1 minute ago, thegreathah said:

Ha! You're funny. You truly believe that Sharia law will be implemented into Europe? That's like saying if Christians take over there will be law based on the old testament, which obviously has not happened. I'd also like to point out that not all immigrants are muslim or even from the middle east. The same exact argument took place in America when Immigrants were coming in the 1800s, have we collapsed into a third world nation? No. I think it's naive to generalize an entire population after you watch a video that is clearly edited to support your point only. Calling something "racist" because it is racist is not a last resort, you are just failing to see that the message you are trying to convey is, by definition, racist.

I do not believe that Christianity and Islam are comparable. Islam has not had a reformation like many other religions have. The Old Covenant was fulfilled with the New Covenant which was the coming of Jesus Christ. "The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment" (CCC 2053). Understanding the faith is important before criticizing it. The immigrants who came over in the 1800's did not come over with a religious ideology that they wanted to impose on all people. Call it racist, I think many would disagree with you.

Here's another video which explains the issue very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2iBZkODgxA

5 minutes ago, MayhemMercenary said:

I do not believe that Christianity and Islam are comparable. Islam has not had a reformation like many other religions have. The Old Covenant was fulfilled with the New Covenant which was the coming of Jesus Christ. "The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment" (CCC 2053). Understanding the faith is important before criticizing it. The immigrants who came over in the 1800's did not come over with a religious ideology that they wanted to impose on all people. Call it racist, I think many would disagree with you.

Here's another video which explains the issue very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2iBZkODgxA

Ok, I will watch it.

But just know, French Police are now looking for a native of Belgium connected to the attacks, not an immigrant...

I'll put my thoughts here. Christian or muslim? No one cares. This is an unrelated matter here. People got killed because they (terrorists) are CRAZY. Using extremist religious views is just a mean to brainwash them, like sects do (hello scientology). So, if you want to keep talking about christianity or islam, feel free, but I believe it doesn't belong in this topic, because there was nothing religious in what happened. Same thing for "Refugees are the problem blabla". Two of the terrorists that were killed have been indentified and are french. FRENCH. Completely french, born in France. So refugees are, also, an unrelated matter. But sadly, people with narrow-minded views or with a right/extreme-right wing opinion will quickly mix the two.

On topic now. Our president wants the state of emergency to last for 3 months at least. State of emergency as I stated in a previous post means that no public event can occur unless direct derogation, with possible curfews and forbidden areas. Cops are also allowed to investigate as they wish, and to make a search in anyone's house without having the authorization of a judge beforehand. Now I'll be honest, I don't like that. It feels a lot like our democracy turns into a temporary dictatorship.

Edited November 15, 201510 yr by Hystery

3 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

Ok, I will watch it.

But just know, French Police are now looking for a native of Belgium connected to the attacks, not an immigrant...

I hope you know I am not talking about France specifically. And if I was, I would still say that this attack was influenced by Islam. You can't be racist towards a religion.

Edited November 15, 201510 yr by MayhemMercenary

1 minute ago, MayhemMercenary said:

I hope you know I am not talking about France specifically.

I know, but you are using this as an example.

19 hours ago, Schecter004 said:

Well, the only thing i wanted to point out, is the fact, that thousands of innocennt civilian people in Syria, Iraq... die every day the same way! And the attackers are WESTERN nations. That doesn't mean, i advocate the bombing on friday in Paris. My statement has nothing to do with ISIS. They're evil and need to be wiped out. But especially the USA has to think about, if it's necessary to ATTACK foreign countries for oil. Like they did with the Iraq. What would you think if anybody attacks your country, kills your neighbour or friend, mother, father... and maybe rapes your sisiter or wife? War isn't a computer game. It's the worst thing that can happen to you.

