I don't get it? We are all humans right? This guy in the Video who kill himself is just like us? He talks, he has Lungs? He has 2 Arms? He has 2 legs? He has 2 eyes? Just because a girl wants to be a guy we have to disown him? Its kinda sad how people cant sigh something so little to help a human being just like you and me, if you jewish people like god and such, god made everybody to be differnt right? So its kinda sad that you guys can't accept another human being to be a little differnt right? It maked me sick to some people like this, its like calling somebody who is Retarted not normal, or a Blind person stupid because he cant read? Now i am not forcing you to sigh this, but so some faith for this young man, he killed himself......I wish i could sigh this 100 times over.

I hope you guys know, arguing with others isn't supporting your cause what-so-ever! If someone doesn't want to sign it, so be it! I hate when topics like these are created because people go against each other and call each other names. 1st. it isn't very needed, and 2nd, the things you say are very childish, and are very immature. START ACTING LIKE ADULTS! You are not looking very professional when you say this stuff.

 

My god, I sometimes feel embarrassed to be the same species as you guys! SMH!

Thatonehick, I see no reason for you to be ashamed to be a human, we can all act like adults when we start treating other humams with equality, I honestly see no reason why someone wouldn't sign this petition.

Also just a note, I'm sorry if I seemed like I was bossing people around with my previous post that was hidden, I was just angry.

This entire thread is cancer.

I like how you guys are making it a POINT to say you are not signing but "thanks for the offer".....that's kind of insulting in and of itself, I mean why not just see what it is and then move on (without a comment) if it's not something you wish to sign? Hmmm...I know, a hard challenge to take on.

 

however signing petitions is a wonderful thing you dont really ever know what your signing where therre putting your signiature and whos keeping track. this is not to disrespect your petition im just very careful. although i did tell my parents about that thing about converting your child sexuality thing or from what i read up top. i just love how parents dont love their child arleady to understand their differences that is something that needs to be embraced with love and affection not spite hatred and being different.

I watch shemale porn..how the hell could i not sign that? :D

 

4 real tho. It's sad to see this stuff. I'm defenitly NOT a liberal. People that chat with me know that. But this is just not right.

 

 

this has gotten way out of hand, I dont see how its a problem to advertise a good cause, but when people start debating; shit hits the fan! @Chester I understand you may be emotional for something, but if someones not going to sign the petition, they wont! and I dont mean to be coming off against this, because of my tone, Im just against the debating. like I said you either put your name down or you dont. if your not getting a likable amount of support here share it on social media and get as many signatures as you can. count me as one!

this has gotten way out of hand, I dont see how its a problem to advertise a good cause, but when people start debating; shit hits the fan! @Chester I understand you may be emotional for something, but if someones not going to sign the petition, they wont! and I dont mean to be coming off against this, because of my tone, Im just against the debating. like I said you either put your name down or you dont. if your not getting a likable amount of support here share it on social media and get as many signatures as you can. count me as one!

It's not even debating... Debating is constructive arguments, where everyone has a number of points for their belief, and they are stating the points as convincingly as possible, in a professional yet friendly manner... This is NOT a debate. It is a -everyone-for-themselves- all-out flame war. The primary difference is that a debate is constructive, but a flame war is negative and disempowering for all involved, whether it be the participants or the witnesses, plus it achieves no purpose other than tearing the community apart.

So how does everyone think of the torture methods used by the CIA to gain info from terrorists?

So how does everyone think of the torture methods used by the CIA to gain info from terrorists?

 

You're just baiting and way off topic. It's a long stretch from plausible bad parenting to the way our Government treats known terrorists.

