Guys, what's with all that Bible hate? Y'know, things were different back then, right?

I'm an atheist, I can't help myself asking questions why people still belive in a old book about a talking snake, a man walking on water and and virgin births.

 

On a bit more serious note; to those of you who say you are against gay marrige: Why? Is it because of your religion or do you just don't like the thought of same-sex relationships?

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by corleone

I'm not going to bother reading through this entire topic since people on the internet try to argue without having their facts straight, which I am positive happened here. But here's my opinion: I don't think marriage (in the way most of us mean it) should be handled by the government at all. Anything that has to do with the government (taxes and stuff) should not involve marriage. That's what separation of church and state is. How it should be in the US is that people get a legal union (or civil union I guess it's called) where they are classified as "Together" according to the government. It shouldn't matter what genders are involved, anyone over the age of 18 should be able to file to be legally together with anyone else over the age of 18. If they want to get "married" in the religious way (in a church with a priest or however your religion handles marriage), then that should NOT involve the government in anyway. The church can then have it's own rules on who marries whom.

 

But since everybody in the government are complete idiots, this will never happen and there will never be true separation of church and state.

 

tl;dr: Anybody should be able to legally "marry" anybody.

 

Edit: I just skimmed through the last page...I love how people are trying to say that this topic shouldn't be here...this is the random forum for anything. And since when do you decide what can and can't be on Sam and Jay's website?

Edited May 28, 201312 yr by willpv23

I don't think it's fair to say "fuck the Bible". I'm not Christian, nor do I follow any faith officially, but I don't think it's alright to slander an entire belief system. I too disagree with many things in the Bible, but if people choose to believe it then so be it.

 

Onto the topic at hand, I'd have to agree with some earlier posters. I'm from Canada, myself, and unlike many countries in the world we have been able to legalize same-sex marriage with ease back in 2005. Although it was and still is a very controversial topic, I find that as a nation we have been able to deal with it because we have strict boundaries between state and religion. Unlike some other nations, the United States for example, the laws we pass and the religions that we embrace are two very different things. For this reason, the ritual act of marriage in a religion (where gay marriage is possibly not allowed) is differentiated between legal marriage. 

 

In the US, as far as I can see, there is a blurred line between the state and the church. Although the church doesn't pass any laws or anything like that, its power is definitely seen in instances like these. Marriage is, in a legal sense, a merger of two people into one. It gives them special rights as a couple, yada yada yada. In a religious sense, where marriage originated from, it was a promise before God of love and commitment between a man and a women.

 

If two men or two women want to share the same LEGAL rights as a man and woman want to then I say so be it. There should be no problem at all about this. Now, should the church allow Gay marriage? Thats a whole other topic, and is really THEIR choice, and their interpretation of God's choice. But LEGALLY, it should defo be allowed.

 

TL;DR: State & religion are separate, and should be treated as such. Gay marriage should be allowed for the legal benefits associated with marriage. 

 

The thing is, you wouldn't become a flaming homosexual in 10 years. Its been proven scientifically that our attraction to other people is based on the levels of testosterone and other hormones absorbed by our brain during development in our mothers womb. People who are gay or bisexual have absorbed less testosterone, and therefore have a hormonal imbalance, making them attracted to other men. It's not a question of choice or society, but science and biology.

 

If you're still skeptical, consider this:

Animals in the wild have been found to exhibit sexual tendencies with other members of their sex. We have found gay wild animals. Did these animals just wake up and say, "hey I'ma be gay today"? No, they didn't. They don't have the complex social networks that humans have, and therefore don't think about that type of stuff. They just follow what their bodies say, and their bodies say that they are attracted to other males or other females. 

 

In my last attempt to explain this, I'll try and put this in perspective of the average 'Joe'. You're walking down the street and on one side you have this beautiful Emma Watson looking women (or whatever actress you prefer ;)) and on the other side you have a truly repulsive women picking her nose and snorting and wiping her nose with her hand etc etc etc. Who are you attracted to? The beautiful women or the vile lady? The women of course, but why? Well, its the same reason gays are attracted to people of the same sex.

I'm Christian and I don't believe any of the stuff in that MAN WRITTEN BOOK, that's the problem these day's, people are trying to have same sex marriage legalized, while the bible says it's wrong.

Guys, what's with all that Bible hate? Y'know, things were different back then, right?

And IMO gay couples can marry, but they should not be allowed to have children.

That is like saying "It's okay for a single mother or father parent to have kids but when there are two parents of the same sex, It automatically makes each bad at child raising as soon as they get married.

Edited May 28, 201312 yr by Hilth0

Perhaps some more food for thought:

 

I can understand why straight men (myself included) and indeed many gay men, probably don't like the idea of two men having anal sex.  Indeed, some quick searching threw up this study (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-10/iu-nsf101811.php) where anal sex was a less common activity between gay men as opposed to oral sex and kissing.