Schecter, there are things out there called 'facts'. I suggest you use them when you try and debate someone. "Thousands of innocent civilian people" don't die every day due to allied bombing in Syria or Iraq. The United States is not currently engaged in combat with Iraq. And they don't die the same way. People from Cleveland Ohio aren't running into Syrian markets and blowing themselves up in the name of their god. We're engaging a militia with military force. Unfortunately, the difference between a militia and an actual army is that armies have to follow the rules of war such as the Geneva Convention. Op for militia groups can pose as civilians or hide in houses, or use children as human shields or shoot 8 year olds in the face to gain information from civilians.

The idea that the Untied States is waging war for oil is outdated and wrong, too. We didn't get any price breaks. Under the Bush administration, our gas prices went to record highs of well over $4.00 per gallon. They're now half that country wide. Under the Bush administration the United States imported about 11 million barrels of oil during the last year of his run. Under Obama's presidency we imported 4.5 million, cutting our dependence on foreign oil in more than half.

And again, where do you get information that the U.S. army is actively engaging in raping people? That idea is beyond stupid, it's insulting. Even if any of the slanderous things you say about my country were true, which they aren't, you're in no position to talk about war crimes. You live in a country that was responsible for arguably the worst war crimes in history, and two world wars running. You throw a lot of stones, but you live in a glass house. If you want to believe in wacko theories about why the U.S. does foreign policy the way it does, that's fine; but keep it to yourself. Don't spread that sh*t on here where everyone can read it, because somebody with facts won't always be here to debate you.

 

 

 

18 hours ago, Hystery said:

Ehm, yeah, but again, religious books always tell that people from another religion are the enemy, including christians. What the Quran says is definitely different from what people do. Islam is the second most present religion in France, right after Catholicism. That doesn't mean that the few millions of muslims in France are terrorists. Religion is NOT what we have to blame. Terrorists are guilty. They are simply crazy. Look at it the other way, if a christian was bombing something in the middle east while saying that the white god is the true one and others must die, would the western countries blame christianity? No, they'd say the guy is just nuts. Same goes there. Terrorists, and only terrorists are guilty for their crimes, nothing more, nothing less.

Christians actively practiced the same acts of self sacrifice and conquering of nations up until just a few hundred years ago. The difference is that they stopped and Islam has not stopped. Islam is a newer religion than Christianity is by a few hundred years, so if we are to assume that all religions with violent principles will eventually mature out of them, then that means we're about 300 years away from peace among all of the Islamic tribes currently trying to kill each other, and 300 years before Islamic states stop trying to eradicate the Jews and destroy western ways of living.

What the Qu'ran says does not differ from what people believe, and thereby what they do. You can read it for yourself or do some web browsing if you feel unsafe buying a copy of the Qu'ran (I wouldn't blame you considering recent current events). The Qu'ran and the Hadiths literally and explicitly state the following:

-The heads of non believers should be removed.
-72 unspoiled and lustful women await those that sacrifice themselves for Allah.
-Apostates (people that leave, or wish to leave the religion) should be killed.
-The penalty for being a homosexual is death.
-The penalty for infidelity against a husband is death.
-Women are subservient and that flogging them or otherwise beating them routinely is acceptable.
-Westerners are the enemy.
-Jews are the enemy.
-There will be a day where the earth itself cries out for Jewish blood. Stones and bushes will say to followers of Islam: "There is a Jew hiding behind me, come kill him".
-The penalty for criticizing the religion or drawing a picture of the prophet is death.

With those facts in mind, the following is true of many majority Islam countries as of today:

-It is mainstream belief in most middle eastern or otherwise majority Islamic countries that the punishment for apostasy should be death.
-Women and homosexuals are in constant danger and are immiserated in these nations.
-It is mainstream belief that Islam is the correct religion and that non-believers need to be converted. If they are not willing to convert, death is the appropriate punishment.
-Criticism of the religion should result in violent reprisal, up to and including death.
-The penalty for being gay should be death.
-Martyrdom is a good thing.

