2 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Nope, I've literally been saying the exact same thing this entire time. You have simply been misunderstanding me the entire time. This entire time I've been saying that the chances of a Police officer being wrong in their shooting is low when compared to someone shooting a Police officer. I've also said 90% of the time it's never right to shoot a Police officer, regardless of the circumstances. I'm not saying that the Police are perfect, I'm just saying that shooting a Police officer isn't acceptable under 90% of circumstances, there are jus too many other ways to solve the problem.

Except you're ready to jump the gun and literally say you're already putting the police first over anybody out of the uniform. Officer shot by someone? "Guaranteed unjustified." Someone from the police shoots another person? There's more to the story. When you're not treating that as equal, there's a problem.

1 minute ago, Olanov said:

Except you're ready to jump the gun and literally say you're already putting the police first over anybody out of the uniform. Officer shot by someone? "Guaranteed unjustified." Someone from the police shoots another person? There's more to the story. When you're not treating that as equal, there's a problem.

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's a personal decision that I want to make and on that front, it's a matter of opinion. I've never said that the Police don't make mistakes. But when something controversial happens regarding the Police, I personally choose to put my faith in law enforcement over the supposed victim until evidence surfaces.

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It's a personal decision that I want to make and on that front, it's a matter of opinion. I've never said that the Police don't make mistakes. But when something controversial happens regarding the Police, I personally choose to put my faith in law enforcement over the supposed victim until evidence surfaces.

This is what we call a bias and it has no place in the justice system.

7 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

That's right, you can't call someone a criminal thug with no evidence. The reason I made that statement is because I was referring to some of the past incidents between law enforcement and young black men where the suspect had a criminal record beforehand. Or the suspect had a weapon on them, or ran from the Police. When there's no evidence, I'm generally in favor of law enforcement from the get-go, but as time progresses I'll start to see who I want to "declare my allegiance" with.

At least you are willing to change your opinion.

I understand what you were saying now, I assumed you were referring to all the people killed by police as "criminal thugs".

But, back to the argument. I have to ask, does you being a criminal thug automatically make you a "legal" kill? Even if you weren't doing anything wrong at that moment?

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by thegreathah

1 minute ago, Olanov said:

This is what we call a bias and it has no place in the justice system.

I'm not a part of the justice system, though, so it's irrelevant. It's a matter of opinion. Just as BLM supporters like to automatically assume that a Police involved incident is brutality before evidence even surfaces, I would prefer to automatically assume that the officer did nothing wrong until evidence surfaces.

1 minute ago, thegreathah said:

At least you are willing to change your opinion.

I understand what you were saying now, I assumed you were referring to all the people killed by police as "criminal thugs".

But, back to the argument. I have to ask, does you being a criminal thug automatically make you a "legal" kill? Even if the guy wasn't doing anything wrong at that moment?

 

HELL no. Just because you're a criminal doesn't mean that you deserve to be killed by the law. That's why we have a justice system, granted it's a broken system but we have one nonetheless.

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

I'm not a part of the justice system, though, so it's irrelevant. It's a matter of opinion. Just as BLM supporters like to automatically assume that a Police involved incident is brutality before evidence even surfaces, I would prefer to automatically assume that the officer did nothing wrong until evidence surfaces.

Agreed, you got every right right to hold that opinion but there's a lot of people part of the system that think that way, which makes it a problem.

1 minute ago, Olanov said:

Agreed, you got every right right to hold that opinion but there's a lot of people part of the system that think that way, which makes it a problem.

Right. As someone within the justice system, you can't pick sides before you know the entire story. You have to remain neutral until evidence presents itself, then you have to make an educated, proper, and legal decision based on what you have and what you know.

As a civilian that has no position of authority in the justice system, I'm not obligated to do that. I can safely choose to side with the law enforcement officer for the time being and have faith that he did what he was supposed to do. Then when evidence arises, I can change my opinion as everything unfolds. That's all I'm trying to say with that.

4 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

I'm not a part of the justice system, though, so it's irrelevant. It's a matter of opinion. Just as BLM supporters like to automatically assume that a Police involved incident is brutality before evidence even surfaces, I would prefer to automatically assume that the officer did nothing wrong until evidence surfaces.

But does that make you any better than BLM? I think not. Both groups are more similar than they are different. Both groups jump and sink like a rock in their own assumptions and usually refuse to change their opinion even when evidence comes out. I'd much prefer that we wait to hear what happened before making assumptions, but I guess that's just me.

3 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

But does that make you any better than BLM? I think not. Both groups are more similar than they are different. Both groups jump and sink like a rock in their own assumptions and usually refuse to change their opinion even when evidence comes out. I'd much prefer that we wait to hear what happened before making assumptions, but I guess that's just me.

 

 

The difference is that BLM declares racism and discrimination with no base evidence of the situation. What I do, is I hold my faith to the high standards that we have set for our law enforcement officers, trust in their training, trust in their service to the community, and temporarily assume that they've done the right thing. We hold officers to standards, and I expect them to meet those standards. That's why I put my faith in them from the start. As I've said, it's simply a matter of opinion because someone can easily say that we don't hold our officers to very high standards.
 

