God this constant hearing about the US problems hurts my brain. I dunno WHAT will happen in Canada if the US goes tits-up and worthless for what ever reason. Maybe i'll just move my igloo into Nunavut and live of seal blubber and drill for oil. Hook up my WiFi to my polpar bear treadmill and I can have power for a few years at least.

Half the Americans think we live in igloos anyway, so why the hell not, hell, i'll move with you..

 

 

To everyone else: I personally think Obama shut the government to say "hey, guess what guys? my dick is bigger than yours na-nananananan-na na boooger", don't get me wrong, the Harper government is horseshit to and he's *pardon my french*  but fucking ugly..

It doesn't really matter whether or not they like Obamacare though, because both houses of congress passed it and it was signed into law as the Affordable Care Act.   Republicans have been trying for years now to repeal the law, and they've never been successful.   Instead of giving up and letting the people actually see for themselves 'how terrible' the law is, they decided to stoop down to the level of trying to put clauses into the budget to deny it any funding.   

 

That's not how you repeal a law - that's called underhanded political opportunism.  A bill removing and denying all funding to obamacare was never, ever, going to pass in the Senate.  Surely everyone knew this?  If so, why would they go ahead with this knowing that it would never pass in the Senate, meaning that no budget would get through, and therefore the government would shut down.  The Republicans were relying on Obama giving into their blackmail, and he didn't, and now they've had to surrender because of it.

 

Besides, I thought Republicans hated the government anyway, shouldn't they be happy they shut it down?

no one is happy about that shutdown and the republicians wont stop trying to get rid of obamacare which im on there side when obama stops being president i hope he gets arrested for ruining the USA

41 replies wow keep this discussion going im interested to see how it ends with Sam on im wondering how its going to go now

It doesn't really matter whether or not they like Obamacare though, because both houses of congress passed it and it was signed into law as the Affordable Care Act.   Republicans have been trying for years now to repeal the law, and they've never been successful.   Instead of giving up and letting the people actually see for themselves 'how terrible' the law is, they decided to stoop down to the level of trying to put clauses into the budget to deny it any funding.   

 

That's not how you repeal a law - that's called underhanded political opportunism.  A bill removing and denying all funding to obamacare was never, ever, going to pass in the Senate.  Surely everyone knew this?  If so, why would they go ahead with this knowing that it would never pass in the Senate, meaning that no budget would get through, and therefore the government would shut down.  The Republicans were relying on Obama giving into their blackmail, and he didn't, and now they've had to surrender because of it.

 

Besides, I thought Republicans hated the government anyway, shouldn't they be happy they shut it down?

 

Republicans hating governemnt? Uh, Negative. Republicans hate when the government steps in to our individual lives and tells us how to control our finances. We hate when governments tell us we need your money, so we can give it to someone who can't make their own. That's in a nutshell what Obamacare is, and for the record. Republicans are getting paid, In all true reality, just as bluntly as it can be put. A good number of republicans are weathly, it's a statistic, in the event of a gov't shutdown, or even a default..... Democrats are going to almost without a doubt going to be affected more. That certainly isnt a reason to actually let it shut down, but their scare tactic.... in a sense, it does make sense. In another sense, it makes no sense if you can get what im saying. We shouldnt bully the entire country because of one bill, but the majority of average citizen Republicans are middle, high middle, or top class individuals.

I don't think anyone should comment on the Affordable Care Act until they read all 955 pages of it (including the government), and that's why I won't. Don't listen to what the news tells you. Obviously they aren't doing their jobs correctly when this is a thing:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx2scvIFGjE

Edited October 17, 201312 yr by willpv23

Its times like this that im happy to be living in a small country where we have free-ish healthcare and a more stable government!

 

Must suck to be on holiday in the USA just now D:

It doesn't really matter whether or not they like Obamacare though, because both houses of congress passed it and it was signed into law as the Affordable Care Act.   Republicans have been trying for years now to repeal the law, and they've never been successful.   Instead of giving up and letting the people actually see for themselves 'how terrible' the law is, they decided to stoop down to the level of trying to put clauses into the budget to deny it any funding.   

 

That's not how you repeal a law - that's called underhanded political opportunism.  A bill removing and denying all funding to obamacare was never, ever, going to pass in the Senate.  Surely everyone knew this?  If so, why would they go ahead with this knowing that it would never pass in the Senate, meaning that no budget would get through, and therefore the government would shut down.  The Republicans were relying on Obama giving into their blackmail, and he didn't, and now they've had to surrender because of it.