These beliefs are confirmed to be the case based on person to person interviews as well as polls & surveys conducted regularly such as the Pew Polls and the Gala Polls. When I say mainstream belief, I mean that these surveys show a "yes, these measures of punishment are appropriate" rating of 70% or higher. Often it is in the 80's or even 90's. These include many countries. Not just the stereotypical ones we associate with intolerance such as Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Palestine; but also countries that are considered "progressive", "moderate" or "friendly/allied" countries such as Saudi Arabia, Tunisia, Indonesia, and Egypt. You can all look this stuff up for yourselves if you don't believe me.

Even allied countries that are under attack from Islamic terrorists have Muslim populations that believe in the same things. More than 80% of British Muslims thought the Danish cartoonists should have been prosecuted. Many countries, including the Untied States have had outcries from Muslim communities demanding that they live under Shariah Law. These beliefs are not exclusive to what part of the globe someone lives in.

Chances are if a white Christian acted the same way; it would not bode well for Christianity. Keep in mind that western Europe is quickly becoming the most agnostic/atheist part of the world. Science and education in general is blossoming there like never before, and as of this year there are a record number of "nones" in America when researched by the Pew Poll group, when referring to the question "What religion do you belong to?". Would one attack mean that Christianity would be over and done with overnight? Absolutely not. Firstly, Christianity has a better reputation in modern times, because people who practiced it stopped crucifying people or burning them alive or stoning them to death a few hundred years ago. Secondly, it still has a stranglehold over a large portion of U.S. Americans, Canadians, South Americans, Africans and Europeans all over the world. Christians have done extreme terrorist attacks before. There were abortion clinic bombings done by people who did not approve of that act by women. Any women; whether the pregnancy was accidental or whether it was rape. They had zero tolerance because they were an extreme sect based off of literal interpretations of the old testament. Christianity is generally not taken literally anymore. Christians do not think slavery is okay, they do not generally think black people should not hold high positions in the church and they do not think that Jesus really wanted to cast people who would not follow him into hell fire for all eternity. People who practice Christianity by and large want to "save" people. Not cut their heads off.

As I said before; to try and pretend that the religion of Islam has nothing to do with the violence we're seeing today from that part of the world is not only dishonest, it's dangerous. These patterns of bombings and shootings and beheadings, and attempts to join ISIS aren't coming out of nowhere, Hystery. Murderers simply murder people. These attacks are part of a loudly declared holy war. I don't know what part of the word 'holy' is lost upon people. Islam is a belief system presented to these people in the Muslim world as children. They grow up with it, and they know nothing else. Even as they grow older, some countries don't even translate books from other countries, and they are so poor that the end up teaching only one book in school: The Qu'ran.

Beliefs influence behavior. Religion pisses a lot of people off (including me, I don't like any religion, not just Islam) but atheists aren't banding together to suicide bomb the hookah cafes Muslim people visit in various countries. Lastly, let me be clear here: Nobody suffers under the problems with these ideas more than other Muslims do. They have to live with each other, we don't. But despite the co-habitation of the people who take the religion seriously and those that don't, nothing has been changing. And without pressure from the more moderate practicers of the religion to adapt to the 21st century, the conflict between Islamic beliefs and and western ways of living are swiftly becoming a kettle ready to boil over.

 

11 hours ago, Hystery said:

I'll put my thoughts here. Christian or muslim? No one cares. This is an unrelated matter here. People got killed because they (terrorists) are CRAZY. Using extremist religious views is just a mean to brainwash them, like sects do (hello scientology). So, if you want to keep talking about christianity or islam, feel free, but I believe it doesn't belong in this topic, because there was nothing religious in what happened. Same thing for "Refugees are the problem blabla". Two of the terrorists that were killed have been indentified and are french. FRENCH. Completely french, born in France. So refugees are, also, an unrelated matter. But sadly, people with narrow-minded views or with a right/extreme-right wing opinion will quickly mix the two.

