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Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Steele1925

I don't have a religion, but sometimes I feel there must be some sort of Creator behind everything, although evolution obviously is around us.

Honestly, i believe in Evolution.. mainly because it's more realistic than a god somehow creating a human. We came from the apes.. We have so many similarities/traits that it's ridiculous to believe otherwise.. hell, a few species of apes have been half wiped out because of Ebola.. never in my life have i heard of Ebola killing an animal.. However apes aren't just animals.. they are essentially humans with more fur and well no education. 

I don't see how a personal anecdote is supposed be convincing on this subject.

 

Genetic mutation is a function within evolution. Mutations that provide better conditions for survival (natural selection) are reproduced and the bridge between two distinct species can begin to be established. Your explanation of mutation is correct, but mutation is a driving force of evolution, not the overarching process. 

 

 

This chart shows it nicely: '>

 

(Didn't want to post the actual image, it's pretty big)

 

Cheers to you, good sir.

 

But again, we still have 0 proof of "Evolution". Elements within Evolution being true are not proof of it. Hence the "It only makes sense for 5 minutes" statement. In the same way that just because the Bible mentions Jerusalem, which is a real place, that doesn't prove that the Bible is true.

 

I'm actually fairly positive that there is a significant amount of evidence to support evolution (most of which is not observable, due to the incredible time span of which evolution takes place). And it is worth mentioning here that most scientific theories are just that - theories. It's the most credible and sensible ones (like the theory of evolution) that generally get accepted by everyone. I suppose you're right, there's no way to prove it, bit that's the exact same as most scientific ideas. Also, I could say likewise, there's no proof for your genetic mutation theory having occurred over such a long period of time with such significant results. However, I believe it to be accurate because as that fellow said before, genetic mutation is a significant piece of the evolutionary process.

 

PS: I'm absolutely sure that evolution has made sense to a significant portion of the population for more than 5 minutes as you claim.

Edited January 24, 201511 yr by Zelyth

If you're a forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man, then evolution is the way to go. If you still believe in invisible sky-god friends then i suggest you re-evaluate your life.

If you're a forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man, then evolution is the way to go. If you still believe in invisible sky-god friends then i suggest you re-evaluate your life.

Why do you have to be so rude to us religious people? Just because you don't believe in God, doesn't mean you are entitled to insult our beliefs. Sure, you have the freedom of expression, and I respect that, but there is really no need to insult us. We have different beliefs than you, so we must be wrong and need to re-evaluate our lives? That just seems a bit arrogant.

If you're a forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man, then evolution is the way to go. If you still believe in invisible sky-god friends then i suggest you re-evaluate your life.

 

You're missing the point, let's for the sake of arguement take God out of it. Religion has been around for how many a millennia and at the core ot it what does it represent. Community and Health. I don't see how any logical person would want to rid society of religion it's a great principle that gives people motivation to be the best and most pure version of themselves that they can possibly be, it distills very clear guidelines on how to live your life and interact with other people...

 

I do believe in both evolution and creation.

I believe in a supernatural thing which made everything! If the big bang started everything, then who made the hot, dense ball of gas?

The problem with religion is that they make the world go war!    ISIS
 
Without science, religion will be blind. Without religion, science would be lame. -Einstein

I believe in a supernatural thing which made everything! If the big bang started everything, then who made the hot, dense ball of gas?

 

Well, as I stated in another topic quite a while ago, the most recent theories about the Big Bang would be that the Big Bang we are refering to wouldn't be the first one, but the last of a long series of a repetitive process. As we know, our universe (the entirety of it even though it's not limited) is perpetually expanding, the galaxies are receding from each other, going always further. At some point, it would reach a critical limit, in which the entire universe would collapse on itself (a bit like a dying star turns into a supernova and a dark hole), and return to that microscopical particle of matter and pure energy, only to explode again, recreating another universe, expanding again.

 

Like the rest, it can't be proven, but it remains a very interesting theory nonetheless.

