other people to their advantage, post offensive material or create a hostile or unproductive atmosphere in general. In order for us to do this, we rely on our members taking it upon themselves to follow these guidelines and obviously in cases where they don't, we have to do something about it. We simply won't tolerate it if our staff are obstructed from carrying out their duties or if any other malicious attempts are made to interfere with the operations of the community and network in general. Anyone found to be obstructing or interfering with the operation of the community or circumventing any sanctions, restrictions or limits will be subject to serious consequences, including the possibility of permanent banishment.

 

None of those that commented were issued with any warnings or any sanctions.

I've also read that expressions very often: It's just made by somebody, else you're just copying it. Again: It's done because that's expected by the community. That's what many people appreciate, they can replace the default vehicles with some high quality real life cars.

There's a difference between taking a model made by some different author or scratch-modeling a whole vehicle accurately, perfectly fitted for GTA.

 

If you ignore it, how do you expect anything to change? Theft is always a main problem in all modding communities, they all try to find a way to get around that. I know another community creating public lists of people not being allowed to use specific mods and then let staff enforce it. Do you think that is a better way?

 

 

Of course there's a difference: it was just an example, an exasperation. The point is: while it is necessary to properly credit others' work (even with forced admin actions), is this "witch hunt" worth it?

 

I think that freedom of expression is more important than trying to find obstructing constrains for "stealers". Let them "steal"!

More people working means more experimentation, more competition, more quality. Isn't it?

 

The open source mentality is the winning one.

Cj: If content doesn't break the rules, we won't take action, but a report still gives us the information in case it's useful in the future (e.g. if the file is uploaded). However, we have rules against public theft accusations. If you don't like them, you are free to criticize them, suggest alternatives, ask that they be changed, etc. But until they're changed, they're the rules. One thing we've seen a lot of is people deciding that it's most important that people know something is ripped, and so they're free to post in public if staff won't do anything. That's not the case. Much of our frustration is that people respond to rules they don't like by first breaking them repeatedly, then getting extremely angry when we act based on the rulebreaking. The people who do this seem to feel that if they think the rules are bad, they should be able to break them without consequence. When they do that, it makes them lose credibility when arguing for rule changes - habitually ignoring rules you dislike makes it seem less likely that you'll be willing to work with us and compromise on anything.

I think that freedom of expression is more important than trying to find obstructing constrains for "stealers". Let them "steal"!

More people working means more experimentation, more competition, more quality. Isn't it?

You would expect that, but it seems like nobody actually wants to do quality work. When I was still having my own website, I checked many uploaded mods in terms of quality, you always had the same mistakes: Incorrect materials and missing or wrong LODs. People do care more about adding more and more details, yet there're more and more bugs.

 

If content doesn't break the rules, we won't take action, but a report still gives us the information in case it's useful in the future (e.g. if the file is uploaded).

Yet it's not going to change anything so far for the developer. That's why I say you need rules for the gallery as well. Again, my own website, that rule was working just fine. Whenever there was an obvious resemblance, we contacted the author of the picture. If the user was able to prove the suspicion wrong, everything was settled or we were sure we dealt with a thief. I see there're many threads getting closed immediatly for being in the wrong category or comments being removed for whatever reason, what's the issue with taking action against pictures then? Even only removing them is already a progress compared to the current situation.

 

However, we have rules against public theft accusations.

Yet they are not written down in your guidelines. If asking for credits is considered "interference and obstruction", there'll be many people to warn in the filebase.

 

If you don't like them, you are free to criticize them, suggest alternatives, ask that they be changed, etc.

I'm trying, yet all my suggestions are rejected and in the end, nothing is going to change with the new rules. Now I am being criticized. I guess you understand why many people believe that you bite on granite when trying to debate against staff on LCPDFR.

You was not "you Cj24"; it was "you generic second-person". I wasn't accusing you Cj24 of breaking the rules, since you seem to generally *not* engage in public accusations and are doing exactly what you should: asking for rule changes. Sorry for any confusion.

I understood what you were saying, I was still going into what you've written. I was just saying that many people don't give suggestions because they believe nothing changes anyways.