 

Besides, I thought Republicans hated the government anyway, shouldn't they be happy they shut it down?

It's also underhanded political opportunism to make many campaign promises that aren't kept (does free health care ring a bell?). That's something that almost all in Congress and the White House are guilty of, whether Democrat or Republican. But you have to give the people that shut down the government props on one thing: they kept their promise to fight Obamacare at all costs.

 

While I haven't bothered reading it (much like most people in Congress or the supporters of it), it's crony capitalism to force people to buy a product. Not only is it crony capitalism to do so, it is also unconstitutional to force the purchase of a product.

 

It is also pathetic that they needed to "pass it to find out what's in it" (Nancy Pelosi). It further destroys the economy by forcing business owners to pay insurance for all full time employees. Even unions, who have always been strongly liberal, say that Obamacare has "killed the 40 hour work week" (James Hoffa Jr.). In response to this, the only thing they can come up with is it gives people the ability to "pursue [their] happiness...follow [their] passion" (Once again Nacy Pelosi).

 

Those people better hope that their dreams are free.

It's also underhanded political opportunism to make many campaign promises that aren't kept (does free health care ring a bell?). That's something that almost all in Congress and the White House are guilty of, whether Democrat or Republican. But you have to give the people that shut down the government props on one thing: they kept their promise to fight Obamacare at all costs.

 

While I haven't bothered reading it (much like most people in Congress or the supporters of it), it's crony capitalism to force people to buy a product. Not only is it crony capitalism to do so, it is also unconstitutional to force the purchase of a product.

 

It is also pathetic that they needed to "pass it to find out what's in it" (Nancy Pelosi). It further destroys the economy by forcing business owners to pay insurance for all full time employees. Even unions, who have always been strongly liberal, say that Obamacare has "killed the 40 hour work week" (James Hoffa Jr.). In response to this, the only thing they can come up with is it gives people the ability to "pursue [their] happiness...follow [their] passion" (Once again Nacy Pelosi).

 

Those people better hope that their dreams are free.

 

I'm not saying that it is by any means a good law, but the the facts are clear:

• Passed by the house
• Passed by the senate
• Signed by the president
• Upheld by the supreme court

There's simply no justification for the GOP going out of their way like this to use the budget to fight this law.  If there is a problem with a law, then you repeal it.  The fact is is that there's no chance Obamacare can be repealed, because the democrats control the senate.   Best way to sort this problem?  People to vote for the republicans.   At the last presidential election Obama overwhelmingly won the popular vote, which you have to assume means there's popular support for his flagship policy too.  Indeed, its worth nothing that perhaps the repubs don't quite have the mandate you think they do.  In the last 6 presidential elections, they've only won the popular vote once.

 

It's not about Obama and how he's failed to deliver (which he has) or the flaws in obamacare (which there are), its simply about the democratic process.  Do you really have a healthy system of government when one house of congress can cause this much of a mess?  The US was literally a couple of hours away from defaulting on its debt because of a fight over a law that had already been passed, signed and upheld.

I'm not saying that it is by any means a good law, but the the facts are clear:

• Passed by the house
• Passed by the senate
• Signed by the president
• Upheld by the supreme court

There's simply no justification for the GOP going out of their way like this to use the budget to fight this law.  If there is a problem with a law, then you repeal it.  The fact is is that there's no chance Obamacare can be repealed, because the democrats control the senate.   Best way to sort this problem?  People to vote for the republicans.   At the last presidential election Obama overwhelmingly won the popular vote, which you have to assume means there's popular support for his flagship policy too.  Indeed, its worth nothing that perhaps the repubs don't quite have the mandate you think they do.  In the last 6 presidential elections, they've only won the popular vote once.

 

It's not about Obama and how he's failed to deliver (which he has) or the flaws in obamacare (which there are), its simply about the democratic process.  Do you really have a healthy system of government when one house of congress can cause this much of a mess?  The US was literally a couple of hours away from defaulting on its debt because of a fight over a law that had already been passed, signed and upheld.

I didn't say that I agreed with the method of doing this. I felt like it was necessary to point out that the small number of Republicans actually kept their campaign promises to fight Obamacare, compared to the many others who have failed to even attempt to deliver their promises, and that, despite the method used to do so, I felt it was more honorable than blatant lies in order to get elected.

 

Also, the main fault of the almost US default was not just Obamacare, but a mass amount of unsafe spending by both parties, without a budget most of the time, while knowing that a default was possible with how partisan politics have become.

