The reason why is because handguns are illegal in the UK (not sure about the US) and rifles are only legal if used for hunting. I think officers should but should only use em under correct circumstances (like if they are under fire by criminals)

That can't possibly be the original reason. Police in the UK were unarmed from the very start, well before there were any restrictions on firearms. It may be one reason that they continue to be unarmed, but it is not why they were initially unarmed.

It's funny how ironic that was. That how in a proper, polite debate where I am simply stating an opinion, you call me "ignorant and stupid". Look who's talking.

And don't even try and argue you weren't talking to me. Both parts was directly aimed at my response.

"You oughta learn some Respect" - M_Y_COP_HISPANIC

You're right, I was talking about you. But no where in there did I call you stupid or ignorant. I said it's that line of thought that was.

Still respect you.......

There is absolutely no need got it in the slightest. Britain has some of the best gun control laws in the world and offenders face serious charges if these laws are broken. 

 

The attitude over here to guns is completely different and, I know it may be hard for some to believe, we can feel safe without a personal firearm.

If someone is sprinting at you with a knife you're gonna get stabbed regardless of how quickly the police show up. I mean, you can't exactly say "please wait a moment while I phone the police before you stab me, thanks"

I think he was referring to if someone sprinted at a police officer with a knife an armed police officer would be able to defend himself.

 

I think that if it is working for the police in the UK then there isn't any reason to change it. And apparently according to a survey someone mentioned the majority of police officers themselves do not want to carry firearms.

That can't possibly be the original reason. Police in the UK were unarmed from the very start, well before there were any restrictions on firearms. It may be one reason that they continue to be unarmed, but it is not why they were initially unarmed.

I am unsure of the actuall reason but its probably because we in the UK have extreme gun control laws. all firearms are illegal, and only pistols, shotguns and bolt, lever or semi auto rifles are allowed to be used if the owner has a permit or certificate to use it. And these cerificates are only valid for about 5 years. Any type of automatic firearm is illegal for anyone to even own in the UK. 

I think he was referring to if someone sprinted at a police officer with a knife an armed police officer would be able to defend himself.

 

I think that if it is working for the police in the UK then there isn't any reason to change it. And apparently according to a survey someone mentioned the majority of police officers themselves do not want to carry firearms.

Yes he probably was, but the point still stands. An ordinary unarmed police officer would not have the time to radio in for help if someone was sprinting at them with a knife. Besides, cs spray to the face and a batton to the wrist or ribs would throw the knife wielding maniac off, not to mention police wear stab vests as well.

 

And that is correct, the majority of people in the UK (let alone the police) don't want the police to have guns.

 

 

Also, this is totally why we don't need guns

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29551793

 

(notice, the news article above is real, but only intended for light humour in passing, enjoy)

If someone is sprinting at you with a knife you're gonna get stabbed regardless of how quickly the police show up. I mean, you can't exactly say "please wait a moment while I phone the police before you stab me, thanks"

Exactly... Which is why i think they should be armed..

But at the same time, They have been doing fine without weapons.

I Would personally never work for a UK agency for that reason though.

If someone comes at me with a knife, I Want to be able to protect myself.

As I said though, unarmed British police predated those laws. The first real gun restrictions were enacted in 1920; before then, guns were generally legal to obtain, but police were still unarmed. Mind you, the reason then may not be the reason now (and I have no doubt that the current firearms restrictions are part of the reason police are still unarmed these days), but the tradition of unarmed police started well before any firearms restrictions existed. I'm interested in why police weren't armed in the first place.

Yes he probably was, but the point still stands. An ordinary unarmed police officer would not have the time to radio in for help if someone was sprinting at them with a knife. Besides, cs spray to the face and a batton to the wrist or ribs would throw the knife wielding maniac off, not to mention police wear stab vests as well.

 

And that is correct, the majority of people in the UK (let alone the police) don't want the police to have guns.

 

 

Also, this is totally why we don't need guns

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-29551793

 

(notice, the news article above is real, but only intended for light humour in passing, enjoy)

Do police in UK Wear stab vests?

Because here in the US we only wear Bullet-Proof vests.

Which i can assure you, Will not stop a knife or any penetrable item.

The chance that someone "happens to pull out a gun" is virtually zero. A person cannot legally acquire a gun and then carry it around in such a way that it happens in the states or other countries.

As a result there is no need for us to equip firearms for safety.

If a gun is spotted in the UK by a member of the public armed response units typically deal with it instantly.

