http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/31/new-u-s-stealth-jet-can-t-fire-its-gun-until-2019.html

 

yeah, those tax dollars are really at work aren't they.

Edited January 3, 201511 yr by Takao

And pelope wonder why the U.S. is in so much debt.

Well a friend of mine is saying they are doing flight testing again out in Arizona, so I don't think it will be that long before the aircraft is ready but more like when the orders are filled. She works in Marine aviation, and I guess the F-35 is going to replace the hornets and harriers, and honestly both airframes are way past due for retirement. We have put WAY too much time and effort into this aircraft for it to just be abandoned. You also have to realize that when the orders are filled, it will also take that long to train the aircrews in the aircraft and also the ground crew to maintain the aircraft, so its not a quick and easy process as people might think, because Marine Corps pilots and aircraft mechanics are both in school a minimum of a year learning all they can about the aircraft they are going to deal with. I am sure Air Force and Navy are the same way, because its not like you can train a pilot to fly something this state of the art over night , and the same goes for the personnel that maintain them. People fail to realize this

 

Edited January 3, 201511 yr by Jarhead1086

The F35 is the prime example of the inefficient, MIC (Military Industrial Complex) at work. 

 

I understand that the F35 is supposed to replace everything, and uses "advanced" stealth technology and such, but still. 

 

If the private sector wasn't responsible for the production and research of this, you'd probably have a much better product at a significantly cheaper, and earlier release because the companies want to milk as much as money out of the government as possible. 

 

EDIT: This reminded me of the F22 as well, that plane was designed over a decade ago and only saw combat last year. It was super expensive, and so behind schedule that they're already being phased out in the military despite them not being used at all. It's such a shame and a slap in the face for tax payers. 

Edited January 3, 201511 yr by Mr.Quiggles

The F35 is the prime example of the inefficient, MIC (Military Industrial Complex) at work. 

 

I understand that the F35 is supposed to replace everything, and uses "advanced" stealth technology and such, but still. 

 

If the private sector wasn't responsible for the production and research of this, you'd probably have a much better product at a significantly cheaper, and earlier release because the companies want to milk as much as money out of the government as possible. 

 

EDIT: This reminded me of the F22 as well, that plane was designed over a decade ago and only saw combat last year. It was super expensive, and so behind schedule that they're already being phased out in the military despite them not being used at all. It's such a shame and a slap in the face for tax payers. 

 

This is a prime example to use, for the government to start putting this companies under restrictions and not let the corporation's run into into our politics.

The F35 is the prime example of the inefficient, MIC (Military Industrial Complex) at work.

I understand that the F35 is supposed to replace everything, and uses "advanced" stealth technology and such, but still.

If the private sector wasn't responsible for the production and research of this, you'd probably have a much better product at a significantly cheaper, and earlier release because the companies want to milk as much as money out of the government as possible.

EDIT: This reminded me of the F22 as well, that plane was designed over a decade ago and only saw combat last year. It was super expensive, and so behind schedule that they're already being phased out in the military despite them not being used at all. It's such a shame and a slap in the face for tax payers.

Thank you, this is the problem I have with the military, you spend all this money on such expensive hardware and for what!? We do not need this, we're not going to war, (well we are but its a stupid war and a criminal one at that) but my point is this is why I say cut back on military, I don't care what people say, you can still protect the country without all this new fancy technology, doesn't our military have enough advancements as it is?

The F35 is primarily being designed because of the need for a "5th generation" fighter, beyond the eye of many people in the states nations like China and Russia are developing their own stealth fighter aircraft and the US is trying to keep itself a few steps ahead than other nations. Yes some of the current military airframes are long over due for retirement (as mentioned particularly the Marine Corps running AV8Bs & F/A18C's (the older models of the F/A18)) but many combat aircraft are still completely effective, for example Navy F/A 18F & E/A 18G's both airframes are relatively new and mission ready, two seater aircraft to allow for more accurate delivery of ordinance/ jamming as well as having two engines, in the case one engine fails the engines are powerful enough to keep the aircraft aloft on one. 

