http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43574249

 

Deputy Brewer noticed him with "his pants around his ankles, talking to himself and hitting vehicles as they passed by".

 

"Fearing for his safety, the deputy discharged his duty weapon, striking Thomas once in the chest," said Houston police, which is leading the investigation.

 

Yeah....no.  The guy was unarmed with his pants to his ankles, there was clearly no weapons that could hurt the officer. I get this guy was acting erratic and violent, but shooting him just because he doesn't listen to you is not how you handle things.

 

Mr Thomas' family say he suffered from depression after his children died.

 

According to relatives, Mr Thomas' partner murdered his two children in 2016.

 

Either he was hoping for suicide by cop, or his children's death broke him mentally.  Either way, the officer could've handled it a lot better.

 

Deputy Brewer, who had a Taser with him, has been placed on administrative leave as police investigate the shooting.

 

What is with a lot of LEOs nowadays rushing to only lethal force?  You had a fucking taser, I almost guarantee that would've subdued him.  (It says nothing about him being on drugs, so I'm assuming he wasn't)

Seems cops in the States are too eager to go to deadly force right away these days. There was absolutely no need for it, this guy was unarmed and non-combative towards the officer, he could have been subdued with a nightstick, pepper spray or a taser, but no, now he's dead.

It's incidents like these that only lead to more mistrust of law enforcement.

This may be a justifiable shooting.  The man continued to walk torwards the officer even after he was commanded about 10 times to get on the ground.  It is clear that the man was mentally unstable, at least at the moment. 

 

You cannot forget that fist, feet, arms and legs are weapons and that tazers do not work all of the time.  By attempting to transition from his firearm to his tazer could of cost the officer his life or he could of suffered bodily injury.  

 

You do NOT have to be on drugs to be a danger.  

You do NOT have to have a weapon to be a threat.

 

Just because the man was non combative at the beginning does not mean that he would have not been.  He was moving torward the officer at a decent speed and you must understand that at 25 feet, from someone, it only takes a second to reach them.

 

And the officer was applying cpr at the end of the video so I doubt that he was a trigger happy American cop that wanted to murder people.  I wonder what the 911 call was about leading the officer to show up?  When the officer did show up, the suspect was being somewhat combative torward a civilian.

 

Pepper spray, night sticks, tazers, amd teddy bear's are not reliable solutions to stop a threat.  He was a threat.

4 minutes ago, ToeBius said:

This may be a justifiable shooting.  The man continued to walk torwards the officer even after he was commanded about 10 times to get on the ground.  It is clear that the man was mentally unstable, at least at the moment. 

 

You cannot forget that fist, feet, arms and legs are weapons and that tazers do not work all of the time.  By attempting to transition from his firearm to his tazer could of cost the officer his life or he could of suffered bodily injury.  

 

You do NOT have to be on drugs to be a danger.  

You do NOT have to have a weapon to be a threat.

 

Just because the man was non combative at the beginning does not mean that he would have not been.  He was moving torward the officer at a decent speed and you must understand that at 25 feet, from someone, it only takes a second to reach them.

 

And the officer was applying cpr at the end of the video so I doubt that he was a trigger happy American cop that wanted to murder people.  I wonder what the 911 call was about leading the officer to show up?  When the officer did show up, the suspect was being somewhat combative torward a civilian.

 

Pepper spray, night sticks, tazers, amd teddy bear's are not reliable solutions to stop a threat.  He was a threat.

For anyone who hasn't, watch the video. The officer arrives at 0:31 and the action stops only 20 seconds later.

 

That dude with his pants down was walking slower than I walk when I'm at the grocery store. It would be a fair argument to say, "well we can't see whether or not the guy attacked the officer," but to say that shooting him was justified just doesn't sound right to me. By the fifth time that the officer tells him to stop the officer should have used a taser, and if the taser doesn't work maybe fire that one shot. There weren't any signs that the officer had intentions to disable the suspect through non-lethal means. Can you imagine how many people would be shot dead if every officer shot at someone who was in a little fight? Seriously, I've seen school fights worse than this and the kids don't even get tased, let alone shot.

 

I will agree with you though, I don't think the officer had intent to kill; he only fired one shot. However, that shot could have been fired into his leg, or even better: a taser into his chest instead of a bullet. 

48 minutes ago, theninja35 said:

For anyone who hasn't, watch the video. The officer arrives at 0:31 and the action stops only 20 seconds later.