That's interesting, comparing that the what happens here in the US. If our Police didn't carry guns, I'm sure crime would be a whole lot worse here. Especially since we're bordering Mexico, which is famous for it's corrupt politicians, corrupt Police, gang violence, and massive drug trafficking.

 

But anyways... yea. lol

Like I've already said, I'm very ignorant on how the UK handles their problems. What would happen if an officer in the UK was ambushed by someone who just happened to have a firearm? Or if an officer walked up to a car he pulled over, and the person started shooting? Wouldn't that officer be defenseless since he'd only have a taser or baton? I'm not trying to be a douche, I just really don't know.

Well yes your right. I someones stopped and they open fire when the officer arrives at the window then yes the officer is defenseless but again it's an extremely rare occurrence. Also I have heard that ANPR units have shotguns in the boot/trunk although i'm not 100% sure about this.  

Edited October 9, 201411 yr by QuantumHD

Let me be an asshole here and say: yes. I think they should, because my patrols and other British patrols would be far more exciting   

 

On a more serious note, I think police should be armed with more publicity than guns. That's what they are more in need of at the moment.

Edited October 9, 201411 yr by Double Doppler

Exactly... Which is why i think they should be armed..

But at the same time, They have been doing fine without weapons.

I Would personally never work for a UK agency for that reason though.

If someone comes at me with a knife, I Want to be able to protect myself.

 

This is actually the kind of attitude I dislike about the armed police forces in the world and those in favour of guns. (I'm very much anti-guns).

Why is it that only a firearm can protect you? Why can you not use your training to disarm the suspect, you have cs spray and a batton and a stab vest. Why must people insist that a gun is the only way to protect yourself?

I have a black belt in a self-defence martial arts (probably why I am so anti-guns/anti-fighting), if someone ran at me with a knife I'd attempt to either run away or render the guy incapable of moving. I'd probably get hurt but at least I get to live. I don't NEED a gun to shoot him in the face 12 times and shout "yeah bitch how d'ya like that?!" because fuck you all I have a gun. There is absolutely no need for a gun, they cause more problems than they solve.

 

And with that attitude comes the floodgate. "Well if the police need guns to protect themselves, we must need guns too" which leads to more deaths and more gun related crime.

 

And saints, please bare in mind I'm not criticising you directly. More so the attitude as a general concept.

You're right, I was talking about you. But no where in there did I call you stupid or ignorant. I said it's that line of thought that was.

Still respect you.......

 

"Saying that they have a better rep than US police officers because they don't carry guns, is ignorant and stupid."

 

"You're right, I was talking about you."

 

wat.

This is actually the kind of attitude I dislike about the armed police forces in the world and those in favour of guns. (I'm very much anti-guns).

Why is it that only a firearm can protect you? Why can you not use your training to disarm the suspect, you have cs spray and a batton and a stab vest. Why must people insist that a gun is the only way to protect yourself?

I have a black belt in a self-defence martial arts (probably why I am so anti-guns/anti-fighting), if someone ran at me with a knife I'd attempt to either run away or render the guy incapable of moving. I'd probably get hurt but at least I get to live. I don't NEED a gun to shoot him in the face 12 times and shout "yeah bitch how d'ya like that?!" because fuck you all I have a gun. There is absolutely no need for a gun, they cause more problems than they solve.

 

And with that attitude comes the floodgate. "Well if the police need guns to protect themselves, we must need guns too" which leads to more deaths and more gun related crime.

 

And saints, please bare in mind I'm not criticising you directly. More so the attitude as a general concept.

I Completely agree with and understand what you are saying...

But tasers do not always work. That is a proven fact.

Here is proof. 

You can see the officer deploy a taser into the left of his face, Having no effect besides pissing him off.

Besides tasers, Maybe CS spray would work, But when a man is charging you at close range, CS would be hard to quickly spray, And at the same time, Would most likely get into your eyes as well, Disrupting your ability to counteract with the suspect.

As for batons, These seem like they would work.. Which they probably would, But i generally would hate to come into range of him lunging at me. Which would be how close you would need to be to use any type of melee force.

Therefore leaving guns as the only "Safe" way to counteract with this kind of scenario.

It sucks that we have to use guns.. But, i honestly have to say, If you are charging a officer with a deadly weapon.. You know what's coming.

Now, If you were on drugs or another substance you most likely would not even think about what you are doing.

Thus being why i choose to avoid any drugs.

