What about branding each parts with your name before putting it in the vehicle ? Something like a barcode or whatever that indicates it was your work. 

That's an excellent idea. Almost a watermark but for a 3d model.

You could put it underneath somewhere and in my opinion that would probably cut down on the stealing, while keeping a pleasant appearance.

If you have the models in Zmodeler, those can be easily removed.

 

If you have the models in Zmodeler, those can be easily removed.

not if you hide them well enough or you put more than one on to confuse them. It's still a viable solution: much better than not releasing vehicles.

not if you hide them well enough or you put more than one on to confuse them. It's still a viable solution: much better than not releasing vehicles.

While it may be better than not releasing vehicles, it's still not a 100% chance that modder's stuff will be kept secure. I don't think any modders will accept less than 100%.

While it may be better than not releasing vehicles, it's still not a 100% chance that modder's stuff will be kept secure. I don't think any modders will accept less than 100%.

I don't think anyone will find a way to make it 100% safe.

My 2 cents on the topic is this --

If you don't want people to use your model, and tweak your model slightly, then don't post it on the INTERNET :| 

Keep it on your PC, and your PC only...

I know it seems a tad harsh and insensitive, but really.. come on... You're sharing something with the whole world and then telling people "oh, but you can't touch it at all.." and also, let's face it, if someone is editing the original model that you posted, and then re-uploading THEIR edited version of it, then it would be unfair to say that you made the whole thing..

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by nikkolaus

I agree 100% I have never understood the mindset of modders showing off their work when they never intend to share it. I find it quite frustrating to see how the end of the GTA IV era was handled in this department. If you don't want to share with the community and build relationships with each other then what is the point? We are all here because we all love the same thing. I have zero tolerance with people that must accrue all the credit constantly, don't get me wrong I appreciate the hard work of modders (being a consumer) and I voice that on videos I create when I do use them. The ego trip that can come from making virtual cars has been so outrageous in the past that I stopped using their mods and focused on the more humble bunch. Ah well my 0.02

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by JFavignano

While it may be better than not releasing vehicles, it's still not a 100% chance that modder's stuff will be kept secure. I don't think any modders will accept less than 100%.

It's a surprise people were releasing for SA and IV then, because models were never completely secure. You were always expecting people to respect your work, and if they don't, you were expecting a website's staff to react.
 

and also, let's face it, if someone is editing the original model that you posted, and then re-uploading THEIR edited version of it, then it would be unfair to say that you made the whole thing..

I'm wondering why you believe that people have that attitude. I've never seen anything like that. People want correct credits, not credits that praise them to the sun. They're supposed to list all contributions properly.

 

If you don't want people to use your model, and tweak your model slightly, then don't post it on the INTERNET :| 
[...]
I know it seems a tad harsh and insensitive, but really.. come on... You're sharing something with the whole world and then telling people "oh, but you can't touch it at all.."

A bit of a misconception of the internet. Just because you can download movies and music for free, it's not because you're allowed to. Everything has license agreements, no matter whether it's software, games, music, movies, models, videos, pictures or fonts. Many people simply choose to ignore them.
 

People are always restricting limit to their work. In some games modding is allowed and encouraged, in some it's tolerated, in some it's completely forbidden. Do you expect modders to be different people? Some let you edit their mods, some don't. Just because all models are unlocked, that's not going to change.
People here need to stop believing it's egoistic to release a locked mod. People share a mod, they give it to you for free to use it in your game. It's egoistic to keep expecting more.

In fact, handling permissions without being able to lock models is going to be much more complicated. When you used third party models for your vehicle in IV you were allowed to use, but not to redistribute, you simply locked the car. Now you don't just have to credit people for all their parts, but you also need to post whether other people are allowed to edit and redistribute these specific parts, including all conditions or requirements.
At this point, where donations or commercial youtube presentations are accepted by the community, it's pretty obvious people want to limit redistribution to make sure they get the recognition they want and deserve themselves. It's wrong just to remember the "selfish" modders that release locked models, you also need to think about those selfish people who release another's work with slight changes just to get popularity.

Whether or not modders want to release a model in a unlocked versus a locked format is irrelevant to those who have not put effort into said model. You're a consumer that doesn't necessarily mean you get to have say in how the product is distributed. I think it's completely heinous that the community expects let alone demands a modder to release their work in an open format if it's not that modder wish. Why does that make him/her selfish? You still get the end result that being an amazing model in which you had to put no effort into making but simply get to enjoy. 

Edited August 18, 201510 yr by Prophet

Did anyone actually read Oleg's post on Zmodeler's forums?

.yft files can be easily read by OpenIV and a tool that was used months ago to rip models. There is no point in trying to "lock" model, as this can be bypassed in minutes. Sorry on this, but I've made a consideration thatI'll not confuse users about a magic ability to "lock" file, while this is technically impossible.

Isn't "locking" models a total fantasy? I mean, if GTA V can still read it, then clearly the model isn't "locked" - I presume Zmodeler just sets a particular flag in the file that doesn't affect the display of the model ingame, then zmodeler will refuse to edit that model if the particular flag is set in the way that Zmodeler expects. However, as he says in the post, this could be easily bypassed by anybody with the right know how and if any other programs gain the capability to mod GTA V yft files, they'll probably ignore Zmodeler's "lock" feature entirely.

