This is a common expression used by people defending the actions of law enforcement in cases of police brutality. Every week, there is a new video or story of an unarmed person being killed or maimed by police that almost never face criminal charges. And every week, right wing media outlets and police enthusiasts circulate the phrase "A few bad apples". But yet, more often than not, they are also the same ones defending the actions of the officer or officers involved.

So, I present an honest question: What is your definition of a "bad apple", and how should cases like these be dealt with?

 

Its called rationalization, noone likes to have what they like or believe in proved wrong, so they try to defend to their views to protect their ideals. Like they say, "Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks." The difference is that some feel that arguing over it on some place like /r/news is a good idea, others prefer to keep their mouth shut and not get into a useless debate on the internet.

Is this about you actually wanting to know everyone's definition of a "bad apple" in general, or a clever way to bring up a debate through use of your heavily loaded question and extremely biased intro?

 

I'm betting the latter.

Edited May 2, 201510 yr by Pavelow

My definition of 'bad apple' would be an apple that has gone rotten - this works for both actual apples. and people.

These officers do frequently receive criminal charges, it's just the media forgets about the story after the months the case has undoubtedly spent in court, and subsequently the general population doesn't get told about it, and doesn't really care enough to carry on looking at the story on their own - despite what they claim when it's at the hight of publicity.

 

This is a common expression used by people defending the actions of law enforcement in cases of police brutality. Every week, there is a new video or story of an unarmed person being killed or maimed by police that almost never face criminal charges. And every week, right wing media outlets and police enthusiasts circulate the phrase "A few bad apples". But yet, more often than not, they are also the same ones defending the actions of the officer or officers involved.

So, I present an honest question: What is your definition of a "bad apple", and how should cases like these be dealt with?

 

​
There are thousands of arrests made every single day in the United States, so going by mathematics; yes, the term "a few bad apples" does apply, as irritating as it may seem to you. The only reason why things are in the news every day is because we live in the age of smart phones and other compact camera technology. Women can no longer be easily raped in the back of a patrol car due to microphones pinned to each police officers uniform, police officers can't get away with homicide as easily due to dash cams and bystanders legally being allowed to film them, and coming up on the horizon there will be a requirement for all officers to film themselves in first person. More video evidence = more exposure. Crimes by members of law enforcement have been committed since the inception of the very concept of law enforcement, and they will unfortunately continue long past the present day, simply because members of the law enforcement community are still humans. They have individual personalities, temperaments and motives for working that job. The Isaac Asimov style hard coded iRobot way of obeying the law to the letter is a pipe dream in the law enforcement community because of this. Despite months of training and a rigorous hiring process, you can't remove free will from the humans we hire for the job.

So what am I saying? Am I saying we have to sit here and suck on it? No, but the best solution isn't to take the law into our own hands, or whatever these rioters and police lynch squads think they're doing. We should instead be the shining example of the type of justice we demand the police enforce by using legal and bureaucratic means to fix the problem through better laws, better accountability, and better hiring and firing. Lead by example.

Edited May 2, 201510 yr by unr3al

It is a few bad apples. The media and the fact that the police are more exposed due to technology are making it look like all of them are corrupt. If a cop does wrong, he gets charged, and goes through the process. Sometimes he doesn't get charged, but the Chief or Commissioner fires him/her for misconduct, excessive force, etc. That's pretty much the end of their Law Enforcement career. They're most likely not getting hired ever again my an agency for fear of another lawsuit or story. So yea it is a few bad apple, there's hundreds of thousands of cops (almost a million I think) and the overwhelming majority are doing the right thing. Just imagine how bad it was in the 50s,60s,70s,80s and even the 90s, compared to now. It's getting better, not worst.

Also agree with everything unr3al said,

I will agree with what BJ said. There's hundreds of thousands of cops yet it make it seems like they're more 'bad apples' because the media mainly focuses on the officers who do wrong, not the officers who do good. 

It seems as though you take the actions of a few officers and call for consequences on all officers, based on all of these anti-police topics you've been creating. You say that the people should hold law enforcement accountable, but you aren't trying to hold them accountable. You're trying to look for any possible reason to throw an attack at the police, and that's the problem I have with these topics you're creating. You say that you work for some sort of media outlet, this is why people hate the media. You only report on the bad that police do and never the good. If all people hear about is police beating and shooting people, then the reputation and popularity of police is obviously going to decrease. Then you turn around and say, "Not all cops are bad". Well, you aren't helping anything by giving the police a crap name. It's not about being left wing or right wing as you claim, it's about the media, to put it in a blunt way, fucking up the reputation of police officers to make a quick buck. 

