Ford lost the CHP contract, they're switching over to Chargers. I wonder why?

http://www.wheels.ca/news/chp-orders-chargers/

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/california-highway-patrol-orders-dodge-charger-pursuit-police-sedans-for-its-statewide-fleet-300301292.html

 

Additionally, other California agencies will be able to "piggy back" the contract and be able to buy their own Chargers with the same specifications and price as the CHP. I wonder if the LAPD or LASD are going to do that... 

Edited August 5, 20169 yr by Original Light

10 hours ago, nic227 said:

Nope, fleet vehicles and police interceptors are two different things. Fleet vehicles are regular civilian cars that get sold to companies to use for their company fleets. Whereas police interceptors are a "kind of" fleet vehicle as they only get sold to emergency services, not to taxi or limo services, or any other private companies, other than third party emergency vehicle equipment manufacturers, like Whelen, Code3, etc. Police vehicles have different suspensions, altered shifting points, often times an overdrive option, rims that can take a curb impact at a certain speed, and other emergency service oriented things. Adding another 5k to a car isn't as simple as it sounds. If a department orders 10 cars for 35k each, they spend 350k, however if they buy them for 40k each, that makes 400k. Meaning the department could order almost 2 additional cars if they went the cheaper route, or pay for equipment for the other cars.

I summarized more or less all of that earlier, but I think you're agreeing with me without agreeing with me. They are fleet vehicles, they just happen to be cars sold with the optional police package on them (better throttle response, stiffer suspension, stripper out interior etc.). That's splitting hairs.

Regarding the cost of each car vs. how many a department might buy, I think we can all do the math, friend. The thing is the money spent on equipment for the cars is going to be spent regardless of whether the vehicle is a Ford Taurus or a Lamborghini. The cost of the vehicle itself is irrelevant when focusing on my original point/question I posed above.

Why can't Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge sell law enforcement agencies a four door car with good performance and a functional body shape for $35,000 to $40,000? I'm not asking the police to spend more. I'm asking Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge to charge less for their s*** cars, or start delivering the goods at their current asking price. If people would like another example of a manufacturer that doesn't screw people around for that kind of money; have a look at the BMW 3 series. You can get a four door model like the 335i/340i for around $34,000 to $38,000 if you're a civilian. New models produce about 320BHP from a turbocharged 6-cylinder engine, with 0-60 times of about 4.5 seconds and a top speed of around 140mph. These cars are also extremely well equipped, quiet and comfortable. Make whatever arguements you will about ongoing maintainence costs, but once again; the point I'm making is that BMW sells vehicles at the $35,000-$40,000 price point that are believed to be as good as they can be before rolling off the assembly line, and they outperform and outequip everything Ford, Chevrolet and Dodge have given law enforcement agencies as fleet cars to date.

Why? Why can't Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet step up?

 

 

10 hours ago, Original Light said:

Ford lost the CHP contract, they're switching over to Chargers. I wonder why?

http://www.wheels.ca/news/chp-orders-chargers/

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/california-highway-patrol-orders-dodge-charger-pursuit-police-sedans-for-its-statewide-fleet-300301292.html

 

Additionally, other California agencies will be able to "piggy back" the contract and be able to buy their own Chargers with the same specifications and price as the CHP. I wonder if the LAPD or LASD are going to do that... 

A strong possibility considering the downsides of the Ford Taurus and Explorer "Interceptors". I'd actually love to see them embrace the Tesla they were given and have some kind of police specific variant of that developed for mass sales.



You'll note however, that almost all of the Dodge Chargers ordered were the V6 ones due to fuel consumption. The V8 ones are being sent to academies for training (way to give your cadets a false sense of confidence in the vehicle they drive). My bulky Chevrolet SUV I owned outperforms that models 0-60 time by half a second. At least the Charger has a bigger trunk *face palm*. 
 

Edited August 6, 20169 yr by unr3al

Well if people know it or not I am a big fan of all expeditions, one of my favorite cars. So it feels like i should come to the defence of it.

 

Spoiler

 

Though it seems like not even unmarked units use those rims xD

19 hours ago, LCPD_OFFICER said:

Well if people know it or not I am a big fan of all expeditions, one of my favorite cars. So it feels like i should come to the defence of it.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Though it seems like not even unmarked units use those rims xD

The new Expedition is okay. The 0-60 times were terrible until the newest generation came out, especially for a vehicle with that big of an engine. (0-60 in 9 seconds. My beard grows faster in 9 seconds. They should have been able to get more than 300 horsepower out of a 5.4 liter V8, or at least do something with the 300 they got considering how big and heavy that vehicle is.)

