DivineHustle

No, that's not what you just said dude. I never said that if they are failing it is their fault. I said that if they are failing, it's most likely their fault. There's a big difference between the two. One is saying that it's always their fault no matter the circumstances. The other is saying that it's most likely their fault, but there is a possibility that it's actually not their fault. You are still misinterpreting what I'm saying, and it's why we're still stuck on this. I've been saying the same thing since my first post.

He's not lying is what you aren't getting.

I respect him because he speaks his mind. He has every right under the constitution of the United States to say whatever the hell he wants to say, whether it hurts someone's feelings or not. There are so many news networks and celebrities and politicians that aren't willing to go up to a podium and say what needs to be said, because if they do they'll hurt someone's feelings and receive backlash. Donald Trump is saying what needs to be said, he's saying what America's politicians are too afraid to say. He's saying what's absolutely true, and he's taking the backlash from the liberals and advocates of political correctness like a man. Rather than crawl up and apologize because he hurt someone's feelings, he's speaking his mind like he should. He has my respect, and he's definitely got my vote, whether he's serious or not; and you just confirmed it.

I just told you why I respect him. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over again.

You are misinterpreting my words, 13ubba, and you have been for the past 3 days that we've been debating. I didn't say that if they're in a financial crisis it's their fault. I said that if they're in a financial crisis it's most likely their fault. The United States has systems in place to where you can't just be hopelessly broke, unless you did something to screw your own life up. You aren't just born with absolutely nothing, and remain that way for the rest of your life here in America.

I like when it erupts into complete chaos. Bodies all over the place and people just fighting left and right. A few years ago the wrestlers would come out and fight and a bunch of referees had to come and break it up. They started beating up the referees and security ran out. They started beating up the security and "police" ran out and handcuffed them. It was hilariously silly. LOL

In that case, as I've said many times before, it isn't his fault. If he needs welfare to continue standing in a somewhat financially stable state, then he deserves it. He's been working his butt off and something unfortunate happened out of his control. As I've said before, unfortunate things do happen and in that case they absolutely deserve welfare. There's a difference between people like that, and people that weren't ever working to begin with. You keep saying that I am generalizing all people that use welfare and saying that all of them are lazy. I am not saying that all people on welfare are lazy. What I am saying is that there are a lot of people on welfare that really shouldn't be on it at all. You did not specifically say that welfare was perfect or that everyone on welfare needs it, but you implied that people on welfare are on it for a reason. I disagree with that, some people are on welfare out of laziness. Not everyone on welfare is on welfare because of a financial crisis that they're trying to recover from. Some people are on it because they can live off of it, and they'd rather sit on their asses and soak it up than go out and try to raise their annual digits. Those bad neighborhoods I keep referring to. Some of those Baltimore neighborhoods people can barely afford to purchase food. That's a basic necessity that everyone should have access to here in America. But you know what's funny? Those same neighborhoods where people can barely afford to purchase food are the exact same neighborhoods that the rioting took place in. Those are the exact same neighborhoods that have the worst crime in the entire city. The problem here is that you think I'm saying all welfare recipients are lazy and choose to live in bad neighborhoods, and when someone loses their job or goes through a financial crisis it's all their fault. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that there are people on welfare that really shouldn't be on welfare, and they're only on welfare because they are lazy. I'm saying that when someone is in a financial crisis, I'm sure that it's usually their fault. Not always their fault, such as the man you mentioned previously where his business shut down, but someone who decided to goof off in school or go to college just for the girls. Or buy a brand new luxury car when they knew that they couldn't afford it. Or go out and vacation to the United Kingdom when they were already in debt.

Hurting people's feelings isn't against the law. They'll just have to grow a set of balls and deal with it. He has every right to say whatever he wants, whether it's right or wrong. That's why I respect him. He defies the ideology of political correctness. I agree. While I do have respect for Donald Trump, I honestly don't think that he's competent enough to actually be our president. In all sincerity, I don't think he's really serious about running for president. I feel like he's only doing this for the media attention. Because she's a woman, and that's all that matters. Kind of like how when Obama first ran for president, 97% of blacks voted for him. The second time he ran, it was something like 80+% voted for him.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know everyone's situation but who's fault is it if they're failing? Is it my fault that the man across the street is broke? Is it your fault that the homeless guy up the street is still homeless? Is it the governments fault? Is it the fault of the kids at school? No, it's their fault. People need to learn to get up off of their butts and do something about it, and that's the problem I have with welfare. Honestly 13ubba, you can't possibly sit here and say that the welfare system is perfectly fine and every single recipient of welfare absolutely needs it. That's called a perfect world, and this world is far from perfect. The debate hasn't been at all inconsistent from my perspective. The issue we're having here is a conglomerate of misunderstandings. I'm not trying to be rude or anything but you just are not understanding what I'm saying.