Another thing that should probably be taken into account, is that in most European countries, cops patrol in pairs. So unlike a lot of US departments, you'll have 2 officers in 1 car.

 

But like I said, they've got guns over here but they rarely use them. Say, a person with a knife is threatening cops. Either they would keep him busy long enough for a 2nd unit to arrive from the other side (shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, if not less) or one of the officers would just sneak around and come in from the side or back so the suspect won't see it coming. No guns needed, no serious injuries and no 5 hours worth of paperwork. It's worked more than once over here.

Another thing that should probably be taken into account, is that in most European countries, cops patrol in pairs. So unlike a lot of US departments, you'll have 2 officers in 1 car.

 

But like I said, they've got guns over here but they rarely use them. Say, a person with a knife is threatening cops. Either they would keep him busy long enough for a 2nd unit to arrive from the other side (shouldn't take more than 5 minutes, if not less) or one of the officers would just sneak around and come in from the side or back so the suspect won't see it coming. No guns needed, no serious injuries and no 5 hours worth of paperwork. It's worked more than once over here.

 

In my area it is quite common for Police Officers to patrol in 4's. Especially the Armed Response Units, I have never seen less than 4 officers on one. So, if a single person ran at someone with a knife, I would like to think that 4 officers would be able to control them.

Do police in UK Wear stab vests?

Because here in the US we only wear Bullet-Proof vests.

Which i can assure you, Will not stop a knife or any penetrable item.

Actually that is not true. Most agencies have vests that have the plate insert for added protection against blades.

 

This is actually the kind of attitude I dislike about the armed police forces in the world and those in favour of guns. (I'm very much anti-guns).

Why is it that only a firearm can protect you? Why can you not use your training to disarm the suspect, you have cs spray and a batton and a stab vest. Why must people insist that a gun is the only way to protect yourself?

I have a black belt in a self-defence martial arts (probably why I am so anti-guns/anti-fighting), if someone ran at me with a knife I'd attempt to either run away or render the guy incapable of moving. I'd probably get hurt but at least I get to live. I don't NEED a gun to shoot him in the face 12 times and shout "yeah bitch how d'ya like that?!" because fuck you all I have a gun. There is absolutely no need for a gun, they cause more problems than they solve.

 

And with that attitude comes the floodgate. "Well if the police need guns to protect themselves, we must need guns too" which leads to more deaths and more gun related crime.

 

And saints, please bare in mind I'm not criticising you directly. More so the attitude as a general concept.

Every defensive tactics instructor will tell you that the lethal range for a knife wielding suspect is 21 feet, this is known as the "21 foot rule" (crazy name, I know). I don't know about you but if I know the suspect has a knife I'm going to want to stay out of that 21 foot range meaning that open hand tactics (commonly referred as "going hand to hand") is not desirable because that puts you at extreme risk of being stabbed. OC spray is useless in any situation where you need an immediate effect because it can take anywhere from a few seconds to a few minutes to take effect and a determined suspect can fight through OC spray easily. Using a baton brings up the same issue with open hand tactics, you have to be close to the suspect to use it and that puts you in extreme danger. You could attempt to use your taser however unless you work for an agency that issues the larger cartridges (not many do) then the max range of a standard X26 taser cartridge is 15 feet. Not to mention that if you use the taser you have to make sure both prongs hit the suspect and penetrate his clothing to make contact with his skin and they have to get a good enough spread on the suspect. With all those requirements I do not want to bet my life on the taser when I only have one cartridge to get it right. Law enforcement in the US is trained to be one level above the suspect and the knife is a deadly weapon meaning the police respond with deadly force.

 

And I find your example of using a firearm against a knife wielding suspect offensive to police officers here and an extreme exaggeration of what they do. No police officer in the US wants to shoot someone but sometimes there is no other choice. And when a police officer is forced to shoot someone they are not happy about it and I doubt any of the are thinking "yeah bitch how'd you like that". Those kinds of statements incite hatred towards police because people will actually believe that police think and say those things.

Actually that is not true. Most agencies have vests that have the plate insert for added protection against blades.

 

 

Well, Learn something new everyday! Thanks :P

Let me be an asshole here and say: yes. I think they should, because my patrols and other British patrols would be far more exciting   

 

On a more serious note, I think police should be armed with more publicity than guns. That's what they are more in need of at the moment.

Agreed. The Greater Manchester Police especially. Worst police service for Domestic abuse.