 

That dude with his pants down was walking slower than I walk when I'm at the grocery store. It would be a fair argument to say, "well we can't see whether or not the guy attacked the officer," but to say that shooting him was justified just doesn't sound right to me. By the fifth time that the officer tells him to stop the officer should have used a taser, and if the taser doesn't work maybe fire that one shot. There weren't any signs that the officer had intentions to disable the suspect through non-lethal means. Can you imagine how many people would be shot dead if every officer shot at someone who was in a little fight? Seriously, I've seen school fights worse than this and the kids don't even get tased, let alone shot.

 

I will agree with you though, I don't think the officer had intent to kill; he only fired one shot. However, that shot could have been fired into his leg, or even better: a taser into his chest instead of a bullet. 

I did not say that this shooting was justified, I said that it may be justified.

On the walking slower than you in the store argument, like I said when someone is 25 feet from you it takes only a second for them to dash to you.  So if the officer attempted to transition then it would of been a great opportunity to charge the officer and catch him off gaurd.

 

On the tazer option, would you want to trust your life on something that only work's part of the time?  Especially when someone is right up on you? 

I don't want to get into the leg argument but I will.  It is a stupid argument.  When you shoot someone, you aim for center mass. You never attempt to try and shoot for a small target period.  Tunnel vision, increased amount of stress does alot to someone.

 

Ill get some link's to you explaining why people are hesitant to use tazers and also don't try to shoot people in the leg.  Getting in a fight is not ideal.  

 

It is far more understood as to why people do what they do by people that have been in this situation.

 

I personally will let you know that it is not like the movie's.

When an officer has to react in a split second in a moment of rush, I could understand that said officer has to take a decision quick, and it could be the wrong one because he had little to no time to think about it.

 

In this case, the officer had plenty of time to choose what to do. The guy was not threatening. He wasn't running towards the officer. He had a taser at his belt. He could have used it, he had all the time in the world to do it. He prefered to shoot the poor sod down, rather than try to de-escalate the situation. He's undefendable.

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by Hystery

The first thought to go through the deputy's head was probably "this man is on drugs." Whether he really was or not doesn't matter, it very clearly appears that way. It is a fact that people on certain drugs will not be affected by a taser. We don't know what the original call was, we don't know if dispatch advised he might be violent, we don't know what happened off camera. We don't know enough to make any sort of judgement.

 

The "premeditated murder" thing is a bit ridiculous, too.

 

Edit: it appears there was no call, he just pulled up on the scene. Which makes it an even bigger unknown - he has no idea what was going on aside from some man with his pants around his ankles acting crazy.

2 hours ago, ToeBius said:

This may be a justifiable shooting.  The man continued to walk torwards the officer even after he was commanded about 10 times to get on the ground.  It is clear that the man was mentally unstable, at least at the moment. 

 

You cannot forget that fist, feet, arms and legs are weapons and that tazers do not work all of the time.  By attempting to transition from his firearm to his tazer could of cost the officer his life or he could of suffered bodily injury.  

 

You do NOT have to be on drugs to be a danger.  

You do NOT have to have a weapon to be a threat.

 

Just because the man was non combative at the beginning does not mean that he would have not been.  He was moving torward the officer at a decent speed and you must understand that at 25 feet, from someone, it only takes a second to reach them.

 

And the officer was applying cpr at the end of the video so I doubt that he was a trigger happy American cop that wanted to murder people.  I wonder what the 911 call was about leading the officer to show up?  When the officer did show up, the suspect was being somewhat combative torward a civilian.

 

Pepper spray, night sticks, tazers, amd teddy bear's are not reliable solutions to stop a threat.  He was a threat.

 

There's no "may" about it.  The deputy didn't even TRY to taser him, and the article mentions nothing about drugs, so more than likely it'd of worked.  Further, are you trying to tell me body parts being weapons are justifiable reason to shoot an unmarmed, pantsless man?  The whole "fearing for safety" thing is fucking garbage.  Try tasing him, if that doesn't work, THEN lets try something else.  This coward went straight to lethal force, and my entire point with this thread is just how common this is becoming for American police officers.  "Lets not try the hard work of tasing or getting our hands dirty and getting in a fight, lets just shoot'em.  Makes it easier on us."

Saw it on liveleak days ago, clean shoot. You don't just refuse clear commands and continue to menacingly walk towards and armed officer. He wanted to die and his wish was granted. Good riddance to another criminal POS in the States. We have a lot of these guys that need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Jail and prison is a joke to them. Give em' lead. I'm sure Al Sharpton and the rest of the BLM cop murdering brigade will be complaining soon enough.

