I think we can all agree that ISIS is doing bad things and if you don't you should take a clear look at what they have done to US citizens and other people so far.

I think people here should start to be more tolerant. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ISIS..i'm talking about being tolerant about other peoples belives like Yard1's for example. I would consider myself an atheist. I don't belive in a god and i don't belive that stuff happens because someone is up there watching. But i can respect if people do belive in such a thing as a "God". I don't have a problem with that. It only starts to become a problem when someone forces other people to share their belives. Like ISIS or all radical religious people. (And also radical atheists). As longs as people don't hurt other peoole..they can belive in whatever they want. Hell i met people who belive in Odin. It dosen't matter to me. As long as you treat me with respect i do the same. No matter what you belive in.

I think people here should start to be more tolerant. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT ISIS..i'm talking about being tolerant about other peoples belives like Yard1's for example. I would consider myself an atheist. I don't belive in a god and i don't belive that stuff happens because someone is up there watching. But i can respect if people do belive in such a thing as a "God". I don't have a problem with that. It only starts to become a problem when someone forces other people to share their belives. Like ISIS or all radical religious people. (And also radical atheists). As longs as people don't hurt other peoole..they can belive in whatever they want. Hell i met people who belive in Odin. It dosen't matter to me. As long as you treat me with respect i do the same. No matter what you belive in.

 

I believe, you are hinting at me here. If so, would you be kind enough to show me where I "forced" my views on anyone or "hurt" others? And also, what I have, as a "radical atheist", in common with ISIS? Because thats vaguely insulting and offensive. If I were to be what you believe I am, I won't have lasted 3 days since I started doing that since there are groups of religious people in this world who tend to start riots in the name of God at the slightest hint that someone is having a different opinion. Thats one more reason why I believe God's invention is a danger to humanity.

 

Y'know, I, for one, blame people who cannot appreciate a healthy debate and rather see it is as an act of oppression against each-other, or against a specific participant.

Edited August 29, 201411 yr by Troy

you know, speaking of the middle east i heard women in afganaisthan aren't allowed to go or walk anywhere, unless they have a male with them, is that true?

I don't think that is true in all of Afghanistan, but it might be in some places. Depending on what they believe in (voluntarily or by force) it might be true. This is not true just because they follow Islam. There are plenty of places in the middle east and elsewhere in the world that follow Islam but are not as strict.

No religion has their hands clean of extremism, except maybe Judaism(?). Muslims had Jihads, and Christians had Crusades, and some would argue the inquisition. Those, to me at least, are all forms of radical ideology.

I'll admit I'm not extremely well versed in Jewish history, but I want to say they did something in biblical times.

 

Oh, and that justifies God? Its just a superstitious lie being passed on from old generations to new generations just like the "universal truth" that was coined by some illiterate people of Galileo's times that the earth is the center of the universe and that sun and other planets revolve around it, and that God created earth in mere six days, and that earth is the only planet with life and that all life is so complicated that it cannot just occur without a guiding hand and that evolution is just a big fat lie and that the world is just 4000 years old, etcetra, etcetra... Media, at least the newspapers, have been around since the 17th century and if "God" were to appear in any part of the world, the news would have been spread like wildfire through your neighborhood too regardless of where on earth you live. I just don't feel like supporting the idea that "God who created this world with his bare hands" abandoned it just like that, according to some people, mainly because humanity has gone FUBAR? Wow, thats the most retarded logic I've ever come across now. I could debate on it all day long but thats for another thread.

 

Just because you think and say so? Er... I'll pass. And as far as "I am by no means a religious man" is concerned, something tells me that you are. Just writing it out loud on a public forum and then contradicting your statement immediately thereafter just doesn't cut it. Also, I don't need to hear about what I should do with my life from someone. I'm a philosopher and unlike many others, I see, I observe, and then I conclude rather than following a fan-fiction like a sheep, which was written by someone centuries ago and has no credible evidence of supporting any of its claims even to this date.

 

You guys should seriously watch Paul (2011), even if it was intentionally kept lighthearted to avoid public outbursts. 

Christianity was not created by humans, it was created by Jesus Christ himself. You see, I am a Roman Catholic and you seem to have no respect or decency towards religions. I don't go around bashing Atheists about not believing. I just don't see how you could rule out a possibility of a God. I mean, science states that matter cannot be created out of nothing, so how would it make sense for science to infer that the universe created itself from nothing because that defies it's own law. People use the big bang as an example, but where did the matter for that come from, and so on and so on? The universe could not have existed forever because again, matter cannot be created out of nothing.

