I have deeply hated any screenshot post on the gallery showing off a model with a small "not going to be released" below, it's just plain stupid. It's as if a baker was waving a chocolate cake right in front of you and then removed it and said "Nope, you ain't gonna have a crumb of it". This kind of behavior looks a lot like attention-grabbing to get compliments like 'omg ur car iz gud' and stuff. If you don't plan to release something, keep it to yourself, period. I'm glad some modifications have been brought related to that.

And let's be honest anyway. Vehicle modders want their models locked? Even if they managed to lock them somehow, someone will -always- manage to break through. Everything gets ripped. Movies, musics, games, OS. It's the internet, that's how it is. Deal with it or don't and stop using it.

I have deeply hated any screenshot post on the gallery showing off a model with a small "not going to be released" below, it's just plain stupid. It's as if a baker was waving a chocolate cake right in front of you and then removed it and said "Nope, you ain't gonna have a crumb of it". This kind of behavior looks a lot like attention-grabbing to get compliments like 'omg ur car iz gud' and stuff. If you don't plan to release something, keep it to yourself, period. I'm glad some modifications have been brought related to that.

And let's be honest anyway. Vehicle modders want their models locked? Even if they managed to lock them somehow, someone will -always- manage to break through. Everything gets ripped. Movies, musics, games, OS. It's the internet, that's how it is. Deal with it or don't and stop using it.

You are standing from a consumer point of view. I've tried to refrain from posting in this topic, but I feel like nobody really thinks the same way that a modder does. I don't believe you make models in ZModeler, do you?

The thing is, I don't release a lot of stuff but I think it's cool to show my work to the community. Whenever somebody uploads a screenshot, it's not because a consumer of mods is going to get it, it's that somebody who was creating the mod would like feedback or opinions. That's what I do, and I find it awfully greedy that everyone flips out because they aren't going to get it. It's become a consumer society it seems, unfortunately. Screenshots can also show breakthroughs in modding, interesting mods, never before done mods. You'll just have to get used to, that's the way it goes. Personally I like getting feedback from the community as it has helped me become a better modder, which people really don't understand. Seems like this is a consumer site more than ever, just because somebody uploads a screenshot doesn't mean that they're going to get it...

Let the staff adopt whatever stance and set whatever double standards they want, the result will be that modelers will simply move elsewhere. What I will say is that it ought to be the modelers' decision as to whether or not they decide to release their work unlocked, its not to be forced by a majority of people who haven't got the slightest clue in terms of how much time and effort is invested in modeling.

 

Let the staff adopt whatever stance and set whatever double standards they want, the result will be that modelers will simply move elsewhere. What I will say is that it ought to be the modelers' decision as to whether or not they decide to release their work unlocked, its not to be forced by a majority of people who haven't got the slightest clue in terms of how much time and effort is invested in modeling.

 

Cheers on that. Finally someone who has something sensible to say.

Pretty sure most people here are aware of how much time and effort are put and required to model stuff. That's still not the point. By not releasing your models until you find a way to lock them (and still, it'll be TEMPORARY, let's be honest on that), you are going to deprive the community you say to be part of from tools they could enjoy in their game. Even though it's understandable that you want credit for your work, acting that way and being like "Psh, mine, get lost" is purely childish. I didn't model once in my life, but I photoshopped a fair ammount of stuff. I got some of my work stolen sometimes, without credits. Did I go around yelling and say "I'm going to stop releasing stuff publicly because there's some nasty thieves!"? No. I simply left a comment "By the way, I made this, just so you know", and moved on. Yes, it's a bit annoying to see your work used without being credited. Doesn't mean you've to act like the least of brats about it. Sure, the community is relying on you to get models for their games. But without a community waiting for your work and encouraging you, I'm pretty sure modelling would be a lot less enjoyable.

Pretty sure most people here are aware of how much time and effort are put and required to model stuff. That's still not the point.