Nicolai said the guideline violation in the specific picture shown above was Obstruction and Interference. All that was done though was asking for proper credits and you confirmed public theft accusations are not allowed. My point is, is correcting credits actually to be put on the same level as saying something is ripped? The quoted guideline paragraph is basicly just saying you need to follow the guidelines, yet the guidelines say nothing about accusations. Or is it considered interfering because of doing the moderator's job?

   It's really sad to see what this site has turned into. At times like this, I don't even want to be part of this community anymore. 

 It used to be a place where everyone would help each other and get along. Now it seems to have turned into a competition for modders, and a place where people can advertise their clan, website and mods that aren't even hosted on here. Not every car made from scratch is going to be perfect, and just because a car is really good, that a somewhat unknown modder created, it doesn't mean that parts were ripped/ stolen. While some may actually be stolen, solid evidence has to be given proving the rip, otherwise it's not fair to the person being accused. Far too many people have been forced out of the site because of this, and asked to have their accounts deactivated. This should not happen, ever. 

 

  I honestly think Cj24 does make some good points. But the problem here is that both parties are wrong. I think we, as a staff team, could have taken more action. And the modders could have reported the previews/ uploads, as we have asked many times of them to do so, rather than posting large images and useless shit. On the other hand, Cj24, you fail to realize that we can't put all of our focus on modders and their previews/ uploads. We have to monitor reports, the general forum, approve downloads, handle Multiple Account Reports (most of which don't even get handled because there's so many), and we still have 3,000+ topics to move from the forum reorganization archive. We have to divide our time equally for everything on our plate. We are a relatively small staff team for our site, especially with the absence of Break, who will hopefully return soon, and another staff member, who will never be coming back after seeing this. 

 

  Those PM's posted in here are completely disrespectful and sickening, and I would understand why any volunteer staff member would want to leave this site after reading something like that. Telling someone to commit suicide is unnecessary and extreme. We have lives, and we have personal issues to deal with, especially me. We all do our best to come on here in our free time to run the site.

We have asked all of you for suggestions in improving this site, but unfortunately, the only thing posted was a "LOL DIDNT READ" meme. We gave you your chance, and you blew it. Now we, unfortunately, are taking this into our own hands. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sadly it's drama similar to this which caused FCRP to shut down. People decided that the staff team (of which I was a part of) weren't doing their jobs correctly and decided to continuously break the rules, and not listen to a thing we said. Sam and , as well as most of the rest of the staff team, got tired of it, and ultimately, Sam made the decision to pull the plug permanently.

 

There was more to it than that, obviously, but you can read the post on the website to get the full story.

Edited January 24, 201412 yr by willpv23

Sadly it's drama similar to this which caused FCRP to shut down. People decided that the staff team (of which I was a part of) weren't doing their jobs correctly and decided to continuously break the rules, and not listen to a thing we said. Sam and , as well as most of the rest of the staff team, got tired of it, and ultimately, Sam made the decision to pull the plug permanently.

 

There was more to it than that, obviously, but you can read the post on the website to get the full story.

 

http://fcrp.quaker.org/

 

mmh, interesting...

http://fcrp.quaker.org/

 

mmh, interesting...

 

http://www.bonecounty.com/articles.html/_/articles/status-of-fcrp-r22

It's difficult to take the complaints serious if people don't give suggestions because they believe we won't listen. Those that "complain" seems to only want to make us look bad or prove a point, there's little will from them to actually follow up on it when we try and do something, the clearest example was the post Iconography linked to a couple of pages ago, I asked for input in late October where issues like theft, questions or concerns about all rules could have been brought up, either in that public thread or in a PM.

 

I'm also noticing in this thread that the responses seem to change focus once we bring up something concrete, I tried explain the suggested rule so it was clearer what how it was intended, but the focus in the replies changed away from it to addressing a different issue.

 

 

Accusations are covered in our guidelines under abuse, discrimination or obstruction:

 

Abuse
We all want to have a good time here across the entire G17 Media Network. Any member found to be intentionally preventing other members from enjoying themselves, be that by abusing, teasing, demeaning, 'flaming' or 'trolling' them, will be subject to serious consequences.