No, you are confusing my opinion. Again, I'm not saying that all welfare recipients are lazy. I'm saying that there are lazy welfare recipients, and there are people that actually NEED welfare. The people that are just lazy generally live in those Baltimore ghettos at their own will. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. People are stupid, and you'd think that shopping cheaper and getting into a budget is common sense, but there are plenty of people out there that still have not done that and continue to struggle as a result. If you're in a financial hole, you've done something wrong OR something went wrong. You just don't go into debt out of thin air. Something had to happen to cause you to go into that debt. Be it a bad investment or a house fire with no insurance. Doesn't matter the circumstances. If you're in financial trouble then clearly something isn't right, and it's probably you. Take one for the team, that's how our system of living currently works. If being homeless for a year will grant me a 6 digit salary, fuck yes I'll be homeless for a year. It sucks and being homeless isn't easy, it's really not. It's really not. But if it will allow me to permanently move forward, then I'll do what I have to do. I'm a Christian so under my circumstances something like that would fall under a category in the bible. May the end of the day man, I'm not saying that welfare is a bad thing. Welfare is a good thing for people that NEED it. A lot of people are on welfare and they really shouldn't be on it to begin with.

More than 100 million Americans are on welfare. That's 1 out of every 3 Americans.

I make the assumption that everyone rioting in Ferguson is on welfare because I doubt that a hard-working and financially stable family would go out and riot in the streets. It happens but I'm sure that it's much more common that today's criminals aren't necessarily as financially well off as the average family. A doubt that a millionaire would run amok in the streets trashing and stealing when compared to someone that's unemployed and on welfare. It happens though I suppose, I haven't met every single person on the planet to declare that as being fact. What happens in the meantime while taking classes and not working really depends on the circumstances of that particular family. Some families would stay with relatives. Some would do side jobs and make a little cash just to get by. Some would downsize in living space and thus decrease the cost. Some would just simply be homeless. In my opinion, people under these circumstances need to look at the bigger picture. They shouldn't be so focused on "here and now", they should look to the future and see what they can do to ensure a successful future. If being homeless for a year and staying at motels will allow me to make 6 digits in the future after I finish school, which our circumstances weren't that severe, then I absolutely would do that. I'd do anything to pull myself out of the hole I dug myself in to begin with. Of course things happen, house fires, job loss, etc, but you've got to move on and keep going. You can't sit there and give up and accept welfare and drop out of school. Education is priority to getting back on track if you've never had one to begin with, in my opinion; debatable though. If someone has been working for years and nothing is changing, then they have to be doing something wrong. Again, I can't sit here and tell them exactly what they should be doing because I don't know their circumstances, but if nothing is changing in their favor then they aren't doing something right. Maybe they need to move into a cheaper neighborhood, buy cheaper groceries from cheaper stores, get rid of their car and take the bus or walk, I just don't know. My point in this part of the discussion is that there's always something that you can do to make your life better. There's never a time in anyones life, at least here in America, where you're fucked and just helplessly fucked for life with no possible chance of recovery. I don't know about other countries but we have things set in place to where that's just not possible here. Even if it takes a lifetime to recover, you're never just screwed and may as well be dead. I'm trying to separate welfare recipients into two separate categories but you keep putting them back together. I'm trying to say that there are people who seriously need that welfare. Then there are people that really don't need that welfare, but continue to soak it up because they are lazy. You seem to be joining them together and saying that everyone who's on welfare really doesn't want to be on welfare. As mentioned before, some people really don't mind being on welfare. This takes us back to the whole Baltimore ghetto and community thing.

When I said "an entire community" I was actually generalizing all of Ferguson's welfare recipients that actually have the TIME to go out and riot. This just goes back to my original point that some people actually don't mind being on welfare and living in a so called "bad" neighborhood. Why should they get up and go work when they're just fine on welfare and living in a ghetto? I don't see any standards or self-expectations there, which is where the laziness starts to become visible. There's so much people can do now to prevent themselves from being jobless after they graduate from high school. I could have taken a class for one year that would qualify me to work as a pharmaceutical technician. Not necessarily the best pay but it's a job for Christ sakes. But this just ties in to our education being crappy in some locations, and rather than our government FIX those locations the money is going to the millions on welfare and other stupid stuff. Well you stated that welfare doesn't hurt the economy. I disagree on that, it kind of does. The government continued to hand out my tax dollars to people that didn't make smart decisions growing up, or to unfortunate children of incompetent parents. No, just because you're on welfare doesn't mean you're an idiot or stupid or lazy. It just means you're in a very unfortunate position for whatever reason and because of it, those that are successful have to pay up to help you KEEP up. We were on welfare for a while as we lived in Baltimore, but we worked our asses off and got out of that ghetto and bought a beautiful home. We were even homeless before we actually lived in Baltimore for a few days because we had nowhere to go. We stayed at a hotel. But we worked and got out of that situation. My mother went back to school, I did my absolute best in school. Now she's making 6 digits a year, and I'm trying to serve. What was my point in sharing not this? To provide an example of people that had nothing and gradually built something from it. We're off of welfare now. The only issue I have with welfare is with those on it because they are lazy. I don't have any issue with welfare for those that NEED it as we did, but when you choose to survive off of it and decide to live in a terrible neighborhood as a result? That really gets to me.

