Hmmmm, I wonder how often mass shootings occur in other countries that have different gun laws. Hmmmm... 🤔 but it couldn't be the reason, right? After all, guns,  objects designed to kill someone the most effectively possible, couldn't be the reason why people die from them, they're used to save people obviously... 🤔

 

It's sad for the people dead there, but every time I see news like that from the US, I don't even care about it anymore. I'm just taking bets on how many more people will need to be killed before people eventually do something. 

28 minutes ago, Hystery said:

Hmmmm, I wonder how often mass shootings occur in other countries that have different gun laws. Hmmmm... 🤔 but it couldn't be the reason, right? After all, guns,  objects designed to kill someone the most effectively possible, couldn't be the reason why people die from them, they're used to save people obviously... 🤔

 

It's sad for the people dead there, but every time I see news like that from the US, I don't even care about it anymore. I'm just taking bets on how many more people will need to be killed before people eventually do something. 

France has had its fair share of mass shootings. The worst mass shooting in modern history happened in France. - 2015 attacks. 128 people died because of shootings. 89 were killed in a mass shooting at the Bataclan. Last december a policeman killed three people and then himself. There was a school shooting/grenade attack at a school in  France in March, fortunately no one was killed.

 

The point is, is that the USA is a massive country and every state is so different what works in NY might not work in another state. We need mental health care!

10 minutes ago, qwertyK said:

France has had its fair share of mass shootings. The worst mass shooting in modern history happened in France. - 2015 attacks. 128 people died because of shootings. 89 were killed in a mass shooting at the Bataclan. Last december a policeman killed three people and then himself. There was a school shooting/grenade attack at a school in  France in March, fortunately no one was killed.

 

The point is, is that the USA is a massive country and every state is so different what works in NY might not work in another state. We need mental health care!

 

You're comparing terrorist attacks and mass shootings. Entirely different matters. Wanna talk about actual mass shootings? Since the beginning of 2018, 6 in the US, 0 in France. If you want more, you can go back for every single years before this one and you'll notice the same thing.

 

Size of the country does not matter. Guns are meant to kill people, and as long as people don't realize that, those shootings will continue to occur. And I'll be sitting there watching and facepalming.

4 minutes ago, Hystery said:

 

You're comparing terrorist attacks and mass shootings. Entirely different matters. Wanna talk about actual mass shootings? Since the beginning of 2018, 6 in the US, 0 in France. If you want more, you can go back for every single years before this one and you'll notice the same thing.

 

Size of the country does not matter. Guns are meant to kill people, and as long as people don't realize that, those shootings will continue to occur. And I'll be sitting there watching and facepalming.

No one was calling for gun control after Paris. No one said ban guns. Everyone blamed terrorism. Because why not? Because terrorism was what motivated them. Just like how MENTAL HEALTH problems cause mass shootings. If you rounded up all the mass shootings or shooting incidents in the entirety of Europe it would be a fairer comparison. Even in the UK we nearly had a school shooting this year. Only because the boy called 999 at the last minuet as he was loading his shotgun, another two arrested for planning to bomb and stab people at their school. We need to have watchlists for these people just like we do for terrorists. Just make sure not every person with mental health issues is stigmatised.

6 minutes ago, qwertyK said:

No one was calling for gun control after Paris. No one said ban guns. Everyone blamed terrorism. Because why not? Because terrorism was what motivated them. Just like how MENTAL HEALTH problems cause mass shootings. If you rounded up all the mass shootings or shooting incidents in the entirety of Europe it would be a fairer comparison. Even in the UK we nearly had a school shooting this year. Only because the boy called 999 at the last minuet as he was loading his shotgun, another two arrested for planning to bomb and stab people at their school. We need to have watchlists for these people just like we do for terrorists. Just make sure not every person with mental health issues is stigmatised.

 

No one was calling for gun control or for banning guns because that's already a thing. To own a gun here you have to go through very tidious paperwork, with very thorough background check (both medical, criminal and administrative), and if you manage to get a gun ownership license, it still is strictly forbidden to carry your gun anywhere else than within your home or at the gun range. And every gun you own that is more than just a handgun -has- to be registered at the town hall every year, or they're confiscated. Only law enforcement is allowed to have guns in the streets.

 

You can look at the issue from every angle, it all comes down to guns. Guns are tools made to kill people. That's all they're meant to do. You don't throw a gun at someone drowning, it won't save him. You don't throw a gun at someone in cardiac arrest, that won't save him. Guns don't save lives, they take them, because that's what they were designed to do. From that point, as long as you give people the ability to kill people by providing the tools for that, the issue will never be solved. Mental health issue or not.