The newest ones are quicker (6.5 seconds), and come with 365 horsepower from a 3.5 liter V6. My god, Ford actually made an efficient engine! Rejoice! Now if only they can start putting them in more of their vehicles and stop charging a small fortune for each one. It's still too big and heavy however, considering that the Ford "Explorer" exists, meaning there's no need for the Expedition in a police fleet. They aren't running down to Home Depot to shove lumber or potted plants in the back or carry a bunch of school children and two dogs to soccer practice in it. I'll agree that the Expedition certainly looks better than the "Explorer" does, and was clearly built to be an SUV during its inception, and the fact that the "Explorers" new and "improved" 3.7L V6 engine  actually puts out 63 less horsepower than the newest EcoBoosts' in the civilian "Explorers" and Expeditions is pathetic and certainly elevates its standing in the SUV market. I'd rather drive a Chevrolet Tahoe though due to Chevrolet's tendency to use softer suspensions making the ride more tolerable off-road and on road. The previous generation fleet model Explorers and Expeditions were extremely stiff. They shatter your spine if you go over a pothole.

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by unr3al

I really like the F-150

Edited August 7, 20169 yr by OfficerWalters

365 HP is an awful lot to ask out of six cylinders, which is why I'm concerned about its longevity. Additionally, it's been found that the 5.4 L V8 that it "replaced" actually gets better fuel economy while towing, since it doesn't have to work as hard.

 

 

1 hour ago, Original Light said:

365 HP is an awful lot to ask out of six cylinders, which is why I'm concerned about its longevity. Additionally, it's been found that the 5.4 L V8 that it "replaced" actually gets better fuel economy while towing, since it doesn't have to work as hard.

I agree, I don't think they should be using 6 cylinder engines at all. They should work on a more efficient V8, like the one a few companies use where the vehicle can shut off two cylinders to conserve fuel, and then give you all 8 when performance is needed. Take the variable displacement idea from Cadillac, and the stop/start idea from Toyota and roll them into a fair sized V8.

17 minutes ago, unr3al said:

I agree, I don't think they should be using 6 cylinder engines at all. They should work on a more efficient V8, like the one a few companies use where the vehicle can shut off two cylinders to conserve fuel, and then give you all 8 when performance is needed. Take the variable displacement idea from Cadillac, and the stop/start idea from Toyota and roll them into a fair sized V8.

Yep, I agree. The only thing is EPA and their CAFE regulations are getting tighter and tighter, and I think Ford is giving themselves an advantage by phasing out the V8 engine sooner than its competitors (unlike Fiat Chrysler, which still heavily relies on V8 engines in many of their vehicles). By giving more vehicles 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines, they raise their entire fleet fuel economy average, thus earning EPA credits. Therefore, allowing them to keep the big inefficient V8's we all know and love in a few select vehicles (Mustang, F-150, and Super Duty trucks).

Fiat Chrysler, on the other hand, is having to buy these EPA credits rather than earning them, since their fleet fuel economy is lower in comparison to Ford. It's not the best thing for a company, and investors certainly don't like it. 

Edited August 8, 20169 yr by Original Light

I see you folks talking about V6, V8, but there's something I can't understand. Why do we always have to have bigger? Always bigger bigger bigger, be it cars, car inside space, car trunk, car engine. Most european police cars are civilian cars you can find everywhere, with a radio slammed in and a lightbar on the roof, and they seem to do their job just fine, why do we have to make things big all the time? :(

4 hours ago, ScarletDraconis said:

I see you folks talking about V6, V8, but there's something I can't understand. Why do we always have to have bigger? Always bigger bigger bigger, be it cars, car inside space, car trunk, car engine. Most european police cars are civilian cars you can find everywhere, with a radio slammed in and a lightbar on the roof, and they seem to do their job just fine, why do we have to make things big all the time? :(

Firstly because you can't cram a ton of horsepower into a small engine. And most European countries have police vehicles that have even more unspeakable 0-60 times, such as the British standard Vauxhall Astra, ranging from 8 seconds in the gasoline powered version to up to 13 seconds in the diesel powered ones which are very common, but that's tolerable over there because a lot of the civilian vehicles are terribly slow also. Secondly, you don't have the same type of crime in Europe on such a large scale as you do in the United States. You have different civilian vehicles to contend with, different roadways, different pursuit policies, different gear to carry, different laws and punishments for crimes, different incarceration rate, different culture, etc.

