I have a few questions about the LAPD and I hope this is the right forum section to post them.

1) I've seen pictures of officers wearing both short-sleeve shirt and long-sleeve shirt + tie. Are both of them used on patrol or the long-sleeve one is used for ceremonial purposes only or maybe when it's cold outside? Same question for the police caps, I rarely (if ever) see officers wear their caps outside parades or other official gatherings.

2) When is an officer allowed to use his baton? I don't see them wearing on them all the time and running back to the car to get it doesn't seem very practical. Is unholdering the weapon seen like a better way of showing authority and demanding compliance than wielding a baton which might make them look like thugs?

3) Which type of Glock is the standard issue firearm? Or are police officers allowed to choose any caliber (and maybe pay for the weapon)?

4) Do officers from one station always patrol the same neighboring areas? Or they are also patrolling other parts of town?

5) Are there any rules or guidelines as to when can police cars ram the suspects vehicle? I'm thinking mainly about financial reasons, will officers get in trouble if they damage their patrol cars too often, during chases of course.

I know some of the questions sound silly but I'd like to play LSPDFR in a more accurate way than how I do it currently. If anyone else has questions about LAPD, you can post them here.

They wear short sleeves and long sleeves on patrol. They only use hats on ceremonies like you said. I'm pretty sure the officer is allowed to use his baton when someone attacks him (like with a punch). If someone tries to attack him with a knife, they can shoot them. Here you can find which type of firearms they can be issued:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Police_Department#Firearms

Like every PD, they patrol in their district, but if a chase erupts, they can stay in chases even when the area is mainly patrolled by some other department (like LASD or CHP), however if the suspect stays in that area for a longer period, they usually "give" the chase to the local PD, or at least, they'll be the lead officers in the pursuit. I have seen several chases, not in one the officers rammed the suspect's car on purpose, so I'm pretty sure ramming is not what they do, however they do use the PIT manouver to disable the suspect's car. The PIT manouver has to be approved by the sergeant (I believe), and they use it only when the suspect is going at least around 15 mph, and no more then highway speeds. These numbers change, it all depends on the scenario. Also they won't do the PIT if civilians are in the way. According to CA agencies, their main priority is public safety, officer's safety and the suspect's safety. So they won't pit a guy out at 200 km/h because it'd most likely kill the suspect, and might even hurt the officers.

You can find quite a lot of CA chases on this YT channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrclzIWSswy4CSs3l0AmRQ

Thanks for the reply, you were very helpful! Also thanks for the youtube link, I love watching police chases. 

ad.1) There is (was?) a tradition that new Officers are supposed to wear long sleeve shirt for some period of time, no matter how hot is outside.

ad.2) The Dept. is divided into Bureaus->Areas(Station)->Sectors. Here you can see how the Southeast Station in divided:

this specific area consist/is neibourghing to the real-life equivalent of Davis. The site this map comes from has a lot of information about LAPD communication, worth to read: http://harrymarnell.net/kma367.htm.

I also recommend to watch some old Cops episodes from LA and listen to LAPD radio: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/20296 (you can find other broadcasts from other areas and units)

Are the LAPD single crewed? What are their Ford SUV's used for, are those used by all officers or just Sgt's and above? Are LAPD trained to deal with pursuits to a proper level and why do the LAPD insist in having a huge convoy of LAPD cars during a pursuit when the last vehicles clearly serve no purpose, I mean, the first 5 cars I understand, but the next 15 should either be up ahead trying to block the possible escape routes or deal with normal patrols 

Are the LAPD single crewed? What are their Ford SUV's used for, are those used by all officers or just Sgt's and above? Are LAPD trained to deal with pursuits to a proper level and why do the LAPD insist in having a huge convoy of LAPD cars during a pursuit when the last vehicles clearly serve no purpose, I mean, the first 5 cars I understand, but the next 15 should either be up ahead trying to block the possible escape routes or deal with normal patrols 