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by Hystery

Just now, Hystery said:

 

No one was calling for gun control or for banning guns because that's already a thing. To own a gun here you have to go through very tidious paperwork, with very thorough background check (both medical, criminal and administrative), and if you manage to get a gun ownership license, it still is strictly forbidden to carry your gun anywhere else than within your home or at the gun range. Only law enforcement is allowed to have guns in the streets.

 

You can look at the issue from every angle, it all comes down to guns. Guns are tools made to kill people. That's all they're meant to do. You don't throw a gun at someone drowning, it won't save him. You don't throw a gun at someone in cardiac arrest, that won't save him. Guns don't save lives, they take them, because that's what they were designed to do. From that point, as long as you give people the ability to kill people by providing the tools for that, the issue will never be solved. Mental health issue or not.

France still has far more relaxed gun laws in the UK. It's close to impossible to own an AR-15 equivelant here unless you're willing to put up with piles of paperwork. Yes guns are made to kill people. But America has a totally different culture, and that's why you can't really compare it to other countries. I respect the 2nd amendment but honestly its out of date. There were no assault rifles when it was written or semi auto handguns. 

 

It also raises the question of how someone expelled from school managed to get back in. Before we ban AR-15s or whatever, let's actually make our schools safer by introducing metal detectors and other measures. How he managed to sneak an AR-15 into school is quite surprising TBH. 

4 hours ago, Hystery said:

 

You're comparing terrorist attacks and mass shootings. Entirely different matters. Wanna talk about actual mass shootings? Since the beginning of 2018, 6 in the US, 0 in France. If you want more, you can go back for every single years before this one and you'll notice the same thing.

 

Size of the country does not matter. Guns are meant to kill people, and as long as people don't realize that, those shootings will continue to occur. And I'll be sitting there watching and facepalming.

It’s funny because you continue to say the same thing each time a topic like this is created, and the facts literally say otherwise. A lot of the arguments that you continue to bring up have already been proven to be fallacies, a lot of them logical fallacies. While you continue to face palm about an issue with no simple or easy solution, I’ll continue to face palm as a minority of Americans along with people overseas continue to make statements containing completely unviable suggestions.

3 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

It’s funny because you continue to say the same thing each time a topic like this is created, and the facts literally say otherwise. A lot of the arguments that you continue to bring up have already been proven to be fallacies, a lot of them logical fallacies. While you continue to face palm about an issue with no simple or easy solution, I’ll continue to face palm as a minority of Americans along with people overseas continue to make statements containing completely unviable suggestions.

 

I keep saying the same thing just like you keep the same thing. I've my facts (just have to look out my window to see that not having guns means less shooting and no matter the location it will be the same), you've your facts that apparently say american people would be too damn dumb to let go of their guns and prefer to flail their arms in the air screaming "MUH ROIGHTS, MUH GUNZ" like a magic incantation hoping it'll change anything. Each one their own.

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by Hystery

4 hours ago, qwertyK said:

France still has far more relaxed gun laws in the UK. It's close to impossible to own an AR-15 equivelant here unless you're willing to put up with piles of paperwork. Yes guns are made to kill people. But America has a totally different culture, and that's why you can't really compare it to other countries. I respect the 2nd amendment but honestly its out of date. There were no assault rifles when it was written or semi auto handguns. 

 

It also raises the question of how someone expelled from school managed to get back in. Before we ban AR-15s or whatever, let's actually make our schools safer by introducing metal detectors and other measures. How he managed to sneak an AR-15 into school is quite surprising TBH. 

I agree with you, but I think it’s safe to say that the founding fathers weren’t stupid. They had the intelligence to be able to recognize the fact that, with time, technology would develop. They knew that weaponry would also develop, which I’m sure is why they didn’t specifically mention muskets with the 2nd Amendment. If the government can have the latest weaponry, the citizens (to an extent) should also be able to have some of the same weaponry. What’s the purpose of the 2nd Amendment if the government has assault rifles and we have blunderbusses?

1 minute ago, Hystery said:

 

I keep saying the same thing just like you keep the same thing. I've my facts (just have to look out my window to see that not having guns means less shooting and no matter the location it will be the same), you've your facts that apparently say american people would be too damn dumb to let go of their guns and prefer to flail their arms in the air screaming "MUH ROIGHTS, MUH GUNZ" like a magic incantation hoping it'll change anything. Each one their own.