The gunmen at the rock concert in France were heard muttering about Syria and Islam prior to using their weapons. The person outside the soccer stadium that blew himself up was reported as saying "Allah is great" before blowing himself up. It is being investigated that at least one the French citizens that helped in these attacks arrived in France because they posed as refugees from a Muslim country; using it as an easy way to get into the country before carrying out their attack. Stop trying to remove the ideological motives for this. You're being overly politically correct by trying to protect religious terrorism under the pretense of labeling these people as "just crazy".

*Note to moderators: If you'd like to merge my last three posts, feel free. The quote feature doesn't work very well for me. I often cant write at all.*

Edited November 16, 201510 yr by unr3al

11 hours ago, unr3al said:

You're being overly politically correct by trying to protect religious terrorism under the pretense of labeling these people as "just crazy".

Alright. Let's think about it two minutes. What do they want, by planning and doing terrorist attacks? They want to bring fear. In addition to fear, if people think the way you do, an amalgam "Muslim/Islam = terrorist" will plague the population (EDIT: as a proof of what I'm saying, some mosques in France got tagged with swastikas and pork got dropped in front of the doors). And it'll work, because fear is an uncontrollable emotion, people will be scared for their loved ones and will react aggressively towards where they are pointed to. As a result, the western population will blame muslims for their religion. Muslims will feel threatened, persecuted, unable to practice their own religion without being judged or pointed out, deprivated of their freedom of belief. And THIS, this very thing, will become an argument of recruitment for ISIS, a golden occasion to gain new recruits and radicalize them, using their feeling of persecution to twist their minds and make them believe western countries are the problem. Radicalization amongst muslims will raise, and at the end, more terrorist attacks will happen. That's the ISIS recruitment tactic.

Well I'm telling you, I am NOT going to fall for this. Muslims in France are at 99% completely harmless. Sure, they could integrate themselves a bit better in french society, but at least they are productive citizens. Their religion is not the cause of why some people blow themselves up. People blow themselves up because they are just CRAZY, and freil of mind, easily manipulated. All muslims of France, all muslims in the world, and all muslims leader made it clear that they condemn what happened, and that this is NOT the Islam religion they are teaching to their believers.

I'll say it again, and I'll repeat it as much as needed, religion is not the problem. Blaming religion will only result in dividing the population and make us weaker. Religion is not the problem. It's not. The madness of some humans is. Muslims of France are french. They defend the values of our republic as much as other citizens do. And I won't blame their religion for the acts of a few completely retarded terrorists. You say Islam is a violent religion, I say look in the streets of France. As I said, Islam is the SECOND most PRESENT religion in France. Do you see muslims cutting other peoples throats in the streets? No. Do you see muslims insulting other people for not being muslim? Heck no. We all live together, including muslims, because what the Quran says is different from what they do in their everyday life. The same way christians and catholics are living differently from what the Bible tells them. Quran is just a book. A book can be interpreted in many ways. The real people interprete it with a message of peace and respect, the crazy fuckers interprete it with a message of war. And here we have it again. Craziness. That's what caused those horrible attacks. Not Islam. Not muslims. Just a few completely twisted people, manipulated by ISIS.

Edited November 16, 201510 yr by Hystery

2 hours ago, Hystery said:

Alright. Let's think about it two minutes. What do they want, by planning and doing terrorist attacks? They want to bring fear. In addition to fear, if people think the way you do, an amalgam "Muslim/Islam = terrorist" will plague the population. And it'll work, because fear is an uncontrollable emotion, people will be scared for their loved ones and will react aggressively towards where they are pointed to. As a result, the western population will blame muslims for their religion. Muslims will feel threatened, persecuted, unable to practice their own religion without being judged or pointed out, deprivated of their freedom of belief. And THIS, this very thing, will become an argument of recruitment for ISIS, a golden occasion to gain new recruits and radicalize them, using their feeling of persecution to twist their minds and make them believe western countries are the problem. Radicalization amongst muslims will raise, and at the end, more terrorist attacks will happen. That's the ISIS recruitment tactic.

