BBC Article

CBS Live Reporting

 

Quote

Police in Parkland, Florida, have arrested a suspect after responding to a deadly shooting at a local high school.

 

More than an hour after the shooting began, the Broward Sherriff's Office said the "shooter is now in custody".

 

But it warned that the scene at Stoneman Douglas High School "is still active".

 

School superintendent Robert Runcie told reporters: "there are fatalities involved here."

 

He also said the suspect was "potentially a former student… that individual, we believe, is in custody".

 

"So far we have at least 14 victims," the Sherriff's department said, without specifying their condition.

 

US media outlets reported that up to 20 people may have been injured, while some have been evacuated.

 

I don't really know how to react. I...don't know what else to add. Discuss.

 

EDIT: CNN says 16 dead.

Edited February 14, 20188 yr by Hullian111

I'm not going to share it, but there was cell phone recording from inside a classroom, and the shots sounded like they were right outside.  Towards the end of the video it almost sounded like the screams were from those that had been shot.

 

School shootings in the US are only going to keep increasing unless something is actually done.  It's so easy for the lawmakers and what not to say "This is horrible and needs to be stopped", but when it comes time to act, no one wants to do a damn thing.

Nothings going to change. We'll move on just like the last 18 times since the year started.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Kallus said:

I'm not going to share it, but there was cell phone recording from inside a classroom, and the shots sounded like they were right outside.  Towards the end of the video it almost sounded like the screams were from those that had been shot.

 

School shootings in the US are only going to keep increasing unless something is actually done.  It's so easy for the lawmakers and what not to say "This is horrible and needs to be stopped", but when it comes time to act, no one wants to do a damn thing.

I saw that video on a Discord server. It was just horrible to hear.

3 minutes ago, Hullian111 said:

I saw that video on a Discord server. It was just horrible to hear.

One of the most frightening things I have ever seen. Especially being in school in Florida. 

25 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

18 times since the year started.

 

 

??? you serious, that many? I had no idea...

Definitely sad and unfortunate. Condolences to the families that lost loved ones. 

28 minutes ago, Sinnisa said:

??? you serious, that many? I had no idea...

School shootings? No, there’s only been 4 others this year. 

As always, I eagerly await a proposed solution that doesn't infringe the constitutional rights of law-abiding citizens who have never and will never unjustifiably use a weapon to harm another person.

getting rid of gun free zones will solve the problem but seems to go over most peoples heads, I do not like going to areas that have signs posted gun free zones....might as well say sitting ducks zone, if I was the parents I would sue the fuck out of that school for leaving people defenseless but instead you have the looney bin gun control crowd shouting for more strict gun laws are usually the most ignorant and uneducated group in this country, theres almost always a drill before a shooting but no one mentions that......nothing to see here move along

19 minutes ago, J T said:

getting rid of gun free zones will solve the problem but seems to go over most peoples heads, I do not like going to areas that have signs posted gun free zones....might as well say sitting ducks zone, if I was the parents I would sue the fuck out of that school for leaving people defenseless but instead you have the looney bin gun control crowd shouting for more strict gun laws are usually the most ignorant and uneducated group in this country, theres almost always a drill before a shooting but no one mentions that......nothing to see here move along

1) Totally incorrect. There were two ARMED officers there. Would you like students to carry guns as well? Teachers? What happens when a teacher gets disgruntled? What happens if a student obtains the teacher's gun? That is the worst solution floated whatsoever.

 

2) We are the most armed country per capita among first world countries. We also have the most gun homicides in the first world. It's not a coincidence. 

Here are some graphs:

Spoiler

It is almost directly proportional the gun ownership rate of a country versus the gun deaths. (One key exception is Switzerland which has conscription and trains its citizens gun safety by law) You'll also notice that the states that do not fall directly on the line of best fit are also some of the least densely populated states in the country. 

 

3) Also, you do not understand the very reasoning behind "gun free zones". 

Lawmakers are not stupid, both sides know that a sign will not stop criminals, but that's not what the gun free zones are for. Gun free zones are almost universally for preventing accidental shootings. For example when someone is cleaning a gun and it goes off, you don't want that person (even if they are law abiding gun owners) near other people in public.

