Again, why should the government that is supposed to enforce laws against the people get a free pass when breaking the Supreme Law of the Land?

Because I believe they can protect me. Or a human life is nothing comparing to the privacy of e-mails?

Okay here's the deal with that. 

 

That was in a age where the only security risk was people burning down hay houses, did he know that in 200 years there would be bombs in briefcases that could level a building? Did he know there was going to be nuclear weapons that could destroy entire cities and kill millions in the matter of seconds? Did he know there was going to be terrorist groups dedicated to killing people?  

 

I'm pretty sure he didn't stop with that stupid fucking quote. Its like bring a pencil to a gun fight. 

 

At the time that quote would of worked, but now adays things are compeltely different and i'm pretty sure if he was alive now he would agree for the most part of what the government on how there dealing with this.

No matter how much people want to sugar coat the NSA with assisting in the prevention of not even one terrorism act (Despite Operation Echelon being in existence since the end of WW2), it doesn't change the fact that treason has and is continuing to be committed. For those that don't know, Operation Echelon was an agreement between spy agencies in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States after WW2. They agreed to spy on each others citizens to bypass domestic spying laws.

 

A rogue government is a much more dangerous threat to our freedom than a nut who could only get supplied by the FBI.

Because I believe they can protect me. Or a human life is nothing comparing to the privacy of e-mails?

But the NSA hasn't prevented a single attack since the creation of similar programs just after World War 2.

No matter how much people want to sugar coat the NSA with assisting in the prevention of not even one terrorism act (Despite Operation Echelon being in existence since the end of WW2), it doesn't change the fact that treason has and is continuing to be committed. For those that don't know, Operation Echelon was an agreement between spy agencies in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States after WW2. They agreed to spy on each others citizens to bypass domestic spying laws.

 

A rogue government is a much more dangerous threat to our freedom than a nut who could only get supplied by the FBI.

But the NSA hasn't prevented a single attack since the creation of similar programs just after World War 2.

 

Why are you quoting me has nothing to do with what I was saying but okay. Also I don't know where you get your "facts" but the NSA has help capture a number of high profile terrorist. Of course you're not going to hear about the attacks they stopped, well because they stopped them...  

 

You do realize the CIA and NSA work together almost every way possible right? 

Edited February 13, 201412 yr by Darkangel

Also there not watching people like you and me, there watching the people who go on google and search "How to make a IED" or something like that.  

After seeing your edit, anyone who supports a party other than Democrat or Republican is considered by the US Government to be a domestic terrorist, according to the leaked "Modern Militia Movement" papers from the Missouri Information Analysis Center (Joint Federal/State task force). That means 7 million people at least are considered terrorists, for simply exercising their first amendment right.

But the NSA hasn't prevented a single attack since the creation of similar programs just after World War 2.

It's not about direct terrorist hits, I think... Foreign hostile intelligence is much worse. I do think NSA can handle that, otherwise why would the government support them?..

After seeing your edit, anyone who supports a party other than Democrat or Republican is considered by the US Government to be a domestic terrorist, according to the leaked "Modern Militia Movement" papers from the Missouri Information Analysis Center (Joint Federal/State task force). That means 7 million people at least are considered terrorists, for simply exercising their first amendment right.

 

You irritate me, so I guess the NSA is watching me? That explains that white van with the the guys with a the camera taking pictures of me...

 

They do have common sense think there going to watch all 7 million of those people? No there going to watch the people who google how to make a bomb, or search subscribe to "Taliban Times" 

Why are you quoting me has nothing to do with what I was saying but okay. Also I don't know where you get your "facts" but the NSA has help capture a number of high profile terrorist. Of course you're not going to hear about the attacks they stopped, well because they stopped them...  

 

You do realize the CIA and NSA work together almost every way possible right? 

 

And yet, Obama can't cite one single time where it has stopped an attack, and he's much more privy to information than anyone on this site. My facts were already shown in links, while you have provided none.

It's not about direct terrorist hits, I think... Foreign hostile intelligence is much worse. I do think NSA can handle that, otherwise why would the government support them?..

Yeah, why would a government, an entity composed entirely of humans who like to control other humans, want to give itself more power?