Yes it is. It's a reason that a lot of modders want the option to lock our files. How would you like to paint a beautiful piece of artwork, and have somebody do a bunch of changes to it? Some of us like to preserve our work and keep it in a state the way it was intended to be.

By not releasing your models until you find a way to lock them (and still, it'll be TEMPORARY, let's be honest on that) 

Locking in ZModeler 2 was permanent. It's external software that people use to extract the 3D model.  

you are going to deprive the community you say to be part of from tools they could enjoy in their game.

As stated before, any member of the community (even you!) can learn how to make your own mods your way. That's one of the contributing factors of why I starting making my own mods.

Even though it's understandable that you want credit for your work, acting that way and being like "Psh, mine, get lost" is purely childish. 

It's not all about credit, you see. Credit is a major factor in the role of modding. How is it childish to want your work locked as I said, in a way to preserve it from the way it was intended? I assume it's childish to lock my doors as well, isn't it.

 I didn't model once in my life 

Not a problem, however it's kind of weird that somebody who doesn't model, make car model mods, or anything of that sort wants us to released our models with no locks. It's simple, we don't want our work edited, and I see a lot of people say that if you don't want it ripped or stolen then don't release it. So most of us take screenshots of it, and yet people start to hate on it as well? That makes no sense.

but I photoshopped a fair ammount of stuff. I got some of my work stolen sometimes, without credits. Did I go around yelling and say "I'm going to stop releasing stuff publicly because there's some nasty thieves!"?

 I say it again, it's not about thieves but also mostly preserving our work. I'm speaking on behalf of most of the community. You do realize that we don't always bitch about thieves, right?

No. I simply left a comment "By the way, I made this, just so you know", and moved on. 

I guess everyone is different in the sense of their work, work ethics and so on. Myself I wouldn't want to see people stealing my stuff. I take pride in my work and want to share it in with the community in a format that can't be edited.

 Yes, it's a bit annoying to see your work used without being credited. Doesn't mean you've to act like the least of brats about it.

Nobody acts like "brats". I still don't understand why it seems like you have this vendetta against people who work with vehicle models who choose them to be in a locked format.

 Sure, the community is relying on you to get models for their games. But without a community waiting for your work and encouraging you, I'm pretty sure modelling would be a lot less enjoyable.

I like getting feedback from other who see my mods in the community, it seems like all of the people who are pushing for people to release their stuff is impatient. Take a break from the community, come back and maybe people have found a way to resolve something with a way to release their files. Nobody will be pushed around by a consumer of modifications just because the consumer wants it. For now, you'll have to be patient for it, not hard. 

Turning my post in a whole quote war just proves my point about the whole childish attitude. I'm not on a vendetta, I just want, like many people, to make the modding community open to everyone, and not closed to the few modelling like some kind of elite stuck on their pedestal.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Hystery

Turning my post in a whole quote war just proves my point about the whole childish attitude. I'm not on a vendetta, I just want, like many people, to make the modding community open to everyone, and not closed to the few modelling like some kind of elite stuck on their pedestal.

I am trying to convey my points to you, not trying to be childish but show you my reasoning of belief of a locking system. Unfortunately, by making a modding community open it can cause problems mentioned by others. I've tried to stay mature the whole post and I really don't think accusing me of being childish will get your point very far. When I was quoting you, it was just an easier way to point out what I was replying to. Using childish as a last resort isn't the best idea, either.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by TGM

Turning my post in a whole quote war just proves my point about the whole childish attitude. I'm not on a vendetta, I just want, like many people, to make the modding community open to everyone, and not closed to the few modelling like some kind of elite stuck on their pedestal.

Quote war you say? Im pretty sure he was making it easier for people to read, rather then them reading one part of his post and going to yours to see what his reply was for. I dont see anyone being childish but yourself for what you said. Anyway, as a consumer, let modders release their mods how they wanna release it. Is it really gonna kill someone for a modder to release a vehicle locked? Get over it or make it yourself. Simple. Anyway, yall have a good day!