General Etiquette
We expect members to follow and show regard for general etiquette. Forums and all types of discussions should be kept clean, tidy and readable. Posting messages or other forms of communication which are unstructured, messy or otherwise hard to read or understand should be avoided. The basic premise of all G17 Media communities and services is that members can interact freely with each other in a welcoming environment. For a more in-depth description of forum etiquette and some examples of bad practice, see http://forum-service...uette-tips.html

Discrimination
The G17 Media Network was set up as a place for enthusiastic supporters and members to interact with each other and with the projects and services offered or otherwise managed or maintained by G17 Media, irrespective of who they are or what they believe in. We strongly believe in creating a welcoming environment across all of our services and projects and will not tolerate any forms of discrimination including but not limited to those based around skin colour, ethnic background, sexual orientation or preferences, age and gender. Any members found to be in violation of this policy will face serious consequences, including network-wide banishment if necessary.

 

Why are the accusations covered there, particularly in obstruction?

 

By now it's more than "just" accusations, it's getting to the point where a small group of users are making a determined effort to interfere with the community the site in general, they don't follow orders given to them by moderators. A vast minority of these users circumvent the sanctions we imposed.

 

That's a much, much bigger issue.

 

Nobody has made an effort to contact us before or after the situation escalated, nobody contacted us and asked for clarification about the rules.

Nobody tried to address their concerns to us after they were told that we couldn't' do anything about the gallery issue, anyone involved could have contacted me, Sam or any moderator if they had concerns about the way we dealt the issue, you could have asked exactly how we interpret the rules as it looked like we had different views on them.

Some of you have me, Sam or other staff members on Steam, Skype or other IM clients, we all have PM inboxes, we've made public announcements where we asked for input, I'd think that would at least show at least a little indication from our side about addressing issues and concerns about the site.

 

Those involved wanted to do the accusations in public, you even touched on that subject. I could argue that we're in public here, that dealing with this in public is what those involved wanted from the beginning.

It's only a problem when accusations fly towards those that engaged in the issues Sam addressed in the first post.

You justify violating the guidelines because we don't' listen, you justify not contacting us because we wouldn't care anyway if you did. Until now, the approach has been to deliberately cause as much problems on here as possible.

 

Our suggestions are either shot down or the subject changes to a different thing as soon as we try and actually do something that actually would address at least some parts of the issues talked about.

Nobody has seemed to acknowledge my earlier points where I described the situation in-depth or even paid any attention to our concerns about the issues. Nobody replied or quoted anything from those posts, nobody accepted or acknowledged anything we've said. It's either rendered useless or the subject is changed.

 

We don't expect every member to take everyone else into consideration. That's what the Community Team is here for. We expect people to understand that and agree to at the very least attempt to understand that and understand that it will affect how we address issues.

We cannot get anywhere until there's some common understanding and agreement that everything here could have been handled differently. But I'm getting more and more concerned that some of those that are involved aren't here to actually address the issues they claim to address.

 

Sam, me, and everyone on CT, management and development team is here because we DO want LCPDFR to be a good place, we care about LCPDFR and we want to make it as good as it can be. We didn't ban anyone right away or apply "harsh sanctions" because it would only deteriorate the situation more, we've only taken action and issues suspensions when literally everything else we did to address it were ignored.

 

 

Before we get anywhere we need to agree on a few things. That from now on we'll all focus on addressing the issues instead of arguing over the past We need to agree that the solutions we find will actually be something that works, as opposed to empty gestures.

Most of all, we need to agree that the rules MUST be followed, that instructions given by moderators MUST be followed, regardless of you agree with it. It doesn't' mean that we can't talk about the rules, at least so we can take care of any misunderstandings or possibly get input that will help us see a issue in a different way.

We can't change everything overnight, we can do some changes relatively soon, but some things may have to wait, we can find a temporary solution that will be in effect until a permanent solution can be put in place.

What if we start off with a list of things we, the users and the staff, think need to be changed/improved? That way we've got something to build on and we won't have people changing subjects everytime. And when we've got a list we can work together, find solutions and solve this mess once and for all.