Well I'm telling you, I am NOT going to fall for this. Muslims in France are at 99% completely harmless. Sure, they could integrate themselves a bit better in french society, but at least they are productive citizens. Their religion is not the cause of why some people blow themselves up. People blow themselves up because they are just CRAZY, and freil of mind, easily manipulated. All muslims of France, all muslims in the world, and all muslims leader made it clear that they condemn what happened, and that this is NOT the Islam religion they are teaching to their believers.

I'll say it again, and I'll repeat it as much as needed, religion is not the problem. Blaming religion will only result in dividing the population and make us weaker. Religion is not the problem. It's not. The madness of some humans is. Muslims of France are french. They defend the values of our republic as much as other citizens do. And I won't blame their religion for the acts of a few completely retarded terrorists. You say Islam is a violent religion, I say look in the streets of France. As I said, Islam is the SECOND most PRESENT religion in France. Do you see muslims cutting other peoples throats in the streets? No. Do you see muslims insulting other people for not being muslim? Heck no. We all live together, including muslims, because what the Quran says is different from what they do in their everyday life. The same way christians and catholics are living differently from what the Bible tells them. Quran is just a book. A book can be interpreted in many ways. The real people interprete it with a message of peace and respect, the crazy fuckers interprete it with a message of war. And here we have it again. Craziness. That's what caused those horrible attacks. Not Islam. Not muslims. Just a few completely twisted people, manipulated by ISIS.

You're doing exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. You're confusing the word Muslim with the word Islam. Islam is not a race, it's a religion. The issues that drive this terrorism are not driven by Muslims as people, it's driven by their ideology. Western society (with America probably being the biggest offender) conflates any criticism of the docrtine of Islam with bigotry and hate; which is not true at all. It's simply an easy cop-out. The reason Muslims in France are generally non-violent is because they're brought up in a multicultural society. Not a mono-cultural one. When you're indoctrinated with something at birth, and you're never exposed to other points of view; you are left with no other choice but to believe what you are told. France is a modern country where killings in the name of theology is not okay under any circumstances. This is the same reason why the Muslim community in England has to settle for trying to prosecute the Danish cartoonists instead of killing them, and why America won't allow Muslim communities to live under Shariah law, and why the Muslims in Australia have to riot instead of crucifying people. Because the majority non-Muslim population in those countries won't tolerate it.

You have to understand that the actions taken by terrorists are not extreme if you read the Qu'ran and take it literally, which many Muslim people do, because they treat the religion the same way they always have. Islam has not evolved over time to devalue the passages about how to treat nonbelievers or people who otherwise violate the values that are laid out in the Qu'ran. The Qu'ran emphasizes that martyrdom is a good thing and the religion needs to be spread to all corners of the earth, by force if required. There's a reason why Osama Bin Laden declared this a holy war. He didn't say 'holy' for fun. Ask yourself where do these ideas of self sacrifice come from? These ideas don't come from nowhere. Murderers in America usually simply pick up hitch hikers and kill them, or kill a spouse in a crime of passion, or do random shootings with little to no inspiration; and generally they do not wish to be caught. Islamic terrorists have no intention of killing over a prolonged period. Their goal is to take out as many people as possible and kill themselves in the process to acquire all that was promised to them in the Qu'ran and the Hadiths. These attacks don't come out of nowhere, otherwise they wouldn't be directed specifically at western countries and Israel. If we are to talk about ISIS, presuming the population estimate of around 20,000 soldiers is accurate; that's not a few twisted people. If we are to go by measurable facts as to what most Muslims believe (martyrdom, the penalty for apostasy or criticism of the religion or being homosexual is death); several hundred million people is not a few twisted people.

You're side stepping the issue of beliefs by just writing off these people as crazy. They aren't. They're acting on beliefs they are taught from the time they are raised. People need to talk openly and honestly about this, and in 2015 we should be able to criticize bad ideas. Religion should not be taboo.

