c13

This is exactly why you're thankfully not a police officer, and thankfully never will be. The job of the police is to arrest people for crimes and investigate (which your fantasy execution scenario does not fit the description of). However, they have guns because not everyone is willing to cooperate, and as human beings, they are allowed to defend their own life. The subject of Mike Brown is >an entirely different thread, but all evidence points towards Wilson being innocent, with every single "eye witness" making their rounds on the news being caught in lies. I'm willing to bet that if you actually were a cop like you wish you were, you would see just how often your precious felons will lie to get out of a crime, and just how often their community rallies around them in an excuse to steal new TVs for "justice". That really is a bad analogy. A lion in a suburban area tends to be shot because they pose a threat to the safety of those in the area. Only under special circumstances would a team from a zoo (since they are the only ones trained to deal with them) would come to an area and tranquilize it. A lion is just a lion. Unlike a human, it's not capable of complex thought, and only thinks of staying alive and passing its genes on. If it attacks some one, it's not for that person's money, but because it needs to eat and sees the human as a meal. And "surviving" in a civilized society is not robbing from your fellow man in order to survive. Seriously? You think young cops have ruined the image of law enforcement, but you want FELONS to be involved in it and think that will make the cops look better?

This usually isn't my thing, but I had a pretty detailed dream last night that I thought everyone might enjoy. It was in the dead of winter in rural Missouri, and our department was in full deployment. Why? Two Islamic extremist brothers responsible for a number of terrorist bombings across the Midwest, resulting in the deaths of 60 people, were spotted in nearby Kansas City. After a failed attack there, they were on the run and had abducted 3 little girls last night to use as human shields. Earlier that morning, we had found their getaway car without gas, and there were no reports of stolen cars in the area. We knew they were on foot, and the net was swiftly closing in on them. My partner's and my feet crunch through the snow as we were performing a welfare check. A school had reported that 2 students who were related had not checked in today, and upon calling the house where the students lived with their grandparents, the school received no answer. We knocked and called in to no response, and we were preparing to kick the door open. It was then that we realized that a barn door partly open. We called for additional units as we cautiously approached the building. With our sidearms drawn, we moved inside the bare earth floor shack. Upon clearing the one room barn, I noticed a piece of wood partly sticking up. My partner covered me as I lifted it up, and I nearly threw up at the site. A family of four, bloody and still warm, but long past any chance of being saved, was lying in a shallow grave. They didn't even have the decency to give a proper burial. We then heard screams from our radio to get outside. We rushed outside where 2 sheriff's deputies and a state trooper were. They were pointing into a pine tree near the barn, and we could see movement in it. I started screaming for some one to grab a rifle, but none of us had one (oddly enough in one of my dreams). More officers started to arrive on scene when a suspect started climbing down from the tree, approximately 50 yards away. What he did when he reached the ground was puzzling. Almost like a game of "Red Light, Green Light" with much more dire stakes, he was ignoring orders and running a short distance, then stopping. At 50 yards, 30 yards and finally 10 yards, he stopped. I then noticed wires on him. I drew my Glock on him (I still don't know why it wasn't already out) right as he got ready to run. I put nearly my entire magazine of .45 ACP into where his heart would be. As he was going down, there was a dumbfounded expression on his face, almost like he didn't expect us to shoot him after continuously approaching and ignoring repeated orders to stop. Several cops joined me as I moved to clear the body, and I then checked my magazine and topped it off. I had fired 11 shots. An area SWAT team showed up at that point and began to assert control over the situation when 3 smaller figures came tumbling down out of the tree. 2 cops fired one round each, but thankfully missed, as multiple calls of "cease fire!" went out. I joined 2 other officers to run after the girls to make sure they were safe, and found them in another barn on the property. We convinced the girls that we were good guys and carried them back with us. Upon returning, everything had died down. Talking to other officers, a SWAT Team stayed at the front while a second one moved behind the tree where the second suspect was still holed up on. The second suspect got out of the tree and ran, but was quickly tackled by the officers in the back. The first suspect had live explosives on him and I was commended by everyone on scene for stopping him.

Happy birthday!

Obviously, we don't know the policies. However, we do know that the wrong person was shot by police, and that police have a history of poor firearms training which often leads to situations like this. Sorry if it seemed like I was holding that point of the army against you, and I wasn't accusing you of not knowing. I was just pointing that out for the others on here. Additionally for others, units that are about to be deployed often get a lot more training that is more relevant, since infantry training primarily covers basic tactics due to the variety of infantry units some one may be assigned to. It's not necessarily just because of a few cops. PDs in my county are the most well funded per-capita in the state, leading to more training in all things. This is also compared to a national qualification average of, based on everything I've read from people claiming to be officers on the internet (while not verified, it sounds reasonable considering state requirements and it was based on several topics on officer.com) of twice a year. Two things that need to be kept in mind are the larger departments, which have a large budget but can't spend as much on the individual officer, and smaller departments that can't spend much on each officer either due to having small budgets. Because of these budgets, a lot of PDs that fall into either category can't afford to conduct more than the state required training. My state only requires 50 rounds to be fired once a year. To shoot, the department would need to rent a space on a gun range in the area, which costs additional money. The range I go to gets about $250,000 annually from roughly 30 agencies that use it, which is about $8,000 for each agency a year. So using all this, it is reasonable to assume that police not performing well in a real world life or death situation can be attributed to the poor training that most officers have.