 

1. The Argument Of Motion: An object must be set in motion in order to move, right?  So the universe, for example. So how did the first thing move? That first mover is God. An object in motion cannot set itself in motion and extend ad infinitum. (forever)

 

2. Argument from Efficient Causes: Nothing exists prior to itself therefore nothing is the efficient cause of itself. The series of efficient causes cannot extend ad infinitum.

 

3. Reductio Argument: Assume that every being is a contingent being. For each being there is a time it did not exist. Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist. There was a time when no things existed. This shows us that there was nothing to bring anything into existence. So if nothing existed before, nothing would exist now. This point to a supernatural being that brought everything into existence.

 

And despite common belief, science and religion go hand in hand, not against each other.

 

(I try my best to stay out of religious battles but this one I had to get involved in)

Edited August 29, 201411 yr by 1ian20

Christianity was not created by humans, it was created by Jesus Christ himself.

Oh really?

 

You see, I am a Roman Catholic and you seem to have no respect or decency towards religions.

Thats right. I do not have any respect or decency towards religions. But I have respect or decency towards people's belief in it. At the same time, I am ridiculed by the news such as "Destruction of a church/temple/mosque has hurt the sentiments of christians/hindus/muslims". I can say it out loud. And I'm not ashamed of it at all.

If it weren't for freedom of speech, I have a feeling you'd have blown my head off with a shotgun just now.

 

I don't go around bashing Atheists about not believing. I just don't see how you could rule out a possibility of a God. I mean, science states that matter cannot be created out of nothing, so how would it make sense for science to infer that the universe created itself from nothing because that defies it's own law. People use the big bang as an example, but where did the matter for that come from, and so on and so on? The universe could not have existed forever because again, matter cannot be created out of nothing.

 

1. The Argument Of Motion: An object must be set in motion in order to move, right?  So the universe, for example. So how did the first thing move? That first mover is God. An object in motion cannot set itself in motion and extend ad infinitum. (forever)

 

2. Argument from Efficient Causes: Nothing exists prior to itself therefore nothing is the efficient cause of itself. The series of efficient causes cannot extend ad infinitum.

 

3. Reductio Argument: Assume that every being is a contingent being. For each being there is a time it did not exist. Therefore it is impossible for these always to exist. There was a time when no things existed. This shows us that there was nothing to bring anything into existence. So if nothing existed before, nothing would exist now. This point to a supernatural being that brought everything into existence.

Most of the times scientists fail to solve things pertaining to outer space is because we live on earth and we're used to the atmosphere and the rules of physics on earth. Its not necessary that rules of physics are the same in the rest of the universe. Since we don't know what its like outside our own solar system (let alone nearby galaxies), there is now way we could make accurate predictions about it. Just because science does not have an answer for something does not mean that automatically proves God's existence. That would be like saying that all unsolved murder mysteries had God's hand in it because of their lack of evidence. Don't EVER try to pull that one in a logical discussion (except you're joking, that is).

 

And despite common belief, science and religion go hand in hand, not against each other.

Science does not actually even bother explaining religions or affiliating itself with since its a completely man-made thing. Going hand in hand with it is completely out of question.

Edited August 30, 201411 yr by Troy

Oh really?

 

Thats right. I do not have any respect or decency towards religions. But I have respect or decency towards people's belief in it. At the same time, I am ridiculed by the news such as "Destruction of a church/temple/mosque has hurt the sentiments of christians/hindus/muslims". I can say it out loud. And I'm not ashamed of it at all.

If it weren't for freedom of speech, I have a feeling you'd have blown my head off with a shotgun just now.

 

Most of the times scientists fail to solve things pertaining to outer space is because we live on earth and we're used to the atmosphere and the rules of physics on earth. Its not necessary that rules of physics are the same in the rest of the universe. Since we don't know what its like outside our own solar system (let alone nearby galaxies), there is now way we could make accurate predictions about it. Just because science does not have an answer for something does not mean that automatically proves God's existence. That would be like saying that all unsolved murder mysteries had God's hand in it because of their lack of evidence. Don't EVER try to pull that one in a logical discussion (except you're joking, that is).

 

Science does not actually even bother explaining religions or affiliating itself with since its a completely man-made thing. Going hand in hand with it is completely out of question.