Edited January 24, 201511 yr by Hystery

Well, as I stated in another topic quite a while ago, the most recent theories about the Big Bang would be that the Big Bang we are refering to wouldn't be the first one, but the last of a long series of a repetitive process. As we know, our universe (the entirety of it even though it's not limited) is perpetually expanding, the galaxies are receding from each other, going always further. At some point, it would reach a critical limit, in which the entire universe would collapse on itself (a bit like a dying star turns into a supernova and a dark hole), and return to that microscopical particle of matter and pure energy, only to explode again, recreating another universe, expanding again.

 

Like the rest, it can't be proven, but it remains a very interesting theory nonetheless.

 

then f*ck science. 

just kidding. Scientists can't be so much smart, the universe is the thing that is still a mystery

But again, we still have 0 proof of "Evolution". Elements within Evolution being true are not proof of it. Hence the "It only makes sense for 5 minutes" statement. In the same way that just because the Bible mentions Jerusalem, which is a real place, that doesn't prove that the Bible is true.

This is rhetorical nonsense, evolution is observable and provable science, man has unlocked the world of genetics, plus we see evolution happening everywhere, remember the butterflies during the industrial revolution and how they change their skin color through genetic mutation so that they could camouflage with all the soot on the trees.

Neither 

You're missing the point, let's for the sake of arguement take God out of it. Religion has been around for how many a millennia and at the core ot it what does it represent. Community and Health. I don't see how any logical person would want to rid society of religion it's a great principle that gives people motivation to be the best and most pure version of themselves that they can possibly be, it distills very clear guidelines on how to live your life and interact with other people...

 

I do believe in both evolution and creation.

 

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, all I'm saying is that the religion concept has been taken over by the greedy and power-hungry who use it as a tool to control the masses and collect wealth. If you don't believe me, just look at the Pope or any religious authority- they preach about peace while condoning wars against those who don't believe 'their' ways, and talk about giving to the poor and living without wealth while in a church filled with more gold than Jay-Z's bathroom. It's the hypocrisy of most religions that grinds my gears and just doesn't redeem itself to me.

That wasn't the point I was trying to make, all I'm saying is that the religion concept has been taken over by the greedy and power-hungry who use it as a tool to control the masses and collect wealth. If you don't believe me, just look at the Pope or any religious authority- they preach about peace while condoning wars against those who don't believe 'their' ways, and talk about giving to the poor and living without wealth while in a church filled with more gold than Jay-Z's bathroom. It's the hypocrisy of most religions that grinds my gears and just doesn't redeem itself to me.

 

In a nutshell that's why I personally don't believe in going to church, nor have I ever paid attention to the pope. Any time money is involved there's going to be corruption, churches that broadcast on TV and/or make serious bank just rub me the wrong way... (It seems hyprocritical if you pay attention to the word as written.) However I do think that the mass hatred that allot of atheist show towards religion is unjust, most of the time they want to use Warmongering extremist as a reason against religion. Which is just illogical. If we were to crucify everything that's ever been used as an excuse to get away with murder we'd be in a real mess, and religion wouldn't be the biggest scape goat.

 

 

If you're a forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man, then evolution is the way to go. If you still believe in invisible sky-god friends then i suggest you re-evaluate your life.

 

Your very words now. Forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man... Basically that's a polite way of saying any rational human would believe in evolution.

Which I would have just left be had it not immediately and for no good reason been followed by. "If you still believe in invisible Sky-god friends then I suggest you re-evaluate your life."

... That's straight forward, and kind of hard to miss-interpret. Skygod friends = God and re-evaluating your life. Well yea you said it. I don't see how that can be taken any other way.

What you just said  is "If your rational and don't have imaginary friends you will believe in Evolution, and if you do believe in imaginary friends you might want to seek a shrink."

I'm not stupid and seeing how you went through so much effort to nicely word your intentions I'm not going to pretend like you are either.

So how is that not 1.) Insulting and 2.) No where does that post indicate the reason you're opposed to religion is because a few bad examples out of a few billion has distorted your idea of what religion really is..

 

A few billion or something like 2/7 of the world's population isn't irrational... It's a widely held belief that's been documented and highly studied for a few thousand years now. In all that time no one can either dis-credit it or prove that it is all completely real. That's why its founded on belief, what you can say and its not really debatable is that the important historical events that are depicted in the bible (I'm not talking walking on water, and miracles, but actual history.) all happened.