I think only the U-boat (report car) is a one officer unit. Don't know the answer to the other questions, but I like to think that police cars don't just tag along without a purpose, for example a long column of police cars could be easier heard and seen and could provide on the scene assistance for a variety of situations. For example if the suspect vehicle hits another car and then drive away, one police car from the pack could stop and give first aid. Also police cars can get disabled during the chase and other officers might need to stop to assist the injured crew. Or if the suspect abandons the vehicle and runs through back alleys or through peoples gardens, you need a lot of units already on the scene to secure a perimeter so that the suspect doesn't slip by (that might be hard to manage if there is a police helicopter at the scene). Of course if everything goes well 5 cars are just as good as 15 but they have to prepare for the worst.

1) Not sure how the LAPD does it but usually officers have the option of wearing the short sleeve or long sleeve uniform (it is usually weather dependent). I know for my sheriff's office most deputies will only wear the long sleeve if it is cold and it is worn without the tie since the tie is usually for formal occasions. Again, not sure how the LAPD does it but the hat is kind of the same way. Deputies have the option of wearing it if they want but most don't want to because it is just one more thing to get messed up when you get into a fight.

2) The use of the baton is dependent on what the suspect is doing. In general most use of force charts allow the use of a baton at the active physical or aggressive physical level (or whatever equivalent level is on the chart you look at) although this will vary depending on agency policy. And are you referring to the old school batons or the collapsible batons? Because I have seen LAPD officers carrying collapsible batons on their belts plenty of times. If you are referring to the old school ones I am willing to bet they only bring those out for large demonstrations since it isn't exactly the easiest thing to carry around on your belt.

3) I believe the standard issue for LAPD is the Glock 17 or S&W M&P. I am not familiar with LAPD policy but some agencies do allow officers to carry their personally owned firearms as their primary or secondary firearm. Usually there are restrictions on what kind of pistols they can carry and they also have to qualify with it. At my sheriff's office there were a few deputies who decided to carry their own pistols (saw one guy who carried a Beretta 92 for whatever reason) but most liked carrying the standard issue Glock 23. However, most deputies at my sheriff's office carry their personally owned carbine rifle, usually an AR15 but there were a couple who bought MP5s and one with an HK416.

4) Usually officers will stay in one area. I'm not sure how often LAPD rotates their officers but you will be assigned a sector and you patrol that area. At my sheriff's office squad bids were every six months so you could switch squads but that only determined what shift and zone you worked, once you were on that squad it was up to the squad sergeant to assign you a sector within that zone. Most sergeants let the guys pick their sectors but a few would have them on a month rotation to get the deputies experience in different areas within the zone.

5) Finances are never going to be a reason for police not to ram or PIT a vehicle. The only thing preventing police from hitting a car is department policy and environmental factors (civilian traffic, speed, road conditions, etc). Police vehicles are insured and can be fixed. If an officer damages his car multiple times and it is because of pursuits and out of their control then no, they would not get in trouble it is just part of the job. If the reason his vehicle kept on getting damaged was due to negligence then yes they could get in trouble.

1) I've seen pictures of officers wearing both short-sleeve shirt and long-sleeve shirt + tie. Are both of them used on patrol or the long-sleeve one is used for ceremonial purposes only or maybe when it's cold outside? Same question for the police caps, I rarely (if ever) see officers wear their caps outside parades or other official gatherings.

 It's never cold in LA 

2) When is an officer allowed to use his baton? I don't see them wearing on them all the time and running back to the car to get it doesn't seem very practical. Is unholdering the weapon seen like a better way of showing authority and demanding compliance than wielding a baton which might make them look like thugs?

If you're referring to the old-school fixed baton I dont think those are used a lot anymore. They usually carry collapsible ASP batons, however a lot of times a Taser for example is a lot handier than any baton.

 It's never cold in LA 

If you're referring to the old-school fixed baton I dont think those are used a lot anymore. They usually carry collapsible ASP batons, however a lot of times a Taser for example is a lot handier than any baton.