I'm sorry that some parts and quotes might be a bit too long and incoherent, I had to go from 17 to 10 quotes as I'm not allowed to do more.

 

Now it seems to have turned into a competition for modders, and a place where people can advertise their clan, website and mods that aren't even hosted on here.

Not every car made from scratch is going to be perfect, and just because a car is really good, that a somewhat unknown modder created, it doesn't mean that parts were ripped/ stolen.

While some may actually be stolen, solid evidence has to be given proving the rip, otherwise it's not fair to the person being accused. Far too many people have been forced out of the site because of this, and asked to have their accounts deactivated. This should not happen, ever.

And the modders could have reported the previews/ uploads, as we have asked many times of them to do so, rather than posting large images and useless shit.

These are all things that were mentioned already way before. I just remember when you published the rule posting mods hosted on different websites is forbidden, people were complaining that this is not the way a liberal modding website should go. I won't go into that in-depth, but it's another example of suggestions and criticism that failed and this gave the feeling staff simply ignores them.

It's not going to be considered stolen, nobody ever said it does. There're a very managable amount of modelers capable of scratch-modeling. Nobody ever accused an author for simply having a good car, there were always obviously similar parts. You know how you find out which models are the same? You look for mistakes. Kevin's Caprice bumper had too small corners, unlike TraumaPak's. Jaytee posted a picture of a bumper with exactly the same wrong corners. Same with EVI's Interceptor rims, which are more rounded than the original one. You simply notice the difference, if you know what you're looking for.

I don't know any member that left this site because he was wrongly accused.

They could have reported pictures, but they knew nothing changed. It's one of the arguments I keep repeating.

 

On the other hand, Cj24, you fail to realize that we can't put all of our focus on modders and their previews/ uploads. We have to monitor reports, the general forum, approve downloads, handle Multiple Account Reports (most of which don't even get handled because there's so many), and we still have 3,000+ topics to move from the forum reorganization archive. We have to divide our time equally for everything on our plate. We are a relatively small staff team for our site, especially with the absence of Break, who will hopefully return soon, and another staff member, who will never be coming back after seeing this.

I don't need to realize this anymore, I realized this a long ago already. The problem is, you don't get any new staff members. The idea of taking modders into your time was brought up by both modders and staff members, yet all tries to do that failed quite some time ago already. Another example of suggestions not changing anything.

 

Those PM's posted in here are completely disrespectful and sickening, and I would understand why any volunteer staff member would want to leave this site after reading something like that. Telling someone to commit suicide is unnecessary and extreme. We have lives, and we have personal issues to deal with, especially me. We all do our best to come on here in our free time to run the site.

We have asked all of you for suggestions in improving this site, but unfortunately, the only thing posted was a "LOL DIDNT READ" meme. We gave you your chance, and you blew it. Now we, unfortunately, are taking this into our own hands.

Why don't need to argue about whether that was wrong. I'm just saying that it was provoked in their eyes.

I've written it many times before, you get the feelings ideas are turned down anyways. Do you actually expect people are going to tell you something is wrong with theft and comments in the gallery? You obviously noticed that before.

 

It's difficult to take the complaints serious if people don't give suggestions because they believe we won't listen. Those that "complain" seems to only want to make us look bad or prove a point, there's little will from them to actually follow up on it when we try and do something, the clearest example was the post Iconography linked to a couple of pages ago, I asked for input in late October where issues like theft, questions or concerns about all rules could have been brought up, either in that public thread or in a PM.

I'm also noticing in this thread that the responses seem to change focus once we bring up something concrete, I tried explain the suggested rule so it was clearer what how it was intended, but the focus in the replies changed away from it to addressing a different issue.

I think I don't need to address this again, I think I've mentioned my opinion above.

I'm reading and understand every single post in this thread, there's simply no need to repeat every counter-argument if it has been mentioned before. I've told you why I believe your new rules won't change anything.

 

Why are the accusations covered there, particularly in obstruction?

By now it's more than "just" accusations, it's getting to the point where a small group of users are making a determined effort to interfere with the community the site in general, they don't follow orders given to them by moderators. A vast minority of these users circumvent the sanctions we imposed.