 

What I really hate about this thread is the way the OP led this into Religion vs Atheists who's view is right? There's no middle ground here, even though as indicated in this thread more religious minded people believe in the possibility of Evolution then you might think. Science and Religion aren't exclusive things, you can believe in both, anyone who says otherwise is foolish, and i won't even have that winded debate here. There should have been a third option.

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Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Steele1925

 

 

Your very words now. Forward-looking individual who believes in the progress of man... Basically that's a polite way of saying any rational human would believe in evolution.

 

 

 

 

Rational people can choose what they want to believe of course, I didn't say that they had to follow a certain system of belief such as atheism. Spirituality has always been part of humanity and explains a lot about concepts we still use (luck, destiny etc.) but we can't prove they exist or not.

 

Evolution, in contrast to most spiritual beliefs, is much easier to prove as we have physical evidence and actually something to work with (fossils etc.) whereas religion is a series of acts which may or may not have taken place, and are much harder to prove thanks to the inadequate historical records of the classical period. 

 

As for the whole religious movement, what needs to be taken into consideration is that, until very recently, people didn't have much of a clue about how the world worked and thus turned to priests to provide an explanation of life, and as such religious leaders could make up any old shtick and make it their religion's creed as long as it suited their ends.

 

The real answer to the whole religion-science conundrum is simply, we don't know. Both things are still mostly unexplored and need a few decades more of scientific research to prove the origins of life were intelligent design or millennia of evolutionary progress.

 

I can understand how my words can be taken the wrong way, but what I really meant was that religion, even though it can co-exist with scientific outlooks (humanist movement etc.) is really more of a social construct meant to establish a social hierarchy and order (citizens -> priests -> Leader) in the period before organised government, and, as mentioned earlier, to extract as much wealth as possible for those on the top of the pile. This to me just seems wrong, as exploiting people's beliefs for profit is clearly against the very rules of most organised religion.

No sir, you are wrong. Evolution to this very day has not been proven and takes quite a leap of faith to believe in. Either that or you don't understand the theory of Evolution.

 

For the butterflies.... "Special cells in the skin act as "detectors" and these cells "respond" by adjusting the amount and types of pigments - which in turn results in a color or pattern change. Scientists are not exactly sure how this works, but there is a lot of interest in figuring it out." Again, they're unsure how this works. You cannot just stamp Evolution on something without losing credibility.

 

http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=1963

The claimed "evidence" that Evolutionists speak of is the very same "evidence" that I got when I asked my speaker at my local church 30 years ago for proof of the events in the Bible. "You just have to believe" is the answer I got from them. While Evolutionists typically just start screaming "FALSE, WE KNOW EVERYTHING, DON'T ASK QUESTIONS YOU RACIST"!!! 

 

The common ground for the both of them is the "Take my word for it" stance. I realize that Evolution sounds very appealing and credible when someone is teaching it to you, however, we can not replicate it or test their theory in any way, therefore it has no evidence to back it up. Try asking someone at any church you drive by for evidence in the Bible, they'll give you the same speech an Evolutionist would to make it sound convincing until you realize that we cannot test their theory.

 

We can however, test Genetic Mutation which you've already mentioned is part of the Theory of Evolution. That's great and all but again, it only proves Mutation, not Evolution. If I told you I'm a male, who is 3,000 ft tall weighing in at 5,000 lbs and only 35 years old (wish I still was), would you believe me simply because I actually am a male so the rest must also be true? Absolutely not.

 

Either way, I appreciate the clean debate but I just realized I'm having this debate on a website that's not really appropriate for such discussions. I will personally no longer be replying on this thread. I thank you once more, have a good day and happy gaming :)

 

Everything which you have just said is incredibly dense. I'm not even going to waste my time responding to every single void and absolutely silly point that you just made. Good day.

I think the real question here is 'do dogs have brains'? 

 

Hmmm....Illuminati Confirmed.

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Edited June 26, 20169 yr by Steele1925