7 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

Shouting in a library is not terrorism...

I think we need to remind ourselves what terrorism means:

ter·ror·ism:

noun

noun: terrorism

1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

    

    

   Were they using violence and intimidation? Yes: they were yelling at students and calling them names. Are they trying to complete some sort of political agenda? Yes.

2 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

That's not their leader.

My bad, Shes only their inspiration and the name they chant at some of their rally's

Shes also allies with the leader of BLM

 

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by officerAMR

2 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

I think we need to remind ourselves what terrorism means:

ter·ror·ism:

noun

noun: terrorism

1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

    

    

   Were they using violence and intimidation? Yes: they were yelling at students and calling them names. Are they trying to complete some sort of political agenda? Yes.

So everyone that open carries at second amendment protests is a terrorist? They're using intimidation. And its in the pursuit of political aims.

But no, those are red blooded Americans, right? 

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by Riley24

4 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

I think we need to remind ourselves what terrorism means:

ter·ror·ism:

noun

noun: terrorism

1. the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

    

    

   Were they using violence and intimidation? Yes: they were yelling at students and calling them names. Are they trying to complete some sort of political agenda? Yes.

So I'm assuming you classify the Westboro Baptist "Church" as terrorists as well right? Like Riley said, are 2nd amendment "activists" terrorists?

7 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

So everyone that open carries at second amendment protests is a terrorist? They're using intimidation. And its in the pursuit of political aims.

But no, those are red blooded Americans, right? 

 

 

4 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

So I'm assuming you classify the Westboro Baptist "Church" as terrorists as well right? Like Riley said, are 2nd amendment "activists" terrorists?

Well it's subjective. That's why earlier in the thread I said 'in my opinion'. I am not fearful of people who open carry and have the permit to do so. However others may be. And I don't classify Westboro Baptist Church as terrorists, I classify them as lunatics.

Listen: I have plenty of grievances with the BLM movement. The only reason I'm defending them here, is because whats the alternative? All of us grumbling about how much we hate a justice system reform group? That's an ugly sight to see. I want to have a legitimate conversation about the movement. What scares me more than anything is just how much bullshit is being spread in the debate all throughout the country. They're not a terrorist organization, a hate group, or a black supremacist group claiming only black lives should matter. I feel the need to correct that BS because it does NOTHING to further a very important debate we should be having instead.

1 minute ago, tanu1215 said:

 

 

Well it's subjective. That's why earlier in the thread I said 'in my opinion'. I am not fearful of people who open carry and have the permit to do so. However others may be. And I don't classify Westboro Baptist Church as terrorists, I classify them as lunatics.

You classify BLM as terrorists because you want to, that's all. It fits your world view. The BLM protest in Dallas had a First Amendment right to protest, and they even had a permit. with police protection included. To look at them and call them terrorists is just plain silly.

10 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

Listen: I have plenty of grievances with the BLM movement. The only reason I'm defending them here, is because whats the alternative? All of us grumbling about how much we hate a justice system reform group? That's an ugly sight to see. I want to have a legitimate conversation about the movement. What scares me more than anything is just how much bullshit is being spread in the debate all throughout the country. They're not a terrorist organization, a hate group, or a black supremacist group claiming only black lives should matter. I feel the need to correct that BS because it does NOTHING to further a very important debate we should be having instead.

You classify BLM as terrorists because you want to, that's all. It fits your world view. The BLM protest in Dallas had a First Amendment right to protest, and they even had a permit. with police protection included. To look at them and call them terrorists is just plain silly.

Yeah but like I said I am not just looking at the Dallas protest. And I am not just looking at them as terrorists 'because I want to'. I am doing it because I am terrorized by what they do. It's not like I am comparing them to Al Qaeda or ISIL. I am not acting like they're running through the streets gunning people down. I am calling them terrorists because.. well.. I am scared of what they do.

I support their idea, but I don't support how they try to display those ideas to the public.