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by LCPD McGee

1 hour ago, LCPD McGee said:

Saw it on liveleak days ago, clean shoot. You don't just refuse clear commands and continue to menacingly walk towards and armed officer. Good riddence to another criminal POS in the States. We have a lot of these guys that need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Jail and prison is a joke to them. Give em' lead. I'm sure Al Sharpton and the rest of the BLM cop murdering brigade will be complaining soon enough.

 

So ignoring commands from an officer and walking towards him unarmed is justified?  There are SEVERAL factors to take into this, one of which is mental state.  It's almost 100% this guy was going for suicide by cop. Not only is that common, from what I've read, Houston has a huge problem with ignoring and treating the mentally ill like garbage. Regardless if he was walking towards the officer, he was unarmed.  There is zero justification in shooting him.  Now if he was CHARGING towards the officer, that might be a different story entirely, but it's not the case.  WALKING towards one, menacingly or not, it not justified. There was PLENTY of time for the deputy to get his taser, or take out his baton.  You know, the thing LEOs are given as self defense? 

 

You know what?  Lets forget tasers, batons, mace, etc.  Just give'em a gun and tell them to shoot at the first sign of resisting arrest. 

10 minutes ago, Giordano said:

 

So ignoring commands from an officer and walking towards him unarmed is justified?  There are SEVERAL factors to take into this, one of which is mental state.  It's almost 100% this guy was going for suicide by cop. Not only is that common, from what I've read, Houston has a huge problem with ignoring and treating the mentally ill like garbage. Regardless if he was walking towards the officer, he was unarmed.  There is zero justification in shooting him.  Now if he was CHARGING towards the officer, that might be a different story entirely, but it's not the case.  WALKING towards one, menacingly or not, it not justified. There was PLENTY of time for the deputy to get his taser, or take out his baton.  You know, the thing LEOs are given as self defense? 

 

You know what?  Lets forget tasers, batons, mace, etc.  Just give'em a gun and tell them to shoot at the first sign of resisting arrest. 

 

LEO's are not mental health professionals, nor should they be trained to be. They are already mandating Narcan training programs and medical aid systems, the last thing we need is our cops to be giving therapy lessons during a situation such as this. And just because someone is unarmed does not mean they pose no threat. I have seen plenty of cases where a suspect gets close enough to grab a holster and or take down the cop and initiate a beating severe enough to render him unconscious. And once your unconscious, your gun is taken and your executed with your own service weapon. Once again it's another agree to disagree situation. Let me guess you think Alton Sterling was a good and honest young man who was about to turn his life around and start going to Church and School. Lol. Good stuff. Unfortunately unlike in France and Britain the Cops here have ACTUAL crime to fight and criminals who are actually dangerous. We don't have the luxury of having our cops be unarmed passive white shirted paper pushers.  Here is an example of what your describe to be a " Unjustified " shooting. Looks clean to me as well. Just because you are unarmed does not mean you are not going to be shot and killed. 

 

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uBaV3_1520922918

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by LCPD McGee

1 hour ago, Giordano said:

 

There's no "may" about it.  The deputy didn't even TRY to taser him, and the article mentions nothing about drugs, so more than likely it'd of worked.  Further, are you trying to tell me body parts being weapons are justifiable reason to shoot an unmarmed, pantsless man?  The whole "fearing for safety" thing is fucking garbage.  Try tasing him, if that doesn't work, THEN lets try something else.  This coward went straight to lethal force, and my entire point with this thread is just how common this is becoming for American police officers.  "Lets not try the hard work of tasing or getting our hands dirty and getting in a fight, lets just shoot'em.  Makes it easier on us."

If someone is kicking you or hitting you, then yes that is some kind of weapon.  And it does not make it easier on anyone when a life is taken.  You will suffer severely with the decision threw ptsd, news outlets, vigilantes.  It is sad that people loose there lives but you cannot ask someone to attempt to use something that may or may not work in order to stop a person that you have no idea what is up with them.

 

It is not a wise idea under any circumstance to get into a fight with someone.  If you think that "hey I'll be a man and just fist fight like a man"  then wait for that 1 punch or kick to come in and kill you and the suspect to go free.  I have seen it many times of that one hit, head bunt, or kick, knocking out, severely injuring, or killing someone.  

 

So yes this MAY be justified giving the information that we have.

 

 

Anytime I hear (not this case specifically) "why didn't he use a taser?" or "why doesn't he shoot for the legs?" Donut was a police officer and SWAT officer. He knows what he talks about.
 

 

 

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by Mikofiticus

12 hours ago, Illusionyary said:

Seems cops in the States are too eager to go to deadly force right away these days. 

