Sunday at 22:00 h a suicide bomber blows himself up next to an entrance to a concert with 2,500 guests.

He wanted to get inside the festival area but he changed his plan after he noticed the security check at the entrance.

Then he decided to pull the trigger near a pub.

So, this is the first officical terrorist attack in my homeland!

Other attacks will come in the near future!

Congratulations go straight to our politicians.

16 minutes ago, Schecter004 said:

So, this is the first officical terrorist attack in my homeland!

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Germany

Actual list starts in 1970, with mentions of other stuff happening even before the 2nd world war in the political mess that ensued after the end of the first world war.

1 minute ago, SuperStumpje said:

Nope.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_Germany

Actual list starts in 1970, with mentions of other stuff happening even before the 2nd world war in the political mess that ensued after the end of the first world war.

Are you joking? This is not the topic to be a smart alleck!

8 minutes ago, Schecter004 said:

Are you joking? This is not the topic to be a smart alleck!

I'm not joking, I'm merely pointing out an error in your post.

 

As for the people not aware of what happened but would like to know, here's a BBC article on it http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758

23 hours ago, Schecter004 said:

(...)
Congratulations go straight to our politicians.

What can they do about it? Terrorism is from all times, it's nothing new. Politicians can do nothing against it. (not even by building a wall as some may think...)

Btw, am I the only one who acctually can understand the terrorists? I mean, the NATO bombs in the terrorist's home countries (where a lot of innocent people get killed by), so it is understandable that the terrorists think:

"You bomb us in our countries, we bomb you in your countries!" And don't say that the bombings by terrorists cost civllian lives, because the NATO bombings in the Middle-East do too. I suggest we just all stop bombing, INCLUDING the NATO in the Middle-East. Then the terrorists have a least no reason to attack us. But yeah, who am I?

If you're thinking I'm a supporter of terrorism, I'm not. I'm just saying that I can understand why the terrorist do such things.

23 minutes ago, ErikB26 said:

Then the terrorists have a least no reason to attack us.

They do, unfortunately. Good propaganda and radicalization help to give potential future terrorists a wrong worldview, which makes them think their deeds were good.

26 minutes ago, ErikB26 said:

I suggest we just all stop bombing, INCLUDING the NATO in the Middle-East.

It would be great if it was that easy, but it isn't. :(

59 minutes ago, ErikB26 said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Btw, am I the only one who acctually can understand the terrorists? I mean, the NATO bombs in the terrorist's home countries (where a lot of innocent people get killed by), so it is understandable that the terrorists think:

"You bomb us in our countries, we bomb you in your countries!" And don't say that the bombings by terrorists cost civllian lives, because the NATO bombings in the Middle-East do too. I suggest we just all stop bombing, INCLUDING the NATO in the Middle-East. Then the terrorists have a least no reason to attack us. But yeah, who am I?

If you're thinking I'm a supporter of terrorism, I'm not. I'm just saying that I can understand why the terrorist do such things.

 

Well if we want to go back to how this whole thing started, it is because they brought the war to us first (and by us I mean the United States). All throughout the mid-90s to 2000 we were not fighting any wars in the middle east. We had some soldiers stationed in some middle eastern countries but we were there because those countries allowed us to be there. There were some Muslims (like Bin Laden) who didn't think westerners should be in the middle east at all (even if those governments invited them to be there) and so they attacked us, most notably on 9/11. So if we want to point fingers lets remember that we didn't start this, we wouldn't be bombing their countries if they hadn't flown a couple of planes into our buildings and killed thousands of Americans.

13 minutes ago, l3ubba said:

Well if we want to go back to how this whole thing started, it is because they brought the war to us first (and by us I mean the United States). All throughout the mid-90s to 2000 we were not fighting any wars in the middle east. We had some soldiers stationed in some middle eastern countries but we were there because those countries allowed us to be there. There were some Muslims (like Bin Laden) who didn't think westerners should be in the middle east at all (even if those governments invited them to be there) and so they attacked us, most notably on 9/11. So if we want to point fingers lets remember that we didn't start this, we wouldn't be bombing their countries if they hadn't flown a couple of planes into our buildings and killed thousands of Americans.

Actually, I think Al-Qaeda's wave of attacks against the US (the 9/11 attacks being the biggest) was actually somewhat of a response (at least partially, probably some other stuff involved too) to the first US invasion of Iraq (first Gulf war)*, which was a response to Iraq invading US ally Kuwait, which was probably a response to something too. Basically, it goes back quite far to stuff seemingly unrelated.

Another large part of the issue is the belief some people have that everyone who doesn't follow their specific interpretation of their religion should die. Either way, simply stopping with bombing them won't do too much. 

