Still waiting...

infidelplz · March 12, 2019

2 minutes ago, itsEMT said:

Have you ever taken a moment to stop and think that maybe people wouldn't rip if shit wasn't sold for hundreds of dollars? What happened to making and releasing models because people like to?

Hundreds of dollars?

itsEMT · March 12, 2019

Just now, MelmanDesigns said:

I feel like you buy stuff for fivem? Maybe buying XBRs Vehicles? He puts insane amounts of work into those. Its not easy to do the shit he does.

You're dead wrong if you think I'd spend money on cars for a game. I don't play FiveM, I hardly even play GTA at all anymore.

Jedahdiah · March 12, 2019

Just now, infidelplz said:

Hundreds of dollars?

I'd have to pay to have shit sold

MelmanDesigns · March 12, 2019

Just now, itsEMT said:

You're dead wrong if you think I'd spend money on cars for a game. I don't play FiveM, I hardly even play GTA at all anymore.

So what are you spending Hundreds on dollars of money on?

xPredatorz · March 12, 2019

2 minutes ago, itsEMT said:

Have you ever taken a moment to stop and think that maybe people wouldn't rip if shit wasn't sold for hundreds of dollars? What happened to making and releasing models because people like to?

The problem with this mentality is the people in question are no longer only going after paid models. They are starting to download stuff we released locked for free and unlocking them because they deserve access to the models we paid for.

firemanjay · March 12, 2019

Ight y'all have fun dealing with this bullshit; I'm gonna go watch netflix and listen to county on my pager

Keep lying @Sam maybe one day you and your staff team will actually succeed at trying to bully people away from the "truth" you spew.

Fuck you guys. Ban me.

Sam · March 12, 2019

1 minute ago, firemanjay said:

Also @Sam just to be clear - I did not say he was necessarily STILL Banned -> I just said he [was] banned at the time -> for theft. So I just want to clear that up in case the confusion may be an expired ban since I really dont know if you guys unbanned him/he appealed/whatever the case may be.

I already checked as soon as you brought this up because it was something I had never heard before. Two other staff members confirmed to me that what you described did not happen, and I checked myself through the moderation history. I'll say this one more time - he was not banned.

itsEMT · March 12, 2019

Just now, MelmanDesigns said:

So what are you spending Hundreds on dollars of money on?

Nothing for a video game

Just now, xPredatorz said:

The problem with this mentality is the people in question are no longer only going after paid models. They are starting to download stuff we released locked for free and unlocking them because they deserve access to the models we paid for.

I don't understand why you're paying for anything to make a model. I've never touched modelling and never will, so obviously I don't understand how that works and I'm more than willing to admit that.

~~Deactivated Member~~ · March 12, 2019

show proof

xPredatorz · March 12, 2019

1 minute ago, itsEMT said:

Nothing for a video game

I don't understand why you're paying for anything to make a model. I've never touched modelling and never will, so obviously I don't understand how that works and I'm more than willing to admit that.

The cool real looking models you see in GTA5 have to come from somewhere. Either you have people who rip work from another game or your paying someone to take something like a CAD drawing and creating the 3d Model for you to use. This first part can run anywhere from $100-500 on average. Once you have said model it generally needs to be converted to actually work in GTA 5. It also generally needs to be poly crunched so the game engine doesnt die when they spawn in. Then you need to template/put on lights/touch up the models. After all this work is done to the tune of sometimes hundreds of man hours worth of work you get something that looks like this. So yes even though the end product was released in a locked state for everyone to enjoy someone actively stealing it so they can do whatever they want with it is not ideal as its your blood/sweat/tears.

itsEMT · March 12, 2019

7 minutes ago, xPredatorz said:

The cool real looking models you see in GTA5 have to come from somewhere. Either you have people who rip work from another game or your paying someone to take something like a CAD drawing and creating the 3d Model for you to use. This first part can run anywhere from $100-500 on average. Once you have said model it generally needs to be converted to actually work in GTA 5. It also generally needs to be poly crunched so the game engine doesnt die when they spawn in. Then you need to template/put on lights/touch up the models. After all this work is done to the tune of sometimes hundreds of man hours worth of work you get something that looks like this. So yes even though the end product was released in a locked state for everyone to enjoy someone actively stealing it so they can do whatever they want with it is not ideal as its your blood/sweat/tears.

I see. I'm sure you're well aware that ripping will never stop and cannot be stopped, so why lock models in the first place? Why not give the resources used to the public for use on other models? I understand that you put your own money into it, but that won't stop anyone. I'm a developer and I can't recall ever trying to stop someone from accessing source code to something I've made. Maybe it's just the way I think and my belief that sharing is caring, but it seems to do more harm than good when you lock something because then shit like this happens.

