On 23/04/2018 at 8:55 AM, Antia said:

It strikes me how some people in here think shooting an unarmed man is a fine thing to do. This situation would be good for pepperspray or taser. Even baton or with your own fists. You took the wrong job if you will do anything to make sure you're not getting hurt. Being a police officer, you're gonna have to fight. Fighting hurts. That's how it is, and if you're willing to get hurt from a fight, don't become a police officer. Of course, don't go recklessly fighting, get proper fighting training. I very much doubt US police really trains in that. I mean, when your academy is running for 6 or 12 or 15 or idk how many weeks, you just don't get a lot of training. Your FTO's probably not gonna train you either, because there's no practice target whatsoever. Compared to being at least 3-4 years in academy here... they'll teach you how to fight here.

 

By the way, the force spectrum is applied at a way that you attempt the steps before you move on to the next level. So first pepperspray. Doesn't work? Taser. Doesn't work? If colleague arrived, hands. If not, draw firearm, warning shots, then aim for legs. Yes, you can still hit the legs if you have got the proper training to do so, even when you're under adrenaline. The training is exactly what worries me though...

5

I can sympathise with the point you are making but like some have already done I would refer you to these 2 videos: 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/police-trained-shoot-wound-experts/story?id=40402933

https://www.fox25boston.com/news/heres-why-police-dont-shoot-to-wound-in-the-case-of-deadly-force/448470469

 

That shooting however was unjustified and out of department policy after a review:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5644337/Houston-sheriffs-deputy-fatally-shot-unarmed-black-man-fired.html

"A Texas sheriff has fired a deputy who fatally shot an unarmed black man during a confrontation in Houston.

Harris County Sheriff Ed Gonzalez announced Friday that Deputy Cameron Brewer, who is black, was being fired for failure to follow the department's use-of-force policy in the March 22 fatal shooting of 34-year-old Danny Ray Thomas. 

In doing so, Brewer chose not to use his Taser first in an effort to subdue Thomas.

Thomas was shot dead in a confrontation captured on police and civilian video.

Thomas had his pants around his ankles and was unarmed as he advanced toward Brewer, despite warnings to stop."

1 hour ago, SpikeTerm said:

Oh please, I'm so sick of hearing "People no days have cameras". Most of the people now days who 'whip' out their cameras are just waiting for a law suit or to become famous for taking a police situation out of context.  The majority of police are good, if the majority or even half were bad there would be thousands upon thousands killed by police annually yet there isn't. 

 

Except...you can't take it out of context. They start recording immediately, letting us see the situation from start to finish.  The only way it could be taken out of context is if they started recording right before the person was shot.  You're missing my point with this. Now that everyone is using a camera of some type, all of the abuse and unjustified shootings are being highlited.  I would think that everyone would agree this was a good thing that it's out there, that the abusive cops are getting the bad publicity they deserve.

 

You  seem to purposely be ignoring the part of my message where I said "there are plenty of good cops". I love good police officers, but I will rain fire down on the bad ones.  There's no justifying them.

5 minutes ago, Giordano said:

 

Except...you can't take it out of context. They start recording immediately, letting us see the situation from start to finish.  The only way it could be taken out of context is if they started recording right before the person was shot.  You're missing my point with this. Now that everyone is using a camera of some type, all of the abuse and unjustified shootings are being highlited.  I would think that everyone would agree this was a good thing that it's out there, that the abusive cops are getting the bad publicity they deserve.

 

You  seem to purposely be ignoring the part of my message where I said "there are plenty of good cops". I love good police officers, but I will rain fire down on the bad ones.  There's no justifying them.

LOL. Since when did someone start recording immediately and presented the entire situation? Very few. Look at the most controversial ones, like Michael Brown it wasn't on camera but the entire situation was lied about by Michael Brown's friends and the entire media was jumping on board with the racist police story when there was no evidence or racism. People claimed he had his hands up, the autopsy showed he didn't have his hands up and wasn't shot by police in the back. There are few these days  that show the entire story and truly show an outright murder. 

11 hours ago, Antia said:

I mean, when your academy is running for 6 or 12 or 15 or idk how many weeks, you just don't get a lot of training. Your FTO's probably not gonna train you either, because there's no practice target whatsoever. Compared to being at least 3-4 years in academy here... they'll teach you how to fight here.

 

I can't speak for other departments, but the New York State Police academy is 6 months long followed by 10 weeks with an FTO and a 1 year probationary period. In that time, you learn everything from case law, to self defense, to proper use of force. You live at the academy all week long (mon-fri) and get 1095 hours of training. You also are considered employed at that point and get paid a salary. To be honest, if any police department has an academy less than 6 months long they probably do deserve bad press for not properly training their officers. Of course funding is always an issue, smaller departments might not be able to afford putting everyone through such a long training program.

2 hours ago, TheLoneRanger said:

*Lot of text*

 

Well, we both know that every situation is different. My comments are merely meant for this situation, and since you seem to agree that this is unjustified, we're on the same page. I was going against those that think this is justified, out of total blindness for the police. There's a lot of police haters out there. They are blind, but turning blind pro-police should be avoided as well. I'm pro-police but am trying my best not to turn blind, which means that I am capable of criticising bad police work. 

2 hours ago, willpv23 said:

 

I can't speak for other departments, but the New York State Police academy is 6 months long followed by 10 weeks with an FTO and a 1 year probationary period. In that time, you learn everything from case law, to self defense, to proper use of force. You live at the academy all week long (mon-fri) and get 1095 hours of training. You also are considered employed at that point and get paid a salary.

 

See, for a police force that often has to make use of their firearm, I find 6 month to be awfully low. Here, the training lasts 12 months, so basically the double.

Edited April 23, 20188 yr by Hystery

6 minutes ago, Hystery said:

 

See, for a police force that often has to make use of their firearm, I find 6 month to be awfully low. Here, the training lasts 12 months, so basically the double.

 

Well, I'm sure there's a cost/benefit aspect to it. Pay for the cadets, the cost of the academy facilities, the cost of the instructors/trainers, supplies, etc; it all adds up. There's a point where the benefits of longer training just don't outweigh the costs. Would a longer training program have prevented this situation? There really isn't any way to know.

22 hours ago, willpv23 said:

 

Well, I'm sure there's a cost/benefit aspect to it. Pay for the cadets, the cost of the academy facilities, the cost of the instructors/trainers, supplies, etc; it all adds up. There's a point where the benefits of longer training just don't outweigh the costs. Would a longer training program have prevented this situation? There really isn't any way to know.

Out of curiosity, do you know any dept in your state that has the academy longer than 6 months? From what I see online, this is a pretty standard duration.

 

On 4/23/2018 at 8:22 PM, Antia said:

Is that like a bachelors degree that you're referring to? Out here, it really depends on what rank you're going for.

Yes, and to become a law enforcement officer (like receive a lieutenant rank) you can either get it in a police university or in a civilian one. Our system is kinda messed up to the extent that me being familiar with it still have to reread the laws... I like yours more, at the very least it's a clear system. 

36 minutes ago, Hastings said:

I like yours more, at the very least it's a clear system. 

Yeah a couple of years ago we merged all 25 policedistricts to 1 big national police organisation. As you may know our country is pretty small, which is in this case a benefit. That makes it so that we have very standardized processes and systems in place now, which is a good thing. The bad thing though that there is 1 central application proces, and being denied for that, means that you have no alternatives, except for waiting 6 months/1 year to reapply. In that sense I am jealous of Americans who have pleeeennttyyyy of choices :D