Looking out the window isn’t based on fact but one individual perspective. Americans overwhelmingly realize that doing what y’all did in France isn’t the logical solution here. Like I’ve said previously, a minority of Americans want an outright ban, but a vast majority agree to more “common sense” laws. No need to get into the ad-hominem man. We just know how our own country works better than others, and we actually value our Constitution and liberties. 

I'm pretty sure that looking out my window and not seeing any shooting in schools happening is pretty hard fact and not individual perspective. It's as if I was saying "Sun is rising" and you replied "That's individual perspective". No, it's not, it's just fact. Also, I never said outright ban. We don't have that here either.

 

As for the "What’s the purpose of the 2nd Amendment if the government has assault rifles and we have blunderbusses?", I'll reply by "What's the purpose of the 2nd Amendment if the government has freakin' tanks and choppers and you got your glock or AR-15". If a government wanted to take over, they would, and it's not the random dude with his handgun or hunting rifle that would stop a whole batallion of trained soldiers with the lines of tanks and armored vehicles coming with it.

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by Hystery

1 hour ago, Hystery said:

I'm pretty sure that looking out my window and not seeing any shooting in schools happening is pretty hard fact and not individual perspective. It's as if I was saying "Sun is rising" and you replied "That's individual perspective". No, it's not, it's just fact. Also, I never said outright ban. We don't have that here either.

 

As for the "What’s the purpose of the 2nd Amendment if the government has assault rifles and we have blunderbusses?", I'll reply by "What's the purpose of the 2nd Amendment if the government has freakin' tanks and choppers and you got your glock or AR-15". If a government wanted to take over, they would, and it's not the random dude with his handgun or hunting rifle that would stop a whole batallion of trained soldiers with the lines of tanks and armored vehicles coming with it.

You got it all twisted my man. You’ve got it twisted like a vanilla and chocolate swirl ice cream machine. Twisted like the way Mars Inc. claims the caramel is on their Twix chocolate candy. 

 

We can all look at the sky and see that the sun is rising. And even if we can’t see it rising, there’s an overwhelming level of scientific evidence that shows that the sun rises and sets. My point is that just because you look out your window and see something doesn’t necessarily make it factual or true, or imply that it could be that way everywhere across the world. You may not have an outright ban in the literal sense, but realistically speaking, guns are practically banned there. 

 

A fighting chance is better than no chance. Millions of armed Americans that know how to use their weapons versus a tyrannical government. Obviously the government is going to have the upper hand, but then we get into the whole American Revolutionary War thing and how that worked out for the tyrannical government. I also guarantee you that Americans wouldn’t march down our own neighborhoods and take away our own rights and oppress our own families and people. The government would have to use some sort of force, and I’m sure a majority within all potential forces would agree that they wouldn’t oblige. We, US Soldiers, take an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. If the government is our domestic threat, then it’s our duty to bring it down, which is why the 2nd Amendment is there.  

 

I’d also like to remind you that a vast majority of American law enforcement believe that more gun owners will reduce shootings against Police.... who’d a thought. 

 

I would highly suggest you refresh on American history, friend. 

Edited February 15, 20188 yr by TheDivineHustle

Nah, ain't twisted. The only thing I hear is "It wouldn't work because 'murica isn't the same". How can you know if you don't even try? That's how it works, you try things, if they work that's good, if they don't work then you revert back to how it was before. But hey, better cling to guns and not change a single thing, surely issues will be solved by themselves through some dark magic.

 

Also, if you say that americans wouldn't march down their own neighborhoods, then you've nothing to fear from a government, since no one would follow it, so it invalids your 2nd Amendment altogether. Matter of logic.

1 hour ago, Hystery said:

Nah, ain't twisted. The only thing I hear is "It wouldn't work because 'murica isn't the same". How can you know if you don't even try? That's how it works, you try things, if they work that's good, if they don't work then you revert back to how it was before. But hey, better cling to guns and not change a single thing, surely issues will be solved by themselves through some dark magic.

 

Also, if you say that americans wouldn't march down their own neighborhoods, then you've nothing to fear from a government, since no one would follow it, so it invalids your 2nd Amendment altogether. Matter of logic.

What "works" is that nearly every single time one of these shooters is confronted by someone with a gun, they give up or kill themselves.

 

The problem with your whole "try it out" theory is that it was tried out. It was tried out with the Assault Weapons Ban of 94-04, and it had no discernible effect. Lets say we try something along the lines of turning all guns in, I doubt that the 2nd amendment would be restored, regardless if the ban works or not.