Twurtleee · March 12, 2019

Well, since we have an international shit show going on. I might as well put my two cents in. I myself, have not once released any actual models to the site because of things like this. The ripping, stealing, etc. Now, we can all of course point fingers and narrow it down to who did what, who said what, etc. I do feel like the moderators can do something if you legitimately care enough. But choose to stay out of it so you don't picked on by the people continuing to rip, steal, etc. The solution that comes to my mind first is of course to ban the people doing what they're doing. you obviously know who, and if you don't by now you must be Patrick Star. There is a huge disruption among the whole community, people are beyond pissed, banning the people causing everything is the logical choice here, it settles everything, you can ip ban them, whatever it may be.

What my post is all boiling down to is this. The ones leaving the lcpdfr site, will not be coming back. Trust me when I say that, they won't. I myself included, although all I release here is dev parts, I still don't want some little a*hole that is in with all the other little children using my stuff as well as the 30 something year old adults that act like little children and cry over everything, and make podcasts on YouTube for the whole 10 people audience and get laughed at by the other 40+ viewers... oops, went to far. But anyway, no one is coming back unless something is done plain and simple. Myself and numerous others preparing to leave as well.

Fix your shit lcpdfr

B. McDonald · March 12, 2019

Im just here to watch all these developers try to tell a STAFF MEMBER or MODERATOR how to do their jobs. To all the staff in this post, as you probably know, you will never be able to explain any of this to the dense, close-minded people within this thread.... no matter how much you dumb it down.. They will never understand the fact that you have no control over anything outside of your site. They must think you have legal right to everything on the internet... I enjoy watching all these people threaten you guys with "leaving LSPDFR", these snowflakes, are far outnumbered by the CIVIL modelers and the modelers who actually do this because they enjoy it. now, dont get me wrong, a world with no modelers for GTA V, would suck. But that would never happen. there will always be modelers mature enough to continue doing what they do. Now, to the modelers out there. i understand your frustrations, I really do. I have a couple buddies who model and have had stuff taken from them. But you know something? They dont constantly harass LSPDFR staff about it. You know why? Because there nothing they can do. they can not force "legal action" or ANYTHING along those lines outside of their site. That is the job of the modeler to do. Hide certain things within your models to prove its yours. Then, when you see it posted on another site, dont contact LSPDFR staff about it, contact the staff of that site it was posted on and show proof its yours and get it taken down. Nobody in this world can control the actions of anyone. You put it on the site, knowing theres a chance of this happening. Dont cry to LSPDFR staff when it actually does happen.

As to the "block people" or "require an account" comments. That wont stop anyone... Anybody can use a VPN or anything along those lines and create another account and get through the ban. Anyone can create fake accounts just so they can download stuff. If you are going to release anything, understand the risks involved. Dont cry to someone about it....

Edited March 12, 2019 by B. McDonald

~~Deactivated Member~~ · March 12, 2019

1 minute ago, B. McDonald said:

Im just here to watch all these developers (or snowflakes, so it seems) try ti tell a STAFF MEMBER or MODERATOR how to do their jobs. To all the staff in this post, as you probably know, you will never be able to explain any of this to the dense, close-minded people within this thread.... no matter how much you dumb it down.. They will never understand the fact that you have no control over anything outside of your site. They must think you have legal right to everything on the internet... I enjoy watching all these people threaten you guys with "leaving LSPDFR", these snowflakes, are far outnumbered by the CIVIL modelers and the modelers who actually do this because they enjoy it. now, dont get me wrong, a world with no modelers for GTA V, would suck. But that would never happen. there will always be modelers mature enough to continue doing what they do. Now, to the modelers out there. i understand your frustrations, I really do. I have a couple buddies who model and have had stuff taken from them. But you know something? They dont constantly harass LSPDFR staff about it. You know why? Because there nothing they can do. they can not force "legal action" or ANYTHING along those lines outside of their site. That is the job of the modeler to do. Hide certain things within your models to prove its yours. Then, when you see it posted on another site, dont contact LSPDFR staff about it, contact the staff of that site it was posted on and show proof its yours and get it taken down. Nobody in this world can control the actions of anyone. You put it on the site, knowing theres a chance of this happening. Dont cry to LSPDFR staff when it actually does happen.