No, I wouldn't blow your head off. I am not an extremist. But, I don't see how matter could create itself outside of our solar system. That just doesn't make sense to me. How could matter just pop up without something ever existing before it? And no, comparing the creation of the universe to a crime scene is a bad example in my opinion. And yes science and religion work together. Science answers the how and religion answers the why. Empirical vs. Metaphysical. Religion and science do not defy each other. If you believe in religion it does not prevent you from believing in science. Did the big bang happen? I don't know. But if I wanted to the Catholic Church says nothing against believing in scientific theories and ideas. As a Christian, I believe that certain things were caused by God, so if I believed in the Big Bang that would be one of those things. Another thing is that humans have the tendency to want to know God. All of these religions around the world have formed and each of them have a God(s) that they look up to. This shows that humans have a natural desire to know God.

 

You know what's funny you have all these different religions out here yet you still have that question, which religion is the right one?

Democracy sounds fancy. And its 'fair'. That is why we're using it now. And this 'democracy' concept is fairly new and young. Otherwise, humans too, just like animals, had one king or one leader who lead the groups of people. THIS method is natural. THIS is what we have as legacy and we cannot change it since its in our blood. This just goes on to show how the need to invent God surfaced as some people just wish for a powerful force who could control them. I know it might sound silly, but I actually agree with a part of what was said in Call Of Duty Advanced Warfare's trailer as I quote:

 

 

People don't want freedom. They want boundaries, rules. Protection. From invaders and from themselves. People need a leader who can give them both the support and the constraints.

 

Sure independence means a lot to us. But that is because we humans tend to bore with time. Dynasty method was too old and independence, freedom and liberty were becoming attractive. Thats why democracy was invented.

 

I understand its kind of scary to feel all alone in this vast universe and naturally, most humans have an imaginary friend/caretaker/godfather named God to help feel safe. But until we get rid of the thought that we are one of a kind intelligent species in the entirety of this universe, we'll never be able to get out of this small world we have created for ourselves which confines us to its boundaries and hinders the ability to broaden our view.

 

Y'know, sometimes I read how a plane or car crash accident survivor told his story of how he/she remembered God and was miraculously salvaged by the rescue team. However, I could not open my eyes about the reality unless I saw the movie 'The Grey' and eventually learned about the theory of survivor illusion. SPOILERS FOR MOVIE AHEAD:

The movie's end scene shows the protagonist, who happens to be an air-crash survivor now stuck in an uninhabited wilderness of Alaska struggling with fatal weather and hungry wolves, begging to God for his life and then eventually getting desperate, demanding to know why he won't show up even though he worshipped him all his life.

 

Makes one think, only the survivors survive to tell their stories. The ones who are now dead cannot even tell that they, too, prayed to God perhaps more than the ones who survived, but no body ever showed up to rescue them?

Edited August 31, 201411 yr by Troy

Democracy sounds fancy. And its 'fair'. That is why we're using it now. And this 'democracy' concept is fairly new and young. Otherwise, humans too, just like animals, had one king or one leader who lead the groups of people. THIS method is natural. THIS is what we have as legacy and we cannot change it since its in our blood. This just goes on to show how the need to invent God surfaced as some people just wish for a powerful force who could control them. I know it might sound silly, but I actually agree with a part of what was said in Call Of Duty Advanced Warfare's trailer as I quote:

 

 

Sure independence means a lot to us. But that is because we humans tend to bore with time. Dynasty method was too old and independence, freedom and liberty were becoming attractive. Thats why democracy was invented.

 

I understand its kind of scary to feel all alone in this vast universe and naturally, most humans have an imaginary friend/caretaker/godfather named God to help feel safe. But until we get rid of the thought that we are one of a kind intelligent species in the entirety of this universe, we'll never be able to get out of this small world we have created for ourselves which confines us to its boundaries and hinders the ability to broaden our view.

 

Y'know, sometimes I read how a plane or car crash accident survivor told his story of how he/she remembered God and was miraculously salvaged by the rescue team. However, I could not open my eyes about the reality unless I saw the movie 'The Grey' and eventually learned about the theory of survivor illusion. SPOILERS FOR MOVIE AHEAD:

The movie's end scene shows the protagonist, who happens to be an air-crash survivor now stuck in an uninhabited wilderness of Alaska struggling with fatal weather and hungry wolves, begging to God for his life and then eventually getting desperate, demanding to know why he won't show up even though he worshipped him all his life.

 

Makes one think, only the survivors survive to tell their stories. The ones who are now dead cannot even tell that they, too, prayed to God perhaps more than the ones who survived, but no body ever showed up to rescue them?

Why is everything you base your beliefs off of from a movie? Maybe you should try reading some books or taking a class, you will get different view points then. It sounds like you just watch movies that generally follow what you believe which is fine but doesn't show you the other point of view.