They don't follow orders given by moderators because they're not publicly written down anywhere. They're also not following orders because they feel like being treated unfairly.

I know of a case where a website's owner was sued because we was moving in against actions not covered by their terms of use, so that is definitly a problem. I guess I'm just too spoiled by wide-ranging european and german laws.

People you believe you protect obvious rippers against any form of action, I don't think I need to repeat that again.

 

Nobody has made an effort to contact us before or after the situation escalated, nobody contacted us and asked for clarification about the rules.

Nobody tried to address their concerns to us after they were told that we couldn't' do anything about the gallery issue, anyone involved could have contacted me, Sam or any moderator if they had concerns about the way we dealt the issue, you could have asked exactly how we interpret the rules as it looked like we had different views on them.

Some of you have me, Sam or other staff members on Steam, Skype or other IM clients, we all have PM inboxes, we've made public announcements where we asked for input, I'd think that would at least show at least a little indication from our side about addressing issues and concerns about the site.

Those involved wanted to do the accusations in public, you even touched on that subject. I could argue that we're in public here, that dealing with this in public is what those involved wanted from the beginning.

It's only a problem when accusations fly towards those that engaged in the issues Sam addressed in the first post.

You justify violating the guidelines because we don't' listen, you justify not contacting us because we wouldn't care anyway if you did. Until now, the approach has been to deliberately cause as much problems on here as possible.

I've mentioned it before: We always had the feeling of feedback being ignored. On a large website like this one, you never have the feeling that one single member is on par with the website's administration.

This is exactly the problem. There're large background problems, until they're solved, I don't expect much change.

 

Our suggestions are either shot down or the subject changes to a different thing as soon as we try and actually do something that actually would address at least some parts of the issues talked about.

Nobody has seemed to acknowledge my earlier points where I described the situation in-depth or even paid any attention to our concerns about the issues. Nobody replied or quoted anything from those posts, nobody accepted or acknowledged anything we've said. It's either rendered useless or the subject is changed.

You want suggestions, don't you? I don't agree with your opinion and I tell you why. I don't believe many members are actually following this whole discussion indepth.

 

We don't expect every member to take everyone else into consideration. That's what the Community Team is here for. We expect people to understand that and agree to at the very least attempt to understand that and understand that it will affect how we address issues.

We cannot get anywhere until there's some common understanding and agreement that everything here could have been handled differently. But I'm getting more and more concerned that some of those that are involved aren't here to actually address the issues they claim to address.

You want common understandling for acting differently, yet you don't seem to act differently either. This is what I'm talking about, nothing is changing. You already posted the draft of the new rules concerning mods, you've even written nothing has changed.

 

Sam, me, and everyone on CT, management and development team is here because we DO want LCPDFR to be a good place, we care about LCPDFR and we want to make it as good as it can be. We didn't ban anyone right away or apply "harsh sanctions" because it would only deteriorate the situation more, we've only taken action and issues suspensions when literally everything else we did to address it were ignored.

I actually believe recieving a warning point is already a punishment, since it's something that you won't lose anymore, unlike an instruction.

 

Before we get anywhere we need to agree on a few things. That from now on we'll all focus on addressing the issues instead of arguing over the past We need to agree that the solutions we find will actually be something that works, as opposed to empty gestures.

Most of all, we need to agree that the rules MUST be followed, that instructions given by moderators MUST be followed, regardless of you agree with it. It doesn't' mean that we can't talk about the rules, at least so we can take care of any misunderstandings or possibly get input that will help us see a issue in a different way.

We can't change everything overnight, we can do some changes relatively soon, but some things may have to wait, we can find a temporary solution that will be in effect until a permanent solution can be put in place.

I do agree. Would you like me to repeat my suggestion concerning how to moderate the gallery? I don't think anyone else has posted another proposal.

We also need to agree though that you need to change your rules. On such a large website, you need to replace these general guidelines with more specific rules and terms of use that aren't legally vulnerable.

If you write everything down, you can refer to the paragraph forbidding public accusations in any form. You also need to write that you cannot support theft in any way and that you will start investigating in case of a violation against that.