Sometimes he doesn't get charged, but the Chief or Commissioner fires him/her for misconduct, excessive force, etc. That's pretty much the end of their Law Enforcement career. They're most likely not getting hired ever again my an agency for fear of another lawsuit or story.

​http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-killed-tamir-rice-found-unfit-previous-police-job-n261111

http://www.wsj.com/articles/police-rarely-criminally-charged-for-on-duty-shootings-1416874955

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/

All of the facts point to the idea that police are not held to the same standard as the people they protect. I'm not sure where you're getting that idea from. 

​There are thousands of arrests made every single day in the United States, so going by mathematics; yes, the term "a few bad apples" does apply, as irritating as it may seem to you. The only reason why things are in the news every day is because we live in the age of smart phones and other compact camera technology. Women can no longer be easily raped in the back of a patrol car due to microphones pinned to each police officers uniform, police officers can't get away with homicide as easily due to dash cams and bystanders legally being allowed to film them, and coming up on the horizon there will be a requirement for all officers to film themselves in first person. More video evidence = more exposure. Crimes by members of law enforcement have been committed since the inception of the very concept of law enforcement, and they will unfortunately continue long past the present day, simply because members of the law enforcement community are still humans. They have individual personalities, temperaments and motives for working that job. The Isaac Asimov style hard coded iRobot way of obeying the law to the letter is a pipe dream in the law enforcement community because of this. Despite months of training and a rigorous hiring process, you can't remove free will from the humans we hire for the job.

So what am I saying? Am I saying we have to sit here and suck on it? No, but the best solution isn't to take the law into our own hands, or whatever these rioters and police lynch squads think they're doing. We should instead be the shining example of the type of justice we demand the police enforce by using legal and bureaucratic means to fix the problem through better laws, better accountability, and better hiring and firing. Lead by example.

​The idea of a few bad apples isn't irritating to me. Whats irritating is that people are dying that don't have to die. Cities are paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in police abuse settlements. People are being beaten up, body slammed, tased, and all the cop gets is a slap on the wrist. There is no excuse for that. 

You're on the right line of though. More abuse is being filmed, and yes cops are humans, but the system refuses to hold them to the same standard as other humans. The system doesn't pay attention to poor communities who are being abused day in and day out by police. The news doesn't pay attention to it either, until a CVS is lit on fire. I hope you understand that however horrible, the riots aren't coming out of nowhere. They're coming out of a history of violence and abuse.

We're going to keep seeing these riots and overwhelmingly peaceful protests until the system changes.

​The idea of a few bad apples isn't irritating to me. Whats irritating is that people are dying that don't have to die. Cities are paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in police abuse settlements. People are being beaten up, body slammed, tased, and all the cop gets is a slap on the wrist. There is no excuse for that. 

You're on the right line of though. More abuse is being filmed, and yes cops are humans, but the system refuses to hold them to the same standard as other humans. The system doesn't pay attention to poor communities who are being abused day in and day out by police. The news doesn't pay attention to it either, until a CVS is lit on fire. I hope you understand that however horrible, the riots aren't coming out of nowhere. They're coming out of a history of violence and abuse.

We're going to keep seeing these riots and overwhelmingly peaceful protests until the system changes.

​So then why did you create this topic if the idea of "a few bad apples" doesn't irritate you? I was proven correct in my earlier statement by saying that this topic was nothing more than an indirect way to get your point across. 

 

Why don't you give me stats and accurate facts about this rather than just spew biased ideas and loaded generalizations about the issue.

 

​So then why did you create this topic if the idea of "a few bad apples" doesn't irritate you? I was proven correct in my earlier statement by saying that this topic was nothing more than an indirect way to get your point across. 

 

Why don't you give me stats and accurate facts about this rather than just spew biased ideas and loaded generalizations about the issue.

I asked a simple question about an unpopular opinion, this isn't a trojan horse for my ideas. But ask and you shall receive.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-killed-tamir-rice-found-unfit-previous-police-job-n261111

http://www.wsj.com/articles/police-rarely-criminally-charged-for-on-duty-shootings-1416874955

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-ferguson-race-data

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/15/how-the-number-of-justified-police-homicides-has-changed-since-the-1990s/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/racial-disparity-police-shootings

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/youre-nine-times-likely-killed-police-officer-terrorist.html

 

The idea of a few bad apples isn't irritating to me. Whats irritating is that people are dying that don't have to die. Cities are paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in police abuse settlements. People are being beaten up, body slammed, tased, and all the cop gets is a slap on the wrist. There is no excuse for that. 

You're on the right line of though. More abuse is being filmed, and yes cops are humans, but the system refuses to hold them to the same standard as other humans. The system doesn't pay attention to poor communities who are being abused day in and day out by police. The news doesn't pay attention to it either, until a CVS is lit on fire. I hope you understand that however horrible, the riots aren't coming out of nowhere. They're coming out of a history of violence and abuse.