The Untied States is unique from Europe. We share some common values and principles but keeping the peace in each region of the world can be a very different job.

Edited August 9, 20169 yr by unr3al

Yeah a lot of European police cars are pathetic when it comes to pursuits. They have awful top speeds and horrible acceleration, but that's why some British departments (I believe Essex?) have "interceptor" units supplied with supped up Subaru Imprezas and Mitsubishi Lancers.

Over here we don't have cages in our cars because criminals deemed as a risk to officers/troublesome or abusive are just thrown handcuffed into the back of a paddy wagon, which is seriously not somewhere you want to end up.

 

Edited August 9, 20169 yr by Illusionyary

6 hours ago, Illusionyary said:

Yeah a lot of European police cars are pathetic when it comes to pursuits. They have awful top speeds and horrible acceleration, but that's why some British departments (I believe Essex?) have "interceptor" units supplied with supped up Subaru Imprezas and Mitsubishi Lancers.

Over here we don't have cages in our cars because criminals deemed as a risk to officers/troublesome or abusive are just thrown handcuffed into the back of a paddy wagon, which is seriously not somewhere you want to end up.

 

Well the german police uses faster cars than the US police. But not everywhere in Germany.

We use the VF Commodore and FGX Falcon over here (in Victoria, Australia anyway) as our patrol cars. What's stopping Chevrolet from turning the SS into an Interceptor? They've proven their reliability time and time again here in Australia so I'm sure it can pull it's weight over there.

On August 9, 2016 at 5:35 AM, TheDmac said:

We use the VF Commodore and FGX Falcon over here (in Victoria, Australia anyway) as our patrol cars. What's stopping Chevrolet from turning the SS into an Interceptor? They've proven their reliability time and time again here in Australia so I'm sure it can pull it's weight over there.

They already did... it's called the Chevrolet Caprice PPV. In fact, the SS is pretty much the same car except it's geared more towards performance and luxury. The Caprice PPV was materialized far before the SS btw.

^ Correct.
The Caprice PPV came to the US in 2011.  Its offered with a 3.6L V6 or you can upgrade to the 6.0L V8 L77 free of charge.

Also has Ford fixed the issue with their FPIs and FPIUs requiring the rear spare tire to have their crash rating yet?

The only reason Fords sell well is because they're cheap, and there's a reason they're cheap.

45 minutes ago, OperatorOperating said:

^ Correct.
The Caprice PPV came to the US in 2011.  Its offered with a 3.6L V6 or you can upgrade to the 6.0L V8 L77 free of charge.

Also has Ford fixed the issue with their FPIs and FPIUs requiring the rear spare tire to have their crash rating yet?

The only reason Fords sell well is because they're cheap, and there's a reason they're cheap.

CVPI's have low quality interiors, but I don't think you can argue against their simplicity and longevity. The Explorers probably aren't the same in terms of durability. Only time will tell.

I love the CVPIs, I have one myself and I expect to keep it for a long time.  They were designed to last and are cheap to repair.

I'm an emergency vehicle upfitter and work for a Chevrolet dealer in the fleet department.  I've asked quite a lot of guys from departments with Explorers and these are the most common things I hear

"They're really tight and small"
"We've had longevity issues, rear diffs have gone after only 20k miles"
"This is the only car I've ever felt I need to wear my seatbelt in, I don't feel safe in it at all"

I may work for GM/Chevy but I cannot deny how great the CVPIs were as a police car.  Even then a lot of guys said they preferred the old school Caprice over the original CVPIs.

7 hours ago, Original Light said:

They already did... it's called the Chevrolet Caprice PPV. In fact, the SS is pretty much the same car except it's geared more towards performance and luxury. The Caprice PPV was materialized far before the SS btw.

Just an FYI, the Commodore is not a Caprice. The Caprice is the luxury businessman equivalent of the Commodore, while the Commodore is geared towards performance and sportiness. The Caprice is classed as "premier" car here and as such our police departments field Commodores instead.

This is the VF.

This is a Caprice.

16 hours ago, Illusionyary said:

Just an FYI, the Commodore is not a Caprice. The Caprice is the luxury businessman equivalent of the Commodore, while the Commodore is geared towards performance and sportiness. The Caprice is classed as "premier" car here and as such our police departments field Commodores instead.

This is the VF.

 

This is a Caprice.

[snip]

Isn't it the same platform/frame? 

24 minutes ago, Original Light said:

Isn't it the same platform/frame? 

I'm pretty sure the Caprice is longer than the Commodore, so I don't believe they do. I could be completely wrong though.