 

Makes sense considering that more Police officers are dying in America than US Soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq per year. 2016 also saw an increase in the number of Police killed. As long as my law enforcement officers are safe and the general public is safe, I'd call it a win.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-killed-line-of-duty-increase-2016/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/29/police-officer-shooting-deaths-on-rise-in-2016-ami/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/05/police-officer-deaths-on-duty-have-jumped-nearly-25-percent-in-2017.html

http://www.newsweek.com/police-line-duty-deaths-increase-2017-636064

http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/ByYear.aspx

Quote

It's incidents like these that only lead to more mistrust of law enforcement.

Actually, Americans increasingly support the Police. Respect for Police has actually reached it's highest in American history.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/196610/americans-respect-police-surges.aspx

http://news.gallup.com/poll/192701/confidence-police-recovers-last-year-low.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=tile_4&g_campaign=item_196610&g_content=U.S.%20Confidence%20in%20Police%20Recovers%20From%20Last%20Year's%20Low

5 hours ago, Giordano said:

There's no "may" about it.  The deputy didn't even TRY to taser him, and the article mentions nothing about drugs, so more than likely it'd of worked.  Further, are you trying to tell me body parts being weapons are justifiable reason to shoot an unmarmed, pantsless man?  The whole "fearing for safety" thing is fucking garbage.  Try tasing him, if that doesn't work, THEN lets try something else.  This coward went straight to lethal force, and my entire point with this thread is just how common this is becoming for American police officers.  "Lets not try the hard work of tasing or getting our hands dirty and getting in a fight, lets just shoot'em.  Makes it easier on us."

6

I don't quite understand how him using lethal force makes him a coward. I know that I certainly won't be in mourning.

Edited March 29, 20188 yr by TheDivineHustle

52 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Makes sense considering that more Police officers are dying in America than US Soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq per year. 2016 also saw an increase in the number of Police killed. As long as my law enforcement officers are safe and the general public is safe, I'd call it a win.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-killed-line-of-duty-increase-2016/

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/29/police-officer-shooting-deaths-on-rise-in-2016-ami/

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/07/05/police-officer-deaths-on-duty-have-jumped-nearly-25-percent-in-2017.html

http://www.newsweek.com/police-line-duty-deaths-increase-2017-636064

http://www.icasualties.org/OEF/ByYear.aspx

Actually, Americans increasingly support the Police. Respect for Police has actually reached it's highest in American history.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/196610/americans-respect-police-surges.aspx

http://news.gallup.com/poll/192701/confidence-police-recovers-last-year-low.aspx?g_source=link_NEWSV9&g_medium=tile_4&g_campaign=item_196610&g_content=U.S.%20Confidence%20in%20Police%20Recovers%20From%20Last%20Year's%20Low

I don't quite understand how him using lethal force makes him a coward. I know that I certainly won't be in mourning.

 

You do realize polls are a shitty source for getting opinions, right?  Plenty of people just vote either or and don't actually think about it, or I don't know, troll?

 

So you're telling me that if an unarmed man with his pants around his ankles ran towards you, you'd shoot him without a second thought?  I legitimately don't understand how you justify shooting a man in this instance.  So if I ran towards a cop, I should be shot as well, right?  I mean, the cop doesn't know me, I could be trying to tackle him, right?

 

American cops should not be going to lethal force before all else UNLESS the situation calls for it!  Man with a gun?  Man with a weapon who is attacking you?  Yes and yes, but a man with his pants to his ankles that is WALKING towards you? It would've taken mere SECONDS to get a taser and well-la, this situation would't really of been news because the man would've been subdued and arrested.

 

Maybe I should become a cop so I can avoid dealing with all situations and just shoot people when I feel "threatened".

1 hour ago, TheDivineHustle said:

As long as my law enforcement officers are safe and the general public is safe, I'd call it a win.

He was the General Public, I wouldn't say it was a win for him, y'know... cos he's dead.

 

5 hours ago, LCPD McGee said:

Saw it on liveleak days ago, clean shoot. You don't just refuse clear commands and continue to menacingly walk towards and armed officer. He wanted to die and his wish was granted. Good riddance to another criminal POS in the States. We have a lot of these guys that need to be wiped off the face of the earth. Jail and prison is a joke to them. Give em' lead. I'm sure Al Sharpton and the rest of the BLM cop murdering brigade will be complaining soon enough.

Ah, so... if you don't follow commands, you are all good to be shot dead. As for the these guys statement, what exactly do you mean - I really don't see how someone can be that sickening to condone the murder of a man for not following the orders he provides, seems pretty unjustified to me. 