Yes I was thinking about the old style baton. It makes sense that if they switched to the telescopic one I probably just missed it looking at pictures since it's a lot smaller. Luckily somebody already made a mod for it. https://www.gta5-mods.com/weapons/asp-baton 

Yes I was thinking about the old style baton. It makes sense that if they switched to the telescopic one I probably just missed it looking at pictures since it's a lot smaller. Luckily somebody already made a mod for it. https://www.gta5-mods.com/weapons/asp-baton 

Yeah. In reality the ASP batons are nowhere near as effective as the fixed ones but it's a trade off between size and power.

Yeah. In reality the ASP batons are nowhere near as effective as the fixed ones but it's a trade off between size and power.

They are pretty effective as long as you use them right. They have the capability of breaking bones, a metal rod smacking you in the arm or leg isn't going to feel good. They are a very brutal weapon however which is why lots of officers are hesitant to use them even if they are justified in using them because images of police hitting people with batons has always been very touchy for the public.

They are pretty effective as long as you use them right. They have the capability of breaking bones, a metal rod smacking you in the arm or leg isn't going to feel good. They are a very brutal weapon however which is why lots of officers are hesitant to use them even if they are justified in using them because images of police hitting people with batons has always been very touchy for the public.

They are effective to some extent, however the good old fixed baton is a lot more effective. The public will always find anything that Law Enforcement does wrong and brutal. That's because they do not and will not realize the realities of the job etc. Officer safety, however, comes before the public's opinion.

They are effective to some extent, however the good old fixed baton is a lot more effective. The public will always find anything that Law Enforcement does wrong and brutal. That's because they do not and will not realize the realities of the job etc. Officer safety, however, comes before the public's opinion.

They are pretty effective as long as you use them right. They have the capability of breaking bones, a metal rod smacking you in the arm or leg isn't going to feel good. They are a very brutal weapon however which is why lots of officers are hesitant to use them even if they are justified in using them because images of police hitting people with batons has always been very touchy for the public.

Yeah. In reality the ASP batons are nowhere near as effective as the fixed ones but it's a trade off between size and power.

Yes I was thinking about the old style baton. It makes sense that if they switched to the telescopic one I probably just missed it looking at pictures since it's a lot smaller. Luckily somebody already made a mod for it. https://www.gta5-mods.com/weapons/asp-baton 

 It's never cold in LA 

If you're referring to the old-school fixed baton I dont think those are used a lot anymore. They usually carry collapsible ASP batons, however a lot of times a Taser for example is a lot handier than any baton.

1) Not sure how the LAPD does it but usually officers have the option of wearing the short sleeve or long sleeve uniform (it is usually weather dependent). I know for my sheriff's office most deputies will only wear the long sleeve if it is cold and it is worn without the tie since the tie is usually for formal occasions. Again, not sure how the LAPD does it but the hat is kind of the same way. Deputies have the option of wearing it if they want but most don't want to because it is just one more thing to get messed up when you get into a fight.

2) The use of the baton is dependent on what the suspect is doing. In general most use of force charts allow the use of a baton at the active physical or aggressive physical level (or whatever equivalent level is on the chart you look at) although this will vary depending on agency policy. And are you referring to the old school batons or the collapsible batons? Because I have seen LAPD officers carrying collapsible batons on their belts plenty of times. If you are referring to the old school ones I am willing to bet they only bring those out for large demonstrations since it isn't exactly the easiest thing to carry around on your belt.

3) I believe the standard issue for LAPD is the Glock 17 or S&W M&P. I am not familiar with LAPD policy but some agencies do allow officers to carry their personally owned firearms as their primary or secondary firearm. Usually there are restrictions on what kind of pistols they can carry and they also have to qualify with it. At my sheriff's office there were a few deputies who decided to carry their own pistols (saw one guy who carried a Beretta 92 for whatever reason) but most liked carrying the standard issue Glock 23. However, most deputies at my sheriff's office carry their personally owned carbine rifle, usually an AR15 but there were a couple who bought MP5s and one with an HK416.

