This might be in the wrong section so feel free to move. I need to know if this is a BS legal claim. So I like to responding videos and on scene of FD, PD, and EMS. I've been stock piling them and just starting to post them. Now my local FD has started breathing down my neck. My friend said they were getting "suspicious" and "mad". So I started talking to the explorer captain. I asked if it was a privacy issue. He replied with,

"This is the captain of the fire explorers. You are not aloud to be taking videos of fire apparatuses leaving, going to, or arriving, being on seen due to legal issues. If there is a mess up in process of an acknowledge call." (sorry for all the typos his spelling not mine)

Me: "We'll I'll check online and see what I can find. Now is this a concern of the FD's liability in the event of an injury?"

Him: "Yes and in case of incessant of a fire fighter is hurt or killed there can be NO VIDEO TAPING OF THE FIRE TRUCKS UNLESS GIVING PERMISSION BY THE FIRE CHIEF. Also if giving permission videos can only be viewed for personal entertainment.

Therefore not allowed to be posted on the internet"

My Friend: "And ____ and ____ and also the fire chief told me to tell you and me not to take videos of the trucks"

I'll spare you the details of the next part, but the FD (during a call response) forced him to delete videos. The explorer replied explaining that you can get in trouble if you don't listen.

Me: "So am I allowed to take videos for personal entertainment and not post them or not"?

Him: "Yes you can do that but if we find out you are posting them you will be contacted"

Me: "Okay that's fine."

Him: "____,

You are not to be taking anymore videos of the trucks we have proof that you are on YouTube. I have a link attached seperate that shows we have proof if you are caught doing it again you will be brought up to the fire chief."

Not knowing what he meant at the time said you can check regularly and if it goes for EMS as well. He said I have to check with them.

Him: "Keep the videos you have up there are just no new ones to be posted."

While writing this I protested sating they were LAFD and a neighboring hamlet's. I have not yet received a response.

Is this BS? The conflicts in his typing and the fact a explorer captain is doing a chief's or deputy chief's job is puzzling. You advice?

I can't imagine that would be illegal, but I don't know what the laws are in the US. I assume the laws in the US are similar to UK's though, that there is no expectation of privacy in public spaces. That being said, I don't know if it's entirely a great idea to piss off the local FD.

They are a public entity traveling down a public road, and therefore, are not entitled to any privacy requirements. It is exactly the same as taping a random car driving down the road. 

N.Y. Penal Law § 250.45. The law, however, does not criminalize the use of recording devices for other purposes in areas to which the public has access or there is no reasonable expectation of privacy (i.e., filming conversations on public streets or a hotel lobby).

• NY Laws ›
•  
• Penal Law ›
•  
• Part 3 ›
•  
• Title N ›
•  
• Article 250

S 250.65 Additional provisions.
  1.  The  provisions  of  sections 250.45, 250.50, 250.55 and 250.60 of
this article do not apply with  respect  to  any:  (a)  law  enforcement
personnel  engaged  in  the  conduct  of  their  authorized  duties; (b)
security system wherein a written notice is conspicuously posted on  the
premises stating that a video surveillance system has been installed for
the  purpose of security; or (c) video surveillance devices installed in
such a manner that their presence is clearly and immediately obvious.
  2. With respect to sections 250.55 and 250.60  of  this  article,  the
provisions of subdivision two of section 235.15 and subdivisions one and
two of section 235.24 of this chapter shall apply.

If these laws do not apply to law enforcement, they should not apply to any emergency responders. The only thing you need to watch out for is taking EMS when a patient is clearly visible due to patient confidentiality laws.

3 minutes ago, Justice890 said:

If these laws do not apply to law enforcement, they should not apply to any emergency responders. The only thing you need to watch out for is taking EMS when a patient is clearly visible due to patient confidentiality laws.

Patient confidentiality laws only apply to medical providers. As an unrelated bystander, you aren't violating patient confidentiality by taking a video. There are certainly ethical considerations for distributing photos or videos of a person having a medical emergency, but there are no additional legal restrictions on doing so. 

Now, if the OP is involved in the fire department's explorers program or is otherwise affiliated with the department, it's all a different story. There may be some department policy against filming, which he would have to abide by. You could be removed from the program for violating such policies, but I don't think there would be any legal ramifications to it. Of course if you're affiliated with the department then patient confidentiality laws would apply. 

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. 

5 minutes ago, Cyan said:

I can't imagine that would be illegal, but I don't know what the laws are in the US. I assume the laws in the US are similar to UK's though, that there is no expectation of privacy in public spaces. That being said, I don't know if it's entirely a great idea to piss off the local FD.