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by tanu1215

12 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

Yeah but like I said I am not just looking at the Dallas protest. And I am not just looking at them as terrorists 'because I want to'. I am doing it because I am terrorized by what they do. It's not like I am comparing them to Al Qaeda or ISIL. I am not acting like they're running through the streets gunning people down. I am calling them terrorists because.. well.. I am scared of what they do.

I support their idea, but I don't support how they try to display those ideas to the public.

Terrorism isn't a subjective term, it's just poorly defined and it's always interesting what is and isn't terrorism. But terrorism is NOT defined by whether or not you feel terorrized. If that's the case, then anything can be terrorism.

9 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

Terrorism isn't a subjective term, it's just poorly defined and it's always interesting what is and isn't terrorism. But terrorism is NOT defined by whether or not you feel terorrized. If that's the case, then anything can be terrorism.

Sure, it is poorly defined, and is solely used by governments. However, I am going off by the very definition of terrorism to describe the group. You're right, the word terrorism can be used to describe anything. But, since BLM is a group, and the US usually associates terrorist attacks with groups, I am saying that BLM is a terror group. Terrorism sure is subjective, because it isn't only poorly defined, it's because everyone has different opinions on what is terrorism and what is not

Anyway, I will stop talking about this now, because this thread doesn't seem like the appropriate place for a debate like this.

My final word is that this was a terror attack on innocent people which claimed the lives of five innocent police officers who did not have anything to do with the situation in the other states. The attacker was a coward, and I hope that no civil unrest erupts to a massive scale.

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by tanu1215

2 hours ago, tanu1215 said:

My final word is that this was a terror attack on innocent people which claimed the lives of five innocent police officers who did not have anything to do with the situation in the other states. The attacker was a coward, and I hope that no civil unrest erupts to a massive scale.

I doubt this. The protests have been peaceful. I think that is one reason why he was able to kill so many.

 

6 hours ago, Riley24 said:

Respond to this: what in the world are you talking about? They have a quote of hers on their website of her promoting peace and love. Do you really think the average protesters is walking around idolizing cop killers? PLEASE do me a favor and go on the Dallas shooting hashtag and read all of the thousands of BLM protesters condemning the snipers and mourning the loss of the officers. Does that not count? 

So if I put "Peace and Love rule! - Hitler", it's no problem supporting Hitler? It's like you think some BS quote of hers erases the fact that she's a convicted cop-killing terrorist fugitive who is beatified by BLM leaders (like all these other criminals BLM has taken on the cause of).

And do me a favor: on a day when condemning violence against cops isn't in their best interest, go do the same. I have, constantly, and it's nothing but hatred.

I'd like to chime in and say that I personally think the BLM movement is a joke, I don't think they're on a level of terrorism (not yet, but getting close), but whatever "support" they had before, they're progressively losing - and not because of this particular incident either. Prior to this massacre and protest the BLM movement shoved its way into a Pride Parade here in Toronto Canada. They completely halted the parade and they issued demands to the director of the parade, their demands? To not have any Police Pride Floats to ever make an appearance in any pride parade ever again. 

The Police were genuinely having a great time, they had some awesome floats and a lot of the Police floats were in respects to the Orlando shooting victims. I don't care what group you are, but how disrespectful can you be to disrupt a parade that had floats honouring those who perished? I lost a little respect for the BLM movement a while ago when they blockaded a freeway, but the parade incident completely made me lose any respect for anyone involved in the movement.

I get that Police are not perfect, they are human after all, but the BLM movement seems to be built on the idea that all apples are bad regardless of circumstance. The BLM movement can't seem to distinguish the difference between one Officer's dumb mistake is not an entire continent's police force. Toronto Police has had very few incidents involving Officer vs. civilian shootings and the shootings that have happened have not been Officer on black.

I digress, the Justice system all around is a very flawed system....but targeting the Police isn't doing anyone any favours and people seem to forget that an Officer's job puts food on his/her's family's table at the end of the day. Blocking traffic and people from just trying to earn a living, interrupting parade's, events and the like isn't getting BLM anywhere and is seemingly getting farther from their overall goal.

I feel like this somewhat applies to this conversation.

I think the protest and the shooting were separate. The suspect told the negotiator he was upset about Black Lives Matter, the two recent police shootings of black men, white people, and police. He also stated he was acting alone and was affiliated with no one.