I don't recall ever saying that all people on welfare are lazy, and if I did that's not true at all, which I'm sure I didn't. It is true though, government benefits don't necessarily help anything other than the benefit recipients. Also keep in mind that George W. Bush had about a 20% approval rating. About 42% of America consider themselves Republican. If we are to do the math here, this means that more than half of Republicans didn't support George W. Bush if we assume that his 20% approval rating only consist of Republican supporters. I didn't support George W. Bush, so most Republicans actually don't support that whole middle-eastern thing. A lot of Republicans do support fixing what we broke, which is the middle-east and their "Islamic Issues". I think where we're disagreeing on the welfare topic is that people are willingly on welfare, versus people that are on welfare because they have to be. I never said that all people on welfare are lazy, nor did I imply that. What I did say was that there are a lot of people that are on welfare because they are lazy.

No no no no you've got it all wrong man. This is what I'm saying: Some people prefer to live in (What most people that don't live in the community consider) a ghetto, due to the atmosphere, cultural and racial similarities, and generally the friendliness of the residents towards those who share those similarities mentioned previously. For example, black inner city Baltimore neighborhoods. We sit here and consider those neighborhoods to be crime-ridden ghettos, but do the actual residents of those neighborhoods consider it to be a ghetto? Absolutely not, they call it their home, and they see nothing wrong with living there. Especially if they all share the same culture and race. I know this because I've lived in Baltimore for a few years, and it wasn't one of the nicer parts of the city. Sure, no one wants to be low income or financially unstable, but sometimes it's either that, or a neighborhood like I described above with benefits. Now onto the point of this being relevant to welfare and government benefits. If said persons could live in the described neighborhoods above off of welfare and government benefits, they absolutely would. If I wanted to live in a "ghetto" as we call it since we don't actually live there, and survive and suffice in that ghetto off of welfare and benefits I absolutely would. These are the circumstances that I'm sure a lot of the residents are under. They don't mind living in a "ghetto" neighborhood; and since it's considered a ghetto, it's smack cheap to live there and welfare is enough to suffice.

With all due respect, 13ubba, you are completely missing my point. My point is that some people prefer to live in the ghetto because of the atmosphere and cultural similarities of its residents. An easy example would be a black person wanting to live in a majority black community. All Black communities in Baltimore are ghetto's. That's just how racially divided and segregated Baltimore is as a city. It's either White or Black, with maybe some mixture in the medium income neighborhoods, which aren't prosperous. Based on the arguments that you're providing, I can assume that you've never lived in a ghetto before. This might be why you're missing my point.

This is exactly how I feel about it.

I'm glad those officers fucked him up.

Good things come to people that work. Some people seem to think that waiting will suffice.

Trust me, I lived in a Baltimore ghetto for some time and most of the people there are of one race and remain in the ghetto all day, which is only residential might I add. Baltimore office buildings are near the harbor. The inner city is all residential with illegally placed liquor stores. When you see the exact same people sitting on their doorstep smoking and drinking liquor every single day, it gets hard to assume that they even have a job. A lot of people in Baltimore have no issue with living in a ghetto that's majority of their race and culture. The ghetto in Baltimore isn't just the ghetto. A lot more goes on in these ghettos such as cultural parades, events, gatherings, cookouts, etc. Things that you'd only see happen in the ghetto and not the rest of Baltimore unless it was some sort of big special event. A lot of people wouldn't mind not working or working for little pay to live in a neighborhood like that. This is probably why Baltimores ghetto's are still jam-packed with people, and they aren't getting any smaller.

Not much people can really do if they have nowhere to go. I'm not going to get into an accident just to get out of the way, I'm sorry.

Yahoo is known to have a very hostile community towards itself. The Yahoo community doesn't really like the political affiliation of its writers. Funny comments though.

I can't give you an answer as to why anyone would want to live off of an assumed $800 a month because I sure as hell don't. The only way you'd be able to get some reasons for that would be to drive through those neighborhoods and ask the locals. If you've ever been to Baltimore I recommend driving down some of the rougher areas. A whole lot of nothing goes on, and people just walk around with nothing to do.