Turning my post in a whole quote war just proves my point about the whole childish attitude.

Yes, its obviously very childish to quote and address someone...

I'm not on a vendetta, I just want, like many people, to make the modding community open to everyone, and not closed to the few modelling like some kind of elite stuck on their pedestal.

Yes, you want. You want, you want, and you want. The community is very open to those wanting to learn, indeed, but not to those trying to force and demand from a minority.

Putting a quote every one single line doesn't make anything easier to read, if anything it makes a post that takes 50% of the total thread page, completely messed up and difficult to follow. When you want to address someone's points, you quote them and answer as a whole with your argumentation, you don't try to take every single sentence (which, in some cases, can be extracted out of their context and thus lose their meaning) just to be smart. That's what I'm calling childish. You're free to disagree, not gonna change my mind.

All in all, if the community annoys you that much, then don't release stuff anymore. Pretty sure we won't be the only one losing something in the process.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Hystery

By not releasing your models until you find a way to lock them (and still, it'll be TEMPORARY, let's be honest on that), you are going to deprive the community you say to be part of from tools they could enjoy in their game.

You really believe nobody is releasing because everybody wants locked mods? The export filter for V was just released, everybody is still trying to figure it all out. It's a new game, a new programm and there're new issues. Many different people from many different communities are trying to convert cars currently. I never got so many messages from people asking if they can convert something like I did in the last few days.

 

All in all, if the community annoys you that much, then don't release stuff anymore. Pretty sure we won't be the only one losing something in the process.

You complain about people not releasing yet you say people shouldn't release anymore? Apart from that, I'm not really sure what you could gain from releasing, or what you can lose by deciding not to release something.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Cj24

You really believe nobody is releasing because everybody wants locked mods? The export filter for V was just released, everybody is still trying to figure it all out. It's a new game, a new programm and there're new issues. Many different people from many different communities are trying to currently convert cars. I never got so many messages from people asking if they can convert something.

You complain about people not releasing yet you say people shouldn't release anymore? Apart from that, I'm not really sure what you could gain from releasing, or what you can lose by deciding not to release something.

Do you know vehicle modelers who will release their work if it's not locked, apart from giving development parts? That's where it all starts. On one side, people wanting an open community about modding and on the other, people who want to lock their work so no one would make use of it ever again. That's definitely not healthy, that's what I'm complaining about. Not the fact that no one released anything yet, but the fact that they don't plan to release something unlocked. I've respect for modelers work, especially yours that always has been so neat and clean, but locking everything is definitely not the solution.

At the end, if there's no real way to lock models properly, and modellers decide to not release their work because of that, what will happen? The non-modeler community will keep using the released work with vanilla cars and stuff released by more helpful modelers who want to make modding more open to everyone, and the modeler community will stay with tons of models in their hands without even knowing what to do of them. So yeah, pretty sure we wouldn't be the side with the most losses.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Hystery

 

 (excuse the empty quote box, I can't seem to get rid of it)

Do you know vehicle modelers who will release their work if it's not locked, apart from giving development parts? That's where it all starts. On one side, people wanting an open community about modding and on the other, people who want to lock their work so no one would make use of it ever again. That's definitely not healthy, that's what I'm complaining about. Not the fact that no one released anything yet, but the fact that they don't plan to release something unlocked. I've respect for modelers work, especially yours that always has been so neat and clean, but locking everything is definitely not the solution.

At the end, if there's no real way to lock models properly, and modellers decide to not release their work because of that, what will happen? The non-modeler community will keep using the released work with vanilla cars and stuff released by more helpful modelers who want to make modding more open to everyone, and the modeler community will stay with tons of models in their hands without even knowing what to do of them. So yeah, pretty sure we wouldn't be the side with the most losses.