 

4) I'm really not sure what you mean by "theres almost always a drill before a shooting but no one mentions that". Whether you mean that there are fake shootings happening, or if the drills aren't working. If you are talking about the second one, then I agree, the drills do nothing but calm the nerves of students until either the resource officers (again this school, and many schools in Florida, had firearms) or the SWAT teams arrive. But there is really no drill to prepare children for being gunned down in school.

 

Finally, I understand, guns should be allowed for all law abiding citizens that want them and can safely train with them, but the amount of guns in this country is so ordinarily high that it makes it difficult for legislation that would protect those law abiding citizens.  

 

1 hour ago, Sinnisa said:

??? you serious, that many? I had no idea...

1 hour ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Definitely sad and unfortunate. Condolences to the families that lost loved ones. 

School shootings? No, there’s only been 4 others this year. 

"Only"

Yeah, and to clarify, based on one of the many definitions of mass shootings, this is 18. Based on others as many as 30, some others far less.  But Divine is correct, this is the fourth school shooting.

As a Canadian, it is a sad thing to admit that I've gotten used to these sort of headlines emerge from the states, and I was not surprised at all. Just disappointed in the broken system of gun regulation. If this was to happen in Canada, then I'd feel really shocked and upset, but its just such a common occurrence for this to happen in the U.S, and not just limited to school schooting, but mass shootings in general.  I hope the families of these victims will grieve in peace and find closure in their own time. 

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by GravelRoadCop

2 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

1) Totally incorrect. There were two ARMED officers there. Would you like students to carry guns as well? Teachers? What happens when a teacher gets disgruntled? What happens if a student obtains the teacher's gun? That is the worst solution floated whatsoever.

 

2) We are the most armed country per capita among first world countries. We also have the most gun homicides in the first world. It's not a coincidence. 

Here are some graphs:

  Reveal hidden contents

It is almost directly proportional the gun ownership rate of a country versus the gun deaths. (One key exception is Switzerland which has conscription and trains its citizens gun safety by law) You'll also notice that the states that do not fall directly on the line of best fit are also some of the least densely populated states in the country. 

 

3) Also, you do not understand the very reasoning behind "gun free zones". 

Lawmakers are not stupid, both sides know that a sign will not stop criminals, but that's not what the gun free zones are for. Gun free zones are almost universally for preventing accidental shootings. For example when someone is cleaning a gun and it goes off, you don't want that person (even if they are law abiding gun owners) near other people in public.

 

4) I'm really not sure what you mean by "theres almost always a drill before a shooting but no one mentions that". Whether you mean that there are fake shootings happening, or if the drills aren't working. If you are talking about the second one, then I agree, the drills do nothing but calm the nerves of students until either the resource officers (again this school, and many schools in Florida, had firearms) or the SWAT teams arrive. But there is really no drill to prepare children for being gunned down in school.

 

Finally, I understand, guns should be allowed for all law abiding citizens that want them and can safely train with them, but the amount of guns in this country is so ordinarily high that it makes it difficult for legislation that would protect those law abiding citizens.  

 

"Only"

Yeah, and to clarify, based on one of the many definitions of mass shootings, this is 18. Based on others as many as 30, some others far less.  But Divine is correct, this is the fourth school shooting.

yawn...lawmakers ARE stupid, they are the very reason we are trillions in debt and you want to talk about gun murders? look no further then Chicago, the most strictest gun laws in the nation yet hundreds of people die including children yet you don't see it reported in the lamestream media because it doesn't fit there agenda, that gun free zone didn't stop the shooter, so what are you going to do when the government goes rogue? restricting guns isn't going to prevent tyranny from happening, instead of blaming the gun we should blame politicians, we should blame big pharma for giving out so many shady drugs, and more importantly blame the gun free zone sign, it doesn't stop a criminal from doing harm oh heres a sign I guess I cant go in and shoot people, just remember the government is about control not safety and the media is the propaganda mouth piece, cant gut the economy when theres 300 million gun owners