 

The 2nd amendment is part of multiple contingency plans the founding fathers put in place. Some of those include the trust in the military to put the people before the government, the freedom of speech to speak out against the government in order to prevent a tyrannical government from arising, and finally the 2nd amendment as a last resort.

6 hours ago, Hystery said:

You can look at the issue from every angle, it all comes down to guns. Guns are tools made to kill people. That's all they're meant to do. You don't throw a gun at someone drowning, it won't save him. You don't throw a gun at someone in cardiac arrest, that won't save him. Guns don't save lives, they take them, because that's what they were designed to do. From that point, as long as you give people the ability to kill people by providing the tools for that, the issue will never be solved. Mental health issue or not.

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.  Many people say "guns are for protection".  How do you think guns will protect you? By shooting and killing another human being.  What good do guns actually do?  Criminals wouldn't have guns, and cops wouldn't need them either.

3 minutes ago, Kallus said:

 

I don't understand why this is so hard for people to understand.  Many people say "guns are for protection".  How do you think guns will protect you? By shooting and killing another human being.  What good do guns actually do?  Criminals wouldn't have guns, and cops wouldn't need them either.

Yes that’s absolutely correct. If a criminal threatens me or my family, I’m taking their life, because screw them and they don’t deserve to be on this planet with the rest of us that have some sense. 

10 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Yes that’s absolutely correct. If a criminal threatens me or my family, I’m taking their life, because screw them and they don’t deserve to be on this planet with the rest of us that have some sense. 

 

Unfortunately that's not up to you to decide that. The judiciary system exists for a reason.

23 minutes ago, Hystery said:

 

Unfortunately that's not up to you to decide that. The judiciary system exists for a reason.

It should be up to me to decide how I defend my family. And I will my friend. 

35 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Yes that’s absolutely correct. If a criminal threatens me or my family, I’m taking their life, because screw them and they don’t deserve to be on this planet with the rest of us that have some sense. 

 

You don't necessarily understand what threaten means.  You can threaten someone from afar, y'know.  Are you going to kill someone who calls your wife and threatens her?  'Cause the whole "self defense"/"protecting my family" defense wouldn't hold up at all.

 

It's so easy for people sitting in their chair to say "YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'D KILL THEM IF THEY THREATENED ME!", but the reality of the situation is, it's not as easy to kill someone as you're making it out to be.  It might be easy for criminals who have grown up around them, but for the average Joe like you and many others?  Your nerves will be on fire, you'll be sweating, shaking, and your finger will be twitching.  The moments before will almost be as bad as after the fact.  Once you take that life, even if for good intentions, you will spend the rest of your life wracked in guilt, haunted by the act of taking a life.  Folks can try to be hard asses and say it won't happen to them, but it will.  I'm willing to bet a good amount of money that even if we armed everyone, only a small percentage would actually be able to pull the trigger and shoot.

29 minutes ago, Kallus said:

 

You don't necessarily understand what threaten means.  You can threaten someone from afar, y'know.  Are you going to kill someone who calls your wife and threatens her?  'Cause the whole "self defense"/"protecting my family" defense wouldn't hold up at all.

 

It's so easy for people sitting in their chair to say "YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I'D KILL THEM IF THEY THREATENED ME!", but the reality of the situation is, it's not as easy to kill someone as you're making it out to be.  It might be easy for criminals who have grown up around them, but for the average Joe like you and many others?  Your nerves will be on fire, you'll be sweating, shaking, and your finger will be twitching.  The moments before will almost be as bad as after the fact.  Once you take that life, even if for good intentions, you will spend the rest of your life wracked in guilt, haunted by the act of taking a life.  Folks can try to be hard asses and say it won't happen to them, but it will.  I'm willing to bet a good amount of money that even if we armed everyone, only a small percentage would actually be able to pull the trigger and shoot.

If you’re in my home, you’re a threat. If you’re a threat, I’m taking your life and I won’t think twice about it. You’re right, taking a life may have a series of (negative) effects on someone, but that’s not the case for me. I’m not killing someone that’s innocent, I’m killing someone that had intentions to harm me and my family. I wouldn’t hesitate to pull the trigger to save my own life or a loved ones life. And I guarantee you that most Americans feel the same on that. I’m also not an average Joe. As cheesy as it sounds, I’m a soldier. I don’t have the same mindset as an average Joe that can’t be deployed to Afghanistan within the next few weeks if needed. 

And obviously a soldier has a mind of steel. All those veterans coming back from war with PTSD must be wussies then.