We're going to keep seeing these riots and overwhelmingly peaceful protests until the system changes.

​

No, the idea clearly is irritating to you, otherwise you wouldn't have rambled about it or made the topic. Innocent people are dying that don't have to? What a news flash. Welcome to earth, pal. That's been happening since the dawn of man and it's not going to stop any time soon. I don't know where you get the idea that you can generalize all police brutality punishments as "no justice dealt". You must not be reading the same news reports you link. That guy who died in the back of a police transport van caused 6 police officers who were indirectly involved with someone getting tossed around in a van in just such a way as to manipulate his spine in a way that would kill him to get charged with murder. Not manslaughter, murder. You can't get a higher punishment than that. I agree that it's difficult to ensure that the police police themselves, but if you want to make a change, go do something. You're preaching to the converted when you make topics here. Start a blog, go to protests, start picketing, start raising money. Don't waste our time telling us something extremist left wing blogs tell people every day via Facebook sharing.

Riots are coming out of nowhere. These crimes are an excuse to loot and ruin cities. Humans have done this over soccer games, never mind people getting killed by government representatives. The citizens of Baltimore have nobody but themselves to blame for their ruined economy. They had the choice to act like the upstanding men they claim to be, or to act like chimps. They decided to act like chimps and fling shit everywhere when they get temperamental.

Edited May 2, 201510 yr by unr3al

I asked a simple question about an unpopular opinion, this isn't a trojan horse for my ideas. But ask and you shall receive.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/officer-who-killed-tamir-rice-found-unfit-previous-police-job-n261111

http://www.wsj.com/articles/police-rarely-criminally-charged-for-on-duty-shootings-1416874955

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/allegations-of-police-misconduct-rarely-result-in-charges/

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-ferguson-race-data

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/14/police-killings-data/14060357/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/08/15/how-the-number-of-justified-police-homicides-has-changed-since-the-1990s/

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/racial-disparity-police-shootings

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/youre-nine-times-likely-killed-police-officer-terrorist.html

 

​None of those are proof that they're not being held accountable. So just because the liberal media doesn't agree with the results of an investigation means that they got off with no punishment and they're still guilty? That's not how it works.

In the case of Tamir Rice and Freddie Grey, the officers are clearly being held accountable. So you're point is invalid about cops not being held accountable. 

 

The riots, as stated above, are coming out of nowhere. You sound just like the members of the Bloods or Crips in Baltimore. They're claiming it's because they're being oppressed. Bullshit. You think the police are oppressing you because you've spent half your life in and out of prison. I don't see the White's and Hispanics rioting. 

If you want change, you're not helping at all. You're just fanning the flames and making it worse.

​None of those are proof that they're not being held accountable. So just because the liberal media doesn't agree with the results of an investigation means that they got off with no punishment and they're still guilty? That's not how it works.

In the case of Tamir Rice and Freddie Grey, the officers are clearly being held accountable. So you're point is invalid about cops not being held accountable. 

 

The riots, as stated above, are coming out of nowhere. You sound just like the members of the Bloods or Crips in Baltimore. They're claiming it's because they're being oppressed. Bullshit. You think the police are oppressing you because you've spent half your life in and out of prison. I don't see the White's and Hispanics rioting. 

If you want change, you're not helping at all. You're just fanning the flames and making it worse.

​How many Wall Street bankers went to prison for stealing millions? And how many people in Baltimore are being locked up for drug offenses?

If you think the Baltimore riots came out of no where, you're not paying attention. And did you thoroughly read through all of those articles and studies? There is some very interesting and relevant information in there. I think you're a big boy and you can find it yourself, but if you would like I can lay it all out for you.

 

That guy who died in the back of a police transport van caused 6 police officers who were indirectly involved with someone getting tossed around in a van in just such a way as to manipulate his spine in a way that would kill him to get charged with murder. Not manslaughter, murder.

When you're in police custody, they are responsible for your safety. You can't fasten your own seatbelt when you're in handcuffs. Intentionally leaving his seat-belt undone after he was complaining about injuries DIRECTLY lead to his death. And over-charging is a common practice among prosecutors to scare the defense into agreeing to a plea deal.

​

Riots are coming out of nowhere. These crimes are an excuse to loot and ruin cities. Humans have done this over soccer games, never mind people getting killed by government representatives. The citizens of Baltimore have nobody but themselves to blame for their ruined economy. They had the choice to act like the upstanding men they claim to be, or to act like chimps. They decided to act like chimps and fling shit everywhere when they get temperamental.