3 minutes ago, GravelRoadCop said:

As a Canadian, it is a sad thing to admit that I've gotten used to these sort of headlines emerge from the states, and I was not surprised at all. Just disappointed in the broken system of gun regulation. If this was to happen in Canada, then I'd feel really shocked and upset, but its just such a common occurrence for this to happen in the U.S, and not just limited to school schooting, but mass shootings in general.  I hope the families of these victims will grieve in peace and find closure in their own time. 

you may think guns are the problem but when the government goes rogue you are FUCKED it has happened in history and it WILL happen again its a matter of when not if so instead of commenting about a subject you have no understanding of please do a thing called research before typing silly comments, we don't know if anything happened because they don't show any proof and the media is always full of shit and have an agenda

Your comments are more sillier than my dogs. Piss off with the whole " Do your research" rhetoric. Loosen your tinfoil straps please. 

17 minutes ago, J T said:

yawn...lawmakers ARE stupid, they are the very reason we are trillions in debt and you want to talk about gun murders? look no further then Chicago, the most strictest gun laws in the nation yet hundreds of people die including children yet you don't see it reported in the lamestream media because it doesn't fit there agenda, that gun free zone didn't stop the shooter, so what are you going to do when the government goes rogue? restricting guns isn't going to prevent tyranny from happening, instead of blaming the gun we should blame politicians, we should blame big pharma for giving out so many shady drugs, and more importantly blame the gun free zone sign, it doesn't stop a criminal from doing harm oh heres a sign I guess I cant go in and shoot people, just remember the government is about control not safety and the media is the propaganda mouth piece, cant gut the economy when theres 300 million gun owners

I am so glad you brought up Chicago because it's a talking point I'm well versed in refuting:

Chicago does have an extraordinary amount of shootings and they have, as you so eloquently put it, "the most strictest gun laws in the nations." The Chicago Police reported that at least 60% of guns confiscated from criminals in Chicago were from out of state. Many from Indiana. A state with far less restrictive gun laws right next to Chicago, which means criminals simply cross the border, buy the gun, go back across the border, and commit crimes. 

Sources: https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017-454016983.html

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140528/chicago/majority-of-illegally-owned-guns-first-bought-out-of-state-cops-mayor

 

 

There is an eerily similar situation in Boston, again 60% of guns confiscated come from outside the state.

Source: http://www.fox25boston.com/news/60-percent-of-guns-used-in-mass-crimes-come-from-out-of-state-1/66605904

 

Government goes rogue? Seriously. Ok. First of all, the chances of a government going rogue is so low it's laughable. Second of all, I wish you luck with your pistol against a Tank or an attack helicopter. That's ridiculous.

 

I addressed your gun free zone idea in my last argument and you introduced no new evidence or analysis so I won't even bother responding to that point. 

 

 

"just remember the government is about control not safety"

 

Just remember, parents lost kids, kids lost friends, etc. etc. etc. There are not "300 million gun owners" This is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about. According to the guardian, "Only 22 to 31% of Americans adults say they personally own a gun." and "Just 3% of American adults own a collective 133m firearms – half of America’s total gun stock." This is not an armed populace, it is an overarmed few. 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/the-gun-numbers-just-3-of-american-adults-own-a-collective-133m-firearms

 

 

I'd also like to point out that I use sources for my arguments, and you are just rambling, so there is not much for me to reply to, but I'd like to at least share the info with anyone who cares to see a different side of the argument.

 

 

 

20 minutes ago, GravelRoadCop said:

As a Canadian, it is a sad thing to admit that I've gotten used to these sort of headlines emerge from the states, and I was not surprised at all. Just disappointed in the broken system of gun regulation. If this was to happen in Canada, then I'd feel really shocked and upset, but its just such a common occurrence for this to happen in the U.S, and not just limited to school schooting, but mass shootings in general.  I hope the families of these victims will grieve in peace and find closure in their own time. 

I've become so numb to them

The gun-loving folks in the U.S. refuse to give up their guns. Ever. They are all the more convinced that every time one of these shootings at our schools in the U.S. takes place that they are going to be there, saving everyone. Delusions are a hard habit to break.

