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Lee10

The CIA and the interrogation methods

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I added a debate tag because torture is something that has been around for thousands of years and we're still using it today, I want to know your guys opoioin on the CIA and their methods, and do you think torture is acceptable?

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/12/psychologists-cia-torture-report

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/10/cia-interrogation-chief-rectal-feeding-is-news-to-me.html

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/cia-torture-report/flat-wrong-big-bucks-torture-teacher-slams-cia-report-n265656

"The Senate Intelligence Committee's summary of its report on the CIA's interrogation practices found that the agency "provided inaccurate information to the White House, Congress, the Justice Department, the CIA inspector general, the media and the American public." [The report is here.]

Reaction to the summary's release was swift.


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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I don't agree with torture at all, it's wrong and in no way do I see it being justified, I stand strongly by my statement, how many innocents have been killed because the CIA *thought* they had information, this kind of stuff infuriates me because this is a violation of human rights.


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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I can't say I have an opinion. Let me explain why.

 

I've personally seen gruesome images of torture (abu ghraib being a prime torture candidate) and learned about the methods behind torture. What torture works best? Physical pain and life deprivation? Or exploiting your enemies physiological weaknesses like their family or religion to get them to "Crack"? Both have proved to work.

 

Now, as unpopular as it may be here, I will stand and defend the CIA (Doesn't mean this torture was justified, I'm just not in the mood to read a 500+ page report ATM).

 

Let me answer a question with a question. If a possible terrorist known to be associated with a group that might have intelligence on an impending ticking dirty bomb in New York City, and just like that you could stop it, and save the lives of millions, would you? Does he have rights, or does the rights of the majority for safety outweigh this individual's right to liberty? 

 

I think it's a thin line, walked every day by Police and Military in different ways. The police is a little more of does this man have drugs, did he just kill a man, or is he going to go home and assault his girlfriend? I'd like to find out, but he has rights too. 

 

I think in many of these cases, it must be judged on a case by case basis. I am all in favor of people's rights to liberty and security, rights and so forth, but sometimes exceptions have to be made.

 

Sometimes, it's better to be safe than sorry. Which I believe this CIA response was post 9/11. 

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I don't agree with torture at all, it's wrong and in no way do I see it being justified, I stand strongly by my statement, how many innocents have been killed because the CIA *thought* they had information, this kind of stuff infuriates me because this is a violation of human rights.

 I agree, I just wish the CIA would do a better job at keeping it confidential. Do what's necessary to keep our country safe, but don't tell us what you're doing otherwise it will be judged by the public.


It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

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thing is that torture is a very ineffective method since the person being tortured will give whatever answer to stop the torturing whether he knows what he's talking about or not. 


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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I don't have a issue if they do to this is a terrorist. If they did it to non terrorists then im going to be annoyed with them

 

Well, whatever they have to do to keep us safe, I am okay with it. Now, if these people were innocent, I'd have an issue.

 

Yes, because we should throw away rights in "certain" cases like the stupid "National Security" reason...Just like we should allow our own government to spy on us and gather irreverent intelligence on us on our day to day lives to help "protect" us from ourselves with no right, or valid reason. Once we start giving up our rights, it's a long slippery slope to losing pretty much all of them. (I'm not saying we should over throw the government or start a civil was...i'm just saying use some common sense)

 

thing is that torture is a very ineffective method since the person being tortured will give whatever answer to stop the torturing whether he knows what he's talking about or not. 

Actually....not gonna lie....torture is a VERY good way to gather information....is it right....no....is it needed in very rare times...yes.

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Yes, because we should throw away rights in "certain" cases like the stupid "National Security" reason...Just like we should allow our own government to spy on us and gather irreverent intelligence on us on our day to day lives to help "protect" us from ourselves with no right, or valid reason. Once we start giving up our rights, it's a long slippery slope to losing pretty much all of them. (I'm not saying we should over throw the government or start a civil was...i'm just saying use some common sense)

 

Actually....not gonna lie....torture is a VERY good way to gather information....is it right....no....is it needed in very rare times...yes.

Terrorists don't have rights.

 

 

 

EDIT:1000 POSTS :D :D :D :D

Edited by gamerdanger99

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The things being done reporters and even people within their own communities in the middle east far outweighs any report released regarding the CIA's methods. 

What's done to keep the greater populace safe is what's done and I am not gonna be one to judge those who make tough decisions and handle tough actions in order to ensure I can go to school everyday. 

I agree it is interesting that it is public and they do have to deal w/accountability but the whole world knows every nation has interrogation methods and like I said, IMO, if you look at what is done to people in the Middle East I sure as hell am not going to question the CIA. 

 

If I had a relative who turned to terrorism and was tortured by the government in order to protect the nation not a problem, as said though, I think the line falls on whether the person truly is guilty of terroristic acts or associations and if not who is held accountable for actions that they may have felt were justified. 


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This is absolutely disgusting.  What makes these human beings any different from those in the criminal justice system, where the 8th Amendment (Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted) protects them from things like this? How is it really any different? Aside from the fact that the people the CIA does this to are never charged with any crime, and can be held indefinitely, for entirely arbitrary reasons. This kind of behavior is in direct conflict with the spirit of the Constitution and the values the country was founded upon. If anything, this just fuels hostile extremist thought against us. Blowback, a notion invented by the CIA, is very real. What better incentive to commit retaliatory acts and treat any American prisoners in a manner similar to this, or worse.  