MODERATOR NOTICE
I think we're getting a little off-track here. Heated debates are fine, but everyone should remain respectful and refrain from ANY kind of personal attacks. 

Why is everything you base your beliefs off of from a movie? Maybe you should try reading some books or taking a class, you will get different view points then. It sounds like you just watch movies that generally follow what you believe which is fine but doesn't show you the other point of view.

 

I'm using movies as a reference because its easier. Just like theists use their holy books as reference. There's a difference between basing beliefs off of a movie and using it as a reference. In actual life, though, I conclude from my own apprehension and perception. I hope that answers your question about my "weird" brain's modus operandi?

you know, speaking of the middle east i heard women in afganaisthan aren't allowed to go or walk anywhere, unless they have a male with them, is that true?

 

Extremist groups such as the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, now ISIS, did, or are now doing something called "Sharia". It's an extreme, rough interpretation of basically how everyone lives and how a society operates. At the very minimum, woman can't vote, go out in public without a male escort, females must be fully covered and not speak, ect. The list goes on and on. Public executions, mandatory male beards are all extreme policies these groups use to keep themselves in power. 

 

Just google Sharia if you're interested in what these groups promote. 

I'm using movies as a reference because its easier. Just like theists use their holy books as reference. There's a difference between basing beliefs off of a movie and using it as a reference. In actual life, though, I conclude from my own apprehension and perception. I hope that answers your question about my "weird" brain's modus operandi?

I understand, however instead of just going off of your own perception you should try reading some books or take classes they give different points of view on things and gives you a better understanding. When I was in college and took a World Religions class it didn't make me any more religious or want to go out and join a church but it definitely gave me a better insight into those religions (and it covered quite a few).

I understand, however instead of just going off of your own perception you should try reading some books or take classes they give different points of view on things and gives you a better understanding. When I was in college and took a World Religions class it didn't make me any more religious or want to go out and join a church but it definitely gave me a better insight into those religions (and it covered quite a few).

 

I get it. However, we live in the practical world and y'know most people, as they haven't attended these classes, don't really give a shit or simply do not have the insights that these classes would provide. And since I rarely bump into extremists leading to my involvement in a heated debate/argument, the need-to-know about something which I have my own opinion for (negative, mostly) does not arise. I know things about my own religion (obviously; and I'm not gonna discuss it here for obvious reasons) and I do not believe that others would be based on any different idea.

 

Some people might have mistaken me for something I am not, hence the clarification: I am not a 'God-hater'. Many people, when learn the fact that I am an atheist, automatically assume that I'm a God-hater. However, it is simply not true. Atheists are NOT a breed who completely condemn the idea of God and bash around everybody who believe in God. As a matter of fact, I, personally, do not hesitate to go along with my friends and family to the holy place of God, namely churches and temples and/or participating in the rituals when politely/casually asked to. For me, its just like your little daughter sets up a toy home and invite you in for a tea presenting it to you in her little plastic cup which is filled with water and you pretend to drink it and make her happy. Its kind of like that. Since I do not believe in existence of God, I am counted as an atheist. However, its not true that I hate/avoid going to churches and such or rain hell over theists just because they follow God. Everyone has a right to opinion and I respect the fact. But if you ask me, I, personally would deny the existence of God. I'll be brutally honest and say I haven't ever experienced God anywhere near me or communicating with me, neither has it ever occurred to me to remember him when I've been in the most heart-pounding or life-threatening situations of my life, as one would normally do. Even as I grew up, I took all the God and church-thing for granted and never ever really paid any attention to it until I was old enough to ponder over and question his existence.

Edited August 31, 201411 yr by Troy

I get it. However, we live in the practical world and y'know most people, as they haven't attended these classes, don't really give a shit or simply do not have the insights that these classes would provide. And since I rarely bump into extremists leading to my involvement in a heated debate/argument, the need-to-know about something which I have my own opinion for (negative, mostly) does not arise. I know things about my own religion (obviously; and I'm not gonna discuss it here for obvious reasons) and I do not believe that others would be based on any different idea.

 

Some people might have mistaken me for something I am not, hence the clarification: I am not a 'God-hater'. Many people, when learn the fact that I am an atheist, automatically assume that I'm a God-hater. However, it is simply not true. Atheists are NOT a breed who completely condemn the idea of God and bash around everybody who believe in God. As a matter of fact, I, personally, do not hesitate to go along with my friends and family to the holy place of God, namely churches and temples and/or participating in the rituals when politely/casually asked to. For me, its just like your little daughter sets up a toy home and invite you in for a tea presenting it to you in her little plastic cup which is filled with water and you pretend to drink it and make her happy. Its kind of like that. Since I do not believe in existence of God, I am counted as an atheist. However, its not true that I hate/avoid going to churches and such or rain hell over theists just because they follow God. Everyone has a right to opinion and I respect the fact. But if you ask me, I, personally would deny the existence of God. I'll be brutally honest and say I haven't ever experienced God anywhere near me or communicating with me, neither has it ever occurred to me to remember him when I've been in the most heart-pounding or life-threatening situations of my life, as one would normally do. Even as I grew up, I took all the God and church-thing for granted and never ever really paid any attention to it until I was old enough to ponder over and question his existence.