 

It's not an uhealthy system because of one house, it's an unhealthy system because people have taken advantage of it for several hundred years, predominantly the last 50, whether they are Republicans, Democrats or corporations, all while screwing over an American people that are too blind, stupid and arrogant to realize they are getting fucked no matter who they vote for. 

This has been making its way around the web, so I'll post it for those who haven't seen it.

 

This has been making its way around the web, so I'll post it for those who haven't seen it.

 

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That guy has a good point. It's stupid to keep kicking the can down the road while the country spirals into debt. $17,000,000,000,000 is an incomprehensibly large amount of money. If you stacked 17 million 1 dollar bills, it would be more than 1 million miles high. That is enough to make a stack of one dollar bills to the moon four times and still have money left over! To see how fast the debt is rising, look here (or here if your computer is slow and manually refresh the page).

 

The government is spending money it doesn't have, and either people need to give up certain benefits and programs, or taxes need to be raised. Letting the debt pile up without doing anything is both irresponsible and stupid. Unfortunately though, everyone wants "free" money from the government, so when a politician votes against giving out money, people are less likely to elect him.

 

There just needs to be sensible cut backs in government spending and someone has to take control of things that go way over budget or cost ridiculous amounts of money.  E.g. how can it cost $60,000 a day to keep the statue of liberty open, and how can it cost close to $100,000 a day to keep the Grand Canyon open?

 

Also, Mount Rushmore seems to cost just over $15,000 a day?   How can it cost that much for people just to drive up and look?

 

One way of cutting spending would be to seriously re-evaluate how on earth things like this cost so much, and do it across the board.

Monuments under federal jurisdiction have to be maintained, secured, and served. For example, if someone is hiking around the Grand Canyon and gets hurt, they need to be rescued. Maintaining that costs money. Around the Statue of Liberty (and Ellis Island; they're part of the same national monument), you need a lot of park police, and a lot of staff to keep everything relatively clean, staff to repair things that are breaking, EMTs, park rangers, tour guides, facilities costs (all those guys need to be supplied). Running big operations is expensive. $15,600,000 a year or so isn't actually unreasonable for a giant operation; on average, it's about $4/visitor (the monument sees 4 million visitors a year).

Monuments under federal jurisdiction have to be maintained, secured, and served. For example, if someone is hiking around the Grand Canyon and gets hurt, they need to be rescued. Maintaining that costs money. Around the Statue of Liberty (and Ellis Island; they're part of the same national monument), you need a lot of park police, and a lot of staff to keep everything relatively clean, staff to repair things that are breaking, EMTs, park rangers, tour guides, facilities costs (all those guys need to be supplied). Running big operations is expensive. $15,600,000 a year or so isn't actually unreasonable for a giant operation; on average, it's about $4/visitor (the monument sees 4 million visitors a year).

 

I agree with what you are saying, but government employees think differently of government money than they would of their own money or their companies money. For example, I know an engineer who works for the Department of the Navy, and the government allocates money to be spent on certain things, like making a base more environmentally friendly and things like that. Him and his fellow engineers were allocated a couple million dollars to use for something like improving buildings (I don't remember exactly what it was for), and the money was set to expire soon if they didn't use it, so they just built a whole bunch of useless solar panels.

 

This kind of waste is not an isolated issue and illustrates the general "use it or lose it" mindset of government employees with government money. The spending attitude needs to change, and the government's employees need to spend frugally and responsibly like they would at a private company.

lol there is no difference between a democrap and republicant they don't care about the constitution and they are all for big government...only a select few actually care about it...they all work for the offshore banking cartel

I agree with what you are saying, but government employees think differently of government money than they would of their own money or their companies money. For example, I know an engineer who works for the Department of the Navy, and the government allocates money to be spent on certain things, like making a base more environmentally friendly and things like that. Him and his fellow engineers were allocated a couple million dollars to use for something like improving buildings (I don't remember exactly what it was for), and the money was set to expire soon if they didn't use it, so they just built a whole bunch of useless solar panels.

 

This kind of waste is not an isolated issue and illustrates the general "use it or lose it" mindset of government employees with government money. The spending attitude needs to change, and the government's employees need to spend frugally and responsibly like they would at a private company.

This.

 

 

I have heard time and time again from people I know, and just in general. 

When money is set to expire, they are encouraged by their department to spend it. Why? Because it will cut their budget for the next fiscal year and allocate more to other agencies that need it. 

Departments want to have extra money for their own reasons and want to keep their budget roomy.

 

It's a waste of money but as said, it is not money coming out of their pocket so it seems as if no one cares.