 

Let's not get too far off topic though, this is a topic about a specific event in Germany, not the background and workings of global terrorism and extremism.

 

*We discussed the whole thing once during history class years ago, but I don't remember any specidic details anymore, sadly.

3 hours ago, SuperStumpje said:

I'm not joking, I'm merely pointing out an error in your post.

 

As for the people not aware of what happened but would like to know, here's a BBC article on it http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36880758

Of course we had terrorist attacks in the past. I was talking about the latest incidents. I thought this was clear. 

41 minutes ago, Schecter004 said:

Of course we had terrorist attacks in the past. I was talking about the latest incidents. I thought this was clear. 

I think we all realise what both you and SuperStumpje meant. That's not the topic of your post.

8 hours ago, ErikB26 said:

 

  Hide contents

Btw, am I the only one who acctually can understand the terrorists? I mean, the NATO bombs in the terrorist's home countries (where a lot of innocent people get killed by), so it is understandable that the terrorists think:

"You bomb us in our countries, we bomb you in your countries!" And don't say that the bombings by terrorists cost civllian lives, because the NATO bombings in the Middle-East do too. I suggest we just all stop bombing, INCLUDING the NATO in the Middle-East. Then the terrorists have a least no reason to attack us. But yeah, who am I?

If you're thinking I'm a supporter of terrorism, I'm not. I'm just saying that I can understand why the terrorist do such things.

 

You don't really understand these terrorists, otherwise you'd be working alongside them yourself.

The United States and the rest of NATO didn't just randomly start blowing crap up in the middle east for no good reason. Besides the now defunct I.R.A., only one group of people have been constantly hi-jacking planes, blowing buildings up and launching suicide attacks against allied countries on a consistent basis over the last 30-40 years. This goes back even before the first Gulf War, because Muslims and Israelis can't get along, so Palestinian terrorist groups feel the need to kill civilians to make a moot point about why they got screwed by having a bunch of barren, unused sand taken away from them. Countries that back Israel even from merely a moral or political standpoint come under attack. They don't actually have to fire any shots to attract the ire of middle easterners who hate Jews. Therefore the United States is guilty by association from the get-go. It also doesn't help that the countries we are locked in an ideological battle with (and it is an ideological one, whether the white house wants to admit that or not) include horrible human rights violations as part of their day to day life; women being forced to sleep in bags, having limbs cut off for thievery, children being crucified on the side of the road, throwing suspected homosexuals from rooftops, decapitating people who wish to leave the religion or take up a different faith, etc.

Killing innocent people in the 20th and 21st centuries attracts a lot of unwanted attention from the advanced civilizations of the western world (NATO) and any uneasy or difficult to classify allies we have in the east (Russia, former USSR countries). As a result of all of these human rights violations, genocides, threats of war against western countries and terrorist attacks; the U.S. kicked down some doors in the early 1990's and early 2000's. On that point, I'd also suggest that you don't weep too hard over some of the civilians who are caught in the crossfire. Iraq during the peak of the insurgency had a ton of people who decided to stay in hostile cities where they had been instructed to evacuate or risk being injured or killed.

Now I don't live in a concrete apartment equivalent to the size of a shed in the middle of a dust bowl, but if some military men told me that there would be some heavy fighting in the coming days and my family is in danger; I'd get the **** out. Take anything important to me and evacuate. It would be a massive blow psychologically and perhaps financially to lose access to my home, but myself and my family are more important. Lots of people in Iraq stayed where they were because they either didn't care, or they were sympathetic to the insurgency and are just as responsible for not only military casualties on foreign soil, but also the terrorist attacks on allied soil due to their showing of solidarity despite allied armies occupying their country.

Stopping bombing won't make hostilities magically end. As I've discussed in previous threads, these attacks are motivated by religion and it has become a war of faith and cultures that has been instigated by Islam. Christianity; being the major religion in the U.S. and the biggest around the world, had a horrible period of seemingly constant slaughter during the crusades era. Islam is going through that phase now, only it's during a period where nuclear weapons exist, and it is a documented goal, said on tape by Osama Bin Laden himself that getting nuclear weapons should be the goal of all Muslim people. Moreover, the Qu'ran clearly outlines plans for a day when the earth will literally cry out loud for the blood of the Jews, and that it will be the duty of all Muslim men to take up their swords and kill them. This can be read directly from their doctrine of faith. It is not a wacky interpretation.

As a result of all of those things I outlined above, simply "not bombing" them anymore isn't going to cut it. Hostilities won't stop until they've killed everyone and Islam is the sole religion of everyone remaining on the planet. As ISIS once said; they "love death more than you love life", so we need to treat the threat in the middle east as the real problem that it is and not try and shrug it off. These terrorist organizations need to be wiped out, and Muslims who have a good head on their shoulders will be able to speak out publicly about the flaws in Islam and help to reform or re-interpret the religion among people of this generation without the fear of being killed by said terrorist groups or even fellow Muslims.