 

Has anybody ever noticed that license that is displayed when you start GTA V? You know, the one that expressly forbids reverse engineering and all that jazz? I mean, the only reason this community exists is because of our blatant violation of Rockstar's license for GTA V (and naturally their willingness to not enforce it on SP modders). Rockstar didn't try to help us mod the game, they did their best to make it difficult to create another ScriptHook, but that got bypassed pretty quickly, and additionally with each update. Oh, and then there's the modders on those "other" sites that publish tutorials in Assembly on how to patch the online check in ScriptHook. Why wouldn't Zmodeler's lock feature be bypassed just as easily?

 

I mean come on, I get it - you guys want to be credited and don't want your work stolen. I get it! I'm a programmer, not a modeler - I can't create anything on the level of many of the creations I've seen from this community. I appreciate what you guys do and enjoy your work greatly, and I want you to be recognized for it! But maybe take another look at Oleg was saying - he doesn't want to provide a "magic" lock facility, and then potentially have users of his (paid) software complaining that the "lock" feature doesn't work. It works as best as it could, but there's no way it could actually provide much more than a rudimentary amount of "security." I don't think he's going against modders in this case, I think he's just taking the opportunity to stop pretending that files can even be "locked" in the first place, and maybe force the community to shift in their values in this regard.

Did anyone actually read Oleg's post on Zmodeler's forums?

Isn't "locking" models a total fantasy? I mean, if GTA V can still read it, then clearly the model isn't "locked" - I presume Zmodeler just sets a particular flag in the file that doesn't affect the display of the model ingame, then zmodeler will refuse to edit that model if the particular flag is set in the way that Zmodeler expects. However, as he says in the post, this could be easily bypassed by anybody with the right know how and if any other programs gain the capability to mod GTA V yft files, they'll probably ignore Zmodeler's "lock" feature entirely.

Absolutely right. But as I said, it won't suddenly turn the community into a better place. People will still restrict the use of their models as much as they did before, it's just much easier to ignore any restrictions now. The current debate isn't any different than other discussions we had in the years before. Some people say modding needs to be completely open source, others don't.

 

Has anybody ever noticed that license that is displayed when you start GTA V? You know, the one that expressly forbids reverse engineering and all that jazz? I mean, the only reason this community exists is because of our blatant violation of Rockstar's license for GTA V (and naturally their willingness to not enforce it on SP modders). Rockstar didn't try to help us mod the game, they did their best to make it difficult to create another ScriptHook, but that got bypassed pretty quickly, and additionally with each update. Oh, and then there's the modders on those "other" sites that publish tutorials in Assembly on how to patch the online check in ScriptHook. Why wouldn't Zmodeler's lock feature be bypassed just as easily?

R* clearly stated they don't mind any form of single player modding. Apart from that, EULAs can be limited by national laws and aren't necessarily obligatory. That's not exactly the point of this discussion, though.
Rockstar's problem is GTA Online. And just because they can't get rid of cheaters in multiplayer, modders should just accept everything either? A game developer is getting money for releasing a game, all a modder gets is feedback, if you're lucky it's positive. If you're unlucky, people will start a discussion if you're egoistical for converting a car to GTA V but not releasing it immediately, although it's simply not complete.
There're bad people everywhere, but just sharing everything won't help. You don't just give away your belongings to make sure nobody's able to steal from you. Why should every modder do that then?

The point for many modders is not whether we're able to lock models or not - it's that people try to force them to release their mods in a certain manner only because they believe it may help the community.

Absolutely right. But as I said, it won't suddenly turn the community into a better place. People will still restrict the use of their models as much as they did before, it's just much easier to ignore any restrictions now. The current debate isn't any different than other discussions we had in the years before. Some people say modding needs to be completely open source, others don't.

 

R* clearly stated they don't mind any form of single player modding. Apart from that, EULAs can be limited by national laws and aren't necessarily obligatory. That's not exactly the point of this discussion, though.Rockstar's problem is GTA Online. And just because they can't get rid of cheaters in multiplayer, modders should just accept everything either? A game developer is getting money for releasing a game, all a modder gets is feedback, if you're lucky it's positive. If you're unlucky, people will start a discussion if you're egoistical for converting a car to GTA V but not releasing it immediately, although it's simply not complete.
There're bad people everywhere, but just sharing everything won't help. You don't just give away your belongings to make sure nobody's able to steal from you. Why should every modder do that then?

The point for many modders is not whether we're able to lock models or not - it's that people try to force them to release their mods in a certain manner only because they believe it may help the community.

my question to you is this, if someone uses something you made and gives you credit for it then why can't they release the model? I just don't get the whole credit thing to begin with, I have many mods for flight simulation as well as ETS2 and never once did I say make sure you credit me. I said enjoy! That is the whole point of modding is it not?

The fact of the matter is, there needs to be a fundamental shift in the way vehicle producers think.