Edited November 16, 201510 yr by unr3al

6 minutes ago, unr3al said:

You're doing exactly what I said in my first post in this thread. You're confusing the word Muslim with the word Islam. Islam is not a race, it's a religion.

Ehm, no, I am not confusing them. Islam = religion, muslim = person actively practicing Islam as a religion. But admitting all what you said is ultimately the truth (which I don't think it is, but let's admit it for the sake of the reasoning), what is the solution? Going into a crusade against Islam? Slaughtering muslims simply because they are muslims? Because with that way to see things, I hardly see another outcome.

14 minutes ago, Hystery said:

Ehm, no, I am not confusing them. Islam = religion, muslim = person actively practicing Islam as a religion. But admitting all what you said is ultimately the truth (which I don't think it is, but let's admit it for the sake of the reasoning), what is the solution? Going into a crusade against Islam? Slaughtering muslims simply because they are muslims? Because with that way to see things, I hardly see another outcome.

No, the best we can do for the moment is to aid those few Muslim activists that wish to reform the religion by giving them support and protection against the many Muslims that would like to kill them, and giving more mainstream media attention to people who analyze these religions by studying them and doing social commentary and live debates on them. People like Maajid Nawaz, who recently co-wrote a book with Sam Harris as an open dialogue about the faith. People like Salman Rushdie or Richard Dawkins. Beyond supporting those who wish to reform the religion, another helpful tool would be knowledge. Getting these people more books, internet access and improving the quality of their schools will increase the chances of young Muslims getting a good education that may help them to question why those who are doing the killing are going about it with such fervor and a sense of vindication. ISIS is using the internet and social media in general with great effectiveness, and the western world needs to pick up on that and wage an effective PR campaign of their own.

Ideally I'd like to see all religions go away due to lack of interest and increasing atheism, rather than banning them. We are on our way there, as I pointed out in last nights posts. But before we can disassociate ourselves from religion, we first need to devalue the literal principles it teaches. Christianity, Judaism, Catholicism, etc. have done that, and that's why people are not stoned to death for not observing the Sabbath, and why westerners no longer keep slaves. That's why scientific breakthroughs are coming quick and often in the western world, and why it's okay to make religious jokes (against most religions). Islam has not gone through such changes yet. These are not overnight solutions, but if we want the win the war on terror, we need to win the war of ideas.

Edited November 16, 201510 yr by unr3al

I was watching the game and thought it would be a relaxed evening..... looking back on it the narrator knew exactly what happened at the first explosion. Very sad...

I'm just waiting for it to hit germany... (or any other country in that matter)

Bomb all ISIS 

#KillEmAll #KickA*sNow #TakeNamesLater #NoMercy #NoSurvivors

A video that made me smile after those dark hours:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5NvFCzTusM

 

 

Occident must make the total war to ISIS and those who threat us, and give the refuges an opportunity to rebuild their countries, but let that communities stay here for a long time is a serious problem. Its not a racist question, I have friends from morocco and they are totally integrated in the spanish community, and all of them are better persons than others I meet, the problem is not the color, the problem is not where they come from, the real problem is if they will accept the occidental society style of live and integrate themselves on it.

Thats my opinion.

The manhunt continues. This morning at 4:20AM, the men of the RAID started an operation in a city near Paris. 7 people suspected to be related to the attacks of Friday have been arrested, 2 others have died, blowing themselves up. 5 members of the RAID team have been injured during the operation.

9 hours ago, Hystery said:

The manhunt continues. This morning at 4:20AM, the men of the RAID started an operation in a city near Paris. 7 people suspected to be related to the attacks of Friday have been arrested, 2 others have died, blowing themselves up. 5 members of the RAID team have been injured during the operation.

The FBI issued an alert the other day that ISIS is confirmed to be setting up some kind of attack in the U.S., although there is no specific target and date at this time. Germany supposedly also believes they are under threat. United States President Barack Obama privately met at a small table with Russian President Vladimir Putin the other day, prior to official business for the summit with all major European countries. The contents of their conversation is unknown.