​I'm not one for ad hominems or anything of that sort, but this is so incredibly closed-minded and frankly stupid.

I'm fortunate enough to live in a very nice neighborhood, and I'm fortunate enough to have been given a good education, and I'm fortunate enough to have good opportunity in my life. At least I can appreciate that this is not the case for everyone. People living in this community do not have the same opportunity or education as I do, or as most other Americans do. They're powerless. We don't live in a country with even playing fields.You clearly have no capacity to understand or empathize with what that's like.

Posts merged - do not double post. -Staff

​How many Wall Street bankers went to prison for stealing millions? And how many people in Baltimore are being locked up for drug offenses?

If you think the Baltimore riots came out of no where, you're not paying attention. And did you thoroughly read through all of those articles and studies? There is some very interesting and relevant information in there. I think you're a big boy and you can find it yourself, but if you would like I can lay it all out for you.

​I'm not counter your list links, becasue they're all com sense answers.

But tell me Riley, or Ryan, whichever name you prefer lol. Did you here about the Bethel Police Officer indicted on rape and sexual battery charges? Or the two, now former corrupt officers pleading guilty to fraud charges? How about the Elburn police officer charged with preying on and sexually assaulting a 10 year old child over a 10 year span? Or the former correctional officer charged with her helping her convicted killer nephew escape? Did you hear about the Huntsville police officer indicted on federal charges from a police brutality case. I'll keep on going. What about the female texas officer charged with sexually assaulting assault a child? Or the Anderson police officer charged with assault, who has now been fired? One more I guess. Did you hear about the now former Pasco Police Officer charged with rape? And possibly murder charges from a 20 year old case? Probably not. This is 1 month of news stories. I'm guessing you, like most people, didn't even try to look. I'm not gonna leave you any links, a quick 5 second google searched did the trick. I think you're a big boy and can find it yourself.

​I'm not counter your list links, becasue they're all com sense answers.

But tell me Riley, or Ryan, whichever name you prefer lol. Did you here about the Bethel Police Officer indicted on rape and sexual battery charges? Or the two, now former corrupt officers pleading guilty to fraud charges? How about the Elburn police officer charged with preying on and sexually assaulting a 10 year old child over a 10 year span? Or the former correctional officer charged with her helping her convicted killer nephew escape? Did you hear about the Huntsville police officer indicted on federal charges from a police brutality case. I'll keep on going. What about the female texas officer charged with sexually assaulting assault a child? Or the Anderson police officer charged with assault, who has now been fired? One more I guess. Did you hear about the now former Pasco Police Officer charged with rape? And possibly murder charges from a 20 year old case? Probably not. This is 1 month of news stories. I'm guessing you, like most people, didn't even try to look. I'm not gonna leave you any links, a quick 5 second google searched did the trick. I think you're a big boy and can find it yourself.

​Why is it that you say that police brutality stories are a small fraction of daily police interactions, but yet these stories of police abuse that were prosecuted are someone indicative of a national trend? You can't have it both ways. 

​How many Wall Street bankers went to prison for stealing millions? And how many people in Baltimore are being locked up for drug offenses?

If you think the Baltimore riots came out of no where, you're not paying attention. And did you thoroughly read through all of those articles and studies? There is some very interesting and relevant information in there. I think you're a big boy and you can find it yourself, but if you would like I can lay it all out for you.

​Yeah I did. I love how one of your articles states that knowing the exact number of deaths related to police misconduct is hard to know because they keep it out of the public eye, and then later on they post 2 sites that supposedly have accurate stats on the number of deaths, that have no credibility whatsoever. 

 

Each year there are around 200 officers that are charged for various criminal acts and negligence. Tell me how police officers are rarely being held accountable.

​Why is it that you say that police brutality stories are a small fraction of daily police interactions, but yet these stories of police abuse that were prosecuted are someone indicative of a national trend? You can't have it both ways. 

​They are a national trend because the media is making them. I have never seen the news report on how millions of police officers went through their shifts while conducting themselves in a professional manner. Why is that? Because it isn't controversial. It doesn't garnish views. Meaning it isn't 'newsworthy'. 

​Why is it that you say that police brutality stories are a small fraction of daily police interactions, but yet these stories of police abuse that were prosecuted are someone indicative of a national trend? You can't have it both ways. 

​Did you forget the part about there being around 1 million LEOs, and roughly 200 million police interactions per year(bureau of justice). So yea you can have it both ways in this situation, cops are held accountable. Like McAwesome said, it's a national trened because the media is making it a trend. What get's the good headline: Everyday cops give people a warning instead of $150 ticket? Or, cop shoots and young unarmed black male, cops beat man almost to death

Edited May 2, 201510 yr by BlackJesus1