23 minutes ago, Solidefiance said:

I'd like to chime in and say that I personally think the BLM movement is a joke, I don't think they're on a level of terrorism (not yet, but getting close), but whatever "support" they had before, they're progressively losing - and not because of this particular incident either. Prior to this massacre and protest the BLM movement shoved its way into a Pride Parade here in Toronto Canada. They completely halted the parade and they issued demands to the director of the parade, their demands? To not have any Police Pride Floats to ever make an appearance in any pride parade ever again. 

The Police were genuinely having a great time, they had some awesome floats and a lot of the Police floats were in respects to the Orlando shooting victims. I don't care what group you are, but how disrespectful can you be to disrupt a parade that had floats honouring those who perished? I lost a little respect for the BLM movement a while ago when they blockaded a freeway, but the parade incident completely made me lose any respect for anyone involved in the movement.

I get that Police are not perfect, they are human after all, but the BLM movement seems to be built on the idea that all apples are bad regardless of circumstance. The BLM movement can't seem to distinguish the difference between one Officer's dumb mistake is not an entire continent's police force. Toronto Police has had very few incidents involving Officer vs. civilian shootings and the shootings that have happened have not been Officer on black.

I digress, the Justice system all around is a very flawed system....but targeting the Police isn't doing anyone any favours and people seem to forget that an Officer's job puts food on his/her's family's table at the end of the day. Blocking traffic and people from just trying to earn a living, interrupting parade's, events and the like isn't getting BLM anywhere and is seemingly getting farther from their overall goal.

I think once you realize there is a problem, you can't ignore it because of the way people complain, particularly if it is non-violent. The BLM may be disrespectful, and misguided, but at its core have legitimate grievances that have to be addressed, not ignored or rationalized. There have been enough studies (you can look them up) to show statistically minorities are more likely to be searched, ticketed, arrested, and harshly punished. There are issues within those communities that help give rise to those statics, which is one reason why I don't support BLM. However, it doesn't erase the other side of the equation. Police departments have to do a better job, particularly in this post-Ferguson digital age, where rumor moves at a pace fact struggles to keep up with.

Dallas Police Department is known as one of the more progressive departments, with a very good pro-community police policy. It showed during and after the shooting. They were responding to a non-violent protests, and were ambushed. Once the threat was removed they de-escalated, where other departments might have taken a diffferent, more counter-productive route.

3 hours ago, The Loot said:

So if I put "Peace and Love rule! - Hitler", it's no problem supporting Hitler? It's like you think some BS quote of hers erases the fact that she's a convicted cop-killing terrorist fugitive who is beatified by BLM leaders (like all these other criminals BLM has taken on the cause of).

And do me a favor: on a day when condemning violence against cops isn't in their best interest, go do the same. I have, constantly, and it's nothing but hatred.

BLM should have further condemned the bad that she did, but they didn't. The focused on the good instead. What exactly do you think that proves, that BLM is pro-cop killing?

I have, and all I've seen is complaints about police brutality. No death threats against cops.

10 hours ago, thegreathah said:

Because they need weapons if the liberal government goes after them, which is absolutely fucking ridiculous. 

You are correct about the point where it doesn't phase me anymore. All that happens is I change my Facebook Photo for half a week, the government fails to address the issue, and then it happens over and over again. When France was attacked, there was outrage, there was change, when Orlando happened our government sat on the issue and the media profited off of it. The same will happen here. 

Rant below:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Guns are dangerous, they are not toys, you shouldn't need a sniper or a semi-auto to hunt or defend yourself. Handguns and shotguns should be the only guns allowed. A 14 year old ten minutes from my house was shot by his own father in a gun range. They were very careful around guns and knew gun safety. Even they have been effected by gun violence. The second amendment needs a second look, not from congress, the president, or the Supreme court. We need a unbiased group to actually go through and look at data from this country and other countries about guns. The amendment was not created with the 21st century in mind. It has gone from something necessary to create and maintain militias to something that gives everyone the chance to kill themselves or others, whether on purpose, or by accident.