Just now, GravelRoadCop said:

The gun-loving folks in the U.S. refuse to give up their guns. Ever. They are all the more convinced that every time one of these shootings at our schools in the U.S. takes place that they are going to be there, saving everyone. Delusions are a hard habit to break.

Yes, and this is further evidenced by a spike in purchase of guns every time a mass shooting hits the news. 

6 minutes ago, thegreathah said:

I am so glad you brought up Chicago because it's a talking point I'm well versed in refuting:

Chicago does have an extraordinary amount of shootings and they have, as you so eloquently put it, "the most strictest gun laws in the nations." The Chicago Police reported that at least 60% of guns confiscated from criminals in Chicago were from out of state. Many from Indiana. A state with far less restrictive gun laws right next to Chicago, which means criminals simply cross the border, buy the gun, go back across the border, and commit crimes. 

Sources: https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017-454016983.html

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140528/chicago/majority-of-illegally-owned-guns-first-bought-out-of-state-cops-mayor

 

 

There is an eerily similar situation in Boston, again 60% of guns confiscated come from outside the state.

Source: http://www.fox25boston.com/news/60-percent-of-guns-used-in-mass-crimes-come-from-out-of-state-1/66605904

 

Government goes rogue? Seriously. Ok. First of all, the chances of a government going rogue is so low it's laughable. Second of all, I wish you luck with your pistol against a Tank or an attack helicopter. That's ridiculous.

 

I addressed your gun free zone idea in my last argument and you introduced no new evidence or analysis so I won't even bother responding to that point. 

 

 

"just remember the government is about control not safety"

 

Just remember, parents lost kids, kids lost friends, etc. etc. etc. There are not "300 million gun owners" This is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about. According to the guardian, "Only 22 to 31% of Americans adults say they personally own a gun." and "Just 3% of American adults own a collective 133m firearms – half of America’s total gun stock." This is not an armed populace, it is an overarmed few. 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/the-gun-numbers-just-3-of-american-adults-own-a-collective-133m-firearms

 

 

I'd also like to point out that I use sources for my arguments, and you are just rambling, so there is not much for me to reply to, but I'd like to at least share the info with anyone who cares to see a different side of the argument.

 

 

 

I've become so numb to them

wheres the proof that anything happened? you are so dependent on the media for information that they can say anything and you'll believe it...so gullible and the government wouldn't go rogue? what the FUCK are you drinking? ever heard the ndaa that was signed on new years eve in 2012 by obama? illegal spying? militarization of the police? trillions in debt? fake elections? federal reserve bank printing fake money as notes and claiming to be above the law? how many citizens have died at the hands of cops? if you think the government cares about your safety you are drinking to much fluoride, the supreme court ruled that cops do NOT have to protect you, so how many stories do you hear in the media of good guys stopping bad guys with guns? the facts still stand that there are far more deaths in Chicago then all the "mass shootings" combined but hey if you want to continue to live in fantasy land and unicorns in the government knock yourself out, thanks for showing your true colors

4 minutes ago, GravelRoadCop said:

The gun-loving folks in the U.S. refuse to give up their guns. Ever. They are all the more convinced that every time one of these shootings at our schools in the U.S. takes place that they are going to be there, saving everyone. Delusions are a hard habit to break.

seems like you are the one that's delusional if you think guns are the problem, how do you think hitler, mao,stalin killed so many people? if there were armed people in the school then it wouldn't of happened if anything even happened like in this case for example

 

2 hours ago, thegreathah said:

1) Totally incorrect. There were two ARMED officers there. Would you like students to carry guns as well? Teachers? What happens when a teacher gets disgruntled? What happens if a student obtains the teacher's gun? That is the worst solution floated whatsoever.

 

2) We are the most armed country per capita among first world countries. We also have the most gun homicides in the first world. It's not a coincidence. 