Just because we aren't releasing things doesn't mean that we "aren't helpful". Learning is taking the time to research into the topic, rather than being handed a model saying "Here. Take it and put it in ZModeler, wow you've learned a lot". There should be a locking function for those who want their work to be locked, there will always be somebody who released their stuff unlocked because there are those that do it today. Why do you seem to think that a lot of modders will have "tons of models in their hands without knowing what to do with them"? What is that supposed to mean, I don't quite understand what you mean. Simple as this, the modders don't get a lock function, most of them won't release their stuff. I don't see why you complain about people showing screenshots of their work because they aren't releasing them, can they not display what they've been working on? As I said, why do so many people act hungry for these mods? Have patience, people are still figuring out how things work in V. Modders aren't robots.

Do you know vehicle modelers who will release their work if it's not locked, apart from giving development parts? That's where it all starts. On one side, people wanting an open community about modding, on the other people who want to lock their work so no one would make use of it ever again. That's definitely not healthy, that's what I'm complaining about. Not the fact that no one released anything yet, but the fact that they don't plan to release something unlocked. I've respect for modelers work, especially yours that always has been so neat and clean, but locking everything is definitely not the solution.

At the end, if there's no real way to lock models properly, and modellers decide to not release their work because of that, what will happen? The non-modeler community will keep using the released work with vanilla cars and stuff released by more helpful modelers who want to make modding more open to everyone, and the modeler community will stay with tons of models in their hands without even knowing what to do of them. So yeah, pretty sure we wouldn't be the side with the most losses.

It would be absolutely useless to give up locking just because 0.1% of the people in the community know a way around it. Why do people lock their cars? Because they don't want other people to take their credit. If people respected the modders and nobody ever posted wrong credits, there would have never been a reason to need a way to lock cars. I can live without locking, but I sure don't mind modders who rather not just rely on people crediting them. And before the debate about whether credits are useful or not: If you want to use a converted car but without having to post credits, you'll have to convert it yourself. It's as simple as that.

You obviously won't just use vanilla models. Most modders I've been talking to have not even started creating vehicles for V, mostly because ZMod3 is much more expensive. I know a lot of people are currently converting the CVPI from DSF, but it's just going to take time. The community has always been in competition, people were always trying to create new, better mods. This time, I guess, many people are going to want to have the best conversion. And in my opinion, that's better than everybody wanting to be the first one.

Honestly, so far the only people I've seen complain about locking do not create new content themselves. Almost all of them never modeled anything, most of them don't even know how to convert anything. Yet they demand access to everything else. That's an attitude many modders can't stand at all, and I can't blame them.

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Cj24

  I've been on both standpoints of this argument. Before i got into modeling, i didn't care that a car was locked or not, i didn't see it as the creator being an egotistical prick, i saw it as them sharing their creation and allowing for people to learn how to do what they do by just looking at it in openIV, and for the people who don't care about that, for them to just use their creation in game.

  I don't understand why people are taking modders not wanting to pretty much giving out their work without wanting to. If i wanted to give out the GT500 i recently converted, then i would. If i wanted to give out lightbars and stuff like that, that i made, then i would. 

  I've posted my feelings about this before, I don't see a reason why a lock filter shouldn't be put on zmod3, Its the same as zmod2, where if you really want a car that another person has, you can rip it. It has been treated really well in this community where rippers get shunned, and removed from websites because if a person releases a file locked, they don't intend on letting people have access to the development of it, they just want to share their creation with the community, get feedback on their model, then improve their skills for their next public release. 

  Hystery, you insult modders who only want to release locked models, but what happens if you go and spend 7 hours making a vehicle, lightbar, etc, and you want to have it be exclusive, you want to release it locked so people can use it in their game but not have it to use on their vehicles. You're not going to go and release it saying "You may not use any parts on this vehicle on any other release." People aren't going to listen to you, they are going to do what they want because they now have access to your unlocked file. There is a large satisfaction about releasing a file, that you spent so goddamn long on and people giving you feedback, whether it be good or bad. 