When you create/convert a vehicle (which, again, if you take from another game, does not belong to you to begin with), you do one of two things.

• Develop it for yourself, or your friends.
  • If you go this route, don't let anyone else find out that the vehicle exists. That is how these pissing matches start.
  • If no one knows it exists, there is no problem.
     
• Or, you release it to the public. And you can either allow or deny permission for others to modify it.
  • But don't get mad when someone uses it without permission. If it is in the public domain, it is fair game, really.
  • Its out in the public, and either people credit you, or they don't. If they don't, you can report them, but that is it.

And that is how we do it. If we don't create unfavourable circumstances, the problems will cease to exist.

The fact of the matter is, there needs to be a fundamental shift in the way vehicle producers think.

When you create/convert a vehicle (which, again, if you take from another game, does not belong to you to begin with), you do one of two things.

• Develop it for yourself, or your friends.
  • If you go this route, don't let anyone else find out that the vehicle exists. That is how these pissing matches start.
  • If no one knows it exists, there is no problem.
     
• Or, you release it to the public. And you can either allow or deny permission for others to modify it.
  • But don't get mad when someone uses it without permission. If it is in the public domain, it is fair game, really.
  • Its out in the public, and either people credit you, or they don't. If they don't, you can report them, but that is it.

And that is how we do it. If we don't create unfavourable circumstances, the problems will cease to exist.

exactly, I just don't want to see gallery shots of something no one can have and I have already stated I will not support mods that think this way.

The point for many modders is not whether we're able to lock models or not - it's that people try to force them to release their mods in a certain manner only because they believe it may help the community.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything right now.

Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything right now.

I did write try to force. It started especially after Iconography's (now removed) status, who wrote LCPDFR.com will never accept locked models for V. Even though that status is gone, many people are acting like modders who lock their models are the devils within the community. Just look at the comments of Bugs' three latest pictures.

my question to you is this, if someone uses something you made and gives you credit for it then why can't they release the model? I just don't get the whole credit thing to begin with, I have many mods for flight simulation as well as ETS2 and never once did I say make sure you credit me. I said enjoy! That is the whole point of modding is it not?

I'm afraid I'm the wrong person to ask this because I don't require people to ask me for permission. Most of the cars I've converted or the parts I've created have been released unlocked. Either I, or somebody else released it. There're so many unlocked models available right now, I really don't even understand why people are complaining. It's not like it was four or five years ago, when the only unlocked car was a Charger. Yet, back then, nobody complained.
It's simply not possible to release everything unlocked. As soon as you use any part from Bxbugs, you have to release it locked. As soon as you use a private model somebody sent you, you have to release it locked.

I think credits are the least that's expected anywhere. I really don't know any other game where it's not absolutely normal to credit other people. In most games however, you simply don't use models created or converted by ten different people.

exactly, I just don't want to see gallery shots of something no one can have and I have already stated I will not support mods that think this way.

I agree with that. It's hard to know if a model is ever going to be released, though. You could run into problems (for example good old RC20) or simply lose interest. Just because there're screenshots of a mod, it doesn't have to be finished.

Edited August 21, 201510 yr by Cj24

Thanks for the response CJ, glad we can be on the same page about some things. I understand people are making models and they go through alpha and beta stages but I was more referring to the peacocking as someone here on the forums said lol. I have respected you and your work since the GTA IV days and all you did for us at Code Zero.

In my opinion just let people edit the models, but make sure they give credit. You deserve credit, but at the same time if I didn't get credit I wouldn't care I'd just put in the comments hey I made that. And with the screenshots of mods that aren't going to be released I think to myself "This is a great model! When will it get posted? Oh it won't... crap." I hate to know what I'm mising.

In my opinion just let people edit the models, but make sure they give credit. You deserve credit, but at the same time if I didn't get credit I wouldn't care I'd just put in the comments hey I made that. And with the screenshots of mods that aren't going to be released I think to myself "This is a great model! When will it get posted? Oh it won't... crap." I hate to know what I'm mising.

EXACTLY THIS, let's bring the community back to what it really is all about.

EXACTLY THIS, let's bring the community back to what it really is all about.

Got that right.

In my opinion just let people edit the models, but make sure they give credit. You deserve credit, but at the same time if I didn't get credit I wouldn't care I'd just put in the comments hey I made that.

It often just doesn't work. There're always people who purposely don't give credits. There're always people who upload a model without or only very slight changes just to have their name next to it. It ends up on many different websites, sometimes for many different games. Since there're almost no people who are able to rip models, you're easily able to prevent that by locking them.
If you just comment to correct credits, people are going to complain, you should rather write a private message or report it. Either you take the time to do it properly (which is annoying) or you leave it, and most people are not going to choose the second option. But constantly having to look through different websites to see if somebody missed credits is not really an option either.

I agree, if it all worked it would be great. Most people don't want that to work, though. Sometimes there're people who just want their own name in the credits and ignore everybody else and sometimes there're modders that simply don't want their parts released unlocked. Unless you say everybody totally ignores credits, it's never going to work. And let's be honest, how many modders are going to do that?