 

You irritate me, so I guess the NSA is watching me? That explains that white van with the the guys with a the camera taking pictures of me...

 

They do have common sense think there going to watch all 7 million of those people? No there going to watch the people who google how to make a bomb, or search subscribe to "Taliban Times" 

I simply took the criteria out of a leaked document from a joint federal/local anti-terrorism task force. I'm sorry that that blows over your head and challenges your belief system so much.

 

Also, this would be known as argumentum ad absurdinum. You can't counter any of the points I brought up, so you had to make it seem like my points are ridiculous.

The NSA's job isn't stopping terrorism. That's not why they were created. They were created as a foreign intelligence agency. Spying on Angela Merkel's phone? That's the sort of thing they were made to do (and if you think spying on allies is unusual, you're wrong; everyone spies on everyone, as a rule). You're all talking as if they were initially created to stop terrorist attacks; that's simply false. They're under the Department of Defense, and anti-terrorism isn't the DoD's job.

Also, if you seriously think Snowden committed treason, note that treason involves supporting the enemies of the United States. Snowden leaked info for the benefit of the American people; if that's treason, it means the citizens of the United States are the enemies of the United States.

Yeah, why would a government, an entity composed entirely of humans who like to control other humans, want to give itself more power?

 

And how goes it? Say, you see any long black cars with guys in black suits with black glasses around your house? Do they ask questions to your employer, relatives, friends?... I was born in Russia and I knew from my parents how was it in USSR and I don't see nothing like that in America. I am sure that NSA is a counterintelligence agency and nowadays you either fight and survive or refuse to control anything and loose your place in the world. I like Switzerland or Norway, for example, but never would agree to live there... 

The NSA's job isn't stopping terrorism. That's not why they were created. They were created as a foreign intelligence agency. Spying on Angela Merkel's phone? That's the sort of thing they were made to do (and if you think spying on allies is unusual, you're wrong; everyone spies on everyone, as a rule). You're all talking as if they were initially created to stop terrorist attacks; that's simply false. They're under the Department of Defense, and anti-terrorism isn't the DoD's job.

But every time a supporter in government is questioned about the NSA, their answer isn't "we want to spy on foreign governments." It's a response designed to tug on the heartstrings of America by saying "we want to prevent another 9/11." A majority of the civilians that support the NSA don't support it to spy on Merkel's office, they support it to spy on terrorists, which it has done a piss poor job of doing.

And how goes it? Say, you see any long black cars with guys in black suits with black glasses around your house? Do they ask questions to your employer, relatives, friends?... I was born in Russia and I knew from my parents how was it in USSR and I don't see nothing like that in America. I am sure that NSA is a counterintelligence agency and nowadays you either fight and survive or refuse to control anything and loose your place in the world. I like Switzerland or Norway, for example, but never would agree to live there... 

This argument is always brought up, and it is really quite ridiculous. Should an assault be ignored, simply because it hasn't been turned into a murder yet? Should a DUI be ignored, simply because the driver hasn't crashed into anyone yet? Should a growing problem of a government overreach of power be ignored, simply because they haven't started killing political dissidents yet? Regardless of whether you like Obama or the next president more, the ultimate problem is that these tools exist and they can easily be used for sinister purposes.

This argument is always brought up, and it is really quite ridiculous. Should an assault be ignored, simply because it hasn't been turned into a murder yet? Should a DUI be ignored, simply because the driver hasn't crashed into anyone yet? Should a growing problem of a government overreach of power be ignored, simply because they haven't started killing political dissidents yet? Regardless of whether you like Obama or the next president more, the ultimate problem is that these tools exist and they can easily be used for sinister purposes.

I got that point, but there still remains the other one - foreign espionage, like I said. Or do you think outside threats are nothing comparing to inner one? 

well this topic escalated pretty quickly, also I think it's ok for the government to spy on us so less crimes are committed and terrorists attacks are prevented. I think you guys are taking this a bit to far, with this petition, sometimes rules are meant to be broken especially US Constitution. I know i sound kinda ignorant but it's the truth. 

I got that point, but there still remains the other one - foreign espionage, like I said. Or do you think outside threats are nothing comparing to inner one? 

