Hey Guys,

Before I begin, I'd like to state that I have been either watching from a distance, or involved in the GTA police community since about 2012. I have experience in skinning and modeling in GTA SA, and GTA IV. I've spent countless hours in ZModeler working on private mods, and while I've never done a major project like porting a car, I do completely understand the frustrations that modders face during their time working on mods. I just mention this so that you are aware that I can look at the whole situation of locked vs. unlocked models from both the perspective of someone who enjoys the wonderful mods created, and from that of someone who has spend many hours creating mods myself.

Now that being said, the thing I find incredibly sad about this is the us versus them approach that suddenly everyone seems to have regarding mods. One thing I'd like to bring up and ask everyone to keep in mind in the coming weeks, is that there is no divide between people who mod and those who don't! We are all part of the wider GTA police community, and whether or not you have the skills to create vehicles, as awesome as that may be, should not determine how you are treated. I think we all recognize and admit how much we appreciate modders and their commitment to the community, but we shouldn't let a few assholes who rip people off destroy our trust in each other. We are all here because we share a common interest, and enjoy sharing that and improving that interest for everyone. 

Now that the LCPDFR staff have taken a stance and asked that all content should be unlocked, I think it is time that we work forward to the next steps in building our community, together.

To modders, I completely understand your frustration why you want to be given credit. It is credit you have most definitely earned. I put forward that instead of denying the community access to your talent, that we work together to ensure that when people are building upon your work, and improving it for everyone, we are all giving you the credit and appreciation that you deserve, as well as calling out and punishing those who are not. This benefits everyone. Credit is given to you, and the community benefits from having an even richer selection of content livable

To the wider community, I ask that we please keep in mind the amazing work that modders do for the whole community, and that we work with them to ensure that nothing is ever plagiarized and passed off as original when we all know better. Let's work together to create a place where modders can be confident that by releasing their work, it will only be improved or remixed, and never stolen and claimed as original. Let's make sure credit is given where it is due, instead of being frustrated when it is not.

These are my thoughts on the current situation. If you would like to leave your thoughts, I'd love to hear them, but please keep it kind and respectful, and try to avoid any pointing fingers or attacking anyone. This is a discussion I think we all need to have in a calm and civilized way in order to move forward.

Thank you, and happy policing!

well said :) and maybe if they still need their files locked...they shouldn't put pictures up teasing us about it...

Edited August 16, 201510 yr by vynlthrash

Extremely well said.

well said :) and maybe if they still need their files locked...they shouldn't put pictures up teasing us about it...

You can report them for that. Look at the community gallery guidelines :)

Extremely well said.

You can report them for that. Look at the community gallery guidelines :)

ooooooooooooooooo....heh i dont care too much..just would like a download link with the tease..aha

ooooooooooooooooo....heh i dont care too much..just would like a download link with the tease..aha

Me too. by the way enginesix will you be porting anything over?

Well said. 

Modders- NO ONE is disrespecting the work you do. But this is the internet. You can't expect that through decades of modding that you will be able to hold onto the same technical features that you've enjoyed in past games. That's the kind of thinking that has the potential to destroy the GTA police modding community. You guys don't make things on here for money, you make them so that the community can use them, and because you enjoy making them. It is mutually beneficial for us to move on and get with the times. 

Everyone- you're not entitled to the work of others. Mod makers release things on their own schedules. Its a dick move to post pictures of something you have no intention of releasing, but at the end of the day, they have every right to withhold a release if they're not comfortable with doing so. I want them to feel comfortable with releasing things, and I absolutely think they should. But don't hate on them for it, that's not cool.

Edited August 16, 201510 yr by Riley24

I just made a comment, regarding another topic in a gallery, very similar to this one.  But, I like to hear myself talk and think, so I'm going to write another response here.

First off, I'm a consumer of these models and mods.  I don't contribute to the models, nor the mods.  I will say this though, it seems like the entire reason for these models to exist is to be consumed by the community.  I would like to believe all of these models are being developed simply because thousands of modders and LSPDFR role players will enjoy the content.  With that said, why would it matter if models are being locked.  These models are being used by people having fun and enjoying a game. 