I look at a situation and say, "Ok, these are officers of the law. They have been trained. They have been taught discipline. They may have even had to attend college to get to where they are now. They probably did the right thing, so I will side with them for now".

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by TheDivineHustle

I just have to say that Alton Sterling's rap sheet was longer than a Russian person's name (joke, but it was indeed pretty long) which included child molestation. He had no right to die in the moment because he was not doing anything wrong then, but I am not saddened by the fact he died. The police messed up by not locking him up before when they could have. The man who was killed during the traffic stop was pure stupid though, and he definitely had no reason to die (at least from what I've read).

Typically, police are meant to be the 'knights' and 'saviors' of the society. Also, police should know when to use their firearm, so that's why it's easier to say "woah, let's slow down and look at the facts".

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by tanu1215

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

The difference is that BLM declares racism and discrimination with no base evidence of the situation. What I do, is I hold my faith to the high standards that we have set for our law enforcement officers, trust in their training, trust in their service to the community, and temporarily assume that they've done the right thing. We hold officers to standards, and I expect them to meet those standards. That's why I put my faith in them from the start. As I've said, it's simply a matter of opinion because someone can easily say that we don't hold our officers to very high standards.

Wow, that's a really good response. I think you may have swayed me a bit lol.

Anyway, like I said before; nothing will change, we will stop talking about this by tonight, our facebook icons will change back, and congress will sit around and do nothing as usual.

3 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

Typically, police are meant to be the 'knights' and 'saviors' of the society. Also, police should know when to use their firearm, so that's why it's easier to say "woah, let's slow down and look at the facts".

Yeahhhh but when actions by some of our knights and saviors have caused people to be afraid of those who're supposed to help them, there's a very clear and discinct disconnect between law enforcement and the public.

4 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

Wow, that's a really good response. I think you may have swayed me a bit lol.

Anyway, like I said before; nothing will change, we will stop talking about this by tonight, our facebook icons will change back, and congress will sit around and do nothing as usual.

 

And the American people will continue to sit and take it up the butt. lol

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

And the American people will continue to sit and take it up the butt. lol

Pretty much. it's a sad reality and is more tragic than the mass shootings themselves.

Two more officers are reported to have been shot, one in Georgia and one in Mississippi.

3 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Two more officers are reported to have been shot, one in Georgia and one in Mississippi.

I didn't realize we had declared war on ourselves. Good job America.

And now Orlando PD has received threats.

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by thegreathah

15 minutes ago, Olanov said:

Yeahhhh but when actions by some of our knights and saviors have caused people to be afraid of those who're supposed to help them, there's a very clear and discinct disconnect between law enforcement and the public.

Yeah I get that. It's sad, and many BLM activists will not understand that a few bad apples does not represent the whole. No one should go around saying all cops are racists, and no one should go around saying all blacks commit crimes.

54 minutes ago, tanu1215 said:

Yeah I get that. It's sad, and many BLM activists will not understand that a few bad apples does not represent the whole. No one should go around saying all cops are racists, and no one should go around saying all blacks commit crimes.

So are you then willing to say that a few bad apples in BLM doesn't represent BLM? 

Also, the shooter wasn't a BLM activist as far as we know, so he's not even one of the said bad apples. BLM was also terrorized in this attack

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by Riley24

1 hour ago, Riley24 said:

There's a very reasonable discussion happening here (so far). Happy to see that.

Overall, I can safely say that I've grown to become a more open-minded debater. I don't come from a background with a diversity of various opinions when it comes to political matters. Everyone has always shared the same opinion and believed in the same thing as I grew up. Once I began to hit the internet, more specifically the LCPDFR forums, I was exposed to reality. Not everyone believes in the same thing, and everyone has the right to hold their own opinion. As noted by some amusing incidents that happened with me in the past here, it was challenging for me to grasp the concept of someone holding a different opinion than I did, and them simply disagreeing with me at first. Simply because I've never held an opinion that someone has disagreed with growing up. I think I can say that I've become much better at holding political discussions, and conversing with people that disagree with my beliefs.

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by TheDivineHustle

1 minute ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Overall, I can safely say that I've grown to become a more open-minded debater. I don't come from a background with a diversity of various opinions when it comes to political matters. Everyone has always shared the same opinion and believed in the same thing as I grew up. Once I began to hit the internet, more specifically the LCPDFR forums, I was exposed to reality. Not everyone believes in the same thing, and everyone has the right to hold their own opinion. As noted by some amusing incidents that happened with me in the past here, it was challenging for me to grasp the concept of disagreeing at first. Simply because I've never held an opinion that someone ahs disagreed with growing up. I think I can say that I've become much better at holding political discussions, and conversing with people that disagree with my beliefs.

You definitely have, and thanks for that. I feel like I have too. When we first debated last year it was much less of a dialogue and more of a spitting talking points at each other (on both our parts).