I'm also absolutely sick and tired of Chicago being used as an example of how a gun free zone can't work. Ya want to know why it can't work. It would be because literally a mile from the city there are gun stores in Indiana an extremely pro-gun state that sell guns without looking at IDs. The police in Chicago maintain that 60% of the guns they pull off of the street are from Indiana. I'm so fucking tired of the mass killings, the police shootings, all of it in this nation. We are supposed to be role models for the world, we have quickly become a model of what not to do.

 

 

That is where I have to respectfully disagree with you. Accident's can happen, everyone knows it, you can be the most careful driver and still get into an accident. No matter what. Assault Rifles and Snipers are fun guns to have around and shoot IF you use them right. I don't think we need stupid "Gun Free Zones" they DONT work. We don't need Gun Control or any removal of guns. You just have to be so careful, you need to treat it like a newborn baby.  You also stated Indiana doesn't check ID's in Gun Stores, our gun stores can be SHUT DOWN for not doing the checks. We do everything the correct way. We are pro-gun because we enjoy shooting and shooting sports as a hobby. No need to remove guns that are FINE for the CORRECT people to have.

18 hours ago, Riley24 said:

Not sure what you expect, even the pro-second amendment movement has its share of cop killers.

I expect these people to practice what they preach, and not blatantly lie to push a racial-political agenda instead of using facts. The pro second amendment movement does indeed have its share of cop killers, but it's not nearly as vocal or anti-police as this movement is, nor is it increasing racial tension between black and white. That being said, the second amendment issue could easily have a thread of its own. It's probably best we don't delve too deep into that either, as the U.S. knows what's wrong with its gun laws or lack thereof, and it's inarguable that certain restrictions could have prevented this specific type of shooting seeing as it was conducted with a long gun by somebody with mental problems. But ultimately it's a United States problem, and it's up to the Untied States to fix it. When that will happen; who knows.

Edited July 9, 20169 yr by unr3al

16 minutes ago, unr3al said:

I expect these people to practice what they preach, and not blatantly lie to push a racial-political agenda instead of using facts. The pro second amendment movement does indeed have its share of cop killers, but it's not nearly as vocal or anti-police as this movement is, nor is it increasing racial tension between black and white. That being said, the second amendment issue could easily have a thread of its own. It's probably best we don't delve too deep into that either, as the U.S. knows what's wrong with its gun laws or lack thereof, and it's inarguable that certain restrictions could have prevented this specific type of shooting seeing as it was conducted with a long gun by somebody with mental problems. But ultimately it's a United States problem, and it's up to the Untied States to fix it. When that will happen; who knows.

Demanding police reform is not anti-police. Vast majority of BLM are somber and peaceful, like the one in Dallas was prior to the attack. Don't forget that.

We don't have to get into the gun debate because (1): that's for another thread, and (2): We're in full agreement, which is a breath of fresh air

7 hours ago, Riley24 said:

BLM should have further condemned the bad that she did, but they didn't. The focused on the good instead. What exactly do you think that proves, that BLM is pro-cop killing?

I have, and all I've seen is complaints about police brutality. No death threats against cops.

Yes.

Well, you should open your fucking eyes, because it's rampant. But you have an agenda to protect. 

Oops, what did I find?

 

 

Edited July 9, 20169 yr by The Loot

5 hours ago, Riley24 said:

Demanding police reform is not anti-police. Vast majority of BLM are somber and peaceful, like the one in Dallas was prior to the attack. Don't forget that.

I think we need to distinguish between people who actually are registered members of BLM who make donations and attend meetings; actual BLM people, and people who support the movement and use the hash tag or the name itself to excuse whatever feelings they have or actions they want to take, regardless of whether these things are actually bigoted or violent in nature themselves or not. That's the problem with this movement.

People on social media love using #blacklivesmatter. The vast majority of them are not actual card-carrying members of that group, and I'd wager the same could be said about our shooters in Dallas. Nevertheless, things have gotten out of control in the media and on the streets, and BLM has a hand in it whether the founders intended it after Trayvon got killed or not.