  Having no lock filter on Zmod3 will take away from people doing DEV releases. When I see people doing DEV releases, i think its awesome people do that. They do that because they WANT to release it to the public, to see people have access to their hard work. 

  Theres a part of this argument that you can't talk about if you haven't ever done dev releases or made a release that you spent a day and a half on. There is a portion that is also up to a persons view on the community, that it should be open, that everyone's files should be open to development by anyone and everyone. My view is that people should have to work for their files, their stuff like that. I worked my way up to what i have now, the skills i've developed and the parts i've acquired. Hell, i have no problem helping out a new person eager to learn about zmod, or how to model, ill even give them some of my stuff that i've made or converted to just get them started. 

  All in all, this is just my feelings on the topic. There wasn't an issue with the community before, with a lock feature, people did DEV releases or just gave out their stuff if they so wanted to, so why now does this need to change? We were a happy family before. 

 

Let the staff adopt whatever stance and set whatever double standards they want, the result will be that modelers will simply move elsewhere. What I will say is that it ought to be the modelers' decision as to whether or not they decide to release their work unlocked, its not to be forced by a majority of people who haven't got the slightest clue in terms of how much time and effort is invested in modeling.

 

You've always spoken the truth when it came to things like this on this website. Kudos to you, and I agree 100%.

Normally, I don't ever reply to these topics or any topics unless they are requesting help. 

Hystery,

I really do NOT understand why people keep doing these stupid topics with their opinion.  NOBODY actually cares what YOU think. All they care about is what they think and what they want to happen. Making a topic and starting a flame war has absolutely no resolvement in the debate about whether or not Zmod3 should have a lock feature for V. We had the option to lock in Zmod2 for IV. There is absolutely no difference between then and now. All that is different, is people becoming with more greed because of the more Development Resources that the community has released. Mostly people are bitching because they don't want to wait several years after the release of V to have a vast amount of DEV parts as there is available for IV now, after several years. NOBODY had to release any development parts for IV, yet they did. People will do the exact same thing now with V. 

Whining and Bitching to people about wanting things unlocked/given to you, will get you nowhere. It actually shows the modelers who happen to make these things, especially the DEV Parts how childish the community is. All you guys are doing is whining until mommy and daddy gives you what you want, or not at all and the arguments and tantrums still continue until you find something else to whine about. Either way, you move on. It's life. It's the modelers choice as to whether or not they decide to release anything unlocked or not; However, complaining about locked models, makes the modelers who do release quality mods, either not want to release it no matter what(locked or not), or never as a DEV part, and especially not here on LCPDFR since it's not supported. 

If that's not good enough for you, put it this way: Just tell LCPDFR to release LSPDFR unlocked as open-source. Apparently everything for V should be unlocked, right? LSPDFR is for V. ...................... Exactly, they won't. Why? Because they took the time to create something of quality and wish to preserve it for the community they wish to keep it on. It's their choice as to whether or not they release it with open-source for the community. Again, they won't. Too many people would steal it and take complete credit for by making some single small minor change to it. 

I'm on both sides of the fence; however, I'm more for the support of locking for V. I will not release any vehicles for V until there is support to lock. I've made over 60GB worth of skins. I'm not ever going to release anything because of the community wishing to steal and claim as their own although the issue gets taken care of quickly if it does happen (which is a lot, not surprisingly). I can see where people want access to wonderful mods that have been released, I'm the same way but I understand when someone wants it locked to prevent ripping and stealing. 

In summary, quit the bitching and whining. It's not going to get you anywhere nor is it going to persuade the authors who create phenomenal mods, to ever release unlock. In the end, it'll actually make them release locked, no DEV parts, or nothing at all.  I'd rather enjoy something of great quality that is locked than something of shitty quality that is unlocked. 