Edited July 27, 20169 yr by unr3al

7 hours ago, SuperStumpje said:

Actually, I think Al-Qaeda's wave of attacks against the US (the 9/11 attacks being the biggest) was actually somewhat of a response (at least partially, probably some other stuff involved too) to the first US invasion of Iraq (first Gulf war)*, which was a response to Iraq invading US ally Kuwait, which was probably a response to something too. Basically, it goes back quite far to stuff seemingly unrelated.

Another large part of the issue is the belief some people have that everyone who doesn't follow their specific interpretation of their religion should die. Either way, simply stopping with bombing them won't do too much. 

 

Let's not get too far off topic though, this is a topic about a specific event in Germany, not the background and workings of global terrorism and extremism.

 

*We discussed the whole thing once during history class years ago, but I don't remember any specidic details anymore, sadly.

Actually the first Gulf War has little to do with it. I'm not going to go into a long history but it all stems from stuff that happened back in the 50s-60s and has been ongoing ever since. The most immediate reason Bin Laden had a problem with the U.S. is because he did not like that Saudia Arabia (his home country) was allowing the U.S. to station soldiers there. Like you said, this is a discussion for another thread. My point was that we didn't just start bombing them for no reason.

On 26-7-2016 at 8:49 PM, l3ubba said:

(...) who didn't think westerners should be in the middle east at all (...)

Indeed, they shouldn't be at all. The western countries want the people in the Middle East to live according to the Western norms. But they forget that Middle-Easterns and Westerns have different types of norms and values. I think we should just live and let live. The western countries want to much participation in the Middle-East (maybe cause there is oil??). The westerns want to live accordingly to the Bible, the Middle-Easterns accordingly to the Koran. There is nothing good or bad about those books, because everybody thinks different about that.

On 27-7-2016 at 4:34 AM, l3ubba said:

(...) My point was that we didn't just start bombing them for no reason.

And the terrorists also have their reasons to bomb us. If we just take away those reasons (interference wich each other countries)...

Live and let live.

6 hours ago, ErikB26 said:

Indeed, they shouldn't be at all. The western countries want the people in the Middle East to live according to the Western norms. But they forget that Middle-Easterns and Westerns have different types of norms and values. I think we should just live and let live. The western countries want to much participation in the Middle-East (maybe cause there is oil??). The westerns want to live accordingly to the Bible, the Middle-Easterns accordingly to the Koran. There is nothing good or bad about those books, because everybody thinks different about that.

So if a middle eastern country invites us to set up a base in their country we should turn it down? You do realize that Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, and all the other middle eastern countries invite us to stay there. There is not a single country in the entire world that we occupy. Every country we have a military base in we are there because that country allows us to be there. All of these countries want US bases there because it benefits them in some way (economically, militarily, etc). There might be portions of the population in those countries that don't want us there but that is between them and their government, not us.

Edited July 27, 20169 yr by l3ubba

16 hours ago, ErikB26 said:

Indeed, they shouldn't be at all. The western countries want the people in the Middle East to live according to the Western norms. But they forget that Middle-Easterns and Westerns have different types of norms and values. I think we should just live and let live. The western countries want to much participation in the Middle-East (maybe cause there is oil??). The westerns want to live accordingly to the Bible, the Middle-Easterns accordingly to the Koran. There is nothing good or bad about those books, because everybody thinks different about that.

And the terrorists also have their reasons to bomb us. If we just take away those reasons (interference wich each other countries)...

Live and let live.

So you think everybody should just turn a blind eye to a very large group of people who wish to commit genocides, kill innocent children, covert people to a religion under the threat of beheading and obtain a nuclear weapon for the purpose of eradicating people who will not follow their values?

Human rights should be rights for all humans, not just those who live in the Untied States, Canada, Europe and Australia. I'd also like to point out that people in western countries are becoming increasingly agnostic/atheist/secular. The countries in Europe that are doing the best economically and sociologically are the least religious by percentage, and the United States has reached a record number of "nones" under the category of religious affiliation in the most recent Gallop Poll issued. To say there is nothing bad about those books is to more or less pretend that you read them when you actually didn't, or to simply "forget" the terrible verses. The Old Testament is arguably the most horrible book ever written, but at least it's not used to tell people how to live their lives in a literal sense on a massive scale anymore. Those kind of people have been reduced to being involved in small cults (see the Westboro Baptists Church) or being lone wolves. The Qur'an still is, which is why all of these terror attacks and terrible human rights violations are still occurring today.

Edited July 28, 20169 yr by unr3al