 

2 minutes ago, Justice890 said:

-snip-

Well me and the captain figured something out. Through all his conflicting claims I can take videos just not post them. He said the old chief (no power whatsoever) and the chief told him to tell me. I agree with Cyan not to make them mad. Your both right. This is a BS claim, but I'll obey. I think they're concerned about law suits if they screw up (which is very likely because they're all as dumb as rocks and they HRs weigh as much as rocks too). But maybe further down the road I may consult the chief and not get their BS second or third hand. Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

3 minutes ago, HomerS said:

 

Well me and the captain figured something out. Through all his conflicting claims I can take videos just not post them. He said the old chief (no power whatsoever) and the chief told him to tell me. I agree with Cyan not to make them mad. Your both right. This is a BS claim, but I'll obey. I think they're concerned about law suits if they screw up (which is very likely because they're all as dumb as rocks and they HRs weigh as much as rocks too). But maybe further down the road I may consult the chief and not get their BS second or third hand. Thank you for confirming what I suspected.

Since they are a public entity, under the freedom of information act, just ask them to see the part of the departments policy that says you can't do that. They should be able to show you, IF it exists....

17 minutes ago, PNWParksFan said:

You could be removed from the program for violating such policies, but I don't think there would be any legal ramifications to it. Of course if you're affiliated with the department then patient confidentiality laws would apply. 

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. 

Not an explorer! But I will see if there is a department policy. He didn't mention it so we'll see.

 

14 minutes ago, Justice890 said:

Since they are a public entity, under the freedom of information act, just ask them to see the part of the departments policy that says you can't do that. They should be able to show you, IF it exists....

I think I will. But I'll chat with them and get them to know. Me I think they see me as an angel of death off in the corner always standing always watching. I'll talk about why I do it and not get into a legal battle.

As you are an explorer and not paid member of the agency, this opens up a can of worms if anything happens, and you happen to film it. It's not only potentially a liability to the department, i.e. it can be used in a lawsuit against the agency, but it can also be used in criminal court. If you violate any laws, such as patient privacy laws, you yourself become liable for damages, as well as the agency itself for knowingly and willfully allowing you to do so. You can have your camera seized, you can be called to testify in a courtroom, both things your department does not want to deal with. Most likely, it's being considered a liability, and because of that, you can't record.

 

Thanks to today's society, every public agency is under extreme constant scrutiny of the general public, looking for any reason to start something, whether or not they have correct or factual information. 

 

19 minutes ago, BountyLCPD said:

As you are an explorer and not paid member of the agency, this opens up a can of worms if anything happens, and you happen to film it. It's not only potentially a liability to the department, i.e. it can be used in a lawsuit against the agency, but it can also be used in criminal court. If you violate any laws, such as patient privacy laws, you yourself become liable for damages, as well as the agency itself for knowingly and willfully allowing you to do so. You can have your camera seized, you can be called to testify in a courtroom, both things your department does not want to deal with. Most likely, it's being considered a liability, and because of that, you can't record.

 

Thanks to today's society, every public agency is under extreme constant scrutiny of the general public, looking for any reason to start something, whether or not they have correct or factual information. 

 

Don't think you read close enough or I wasn't clear. I CAN record just not post on the internet. I think they just don't want to make themselves look bad or be sewed if they screw while rolling code and crash into a car or kill someone. Now I think I can record just not post, but if someone gets hurt I have to delete it. That's why I'm talking to a VFD about if I get the chance because conflicting claims and spelling errors from an explorer are just not clear.

We're on the same page - I'm pretty sure they don't want you posting to the internet anything that you've recorded due to liability. I didn't put that in my previous post, my mistake. 

19 minutes ago, BountyLCPD said:

We're on the same page - I'm pretty sure they don't want you posting to the internet anything that you've recorded due to liability. I didn't put that in my previous post, my mistake. 

Not a problem friend.

Based on my understanding, he totally lied to you. Some people HATE being filmed while they work, but that doesn't make it illegal. If you're on public property, you're absolutely allowed to film public employees. Its like when cops tell people they can't film them during a traffic stop or while arresting someone on a public sidewalk: total lie. The 1st Amendment protects your right to film on public property.

People jumped in with answers rather quickly here; good.

I just want to expand on a few comments with the EMS/Police work and ride along experience I've had in my life:

-There is no law that prohibits you from video taping in public. If you follow them into a private business or residence, that's another issue. But if you're on a public street you may video tape all you like from across the road. 

-HIPAA does not cover video recordings of interactions between civilians and EMTs/Paramedics/Fire Fighters with EMT certifications, so there is no privacy issue. If they screw up during a patient assessment, or somebody gets harmed as a result of improper care; you are not liable because you didn't touch the patient. They are liable. They just don't want that on film for use in court or to be up on YouTube so everyone can see it.

-Firefighters and EMS workers are not police officers. They have no power of arrest, however they can certainly harass you and send you threatening letters from lawyers. They can also potentially have a police officer come to the scene and arrest you. When you go to court, this charge will likely be thrown out, however it's a major inconvenience and might even cost you money. Some judges have also upheld charges against video recorders that should be dropped. I wouldn't risk it if you don't want to take measures to protect yourself.

-Get a lawyer to help you out if you wish to continue filming (if people don't stand up to them this will continue to be the status quo), and call your local police department with reassurance you can't be arrested o r get in any kind of other trouble for doing what you're doing. They handle legal issues, Fire Departments handle fires and medical calls.

Edited August 5, 20169 yr by unr3al

We're not lawyers and no one can answer this question for you. Locking. 

Contact a lawyer to get a legal response.