Edited by SIR_Sergeant

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This is absolutely disgusting.  What makes these human beings any different from those in the criminal justice system, where the 8th Amendment (Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted) protects them from things like this? How is it really any different? Aside from the fact that the people the CIA does this to are never charged with any crime, and can be held indefinitely, for entirely arbitrary reasons. This kind of behavior is in direct conflict with the spirit of the Constitution and the values the country was founded upon. If anything, this just fuels hostile extremist thought against us. Blowback, a notion invented by the CIA, is very real. What better incentive to commit retaliatory acts and treat any American prisoners in a manner similar to this, or worse.  

 

The Constitution only applies to United States citizens, and the vast majority of interrogation subjects are not Americans.

 

I think you're thinking of the Geneva Convention's protection of Prisoners of War, but many of these people do not classify as POW's either due to Bush's decision to call them enemy combatants. 

 

To strike the final nail in the coffin, all CIA blacksites are not on US Territory, so American law does not apply there. 

 

The best way to look at it is we kidnap civilians of their own country and fly them to a country we control to interrogate them. 

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CIA always did whatever they wanted, and they'll keep doing so. Even the president doesn't know what they do or what happens in their office. I actually never understood how they managed to gain so much power and influence.

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thing is that torture is a very ineffective method since the person being tortured will give whatever answer to stop the torturing whether he knows what he's talking about or not. 

Like a wise man once said

 

"Torture is meanless as a way of extracting information. Torture is done for the person doing the torturing or the person giving orders to the person torturing." Trevor Phillips, 2013.

 

Joking aside, torture is always going to be done. It is an effective way of getting information and any government, CIA or not will likely use it as it is a good way of getting info from terrorists, spies etc. Although it is wrong. Maybe we can find a more effective way to "interrogate" terrorists.

Edited by JASONROCKS1998

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The Constitution only applies to United States citizens, and the vast majority of interrogation subjects are not Americans.

 

I think you're thinking of the Geneva Convention's protection of Prisoners of War, but many of these people do not classify as POW's either due to Bush's decision to call them enemy combatants. 

 

To strike the final nail in the coffin, all CIA blacksites are not on US Territory, so American law does not apply there. 

 

The best way to look at it is we kidnap civilians of their own country and fly them to a country we control to interrogate them. 

 

I'm aware that the Constitution only applies to U.S. citizens, I was drawing a comparison of standards. I'm not thinking of the Geneva Convention. U.S. law may not apply where these blacksites are located, but that doesn't mean human decency and moral standards do. To say that is the "best way to look at it" is, in my opinion, completely wrong for the reasons I've already stated. 

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Like a wise man once said

 

"Torture is meanless as a way of extracting information. Torture is done for the person doing the torturing or the person giving orders to the person torturing." Trevor Phillips, 2013.

 

Joking aside, torture is always going to be done. It is an effective way of getting information and any government, CIA or not will likely use it as it is a good way of getting info from terrorists, spies etc. Although it is wrong. Maybe we can find a more effective way to "interrogate" terrorists.

I agree, there should be a much more effective way of getting information rather than just torturing somebody. 


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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 I agree, I just wish the CIA would do a better job at keeping it confidential. Do what's necessary to keep our country safe, but don't tell us what you're doing otherwise it will be judged by the public.

 

psh yeah whatever keeps our country "safe" those who trade liberty for security deserve NEITHER bet you didn't know that bin laden was a cia asset and that al queda was created by the cia....what happens when the government decides to label patriots Christians terrorists? will torture still be ok? this site is full immoral people yet they claim to be for justice...yeah okay but that's not a surprise considering you have criminal in your user name

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Yes, because we should throw away rights in "certain" cases like the stupid "National Security" reason...Just like we should allow our own government to spy on us and gather irreverent intelligence on us on our day to day lives to help "protect" us from ourselves with no right, or valid reason. Once we start giving up our rights, it's a long slippery slope to losing pretty much all of them. (I'm not saying we should over throw the government or start a civil was...i'm just saying use some common sense)

 

Actually....not gonna lie....torture is a VERY good way to gather information....is it right....no....is it needed in very rare times...yes.

This is about torture, I don't see the correlation to the NSA or gathering info from citizens. Maybe I am not getting your point?

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Another talking point about this whole report is that most of what the US does is psychological and much more humane than what other third world countries due to their prisoners.

 

Think about it. Waterboarding is perhaps one of the worst things they did. However when you compare it to other countries methods: say Africa where they routinely chop off family members limbs and eventually kill them just for information. Our technique isn't that awful. Or Iran/Iraq where they are known to put sharpened sticks underneath your fingernails. Or Japan during World War II where they would march you for hundreds of miles and routinely beat you along the way. 

 

Am I saying that what the CIA did is right? No but as has been said before it's on a case by case basis. Osama's 2nd Lieutenant is in your custody and he has just planted a dirty bomb somewhere in Manhattan. You caught him right after he planted it but you don't know where. Is waterboarding acceptable? If it's not what are you going to do to obtain the information?

 

It's real easy to criticize something that's ugly but until you offer a more viable alternative what choice do you have?

 

Also where is the backlash to the politicians, who were told that this report would probably cause a backlash and possibly an attack harming Americans and they just decide to release it anyway? The only thing that has saved them is that there hasn't been another attack yet. I'm personally more angry at the politicians airing our dirty laundry to the world and inviting more people to hate and harm us.   

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