 

On topic I guess I don't know enough about the subject to give a real opinion, I watched the first minute of the video and I wouldn't call forcing children to act a certain way as criminal or inhumane in the least bit. That's pretty much the whole purpose of parenting to to guide children and teach them right from wrong. At the end of the day we're all raised according to very different beliefs that have been bestowed by our parents which they more than likely have learned from their parents and so forth. Having said that the whole subject is much deeper and complicated than just this one issue. Because in order to address the issue you have to adhere to what the underlying problems and or beliefs of each side are that leads to this treatment in the first place. Is it really genetic, is it environmental, etc. There's no scientific certainty as to what leads to people going against societal norms. Which is why personal beliefs are the only real argument that's ever heard in this debates, and everyone gets so wound up. Take your moral guidelines and religious beliefs out of the equation and there's simply nothing to debate.

 

Having said all that I personally don't care what other people like or enjoy in their personal lives behind closed doors and all that. Their not forcing anything upon me so why should we impose our beliefs on anyone else. I believe in personal freedom plain and simple. So long as your freedom doesn't impede on other people's rights or endanger someone else's lives I say have fun doing what ever be it drugs, sex, or any other vice.

Edited January 20, 201511 yr by ItzAwfulWaffle

You're just baiting and way off topic. It's a long stretch from plausible bad parenting to the way our Government treats known terrorists.

 

On topic I guess I don't know enough about the subject to give a real opinion, I watched the first minute of the video and I wouldn't call forcing children to act a certain way as criminal or inhumane in the least bit. That's pretty much the whole purpose of parenting to to guide children and teach them right from wrong. At the end of the day we're all raised according to very different beliefs that have been bestowed by our parents which they more than likely have learned from their parents and so forth. Having said that the whole subject is much deeper and complicated than just this one issue. Because in order to address the issue you have to adhere to what the underlying problems and or beliefs of each side are that leads to this treatment in the first place. Is it really genetic, is it environmental, etc. There's no scientific certainty as to what leads to people going against societal norms. Which is why personal beliefs are the only real argument that's ever heard in this debates, and everyone gets so wound up. Take your moral guidelines and religious beliefs out of the equation and there's simply nothing to debate.

 

Having said all that I personally don't care what other people like or enjoy in their personal lives behind closed doors and all that. Their not forcing anything upon me so why should we impose our beliefs on anyone else. I believe in personal freedom plain and simple. So long as your freedom doesn't impede on other people's rights or endanger someone else's lives I say have fun doing what ever be it drugs, sex, or any other vice.

The point I was trying to make is torture is torture, and everyone is human. Its not fair if you consider the "torture" they talked about in the video bad, but the actual torture the government does is ok just because they are terrorists. Now with that being said, I fully support the CIA and how they got their information, and I do not consider putting ice on a kids hand to be torture.

It's a free country. There are numerous outlets he could have turned to to seek help, or wait less than a year and move out; suicide is a coward's choice. Many people willingly attend conversion therapy and support it. We're gonna ban it, because a 17 year old couldn't handle the stress of it?

 

What are we condemning here? The parents forcing him to go, or the fact this exists? Think about that, because many people decide to proceed with that therapy on their own free will.

Edited January 20, 201511 yr by Pavelow

It's a free country. There are numerous outlets he could have turned to to seek help, or wait less than a year and move out; suicide is a coward's choice. Many people willingly attend conversion therapy and support it. We're gonna ban it, because a 17 year old couldn't handle the stress of it?

What are we condemning here? The parents forcing him to go, or the fact this exists? Think about that, because many people decide to proceed with that therapy on their own free will.

You're not actually justifying this are you? This person was forced to go to therapy, as said already, conversion therapy is a form of abuse, this poor girl was forced to go to this therapy against her will, that is abuse and that is why people are taking action, I hope you realize that no one should be forced to change their sexuality, also this is not cowardly as you presume it to be, you don't know the awful pain this person went through, why did these people force him to go this therapy in the first place? I think you don't know the full story, please take some time and watch the video, then you might understand.

It's a free country. There are numerous outlets he could have turned to to seek help, or wait less than a year and move out; suicide is a coward's choice. Many people willingly attend conversion therapy and support it. We're gonna ban it, because a 17 year old couldn't handle the stress of it?

