I'm not trying to belittle people who disagree with me. Disagree with me all you want. If I wanted my head in an echo chamber, I would be elsewhere. I understood the point and I disagree with your premise. You can't equate the two to set up an argument and then when I point out the absurdity of the comparison, then cry wolf about 'the point' you were making.
Again, we agree to disagree. If the federal government tried to take away my rights, then yes... guns are required. Does everything political require force? I would hope not! However when a government tries to take away your freedom, then absolutely. You can't separate the two so easily. This is a major difference in the culture of Americans vs those found elsewhere. Our short history (in comparison with the rest of the world) is predicated on fighting government tyranny when it encroaches on our inherent rights.
I didn't try to put the EU and guns together to prove a point. That is another lie. The conversation was about taking away guns and the loss of freedoms that could ensue. You popped off with a comment about how that would apply to most of Europe. I popped off with a comment about how giving away your sovereignty hardly makes you a glaring example of freedom. On and on until now. There was no vain hope to prove a point... I merely demonstrated how someone from a country who freely gives away their rights is hardly in a situation to opine on what freedom should look like. Stick to facts, please.
Where did I say that? There is a huge difference between taxing a populace for government to function and taxing certain groups of the populace to give it to others. One is an intrinsic requirement for a government to exist and the other is theft. Any requirement of the government beyond it's function of existing and providing national defense is a quickly graying area. There are many instances of the U.S. government stealing and redistributing wealth and I find it abhorrent. We, however, have just dipped our toes into the pool that is socialism. There are a series of reasons why Donald Trump got elected as our president and this is one of them. A large portion of us are tired of the slow encroachment towards socialism. It is the antithesis to what made this country the land of freedom and wealth that it is today. We are losing those things daily as we sink towards government models that you might find in, say, France. You might like armed thieves stealing from you and yours, but we don't.
Wait. So because I'm intelligent and can answer a few questions and correct a lot of falsehoods, I'm a know-it-all? As far as the tell of the tape on who was right and who was wrong... it is all here for anyone to see. I've been wrong about tons of things... just not here in this thread. You have. So ad hominem away, it doesn't change anything that has been said.
Okay. So after getting proved wrong, you just move the goal post. Clever as a finger in the door!
You can't decrease gun ownership over all 50 states to get your stats. It cannot happen without a complete ratification of the second amendment which would just start another civil war. So you are asking for stats that are impossible to give. If I asked for stats of every newborn baby in France being murdered for the next ten years, and what the growth rate of your country would be for the following ten years... you couldn't answer it. That is what you are asking for: an impossible scenario.
Australia is a VERY interesting case study and I'll gladly have that debate with you, but I think that would need its own thread. The mandatory buy-back changed a lot and it isn't what most people see it as.
I also love how you take such a precarious perch on your moral high ground calling us savages and hoping we would learn to control ourselves. Amazingly snide! <clap>
Yes, it is... when every data point we have available says the exact opposite. You can armchair postulate all you want, but there are hundreds of thousands of cases EACH YEAR where armed citizens use their firearms to save lives, stop crime, defend themselves, and stop mass shootings, yet there is a complete absence of data to backup your desire for gun owners to be the savages you so desire us to be.
The "I didn't beat her to begin with" was the exact answer I gave to your loaded, biased, and inane questions and statements. That was my point. If you preload a question filled with your statistically inaccurate fluff, you can't demand an answer. The answer is simply: you preloaded it with your biased drivel.
Wait... so because I used a right leaning site, you pull out theguardian?!? Hell, why not throw in snopes, vox, and huffpo as well. Really?
There is a difference between using a site that leans in a direction (as all do), and using a propaganda machine that contradicts itself over and over again.
No one ever said that all policemen everywhere in this country are a monolith and behave and believe in the same way!!!!one111!!1 Quote me saying that. You can't? Interesting how you keep telling me all the things that I said and yet you can quote none of them. That dang interwebs and it's finicky magics!
That doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of police fully support the 2nd amendment, conceal carriers, etc. That has been proven several times now. Finding anecdotal evidence doesn't change the fact that the majority agree with us, not you and your beliefs. Even your anecdotal evidence had the guy saying he believes in the right to bear arms! Rofl!
Ad hominem. More of the same.
You are right! Everyone... a moment of silence! Well, sort of. Your facts are right, but your conclusion is wrong. The problem is, he was the exception, not the rule. No system is perfect and finding the balance between allowing free citizens the ability to express those rights and preventing these types of tragedies from happening is a slippery slope. While I wish that it hadn't happened, I still don't believe that restricting our rights more than they already are is a worthy trade-off. Again, this was the exception.
Still, you don't understand what a right is. A right means that nothing should prohibit my usage of whatever that right is. No one said that a right was a need. No one said that everyone should carry a gun since it is their right to do so. YET AGAIN, where did I say that. Quote it? You can't? Interesting...
What does it matter what you do with your water if it is your right to have it. This is the perfect example where you misunderstand what a right is.Your right is to have it... not you can have it as long as you do what we say, when we say, how we say it. That isn't a right, that is a prequalified permission. Permission given by your government and nothing at all like what an inherent right is.
I also made it clear that I was asking if you would balk at them telling you, not due to anything other than their authority ... a completely different question than the intentionally twisted version you gave back. Again... please stop telling me what I said when I never said the things you imply. It is obvious you have to subvert my words. Why? You claim I say things I never did. You pretend I asked a different question than the mock one you describe. Why? Are my words and questions too hard to answer and reply back to without your tinkering with them? Interesting...
Famous last words. You can find it dumb all you want, it doesn't change the reason why the 2nd amendment was written as a protection from the government.
Wait. Again. So you make a childish and flippant remark based on zero understanding of what you are talking about and when I comment back the same to you, in reply... I need to grow up? Makes sense. I should just sit back and let you continue making biased, unfounded claims, derisive comments towards something you obviously don't understand and not give you facts, stats, and a general dose of reality? Not gonna happen today, friend.
You don't consider your culture superior to others, huh? Great! Care to explain to me why you are here attacking one of the core philosophies of my culture again? Do you do the same to certain refugees that are pouring into your country? Is their culture equal to yours as well? Get off the moral high ground. You have no right to be there.
Lecture me more about humility and respect while you are continuously shown as either ignorant of everything that we have been speaking about, or an intentional liar. I don't want to make the mistake of assuming which one again.
Ad hominem ad infinitum.
You are more than welcome to stay and more than welcome to join in. I simply ask that you make a better showing next time around.
I wish you luck in getting them. I would love to hear some as well.