See but that is my point, if/when you have these conversations then you should be informed on the topic. Sure it is not a topic I get involved in a lot but at least if it comes up I have some knowledge and can participate in the topic and at least know a little bit about what I'm talking about. I don't know anything about medical science so if a topic came up about that I would simply not say anything because I wouldn't know what I'm talking about and if I wanted to participate in the conversation I would try to learn about the topic a little bit so I at least sound somewhat informed instead of making outrageous or misinformed claims just because I saw a couple of episodes of House or something like that.

See but that is my point, if/when you have these conversations then you should be informed on the topic. Sure it is not a topic I get involved in a lot but at least if it comes up I have some knowledge and can participate in the topic and at least know a little bit about what I'm talking about. I don't know anything about medical science so if a topic came up about that I would simply not say anything because I wouldn't know what I'm talking about and if I wanted to participate in the conversation I would try to learn about the topic a little bit so I at least sound somewhat informed instead of making outrageous or misinformed claims just because I saw a couple of episodes of House or something like that.

 

I see where you're coming from, but as you can see I have my own reasons for believe what I do. It would be like me recommending you to join theist classes (if there were any).

 

You're again confusing the fact that I gave references of movies since that would be easier to explain as most people do watch movies and that is the only common thing between you and me I can think of, with basing views off of movies.

 

Sure, medical science is a subject which needs to be studied at macro as well as micro levels to fully understand it, but the same cannot be said about this topic. There is an unusual simplicity to it. I don't remember anyone told me or wrote that one had to research or read heavy books to understand God. So, medical science is, IMO, a bad example to compare this situation with. Pfft... kinda explains why almost every other Joe around the corner can lecture you good and proper on spirituality. NO DEGREES NEEDED lmfao. Ironic.

 

With that said, I better unfollow this topic. Its gone way off-topic since my first comment but I was replying to the thread for the sole reason because initially, a moderator himself was involved. Now, I'm not so sure. Other than that, I have been engaged in debates similar to these with theists and from first hand experience, they have proved to be nothing but fruitless everytime since usually, the participants do not share at least a single common ground for these discussions. Thiests use God as the basis of discussion and atheists tend to turn to logics for it. And unless people start to understand that God is NOT a replacement for logic, these debates have always been and will always be left unconcluded.

I see where you're coming from, but as you can see I have my own reasons for believe what I do. It would be like me recommending you to join theist classes (if there were any).

 

You're again confusing the fact that I gave references of movies since that would be easier to explain as most people do watch movies and that is the only common thing between you and me I can think of, with basing views off of movies.

 

Sure, medical science is a subject which needs to be studied at macro as well as micro levels to fully understand it, but the same cannot be said about this topic. There is an unusual simplicity to it. I don't remember anyone told me or wrote that one had to research or read heavy books to understand God. So, medical science is, IMO, a bad example to compare this situation with. Pfft... kinda explains why almost every other Joe around the corner can lecture you good and proper on spirituality. NO DEGREES NEEDED lmfao. Ironic.

 

With that said, I better unfollow this topic. Its gone way off-topic since my first comment but I was replying to the thread for the sole reason because initially, a moderator himself was involved. Now, I'm not so sure. Other than that, I have been engaged in debates similar to these with theists and from first hand experience, they have proved to be nothing but fruitless everytime since usually, the participants do not share at least a single common ground for these discussions. Thiests use God as the basis of discussion and atheists tend to turn to logics for it. And unless people start to understand that God is NOT a replacement for logic, these debates have always been and will always be left unconcluded.

Yep, I guess I better give up too because you are clearly not seeing my point and are determined that religion is just some simple subject that doesn't require much research to understand which couldn't be further from the truth. But oh well, if you want to continue believing that then go ahead.

Yep, I guess I better give up too because you are clearly not seeing my point and are determined that religion is just some simple subject that doesn't require much research to understand which couldn't be further from the truth. But oh well, if you want to continue believing that then go ahead.

 

Same to you, buddy. Kudos.