Edited August 23, 201510 yr by Fartknockr

I've released a fair amount of both locked and unlocked files. And I find that what people take is what they need. So if someone wants a 2015 charger they will find one and use it,even if the have to crack it.

But we should be able to still have the choice to lock files. I know a fair few modders who have bought (my self included) 3d models hand covered them to gta, and who have spent ALOT of time getting working only to see it spam the downloads section (it dose happen, remember the Dodge dart?)

I bought the go-4 model, which gave me the right to use it how I please (it did say it). Now when I make convert this for V I would like the option the lock the model if I want to.

 

Both partys can be at fault here, we both need to change our attitude about how we look at the mods

 

I think this is like a lot of discussions in life where there are several major pieces(talking points) that make up a complete picture/goal.  Things are never that simple.  And similarly another point is,  can you be certain about most things in life?  Financial issues or health, medical emergencies that catch a lot of us off guard.  Cancer, illness, serious injury,  there are some situations where you have no control of.  

I can't personally say I will never get sick or hurt.  I'm sure a lot of us try to be healthy,  do the right things and not take risks on things we are not comfortable with.  But unexpected things WILL happen,  and the effort, most of our strength is put towards overcoming the problem.  I think the main point going on the community side of things,  is how it will be handled.

 

With what I have already said,  let's say that the locked model feature is implemented.  I believe Oleg is the dev for Zmodeler.  And some of his discussions have been posted to this forum.  Even with this hypothetical situation,  I don't think any model author/creator would believe that their work will never be ripped off even if it is locked.     That phrase about building a higher wall and the other side making a taller ladder.  This may be an issue that no one can ever win.  And these discussions can get heated and simply load up the powder keg for a nasty boom every other week.

 

I've not got into GTA V much and I guess I am looking at this debate from a distance. (usual disclaimer- lots of generalizations, no one is being put on the spot. this is about ideas and perspectives.)  Trying to look through hopefully a sensible view point,  is that a model creator doesn't believe that it will never happen.  But what can be done and what action is actually taken once it happens.  I can imagine that some may not have confidence in certain sites to be able to manage it.  And there are probably some authors that don't expect ANY site to be able to manage reports/complaints.

 

To try to come to an understanding.  Having a lock feature or no lock feature is not what the community is about.  We can discuss our opinions,  but that doesn't guarantee anything.  Oleg could have a poll on his site and the "community" votes [9980] for unlocked & [20] for locked models.  Does this mean he has no choice but to leave it unlocked!  Absolutely hell NO.  Zmodeler is his creation and he can take it in whatever direction he chooses.  I know money will likely be brought up to sway decisions.  This is a reality we deal with,  but it doesn't bring up good debates about that issue.  You should not connect issues like that because that is not what modding and community are about.

 

What I'd like to say to all the content creators(btw I probably wouldn't be playing LCPDFR if I didn't think I would be able to replicate my local pd vehicles),  the community shouldn't be telling you what to do.  Community is a mutual thing,  idea of cooperation.  We all have our ideas and opinions on a topic.  In the end,  it is your creation.  If you don't feel comfortable with an idea or have confidence that your work will be taken care of and respected.  You have to make that call and not force yourself to do anything.  It is very unfortunate in saying this(I may not ever get to use my PDs cars in GTA V) but you have to stand firm with what you believe in because there is trust there.  This is a 2 way street and the community needs to respect the author's decision as well.  If there is no understanding and people are shunned because of their choices...  What community is there then......

 

To try to conclude my thoughts,  the locked model issue is entirely in Oleg's court.  He may take some consideration of what the "community" wants or he may take none.  There is the possibility that a technical, design or monetary constraint that could affect the decision of the Zmod creator.  That is something he has the right to do,  and you have the choice of supporting it or not.

 

The community will still be around no matter what the outcome is.   Respect other's decisions and find ways to include people,  not divide them.