It's already a good thing you're reorganising your forums, the old new structure caused exactly the issues I believed it would, but I'm being honest now: I don't remember telling staff about that, I completely left modding and the community in that time though.

I think we're getting pretty close to a solution! Also, since modders know eachother's work pretty well, getting one or more modders (Cj perhaps?) into the community team isn't such a bad idea. That way they can check mods for ripped parts and stuff, while the rest of the CT focuses on the other things going on.

An order by a moderator is an order just as a cop will arrest you if you do something he told you not to do regardless of the legality and you have no right to resist that arrest or object to the arrest at the time, you'll have to file a complaint after the arrest.

 

Applying that on here. You have to follow orders by moderators even if you believe that they aren't written down anywhere or if you disagree with it. You're not exempt from this just because you disagree with the rules. You can however contact us about  it if you believe it's wrong.

 

We can compare GMC with LCPDFR in the way a normal petrol engined car works as opposed to how a electric powered car works and how a hybrid car works.

 

LCPDFR used to be a "petrol engine", our main focus was LCPDFR as a modification with a few peripheral activities.

 

Your website was a "electric engine", it was focused on car modding, it was a platform for car modders to share their work with users and other modders. GMC weren't the same size as LCPDFR, it didn't have the same activity, fewer mods were submitted, fewer gallery images were submitted and fewer posts were made.

Those factors mean that you could focus a lot more on certain issues and implementing features, changes and other infrastructure that addressed those issues without being cornered about other issues.

 

 

 

LCPDFR right now now is a "hybrid powered car", we still have the old Petrol engine, LCPDFR as a modification is still a thing. You could also argue that with 110k members, we "sell more cars" which means that we need to ensure that the car takes everyone's desires into consideration. You have to do that if you're building a Ford Focus, but you don't have to do that if you build a Pagani or another limited build car because there's fewer "buyers" to consider.

But we also have the electric engine, being a more general modding oriented part of the community.

 

We can't engineer "our car" in the same way you would engineer a electric car or a conventional combustion engine car. We can replace the fuel tank with one that can hold 2 litres and put in batteries so the electric engine can run for longer, but the petrol engine can't run for much. We want both engines to run to their fullest potential at the same time.

 

 

That's our problem, LCPDFR.com isn't focused on any specific part of IV modding, it's several different components in the same place, people don't come here "just" for LCPDFR or "just" for car/script/sound mods. They come here for both.

 

We have to find a balance, we have to walk the tight-rope between addressing issues that affects one part of the community without alienating, restricting or otherwise affecting another part of the community negatively.

We can't do that right right now, we can't find a solution when one side is firmly arguing that the only way to deal with the issue is their way and that they won't accept any other way and that they will do whatever they want to do regardless of the outcome.

 

We are willing to work on the issue, we are willing to find reasonable solutions, but we're told that the only way to fix the issue is to do things in a certain way, otherwise it wont work and everything will be "back to normal".

 

 

EDIT: Just read the final section about our rules. Yes, the rules are too vague. The new ones will be much clearer, we'll try and make them even clearer if there's still some confusion.

I expect to have the final draft cleared by the rest of the staff later today. I'll post it out here tonight or tomorrow before they are implemented so we can clear any confusion, misunderstandings and concerns before they are put in place.

Well I'm certainly glad to see that some progress is being made.  I'd like to wrap this up fairly soon and I'll make a point of posting the final reply to this topic with a list of actions we're going to take moving forward from this.  We'll then go about making these changes, starting with our Community Guidelines.

 

After this, I have several big ideas for improvements to the website and community as a whole, which I'll say more about in due course.

Many people posting in this thread have no knowledge of anything that happend before this thread all.

 

About that... Well, I'd like to back Cj up on this. I just laughed so hard when I was reading the posts of some people who wanted to steal the show by pretending to be the good guys saying," Who cares! Its a damn game". Yeah, just like if I were to claim all of your mobile and immobile property illegally and say," Who cares! Life is for living. Just thank God for it and enjoy it. Doesn't matter if you do so on a rock." LOL