 

On the contrary, anal sex is far more popular in heterosexual relationships and I'm sure that many women might actually prefer it to vaginal sex.  

 

For the straight men that oppose gay relationships, do you have the same level of hostility towards lesbian relationships?  I can totally understand that you might not like homosexuality, and that's perfectly okay but think about this though; let's assume that if you like to look at pictures of woman, especially those in a state of undress as just about every straight man does, do you somehow become grossly offended if you look at a picture of two naked women alone in private, touching each other, kissing each other or actively having sex with each other?  All of the listed situations have some sort of sexual connotation, however weak or broad it may be, therefore would it offend you to the point where you would only look at a picture of one naked woman?

 

If not, why?  Presumably because you're a straight guy and therefore you're attracted to it.  Is it therefore right that you are hostile towards homosexual men but not homosexual women?

 

Again, you don't have to like the idea of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean that it should be illegal or that homosexual people should be otherwise punished or treated differently.  Two girls kissing might turn you on, but two guys kissing might make you sick - that's fine, but it's not fair to give the girls preferential treatment simply because you like it better, and it has been argued that lesbians do generally get better treatment than gay men do, and this is actually evident in many countries where the law might forbid sex between men but not women.

It is absolutely farcical to call ourselves a society founded on liberty and equality when basic civil rights are denied to millions of people because they're different and therefore "wrong".  It's also absurd to bring religion into the argument because that should, as per the constitution, already be thrown out of any social or government policy debate.  As several people brought up adoption, should interracial couple also be banned from adopting?  I'm sure a few decades ago their children were also harassed in school.  Should they be prevented from adopting because at one point there was a negative social stigma around it?

Edited May 28, 201312 yr by Codz

I'm not gay, however, I am going to hell since I do have tattoo's, I do have piercings and I used to smoke,used to drink all the time and twacked out on Exstacy all the time(until I moved to the maritimes) sounds like it would have been better off the way it was before rather than being gay..

Edited May 28, 201312 yr by Slimory

Guys, what's with all that Bible hate? Y'know, things were different back then, right?

And IMO gay couples can marry, but they should not be allowed to have children.

 

I hardly call it bible hate. If people want to follow a belief solely because it is in the bible, then they should follow every other belief.

Perhaps some more food for thought:

 

I can understand why straight men (myself included) and indeed many gay men, probably don't like the idea of two men having anal sex.  Indeed, some quick searching threw up this study (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-10/iu-nsf101811.php) where anal sex was a less common activity between gay men as opposed to oral sex and kissing.

 

On the contrary, anal sex is far more popular in heterosexual relationships and I'm sure that many women might actually prefer it to vaginal sex.  

 

For the straight men that oppose gay relationships, do you have the same level of hostility towards lesbian relationships?  I can totally understand that you might not like homosexuality, and that's perfectly okay but think about this though; let's assume that if you like to look at pictures of woman, especially those in a state of undress as just about every straight man does, do you somehow become grossly offended if you look at a picture of two naked women alone in private, touching each other, kissing each other or actively having sex with each other?  All of the listed situations have some sort of sexual connotation, however weak or broad it may be, therefore would it offend you to the point where you would only look at a picture of one naked woman?

 

If not, why?  Presumably because you're a straight guy and therefore you're attracted to it.  Is it therefore right that you are hostile towards homosexual men but not homosexual women?

 

Again, you don't have to like the idea of homosexuality, but that doesn't mean that it should be illegal or that homosexual people should be otherwise punished or treated differently.  Two girls kissing might turn you on, but two guys kissing might make you sick - that's fine, but it's not fair to give the girls preferential treatment simply because you like it better, and it has been argued that lesbians do generally get better treatment than gay men do, and this is actually evident in many countries where the law might forbid sex between men but not women.

 

I don't have any issues with either couples. But honestly, neither one's intercourse caught on camera turns me on. I admit I can watch the making out and whatnot. But when it reaches anal/vaginal stage, I tend to just...avoid looking. Its so unnatural.

I don't have any issues with either couples. But honestly, neither one's intercourse caught on camera turns me on. I admit I can watch the making out and whatnot. But when it reaches anal/vaginal stage, I tend to just...avoid looking. Its so unnatural.

 

Unnatural?  Airplanes are unnatural.  Cities are unnatural.  Clothing is unnatural.  Do you have a problem with any of those things?

Unnatural?  Airplanes are unnatural.  Cities are unnatural.  Clothing is unnatural.  Do you have a problem with any of those things?

 

No.

Why not? Why do you have an issue with gay marriage, but not with them?

I'm an atheist, I can't help myself asking questions why people still belive in a old book about a talking snake, a man walking on water and and births.

 

 

This!

Watch, in 1000 years, children will be studying in schools how humans of our generation used to believe in mythical creatures like God and angels. Of how fanatical beliefs took control of our society.

 

The same way of how children are now studying how people believed in dragons and mummies.