 

Like I said, the majority of the people don't care about foreign espionage, and happily lap up the lie told by the politicians and the media that it is about preventing terrorism. 

 

The threats against us stem from our constant involvement in other's business since WW2. One example is Iran. Many people that are uninformed think that out of random, they attacked the embassy in 1979 and hated us for our freedoms. What is almost never talked about is that in the 1950's, the CIA led a coup that overthrew the democratically elected president of that country and replaced him with a Pro-US dictator.

 

 While there is no way to go back in time and prevent these actions, creating more enemies won't do anything to fix it.

well this topic escalated pretty quickly, also I think it's ok for the government to spy on us so less crimes are committed and terrorists attacks are prevented. I think you guys are taking this a bit to far, with this petition, sometimes rules are meant to be broken especially US Constitution. I know i sound kinda ignorant but it's the truth. 

But as I've been trying to get people do for the past page, name one terrorist attack the NSA prevented. If they were effective at all, then there might be a leg to stand on for people supporting the suspension of the Constitution.

Also, here's a way to view the NSA spying on Americans (and note that their original foreign-espionage, as well as their crypto efforts, are *not* unconstitutional; spying on communications outside the US between non-Americans is certainly legal for the NSA): Officers of the US government (including military officers, members of Congress, and judges, but not enlisted military or others who aren't considered 'officers') swear an oath to the Constitution. They don't swear to prevent terrorist attacks, or to follow orders (this includes military officers, though not enlisted [who do swear to obey orders]). Edward Snowden, as a contract sysadmin, did not swear such an oath. And yet, he followed it better than those who did.

No i just like to have privacy and plus I live in Canada where the government actually trusts us. And doesnt consider every citizen a threat.

 

Your kidding right? the Government doesn't trust, they don't trust anyone, I went to the bank a few weeks ago to cash a cheque from Manitoba Public Insurance for $84.00 & I thought she was going to call the cops.. got the 20 questions.. manager got called, All because I live in Nova Scotia & got my license in Manitoba & they hadn't seen that kind of cheque before, like that's my problem & got told "That's not possible"  oh yeah, they trust alright..

 

Our Government is just as paranoid as the United States Government & the RCMP is pretty much the Canadian version of the FBI, they know everything about us, the U.S is just on a constant power trip to "Protect The People"..

 

I personally don't like the fact that they think it's okay to spy on us, gather our information & store it wherever & use our own actions against us, intentional or not, they don't care, it sucks but there really isn't anything that we can do about it..

Problem, both countries are in so much debt & they're still worried about what we're doing & buy this technology worth billions to spy on us & in reality, we're the ones paying for it..

I don't agree with the Harper Government & I think Stephen Harper is an asshole & should retire..

Edited February 13, 201412 yr by Slimory

You irritate me, so I guess the NSA is watching me? That explains that white van with the the guys with a the camera taking pictures of me...

 

They do have common sense think there going to watch all 7 million of those people? No there going to watch the people who google how to make a bomb, or search subscribe to "Taliban Times" 

 

How do you know?

I don't agree with the Harper Government & I think Stephen Harper is an asshole & should retire..

 

You shouldn't talk that way about our beloved community team member. You might make him never want to come back...

 

Joking aside, I don't think there is such a thing as a government who trusts its people. Or a country (meaning everyone in the country) who trusts its government. Also, this is relevant:

 

 

"If you love your country, your country should love you too; but how can you trust someone who doesn't trust you?"

You shouldn't talk that way about our beloved community team member. You might make him never want to come back...

 

Joking aside, I don't think there is such a thing as a government who trusts its people. Or a country (meaning everyone in the country) who trusts its government. Also, this is relevant:

 

 

"If you love your country, your country should love you too; but how can you trust someone who doesn't trust you?"

 

L.O.L heaven forbid he doesn't ever come back, he can leave, on the same plane as the Biebs :thumbsup:

 

As for this ------>   "If you love your country, your country should love you too; but how can you trust someone who doesn't trust you" that is very true my friend.

 

Please take my name out of your signature.

 

Please take my name out of your signature.

 

It automatically says the name of the user reading it.