As I said earlier, I believe that model authors who wish to protect their models, simply release a low grade dollar tree version of their model.  Leave the premium model to be released when its able to be protected.  I truly understand a model authors desire to keep their content secured. They've put in the time and work to create something beautiful, that is enjoyed by tens of thousands.  It makes sense to me.  What doesn't make sense is why they would only release the most premium models for the community that so desperately wants them.  Im not asking authors to break their principles and only produce crap models, simply that they keep hold of the community that gives them purpose. 

I just made a comment, regarding another topic in a gallery, very similar to this one.  But, I like to hear myself talk and think, so I'm going to write another response here.

First off, I'm a consumer of these models and mods.  I don't contribute to the models, nor the mods.  I will say this though, it seems like the entire reason for these models to exist is to be consumed by the community.  I would like to believe all of these models are being developed simply because thousands of modders and LSPDFR role players will enjoy the content.  With that said, why would it matter if models are being locked.  These models are being used by people having fun and enjoying a game. 

As I said earlier, I believe that model authors who wish to protect their models, simply release a low grade dollar tree version of their model.  Leave the premium model to be released when its able to be protected.  I truly understand a model authors desire to keep their content secured. They've put in the time and work to create something beautiful, that is enjoyed by tens of thousands.  It makes sense to me.  What doesn't make sense is why they would only release the most premium models for the community that so desperately wants them.  Im not asking authors to break their principles and only produce crap models, simply that they keep hold of the community that gives them purpose. 

Good point. That should be what models are for.

If there's such a problem with releasing unlocked models, why do it in the first place I may ask?

I never liked the idea of a huge locked up community full of a bunch of random car mods. I'd rather have a small freely open community with a few mods in it than a shit fest of drama over a bunch of virtual car mods. It's not like it's the end of modding, I like to put the best quality I am capable of into my modifications for GTA V and allow them to be of use to anyone who would like to take upon it and maybe even make it better. It's quite amazing what a community with people working together can do. Of course you'll still get the blokes here and there pissing on your work and treating it like shit, but that's just life. Happens to everyone. No matter what may happen here, I'll just clean up and move on. No need to end it all.

maybe we can give people these for not locking their stuff??

No offense to any moderators on the community team, but until I see an official post by Sam regarding LCPDFR's stance on mods for GTA V, I'm going to refrain from fully addressing this topic.

maybe we can give people these for not locking their stuff??

Perfect

It's a point that should be addressed to the Zmodeler team. As far as I'm aware, there are no plans from Zmodeler to allow model locking in V.

Edited August 17, 201510 yr by Cyan

No offense to any moderators on the community team, but until I see an official post by Sam regarding LCPDFR's stance on mods for GTA V, I'm going to refrain from fully addressing this topic.

At this point, I'd say our focus will be more on encouraging and supporting GTA V modding the best we can, regardless of the debate about locked models.  

Personally though, I am pleased that we at least have the chance to try something different here with ZModeler 3.  Of course, there's always going to be some turbulence to start with, but if going forward this (models being unlocked) is how things are going to be, then I think we should stay the course and give it a try.  Unfortunately it will never be to everyone's taste, I get that, but for those that are willing to give it a go - let's do this.

Learning from our experiences with GTA IV, we'll be doing everything we can to make modding for GTA V better.  This isn't going to involve not so well thought through status updates, but will start with concrete action instead, like the awesome changes to our downloads section that we're making and the introduction of a proper resource that the community can not only use, but add to, covering LCPDFR, LSPDFR and modding in general.

At this point, I'd say our focus will be more on encouraging and supporting GTA V modding the best we can, regardless of the debate about locked models.  

Personally though, I am pleased that we at least have the chance to try something different here with ZModeler 3.  Of course, there's always going to be some turbulence to start with, but if going forward this (models being unlocked) is how things are going to be, then I think we should stay the course and give it a try.  Unfortunately it will never be to everyone's taste, I get that, but for those that are willing to give it a go - let's do this.