Your not serious are you. How could you call the people who cause this site/mod to grow snowflakes. I dont think people like you understand what it feels like to have something of yours ripped or stolen after putting in hours of your time and sometimes days, hell I've seen real good and I mean REAL GOOD modelers put even months into their mods. And for the people like you who clearly dont care enough about them to even vouch for some extra security on the site for their models is pretty outrageous. As mentioned previous before, this site would be nothing without those who showed real dedication to making the vehicles we have now. Come on, have some common sense. Real money goes into this, how would you like it if you just bought a brand new car, did some upgrades to it and then someone steals it while you are asleep and rips things like the turbo or maybe some real nice seats you put into it and then returns it back to your home. Thats how it can feel sometimes when the stuff you spent money on gets stolen and ripped right from you.

medic4523 · March 12, 2019

@Sam @Cyan

Thank you for taking the time to join us this afternoon. My intentions were not to create a spectacle, but your team crossed a line. When your "customers" have an important message to share, it seems best to at least hear the concern and have a constructive conversation. That's the attitude I came into today with, but the name calling and general apathetic, poor demeanor certainly escalated things. I understand you are addressing that issue; thank you.

You can understand why people would be upset. You can understand why content creators would want some form of protection. I understand you are not the internet police, and some actions taken regardless may have little to no impact on the end result. However, the "we can't do anything" and "we won't do anything" hurt... because it was perceived as not even caring enough to try. That's all most of us wanted; some sort of effort. A message denouncing behavior. Something. Anything to show you were willing to try to help us out. But we couldn't even seem to get someone to listen, until everything burned out of control today. Why did it have to come to that point?

You guys made a great point today that will help a lot of developers decide what is best for them going forward: LSPDFR is a public website, and anyone can download anything they want, without restriction, and your decision is to remain that way. And like Turtle said, because of that, the people that have left or will be leaving, won't be coming back.

If either of you would like to continue a conversation in DMs, you know where to find me.

motive007 · March 12, 2019

2 hours ago, firemanjay said:

The downfall of a once great generation of modding and general quality output by a community - crumbling from a genuine lack of morals. Ironic.

still waiting for you too leave the community lmao

officerpudding78 · March 12, 2019

11 minutes ago, medic4523 said:

@Sam @Cyan

Thank you for taking the time to join us this afternoon. My intentions were not to create a spectacle, but your team crossed a line. When your "customers" have an important message to share, it seems best to at least hear the concern and have a constructive conversation. That's the attitude I came into today with, but the name calling and general apathetic, poor demeanor certainly escalated things. I understand you are addressing that issue; thank you.

You can understand why people would be upset. You can understand why content creators would want some form of protection. I understand you are not the internet police, and some actions taken regardless may have little to no impact on the end result. However, the "we can't do anything" and "we won't do anything" hurt... because it was perceived as not even caring enough to try. That's all most of us wanted; some sort of effort. A message denouncing behavior. Something. Anything to show you were willing to try to help us out. But we couldn't even seem to get someone to listen, until everything burned out of control today. Why did it have to come to that point?

You guys made a great point today that will help a lot of developers decide what is best for them going forward: LSPDFR is a public website, and anyone can download anything they want, without restriction, and your decision is to remain that way. And like Turtle said, because of that, the people that have left or will be leaving, won't be coming back.

If either of you would like to continue a conversation in DMs, you know where to find me.

I definitely say this couldn't have been said any better. People work hard to build this community. You guys work hard in keeping this community sane. However, it's significantly different when developers feel like they aren't supported.

There is this notion that moderators can't have much control of what occurs outside of LCPDFR.com, but hypothetically speaking: would moderation be any different if lspdfr and lcpdfr was either sold or uploaded at an external source?

The prominent issue that rises stands in equality. There is also an issue with unnecessary word choices used in the response of a community moderator.

I think that before any lashings are made, there must be some form of reality check. This community has went through many talented creators.

Edited March 12, 2019 by officerpudding78

B. McDonald · March 12, 2019

16 minutes ago, SavvvBosss said:

Your not serious are you. How could you call the people who cause this site/mod to grow snowflakes. I dont think people like you understand what it feels like to have something of yours ripped or stolen after putting in hours of your time and sometimes days, hell I've seen real good and I mean REAL GOOD modelers put even months into their mods. And for the people like you who clearly dont care enough about them to even vouch for some extra security on the site for their models is pretty outrageous. As mentioned previous before, this site would be nothing without those who showed real dedication to making the vehicles we have now. Come on, have some common sense. Real money goes into this, how would you like it if you just bought a brand new car, did some upgrades to it and then someone steals it while you are asleep and rips things like the turbo or maybe some real nice seats you put into it and then returns it back to your home. Thats how it can feel sometimes when the stuff you spent money on gets stolen and ripped right from you.