4) Usually officers will stay in one area. I'm not sure how often LAPD rotates their officers but you will be assigned a sector and you patrol that area. At my sheriff's office squad bids were every six months so you could switch squads but that only determined what shift and zone you worked, once you were on that squad it was up to the squad sergeant to assign you a sector within that zone. Most sergeants let the guys pick their sectors but a few would have them on a month rotation to get the deputies experience in different areas within the zone.

5) Finances are never going to be a reason for police not to ram or PIT a vehicle. The only thing preventing police from hitting a car is department policy and environmental factors (civilian traffic, speed, road conditions, etc). Police vehicles are insured and can be fixed. If an officer damages his car multiple times and it is because of pursuits and out of their control then no, they would not get in trouble it is just part of the job. If the reason his vehicle kept on getting damaged was due to negligence then yes they could get in trouble.

I think only the U-boat (report car) is a one officer unit. Don't know the answer to the other questions, but I like to think that police cars don't just tag along without a purpose, for example a long column of police cars could be easier heard and seen and could provide on the scene assistance for a variety of situations. For example if the suspect vehicle hits another car and then drive away, one police car from the pack could stop and give first aid. Also police cars can get disabled during the chase and other officers might need to stop to assist the injured crew. Or if the suspect abandons the vehicle and runs through back alleys or through peoples gardens, you need a lot of units already on the scene to secure a perimeter so that the suspect doesn't slip by (that might be hard to manage if there is a police helicopter at the scene). Of course if everything goes well 5 cars are just as good as 15 but they have to prepare for the worst.

Are the LAPD single crewed? What are their Ford SUV's used for, are those used by all officers or just Sgt's and above? Are LAPD trained to deal with pursuits to a proper level and why do the LAPD insist in having a huge convoy of LAPD cars during a pursuit when the last vehicles clearly serve no purpose, I mean, the first 5 cars I understand, but the next 15 should either be up ahead trying to block the possible escape routes or deal with normal patrols 

ad.1) There is (was?) a tradition that new Officers are supposed to wear long sleeve shirt for some period of time, no matter how hot is outside.

ad.2) The Dept. is divided into Bureaus->Areas(Station)->Sectors. Here you can see how the Southeast Station in divided:

this specific area consist/is neibourghing to the real-life equivalent of Davis. The site this map comes from has a lot of information about LAPD communication, worth to read: http://harrymarnell.net/kma367.htm.

I also recommend to watch some old Cops episodes from LA and listen to LAPD radio: http://www.broadcastify.com/listen/feed/20296 (you can find other broadcasts from other areas and units)

Thanks for the reply, you were very helpful! Also thanks for the youtube link, I love watching police chases. 

They wear short sleeves and long sleeves on patrol. They only use hats on ceremonies like you said. I'm pretty sure the officer is allowed to use his baton when someone attacks him (like with a punch). If someone tries to attack him with a knife, they can shoot them. Here you can find which type of firearms they can be issued:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_Police_Department#Firearms

Like every PD, they patrol in their district, but if a chase erupts, they can stay in chases even when the area is mainly patrolled by some other department (like LASD or CHP), however if the suspect stays in that area for a longer period, they usually "give" the chase to the local PD, or at least, they'll be the lead officers in the pursuit. I have seen several chases, not in one the officers rammed the suspect's car on purpose, so I'm pretty sure ramming is not what they do, however they do use the PIT manouver to disable the suspect's car. The PIT manouver has to be approved by the sergeant (I believe), and they use it only when the suspect is going at least around 15 mph, and no more then highway speeds. These numbers change, it all depends on the scenario. Also they won't do the PIT if civilians are in the way. According to CA agencies, their main priority is public safety, officer's safety and the suspect's safety. So they won't pit a guy out at 200 km/h because it'd most likely kill the suspect, and might even hurt the officers.