This is a pretty old topic now but i have my word to say, how can westerners say that refugees ruin europe , yes they do but who created the problems that made them flee.

The american invasion in IRAQ in 2003 destroyed the middle east , all for the sake of Democracy , i say if democracy is going to ruin lives , then stop spreadin the damn thing , its not because it worked for the US , Canada and other countries that its going to work for everyone.

You people blame Islam for being a violent religion , i admit as a muslim that some parts of the Quran are a bit extreme but hey the bible is not the sanest book either , just stop all this bickering about refugees and islam , just because they are muslims doesnt mean that they are terrorists , just because you live in the US you have to be a fat and lazy dude on his couch all day.

And seriously stop blaming muslims for the mistakes of those crazy lunatics that call themselves ISIS.

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

This is a pretty old topic now but i have my word to say, how can westerners say that refugees ruin europe , yes they do

You just said it yourself.
 

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

The american invasion in IRAQ in 2003 destroyed the middle east ,

No, it further destabilized the middle east, which has been a sh*t show for hundreds of years. Fighting only happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

i say if democracy is going to ruin lives , then stop spreadin the damn thing , its not because it worked for the US , Canada and other countries that its going to work for everyone.

That's not really what the war was about. The opportunity for democracy for an oppressed country was merely a selling point for the war to the U.S. citizens. There were indeed a lot of people suffering underneath Saddam's rule, but hindsight shows that we were better off letting Iraqis kill each other and everybody else under his supervision rather than without it. It's a lose-lose situation. They say politics isn't about the best decision. It's about the least worst. The presidents job is to choose the least worst option for each decision every day. George Bush and his administration chose incorrectly. And now we're picking up the pieces.

 

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

You people blame Islam for being a violent religion , i admit as a muslim that some parts of the Quran are a bit extreme but hey the bible is not the sanest book either

I will grant you that the worst books every written are in the Old Testament. The difference is that the acts of violence in it are no longer practiced in the world of Christianity or Judaism.
 

 

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

just because they are muslims doesnt mean that they are terrorists , just because you live in the US you have to be a fat and lazy dude on his couch all day.

Nobody's saying that all Muslims are terrorists. If anything that statement looks more bigoted than anything else that's been posted on this forum. Criticizing Islam brings baggage with it. Besides the threats of death you may receive, non-violent people might from time to time try to accuse you of being racist. The words Muslim and Islam mean two different things. The first is an ethnic group, the second is a religion. I don't think anyone here has a problem with Muslims. The only person who seems vocal about that sort of thing in the media these days is Donald Trump. What the entire world, including the Muslim community itself, has a problem with is the values of the 2nd largest religion in the world being taken literally by a portion of Muslims that numbers in the millions that is causing a lot of death and destruction all over the planet via terror attacks, and continually immiserating, harassing and killing women, homosexuals, westerners and people of other faiths on a daily basis in their own countries.

 

15 hours ago, OfficerBrianOtoole said:

And seriously stop blaming muslims for the mistakes of those crazy lunatics that call themselves ISIS.

The fact that you call them 'mistakes' is a problem in itself. Is it not fair to call killing hundreds of people (in the case of the Paris attacks) or thousands of people (in the case of America's 9/11 attacks) terror or mass murder? Those aren't mistakes. I'm glad you believe that the members of ISIS are lunatics, but you and other people who wish to apologize for the other followers of Islam need to understand, and then be honest with the fact that the interpretation of the Qu'ran they are preaching is not far fetched or distorted. It's a very straight forward reading of it. They simply don't disregard violent passages that other people who practice Islam do.

 

Let's not bring in the conspiracy theories. They do nothing but provoke hatred and stupid flame wars.

All responses regarding the conspiracy theory thus far have been removed, anyone who continues this will receive a warning with possible sanctions against your account.
 

http://ivn.us/2015/11/19/isis-islamic-matters/