Here are some graphs:

  Hide contents

It is almost directly proportional the gun ownership rate of a country versus the gun deaths. (One key exception is Switzerland which has conscription and trains its citizens gun safety by law) You'll also notice that the states that do not fall directly on the line of best fit are also some of the least densely populated states in the country. 

 

3) Also, you do not understand the very reasoning behind "gun free zones". 

Lawmakers are not stupid, both sides know that a sign will not stop criminals, but that's not what the gun free zones are for. Gun free zones are almost universally for preventing accidental shootings. For example when someone is cleaning a gun and it goes off, you don't want that person (even if they are law abiding gun owners) near other people in public.

 

4) I'm really not sure what you mean by "theres almost always a drill before a shooting but no one mentions that". Whether you mean that there are fake shootings happening, or if the drills aren't working. If you are talking about the second one, then I agree, the drills do nothing but calm the nerves of students until either the resource officers (again this school, and many schools in Florida, had firearms) or the SWAT teams arrive. But there is really no drill to prepare children for being gunned down in school.

 

Finally, I understand, guns should be allowed for all law abiding citizens that want them and can safely train with them, but the amount of guns in this country is so ordinarily high that it makes it difficult for legislation that would protect those law abiding citizens.  

 

"Only"

Yeah, and to clarify, based on one of the many definitions of mass shootings, this is 18. Based on others as many as 30, some others far less.  But Divine is correct, this is the fourth school shooting.

1) We can play the “what if” game all day about anything. We can’t make decisions based on the probability of (highly) unlikely hypothetical situations. Why would I eat if there’s a chance that something could be wrong with the food? Why would I drive if there’s a possibility of me getting into a wreck? Why would I get a job if I could lose it and have to find another anyways? The system wouldn’t be as simple-minded as throwing a gun into a classroom and hoping for the best. There’d be clear procedures, specific regulations, teacher trainings, parental and law enforcement involvement, etc. It’s the same as officers having guns on their waists or in their vehicles. What happens if someone tries to grab their weapon from their waist or their vehicle? Maybe we should disarm the police to prevent that from happening. 

 

2) That is false. More guns don’t equal more crime. Whether or not guns should be banned isn’t up for debate, It’s already been decided on. Guns won’t be banned and the American people don’t want a ban on handguns or assault weapons. Most Americans actually believe that more guns would help reduce mass shootings. What’s also interesting is the fact that Americans as a whole don’t even believe that the gun control situation is the biggest issue facing the country. That’s also a terrible source that you’ve provided. I visited the website just now and I don’t see how you can take anything they post seriously, because it’s biased as hell man. Each article I read they’re just making a mockery of the right-wing and Donald Trump. A neutral and professional news source would give us the information and not make snark/ad-hominem attacks on the side. For me personally, assuming you got your charts from this source, that entire argument is rendered invalid due to the partisan that the site clearly shows, unless you can provide an additional source. If you’d like my sources, I’m happy to grab them from the last debate. 

 

3) I understand your point man but it’s still a relatively retarded concept, in my opinion. Putting up a sign isn’t going to prevent anything, whether it’s accidental or intentional. The only person that would obey a gun-free zone is a law-abiding citizen that probably wouldn’t do anything stupid or illegal to begin with. 

1 hour ago, GravelRoadCop said:

The gun-loving folks in the U.S. refuse to give up their guns. Ever. They are all the more convinced that every time one of these shootings at our schools in the U.S. takes place that they are going to be there, saving everyone. Delusions are a hard habit to break.

The gun-loving folks are supported by the Constitution, the US Supreme Court, and the rest of the country. You are in the shrinking minority. 

1 hour ago, thegreathah said:

Yes, and this is further evidenced by a spike in purchase of guns every time a mass shooting hits the news. 

That’d be because most Americans believe that more guns will decrease the number of mass shootings. The shooting happened in a gun free school. Everyone was at the mercy of the shooter. If he wanted to keep slaughtering he could have done so and nothing would have been done until the Police arrived. In a location with a gun owner, they can at least attempt to put a stop to it. Depending on the Police for everything will get you killed. A few weeks living in Baltimore taught me that. 