You can find quite a lot of CA chases on this YT channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjrclzIWSswy4CSs3l0AmRQ

I have a few questions about the LAPD and I hope this is the right forum section to post them.

1) I've seen pictures of officers wearing both short-sleeve shirt and long-sleeve shirt + tie. Are both of them used on patrol or the long-sleeve one is used for ceremonial purposes only or maybe when it's cold outside? Same question for the police caps, I rarely (if ever) see officers wear their caps outside parades or other official gatherings.

2) When is an officer allowed to use his baton? I don't see them wearing on them all the time and running back to the car to get it doesn't seem very practical. Is unholdering the weapon seen like a better way of showing authority and demanding compliance than wielding a baton which might make them look like thugs?

3) Which type of Glock is the standard issue firearm? Or are police officers allowed to choose any caliber (and maybe pay for the weapon)?

4) Do officers from one station always patrol the same neighboring areas? Or they are also patrolling other parts of town?

5) Are there any rules or guidelines as to when can police cars ram the suspects vehicle? I'm thinking mainly about financial reasons, will officers get in trouble if they damage their patrol cars too often, during chases of course.

I know some of the questions sound silly but I'd like to play LSPDFR in a more accurate way than how I do it currently. If anyone else has questions about LAPD, you can post them here.

@BogdanM and everyone else reading this, here are a few facts about the lapd that should answer your questions, if not feel free to ask more and i will provide as much info on the subject as i can.

so, in answer to your question BogdanM i have a few answers for you:
1. The LAPD's official handbook states that all officers are allowed to wear short sleeves or long sleeves (weather depending of course). If it is a hot day, then the officers are allowed to choose between short sleeve and long sleeve shirts.
2. The use of force guideline for the lapd says that there are 3-4 levels of non lethal force authorized for officers to use before using lethal force. The criteria for each one is very specific, but for the one your mentioning which is a baton use, it depends on what the situation is. It is a part of the levels of non-lethal force so it can be used whenever the previous one before it has failed to keep the subject under control. 

3. Before the new Glock 17 was made the department issued sidearm, the m1911 chambered in a .45ACP caliber was the standard issue, but due to rising costs for .45ACP ammunition purchase back in the day and the lapd wanting to find a more efficient sidearm for their officers to use, the Glock 17 9mil and .45ACP versions were made available for officers to have as their sidearm, of course department policy does state that any officer may purchase their own personal sidearm and use it while on duty as long as it fits within department regulations for a sidearm.

4. each station has its own geographical area to patrol, so yes all officers from one station will patrol within their jurisdiction, but are allowed to respond out of district if a call requires multiple officers from nearby divisions to respond.

5. Since technical services is the primary mechanic for the LAPD and the citizens will usually frown upon any ramming of vehicles within city limits, its usually not allowed for them to do so. They are trained to use pit manuvers but only if conditions are good enough to preform the maneuver.

2. The use of force guideline for the lapd says that there are 3-4 levels of non lethal force authorized for officers to use before using lethal force. The criteria for each one is very specific, but for the one your mentioning which is a baton use, it depends on what the situation is. It is a part of the levels of non-lethal force so it can be used whenever the previous one before it has failed to keep the subject under control. 

 

Thanks for the answers! Is the Taser above or below the baton as a level of force applied? Since hitting someone with a baton will inflict quite a lot of physical injury, shouldn't the baton be used only as a last resort and only as a defensive weapon? What I want to say, are batons used to "soften" the suspect up before handcuffing or are only used for the officer to defend himself? I'm not judging, police officers love to use their batons on uncooperative citizens here in my country.

Thanks for the answers! Is the Taser above or below the baton as a level of force applied? Since hitting someone with a baton will inflict quite a lot of physical injury, shouldn't the baton be used only as a last resort and only as a defensive weapon? What I want to say, are batons used to "soften" the suspect up before handcuffing or are only used for the officer to defend himself? I'm not judging, police officers love to use their batons on uncooperative citizens here in my country.