 

What are we condemning here? The parents forcing him to go, or the fact this exists? Think about that, because many people decide to proceed with that therapy on their own free will.

The issue at hand, at least for those who are using this thread about the issue and not to shove their opinions up others asses, is that this kid was forced by his parents to attend something he does not want to attend due to his own beliefs. 

------

Regardless of if you support homosexuality or trans or bestiality for all i care, there should still be an ethical standard all people and all parents adhere to and it is very clear this standard was violated by the behavior of the parents.

 

On another side of things, why should we ban conversion therapy because of an incident like this? As said, some people do want to change who they are and they should be supported just as much as those who do not want to change should be supported. 

 

Whether you are progay or against it, you should still let the little piece of tolerant human inside of you out to acknowledge no matter what you support all people (especially children) should have the best environment possible to make their own choices. 

 

People who attempt to define other people's futures are often referred to as fascists, dictators, cult leaders etc. A few names of which that come to mind would be Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Franco, Mussolini etc so keep that in mind when you want to cram your beliefs down anothers throat :) 

/rant

 

People who attempt to define other people's futures are often referred to as fascists, dictators, cult leaders etc. A few names of which that come to mind would be Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Franco, Mussolini etc so keep that in mind when you want to cram your beliefs down anothers throat :) 

/rant

 

You're being extreme. It's the role of a parent to not just set a good example, but to also guide their children towards a successful and prosperous life. Or to put it bluntly to attempt to define their child's future for the best/better outcome. While the topic of gay/les/trans is much more tolerant today, anyone who is this way whether by choice or birth (Not going to argue the topic here.) is going to have a rougher time in life, just due to the fact it's so much against societal norms, and there's a good amount of hatred/distaste from the general public. So why would a parent want that for their child, for them to go through life with a permanent disadvantage just because of their life choices? Especially when some people strongly believe with all their might that it's a choice that's been made by their child due to their environment. If a kid goes goes through a stage in their life where they start making poor life choices, Stealing, Fighting, Drug Use, and a parent used similar methods to address the situation (Isolating them from their peers, forced counseling, hell even whipping their ass on a regular basis.) this wouldn't be an issue now would it.(Hell they made a “Reality” TV Series where they put kids in jail for 24 hours and use scare tactics, real psychological manipulation to fix the problem.) But because we're talking about civil rights for a minority group everything has to be overly exaggerated and cross examined.

At the end of the day it's the parent's choice to decide what's right for their children based on their beliefs.

I skipped over half the thread, so I may have missed a change in pace.....

 

But why. Why are we discussing and arguing over region on a forum for a great GTA4 Massive Gameplay Modification.

 

Anything worse, and we'd be dragging politics into this.

 

Half of these comments I see are simply baiting a response. If you sign or don't sign, regardless of your opinion on LGBT, why would you comment if you did or didn't? You're either looking for a fight, or you're looking for recognition for a "good deed"

 

Quite frankly none of you should have said if you did or didn't sign in the first place. The only comments that should have came up was about the humanity, legality, and maybe even a "thanks for posting this man!" to whoever the OP was. This should not have turned into an argument. and no one should have said if they did or didn't sign.

 

 

As I said before. Why say "I signed" and "I will not sign?" 

 

You're either A) looking for recognition for doing what you believe to be, the right thing.(Are people incabable of doing the right thing without expecting recognition?)

Or you're B) looking to start an argument.

You're either A) looking for recognition for doing what you believe to be, the right thing.(Are people incabable of doing the right thing without expecting recognition?)

Or you're B) looking to start an argument.

 

Or C) You don't hide your opinion and are proud of who you are, what you believe in and your opinions. That's my case. I said I signed because I adhere to this petition and openly claims this kind of therapy is a torture for those who did not ask for it. Why would I mute myself when some people come here and brag about how being LGBT is a sin for their religion or whatever it is?