I am indeed serious. And its not that I don't care enough. As hard as it may be for you to believe, I do actually care. As I said, i have friends who doe vehicle modeling. I myself do ELS modeling. However, i know this is a risk, which is why I don't release. I only make them for good friends. Also, im not against "better security" for this website. I just don't know how you would be able to do it. Theres literally no way to prevent this. I wont lie, i do agree that you should HAVE to make an account to download anything. Will it help with this problem? Ehhh maybe, but probably not. Now, when it comes to proof, here's the problem with screenshots and stuff (I know someone posted one up above, but don't recall who). Those can easily be staged to "get back" at someone for something. I can make a new discord account, with your exact name and go around saying "I just ripped your model and im going to send it out". Someone sees that and reports it to staff on LSPDFR. You get banned because an account on discord matching YOUR name said they were doing it. How would you feel? How would you like that to happen. And you know what, maybe snowflakes isnt the proper term to use, youre right. Ill be civil and wont do any name calling, as that would ruin an argument (I will actually edit my post and take it out). As to your comment of " this site would be nothing without those who showed real dedication to making the vehicles we have now", you are completely correct! Without modelers or even modders in general taking time out of their day to make stuff to enhance this game, this game would be really boring. My point is this, I understand your frustrations, but dont go crying (not saying YOU specifically are) to staff on a PUBLIC website about something they cant control and something that didn't even happen on their website. Im sure there's more bans then you think because of stuff like this. We just don't know because we aren't staff. I would agree with "better security", but don't know how you would go about that...

Edited March 12, 2019 by B. McDonald

officerpudding78 · March 12, 2019

7 minutes ago, B. McDonald said:

I am indeed serious. And its not that I don't care enough. As hard as it may be for you to believe, I do actually care. As I said, i have friends who doe vehicle modeling. I myself do ELS modeling. However, i know this is a risk, which is why I don't release. I only make them for good friends. Also, im not against "better security" for this website. I just don't know how you would be able to do it. Theres literally no way to prevent this. I wont lie, i do agree that you should HAVE to make an account to download anything. Will it help with this problem? Ehhh maybe, but probably not. Now, when it comes to proof, here's the problem with screenshots and stuff (I know someone posted one up above, but don't recall who). Those can easily be staged to "get back" at someone for something. I can make a new discord account, with your exact name and go around saying "I just ripped your model and im going to send it out". Someone sees that and reports it to staff on LSPDFR. You get banned because an account on discord matching YOUR name said they were doing it. How would you feel? How would you like that to happen. And you know what, maybe snowflakes isnt the proper term to use, youre right. Ill be civil and wont do any name calling, as that would ruin an argument (I will actually edit my post and take it out). As to your comment of " this site would be nothing without those who showed real dedication to making the vehicles we have now", you are completely correct! Without modelers or even modders in general taking time out of their day to make stuff to enhance this game, this game would be really boring. My point is this, I understand your frustrations, but dont go crying (not saying YOU specifically are) to staff on a PUBLIC website about something they cant control and something that didn't even happen on their website. Im sure there's more bans then you think because of stuff like this. We just don't know because we aren't staff. I would agree with "better security", but don't know how you would go about that...

You do els dev? I've never heard of you before lol

Sniper296 · March 12, 2019

I didn't read all this topic, because I don't like flushing my time down the toilet. But I just have to comment on the expectations of users that this site should pursue your content on other sites, on other servers, in other jurisdictions.

Here is a bullet point of GitHub's DMCA procedure:

Quote

Also include the following statement: "I swear, under penalty of perjury, that the information in this notification is accurate and that I am the copyright owner, or am authorized to act on behalf of the owner, of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed."

If your content is stolen, you, your lawyer or some other designated person is responsible for making a DMCA claim against the site or hosting provider hosting it. Not me, not Sam Houser, not your great aunt's dog. YOU!

Just as I have filed DMCA requests for my mods. I didn't demand someone else who's hosting my mods do it for me.

Just as has probably been done when LCPDFR or LSPDFR are hosted elsewhere without permission or decompiled.

It's unlikely that most vehicle mods even are valid copyright claims anyway. Surely EA, Ubi or whoever should be making that claim against a vehicle taken from their game. Or Ford, Dodge or whatever company owns them trademarks. Or the emergency department or company who's logos are being used.

And if locking mods is no longer effective, maybe complain to Oleg that your overpriced ZMod subscription doesn't feel worth it any more. But I'm sure he'll tell you that it is impossible for any file to be protected against reverse engineering, decryption, ripping, decompiling, etc. without preventing users from obtaining that file in the first place.