31 minutes ago, Giordano said:

It would've taken mere SECONDS to get a taser and well-la, this situation would't really of been news because the man would've been subdued and arrested.

I don't know about that department, but a lot of departments don't roll with tasers. Mostly due to money, but some departments don't have the money for OC spray or tasers. But that's a whole other can of worms.

 

31 minutes ago, Giordano said:

Maybe I should become a cop so I can avoid dealing with all situations and just shoot people when I feel "threatened".

That is quite possibly the most broken, ludicrous, rash, dense and insensitive thing I've read on this website. Yeah, this shoot might be a bad one, but everything in that sentence. YEESH.

 

EDIT: Finally watching the video, the actual shoot takes place off camera. We'd have to hope they have body cameras, but I bet they don't. So we don't exactly know what happened. Witnesses can only be so reliable. It's hard to say.

Edited March 30, 20188 yr by Mikofiticus

2 hours ago, TheDivineHustle said:

I don't quite understand how him using lethal force makes him a coward. I know that I certainly won't be in mourning.

It doesn't make him a coward. But just because we won't be mourning for the guy doesn't mean we should let our officers poorly handle situations. If the officer who arrested the Parkland shooter executed the guy, I doubt many would be in mourning, but that doesn't mean we should condone horrible police work....

 

I saw a video of a cop basically get jumped by a family of mexicans, one of them even slapped his taser out of his hand. Dude didn't fire one shot even though he could've, and should've shot 3 of them. This guy shoots a druggie with his pants around his ankles. That's not acceptable. 

Edited March 30, 20188 yr by Black Jesus

2 hours ago, Ben said:

He was the General Public, I wouldn't say it was a win for him, y'know... cos he's dead.

1

Well, obviously it's not a win for him because he's dead. That's his own problem, society will continue to move forward without him. I'm just glad that the officer is safe and no other innocent person was harmed.

2 hours ago, Giordano said:

Maybe I should become a cop so I can avoid dealing with all situations and just shoot people when I feel "threatened".

 

I encourage you to do exactly that, and the second you pull the trigger on someone you'll know exactly how these officers feel nowadays. I support the Police, and so does America. I encourage you to come apply for Baltimore City Police Department.

Quote

You do realize polls are a shitty source for getting opinions, right?  Plenty of people just vote either or and don't actually think about it, or I don't know, troll?

Under that logic, nothing is a reliable source for anything. I'll patiently wait for you to provide me with some better sources.

Quote

So you're telling me that if an unarmed man with his pants around his ankles ran towards you, you'd shoot him without a second thought?  I legitimately don't understand how you justify shooting a man in this instance.  So if I ran towards a cop, I should be shot as well, right?  I mean, the cop doesn't know me, I could be trying to tackle him, right?

 

Yes. If you run towards me I will shoot you, and I'll shoot you even as a regular civilian and not a law enforcement officer. Does that mean that it was the best option? No, but I don't care about the best option. I care about my safety. That's why I'll never become a Police officer. They can't even defend themselves without people behind computer screens criticizing and generalizing their actions.

Quote

American cops should not be going to lethal force before all else UNLESS the situation calls for it!  Man with a gun?  Man with a weapon who is attacking you?  Yes and yes, but a man with his pants to his ankles that is WALKING towards you? It would've taken mere SECONDS to get a taser and well-la, this situation would't really of been news because the man would've been subdued and arrested.

If a man is walking towards me in a threatening manner, then I would use whatever other tools I have available. It all really depends on the exact circumstances, because I hope you realize that some departments don't have tasers.

 

Edited March 30, 20188 yr by TheDivineHustle

It's interesting because a big concern in America, as it should be anywhere, right now is not necessarily guns. I big concern is knives as, within 20 feet, a suspect can get to and stab an officer before the officer has enough time to pull out his weapon and respond. And, in what I can see, the officer definitely appears to be closer than 20 feet to the guy and the officer could have easily been concerned about this possibility. Nonetheless, we live in a time where there is a lot of aggression from the minority regarding the police which is impacting the majority. That's the way it works in America. Am I saying the shooting was justified? No. There isn't enough evidence for me to make that kind of a judgment. I am, however, saying that there are a lot of variables to consider, to include the increased aggression, the quick reaction needed for knives and close-range attacks, and many factors such as tasers not working as effectively as they use to. My two cents.

 

On a side note...

2 hours ago, Giordano said:

Maybe I should become a cop so I can avoid dealing with all situations and just shoot people when I feel "threatened".

 

+1 for Miko. This is by far the most immature thing that I have ever read, ever. Not even just lcpdfr but anywhere.