Or C) You don't hide your opinion and are proud of who you are, what you believe in and your opinions. That's my case. I said I signed because I adhere to this petition and openly claims this kind of therapy is a torture for those who did not ask for it. Why would I mute myself when some people come here and brag about how being LGBT is a sin for their religion or whatever it is?

Why mute yourself? Because it prevents large scale religious and political based flamewars.

 

And no, I don't really buy it. Stating an opinion, is what I mentioned earlier. So You can feel free to state your opinion. However, why say "Signed?" You didn't address that.

 

What? You're proud and want to state that you signed it? Are you that egotistical?

 

If you couldn't have posted saying that you signed it. And if you couldn't tell anyone if you signed it. Would you still have signed it?

You're not actually justifying this are you? This person was forced to go to therapy, as said already, conversion therapy is a form of abuse, this poor girl was forced to go to this therapy against her will, that is abuse and that is why people are taking action, I hope you realize that no one should be forced to change their sexuality, also this is not cowardly as you presume it to be, you don't know the awful pain this person went through, why did these people force him to go this therapy in the first place? I think you don't know the full story, please take some time and watch the video, then you might understand.

First thing's first. It's a "He".  The law recognizes you as what you biologically are. Doesn't matter what he thinks he is.

 

Justifying what? How can you say it's abuse, when numerous people decide to go on their own free will because they want change? And yes, suicide is a coward's choice. Doesn't matter for what reason. There are numerous outlets to go to to get help. If you decide to kill yourself, I really have no pity for you. You could have gotten help, except you took the easy way out. Just because one 17 year old boy decides to kill himself instead of seek help, DOES NOT JUSTIFY condemning a perfectly legitimate business, that many people decide to attend because they want to change. 

First thing's first. It's a "He".  The law recognizes you as what you biologically are. Doesn't matter what he thinks he is.

 

Justifying what? How can you say it's abuse, when numerous people decide to go on their own free will because they want change? And yes, suicide is a coward's choice. Doesn't matter for what reason. There are numerous outlets to go to to get help. If you decide to kill yourself, I really have no pity for you. You could have gotten help, except you took the easy way out. Just because one 17 year old boy decides to kill himself instead of seek help, DOES NOT JUSTIFY condemning a perfectly legitimate business, that many people decide to attend because they want to change. 

 

First things first, you can ask the law to actually change your legal gender and completely change from male to female on your papers, or the other way around as long as you provide proofs that you are now anatomically of that gender and psychiatric testimonies attesting you are actually acting like this gender in your everyday life. So YES, what he thinks matters. And even though, for freak sake, we are talking about a human being, what he thinks ALWAYS matters, we are not in some kind of dictatorship where people have no freedom. It's also kind of weird for a US citizen (who are always bragging about freedom) to say that what someone thinks doesn't matter, it should matter.

 

And then, we are saying it's an abuse TO PEOPLE THAT ARE FORCED TO DO THIS THERAPY BY SOMEONE ELSE. Sorry for the caps, but apparently you have trouble getting that point. To make things simple for you, I'll make an analogy. Let's imagine you love chocolate. But in this world, loving chocolate is frowned upon because everyone loves vanilla. Do you think it'd be normal to torture you, for example like in the video, placing ice blocks on your fingers to hurt you when you see a picture of chocolate to assimilate the pain to chocoloate, to force you to hate chocolate by deep reflex and love vanilla instead? I don't think it is, because everyone is free to be what they want. Who are they disturbing if they want to be gay, bisexual, transgender? Does that affect your life? No? So why should they be tortured (BECAUSE IT IS TORTURE, BOTH PHYSICALLY AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY) just to bend to the view of someone else? That makes no sense at all, if the US are the land of freedom, then they should be free to be who they want.

 

And I won't even adress your issue about suicide, it's not the topic, and I find it perfectly disgusting and inhuman.