Learning from our experiences with GTA IV, we'll be doing everything we can to make modding for GTA V better.  This isn't going to involve not so well thought through status updates, but will start with concrete action instead, like the awesome changes to our downloads section that we're making and the introduction of a proper resource that the community can not only use, but add to, covering LCPDFR, LSPDFR and modding in general.

No matter how the wind howls, the mountain cannot bow to it. The turbulent we feel now, are going to leave stones of lessons and solutions to curb anti-modding and protect the author's due diligence against theft and other reasons that infringes their rights. For the scars this community has received, have always recovered as a stronger foundation for the GTA police modding community and as a light tower for opportunity. 

 

Edited August 17, 201510 yr by GravelRoadCop

I will say though, it is a sad state of affairs when there exists such a rift between people who make things and the people that make making things worthwhile.  At the end of the day, modding should be a mutually beneficial type of thing.  I can't say I'd get too excited about the prospect of spending 1000 hours playing GTA V during the development of the first couple of versions of LSPDFR if it was only going to be me and a couple of friends playing the end result of that effort.  It is indescribably more worthwhile, though, when you can transform those thousand hours into thousands of smiles.

I get that somebody will make the argument that we have nothing to worry about as LSPDFR isn't open source.  This isn't an entirely fair criticism, though, as LCPDFR could be easily decompiled into source code all the way until LCPDFR 0.95.  That possibility sure as hell never stopped any of us.

No matter how the wind howls, the mountain cannot bow to it. The turbulent we feel now, are going to leave stones of lessons and solutions to curb anti-modding and protect the author's due diligence against theft and other reasons that infringes their rights. For the scars this community has received, have always recovered as a stronger foundation for the GTA police modding community and as a light tower for opportunity. 

 

You can bet that we will, because that's simply what we do.

Edited August 17, 201510 yr by Sam

No matter how the wind howls, the mountain cannot bow to it. The turbulent we feel now, are going to leave stones of lessons and solutions to curb anti-modding and protect the author's due diligence against theft and other reasons that infringes their rights. For the scars this community has received, have always recovered as a stronger foundation for the GTA police modding community and as a light tower for opportunity. 

 

That was *sniffles* so beautiful and so perfect.

Honestly, I don't think anything is going to change. Instead of locking models, people simply won't give permission to edit them.

Just because all models can be edited, far from all models may be edited. The only thing that's going to be easier is to import models in ZMod. However, it's going to be a lot more complicated to check whether credits are correct or permissions were given. In the past, you were able to filter for unlocked models and you were allowed to use nearly all of them without any further permissions. Now you'll need to check every single model part to find out if you may edit it or have to contact the author to ask for permission.

Without the ability to lock models, there won't be a new "open source" modding community. There'll just be much more reports because people don't want others to edit their mods.

Edited August 17, 201510 yr by Cj24

Honestly, I don't think anything is going to change. Instead of locking models, people simply won't give permission to edit them.

Just because all models can be edited, far from all models may be edited. The only thing that's going to be easier is to import models in ZMod. However, it's going to be a lot more complicated to check whether credits are correct or permissions were given. In the past, you were able to filter for unlocked models, because you were allowed to use nearly all of them. Now you'll need to check every single model if you may edit it or contact the author to ask for permission.

Without the ability to lock models, there won't be a new "open source" modding community. There'll just be much more reports because people don't want others to edit their mods.

What about branding each parts with your name before putting it in the vehicle ? Something like a barcode or whatever that indicates it was your work. 

What about branding each parts with your name before putting it in the vehicle ? Something like a barcode or whatever that indicates it was your work. 

That's an excellent idea. Almost a watermark but for a 3d model.

You could put it underneath somewhere and in my opinion that would probably cut down on the stealing, while keeping a pleasant appearance.

Edited August 17, 201510 yr by thegreathah