When a baton is used in the correct way it shouldn't do much damage.

When a baton is used in the correct way it shouldn't do much damage.

You're most likely right about that, I have no experience with them so I only see them as clubs but I've looked around and there seems to be an art to it. :)

3. Before the new Glock 17 was made the department issued sidearm, the m1911 chambered in a .45ACP caliber was the standard issue, but due to rising costs for .45ACP ammunition purchase back in the day and the lapd wanting to find a more efficient sidearm for their officers to use, the Glock 17 9mil and .45ACP versions were made available for officers to have as their sidearm, of course department policy does state that any officer may purchase their own personal sidearm and use it while on duty as long as it fits within department regulations for a sidearm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Beretta 92FS authorized for duty use for a lengthy period of time?

You're most likely right about that, I have no experience with them so I only see them as clubs but I've looked around and there seems to be an art to it. :)

I have graduated the police academy and did the 8 hour block of instruction on the collapsible baton to get certified on it. If used correctly it shouldn't cause any serious injuries however there is a very real possibility of messing people up. You are essentially being hit with a metal pipe, it is going to hurt. There is a certain technique you are supposed to use when striking someone with the baton and you are supposed to target the arms and legs. The ideal target for the baton is the thigh since you want to hit something that is very meaty and has lots of mass for maximum effectiveness.

As for your question on whether the taser or the baton is a higher level in the force matrix, it depends on the agency however, most force matrices I have seen place the taser above or at the same level as the baton.

I have graduated the police academy and did the 8 hour block of instruction on the collapsible baton to get certified on it. If used correctly it shouldn't cause any serious injuries however there is a very real possibility of messing people up. You are essentially being hit with a metal pipe, it is going to hurt. There is a certain technique you are supposed to use when striking someone with the baton and you are supposed to target the arms and legs. The ideal target for the baton is the thigh since you want to hit something that is very meaty and has lots of mass for maximum effectiveness.

Yes that was my general perception of the police baton, non-lethal but hurts like hell and probably leaves some nasty bruises (+/- other injuries). I'm in medical school and I remember one doctor giving as an example for the Monteggia fracture, football hooligans who arrive at the hospital with these kind of injuries after being hit with batons, usually when they raise their arm and try to protect from being hit in the face (unintentionally of course :D); so it can deal a lot of damage if it's not used correctly. Earlier I looked for some info on how to use a baton and came across this video, what the teaches makes a lot of sense but I don't remember seeing anyone use those techniques, but as you mentioned I've seen plenty of times police officers or gendarms striking the thigh when using the baton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GruAdPZcBng

Edited September 10, 201510 yr by BogdanM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the Beretta 92FS authorized for duty use for a lengthy period of time?

@FCV96, for a while yes to replace the aging 1911 .45 in their inventory, but they found that the glock 17 tactical sidearm was a better choice for several reasons that even i dont know about

I have graduated the police academy and did the 8 hour block of instruction on the collapsible baton to get certified on it. If used correctly it shouldn't cause any serious injuries however there is a very real possibility of messing people up. You are essentially being hit with a metal pipe, it is going to hurt. There is a certain technique you are supposed to use when striking someone with the baton and you are supposed to target the arms and legs. The ideal target for the baton is the thigh since you want to hit something that is very meaty and has lots of mass for maximum effectiveness.

As for your question on whether the taser or the baton is a higher level in the force matrix, it depends on the agency however, most force matrices I have seen place the taser above or at the same level as the baton.

@I3ubba you are so right, thank you for clarifying what i figured was part of the right answer. The taser usage within the Los Angeles Police is usually placed within the same level or even below the baton since it fires the darts which are supposed to send i believe 120 or 20 volt charges to the subject.

The reason i had mentioned the baton as part of the levels of use of force application was because i was referencing part of the 1950's use of force application for the LAPD.