 

On a side note, my personal belief is that aliens boned monkeys and that's how we humans were created. I mean seriously, we are so vastly intelligent compared to other animals on Earth.

 

I WANT TO BELIEVE

Aliens fucking pwn!

No.

 

Then why, if by virtue of being unnatural, is gay intercourse any less acceptable than any of the previously listed things?

Then why, if by virtue of being unnatural, is gay intercourse any less acceptable than any of the previously listed things?

 

In the same way if two pigs forcefully sodomize you in a deserted field. Its unnatural, so it should be okay with you right?

 

Learn to distinguish the good and bad aspects of things, dude. The airplanes, the cities and clothings is the good side. You're comparing all the wrong things.

So a sexual act between two consenting adults is the same thing as rape by wild animals. Got it.

Seriously? *That's* your metaphor?

In the same way if two pigs forcefully sodomize you in a deserted field. Its unnatural, so it should be okay with you right?

 

Learn to distinguish the good and bad aspects of things, dude. The airplanes, the cities and clothings is the good side. You're comparing all the wrong things.

 

Two pigs assf***king you in the desert, oh my god that is hilarious 

I can't stop laughing!

 

Pig 1: Hey, Bruno. See that human over there?

Pig 2: Yeah dude, check out DAT ASS.

Pig 1: I think he wants the D.

Pig 2: Let's creep on him real ninja-like and give him a taste.

 

 

Pig 1: Hey human! Lemme holla at dat ass!

Human: Sheeeeeeeit.

Pig 2: Gimme ya ass foo, gimme ya ass. That's my ass now.

 

*Commence Intercourse*

 

Oh man....sorry for going off-topic but yeah, some comedy couldn't hurt...

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by RTZVI

So a sexual act between two consenting adults is the same thing as rape by wild animals. Got it.

Seriously? *That's* your metaphor?

 

Seriously, cp702? This is how you "deduce" from other's posts? Apparently, you clearly miss the points on people's posts and manipulate them to suit your liking, instead of understanding it the way they were meant to be.

That is like saying "It's okay for a single mother or father parent to have kids but when there are two parents of the same sex, It automatically makes each bad at child raising as soon as they get married.

Did I say something like that? I just think it's not right, and it's my opinion.

And also we should not take Bible literally - it's full of metaphors.

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by Yard1

Regardless of anything, who says heterosexuality is "natural" while homosexuality isn't? Scientists are getting closer everyday to proving that your sexuality is natural. Take a Psychology class. Actually, I'll prove it for you.

 

From this.

 

Here's a part that would prove that it isn't natural, which is what whoever is arguing this is basing his argument off of:

 

 

From an evolutionary standpoint, homosexuality is a trait that would not be expected to develop and persist in the face of Darwinian natural selection. Homosexuality is nevertheless common for men and women in most cultures.

 

The rest of the article proves the people who disagree with you (including myself) right.

 

 

According to the study, published online today in The Quarterly Review of Biology, sex-specific epi-marks, which normally do not pass between generations and are thus "erased," can lead to homosexuality when they escape erasure and are transmitted from father to daughter or mother to son.

 

Sex-specific epi-marks produced in early fetal development protect each sex from the substantial natural variation in testosterone that occurs during later fetal development. Sex-specific epi-marks stop girl fetuses from being masculinized when they experience atypically high testosterone, and vice versa for boy fetuses. Different epi-marks protect different sex-specific traits from being masculinized or feminized – some affect the genitals, others sexual identity, and yet others affect sexual partner preference. However, when these epi-marks are transmitted across generations from fathers to daughters or mothers to sons, they may cause reversed effects, such as the feminization of some traits in sons, such as sexual preference, and similarly a partial masculinization of daughters.

 

Actually, pretty much everything we do is "natural." Our brain determines the way we behave. Neurotransmitters, hormones and all that other stuff is what really makes us do what we do. Yes, we each have our own beliefs which are developed based on our environment, how we were raised, our experiences, etc. but there is a lot of stuff going on in your head that is greatly affecting it. 

 

Seriously, just take an intro to Psychology class and you will learn this stuff. Take any science class to learn to actually LOOK UP PROOF before making an argument.

 

EDIT (adding on to this): Who are we to say that people who are naturally attracted to the same sex should have less rights to those who are born straight? It's not their fault. I'm sure there are Christians out there who are homosexual. Most likely hiding it since it goes against their religion. Just watch Trapped in the Closet by R. Kelly. The Pasteur was married to a woman, but having an affair with a man! He didn't want it to get out that he was homosexual (or bisexual, I think, since he said he also loves his wife) because it goes against a random book that people worship for some reason (not to be disrespectful). The Bible is another argument, but I'm just gonna put this out there: People think Scientology is ridiculous because people believe in a science fiction novel. IT'S THE SAME DAMN THING. Scientology is just making fun of all the religions that worship books.

Edited May 29, 201312 yr by willpv23