I don't know where anyone in this topic blamed the individual cops. I see failed policies, and I don't think they should continue. The main cause of what happened has to do with a lack of awareness of surroundings when shooting occurred, which could have been prevented by training under stress. I took a basic defensive rifle course last year and a big part of it introduced from early on was being aware of your surroundings in a full 360 degrees. Just because a threat appears doesn't mean a situation becomes static, and police need to look for more potential hazards or complications as it goes on. On the point of the Army, that is because a small part of it is a combat related Military Occupation Specialty, and even less of that is a job where a rifle matters. I base the generalization on every single cop I have talked with (most I have met at gun events or while shooting) saying that almost none of their co workers shoot outside of qualification and other blanket statements. Some specific quotes that come to mind are "I'm willing to admit that most cops are terrible shots" and "most cops don't care as long as their gun goes bang." I also know qualifications in my area based on talking to those cops mentioned above, some times at the shooting range that all PDs in my county rent for qualifications and training. For reference, I live in a fairly rich county so cops have bigger budgets here than in most areas in my state. For some more specific items that affirm my generalizations, one of them containing an anecdote from Florida: http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/3738401-Police-firearms-training-How-often-should-you-be-shooting/ http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/01/robert-farago/new-study-police-firearms-training-sucks/ ( study link)

Right, but my point was in response to the idea that kids shouldn't know anything about guns. While we don't tell kids to go have sex after they get the talk, we hope that when they are in that situation, they do not do anything stupid because they were taught better.

Every single accidental shooting death of a child in a home is because of a combination of 2 things: 1)Primarily, not keeping a loaded gun locked up and 2) treating firearms as a "Don't ask, don't tell" subject. Children are naturally curious, and telling them not to do something will only make them do it. That's why in all the accidental child shooting deaths, they don't realize what they are doing and think they are playing with it until they pull the trigger. It's kind of like sex education. The proper response if firearms are in the house isn't to completely ignore it, but have an honest conversation about it and not letting them try to figure it out all by themselves.

MODERATOR NOTICE Moved to LCPDFR Discussion. The General Section is for general topics not covered by any other forum I wouldn't think it's advisable, since when I played MP everything was about uniformity, but I haven't played MP since .95 so it might be different.

It matters more so in a real life situation. It's not likely some one will go forward of the firing line while at a shooting range while some one is firing, and even though people should be wary of it, the chance of that happening is miniscule. However, in a real world shooting, bystanders can pop up from virtually anywhere. Especially at a business. People could have tried to get up from behind cover to run, blocking the officers line of fire. That doesn't mean to continue firing. While the suspect did have what appeared to be a gun and I'm not saying he wasn't asking for it, no shots were fired at the police. While still a dangerous situation, it didn't reach the point of ignore all bystanders and open fire, even though there is no excuse for that. Detroit is in shambles economically, especially the city government. I highly doubt they have the budget for any sort of decent firearms training. And the NYPD's firearms training is probably the worst in the country due to a combination of general laziness of many officers, 12 lb triggers and not enough the resources to have more than 2 basic qualifications a year. Just read this. The only departments that have what I would consider to be good firearms training for cops are smaller suburban agencies, since they are at a small enough size that each person can get additional training and because they have the budget to do so. While nothing in my area is as extreme as the city in Texas that was mentioned earlier, I know that one PD that fits my description near me has 4 handgun qualifications a year, including 1 low light and one stress/obstacle course shoot, as well as low light and stress shoots for rifles. And before anything is said, I'm not blaming the officer, but mainly the poor policies many agencies have that are some how acceptable.

I've been to full auto shoots before, and no matter how big some one was the full-auto owners kept a hand right behind the shoulder the gun was pressed into.

While they are less dangerous than actual guns (though I hate to define them like that), there are several dozen deaths a year attributed to air guns like the one held by the guy in the Wal-Mart. If something easily capable of killing is labeled a toy, it would make people think even more that they shouldn't be treated as dangerous.

There was another incident several years ago of a 9 year old boy in Nebraska that lost control of his father's Uzi while firing it, and unfortunately, a bullet killed the child. As many on here know, I'm very pro gun and I've been shooting since I was around 6, but letting children that young shoot a full auto that isn't A)a .22 or B)in a supported position should be child endangerment. To me, the real tragedy is that that girl has to live with what happened.

http://www.omaha.com/news/crime/robbery-suspect-dead-after-shooting-at-wendy-s-cops-tv/article_a919c242-2d98-11e4-9cee-001a4bcf6878.html I put this in the "Politics" section because it highlights a big concern with Police on a lack of training for many officers. While I hold no fault in the police for shooting the suspect, I have a major problem with the lack of training of many cops in the United States in regards to firearms. Before my dad ever allowed me to touch a gun, I had the three rules to firearms safety ingrained in my head. The particular one that applies in this situation is to be aware of your target and what's beyond it. Unfortunately, most PDs have minuscule firearms training, usually involving between 2-4 qualifications a year with handguns (usually at a still target without any sort of stress involved) and 1 qualification for each long gun.

Link is in the description of this video, but it doesn't have an ELS V8 settings file and there's a chance that light placement will be messed up.

The issue is that some vehicle models aren't compatible with ELS V8. Unfortunately, there is no known fix to this besides downgrading to ELS 7.