1 hour ago, thegreathah said:

I am so glad you brought up Chicago because it's a talking point I'm well versed in refuting:

Chicago does have an extraordinary amount of shootings and they have, as you so eloquently put it, "the most strictest gun laws in the nations." The Chicago Police reported that at least 60% of guns confiscated from criminals in Chicago were from out of state. Many from Indiana. A state with far less restrictive gun laws right next to Chicago, which means criminals simply cross the border, buy the gun, go back across the border, and commit crimes. 

Sources: https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/chicago-gun-trace-report-2017-454016983.html

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/20140528/chicago/majority-of-illegally-owned-guns-first-bought-out-of-state-cops-mayor

 

 

There is an eerily similar situation in Boston, again 60% of guns confiscated come from outside the state.

Source: http://www.fox25boston.com/news/60-percent-of-guns-used-in-mass-crimes-come-from-out-of-state-1/66605904

 

Government goes rogue? Seriously. Ok. First of all, the chances of a government going rogue is so low it's laughable. Second of all, I wish you luck with your pistol against a Tank or an attack helicopter. That's ridiculous.

 

I addressed your gun free zone idea in my last argument and you introduced no new evidence or analysis so I won't even bother responding to that point. 

 

 

"just remember the government is about control not safety"

 

Just remember, parents lost kids, kids lost friends, etc. etc. etc. There are not "300 million gun owners" This is just further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about. According to the guardian, "Only 22 to 31% of Americans adults say they personally own a gun." and "Just 3% of American adults own a collective 133m firearms – half of America’s total gun stock." This is not an armed populace, it is an overarmed few. 

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/nov/15/the-gun-numbers-just-3-of-american-adults-own-a-collective-133m-firearms

 

 

I'd also like to point out that I use sources for my arguments, and you are just rambling, so there is not much for me to reply to, but I'd like to at least share the info with anyone who cares to see a different side of the argument.

 

 

 

I've become so numb to them

So now why do you think that criminals leave the city to get their weapons where laws are more relaxed, and then return to the city where laws are more strict? Because law-abiding gun owners can’t defend themselves due to the strict laws. Criminals don’t have to be concerned with getting blasted by a home owner during a burglary or intrusion. I also saw you say earlier that lawmakers aren’t stupid. I dissent, lawmakers are completely foolish. It’s exactly why our congress can barely hit the double digits for approval ratings. 

 

The number of individual Americans that own guns isn’t necessarily relevant. It’s the number of homes with a gun present, which is about 48% and growing. I can provide my sources if you’d like to see them. I’m on my phone which is why I didn’t post them originally. 

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by TheDivineHustle
Grammatical corrections due to iPhone.

6 hours ago, GravelRoadCop said:

As a Canadian, it is a sad thing to admit that I've gotten used to these sort of headlines emerge from the states, and I was not surprised at all. Just disappointed in the broken system of gun regulation. If this was to happen in Canada, then I'd feel really shocked and upset, but its just such a common occurrence for this to happen in the U.S, and not just limited to school schooting, but mass shootings in general.  I hope the families of these victims will grieve in peace and find closure in their own time. 

 

That's what really puts it in perspective.  No other countries have this problem, it is just a US thing.  As cold as Canada is, I'd move there in a heartbeat.  They have their fair share of crimes, but not to the crazy extent as the US.

Everyone here seems to point the finger on the guns. Yes they do need to be harder to access. But actually, what is the one thing common in all these shootings (except terrorrist related ones like San Bernandino and Orlando)? Mental health. The US needs to mainstream its mental health.

 

I would suggest that before any restrictions on guns are put into place, the US should have a federal based gun ownership system run by the ATF or DHS. Florida has some of the least tight gun laws where these mass shootings happen most. 

 

I like guns, but when you've got shitty politics involved, it really makes me wonder: could we actually be safer by banning say an AR-15? The NRA is one of the biggest problems. Here in the UK we actually have an NRA (which is actually older) but a) no one has ever heard of it and b) it doesn't even have any political inflence. 

 

I'm sick of these shootings and until something is done they will happen. I'm just glad the suspect was caught alive