 

Basically with the world in it's current state, I understand the need for updating some of our older military gear BUT I do not see the F35 as a replacement for everything their looking to replace it with. To create a fighter that is suppose to fill 3 primary combat roles and then split that between 3 military branches, it simply isn't effective. 

 

It may do 3 jobs pretty well, but having multiple specific job oriented aircraft at a fraction of the cost 

 

Here's some on the jamming ability: http://breakingdefense.com/2014/03/why-the-navy-really-wants-22-more-fa-18gs/

Thank you, this is the problem I have with the military, you spend all this money on such expensive hardware and for what!? We do not need this, we're not going to war, (well we are but its a stupid war and a criminal one at that) but my point is this is why I say cut back on military, I don't care what people say, you can still protect the country without all this new fancy technology, doesn't our military have enough advancements as it is?

 

i mean look at Canada, we only spend the same amount on our whole military, about the same amount the US spends on their whole entire Navy. Its true and Canada is doing really well with it too.

I find, like the beautiful Eurofighter Typhoon (my profile picture) that this is quite common within military contracts! The Typhoon is an aircraft which was thought up many years ago, first flight 1994, and only now are proper weapons integrations occurring. They're talking about the Brimstone & Storm Shadow being fitted like its a complete success story, when it has taken 20 years to fit and still isn't ready yet. It prolongs the retirement date of the Tornado, a cold war aircraft. The new E-scan radar being fitted should have been done a while ago, it may have been a decision which cost the Eurofighter group the India contract to Rafale. Politicians spend so much time arguing about something they know nothing about, they interfere, make it worse in an attempt to save money and end up costing more in the long term (F-35 changing between B & C variant cost us a lot of money and delays the entry date). 

 

I wish the RAF & RN didn't buy this F-35, I wish Europe didn't buy it, they should have got all aircraft industries together, Saab, Rafale & Eurofighter, BAE, etc and created their own fifth gen fighter/bomber aircraft, but in this day and age of economical difficulty and political nonsense it also would have been over budget and delayed. I wander how the Russians do it so well.

I find, like the beautiful Eurofighter Typhoon (my profile picture) that this is quite common within military contracts! The Typhoon is an aircraft which was thought up many years ago, first flight 1994, and only now are proper weapons integrations occurring. They're talking about the Brimstone & Storm Shadow being fitted like its a complete success story, when it has taken 20 years to fit and still isn't ready yet. It prolongs the retirement date of the Tornado, a cold war aircraft. The new E-scan radar being fitted should have been done a while ago, it may have been a decision which cost the Eurofighter group the India contract to Rafale. Politicians spend so much time arguing about something they know nothing about, they interfere, make it worse in an attempt to save money and end up costing more in the long term (F-35 changing between B & C variant cost us a lot of money and delays the entry date). 

 

I wish the RAF & RN didn't buy this F-35, I wish Europe didn't buy it, they should have got all aircraft industries together, Saab, Rafale & Eurofighter, BAE, etc and created their own fifth gen fighter/bomber aircraft, but in this day and age of economical difficulty and political nonsense it also would have been over budget and delayed. I wander how the Russians do it so well.

 

simply because Russia's aviation industry is government controlled and regulated heavily. Hence Sukhoi and Mikoyan along with other companies in Russia don't go behind Russia's back and deceive the government like in the west, and deliver on time with a finished and polished product.

Don't get me started on this. This is politics and bidding at their best.

Long story short, why replace the A-10????It's the the most ugly, beautiful aircraft we have. Nothing makes my balls tingle like hearing that 30mm gun hum her beautiful song. And now you're telling me the F-35's main gun won't actually be able to be used until another like 5 or 10 years later (didn't read the posted story, just going of other articles I read).

Somebody start a petition to keep the A-10! #SAVETHEWARTHOG

you guys are acting like Fighter Jets should be Replaced every 5 years but your Complaining about Price???? these "Old" Planes are Still Kicking Ass so whats the Issue

 

and also the F-22 was not a Failure OR a waste of money until Obama stopped the USAF from Buying More FOR the F-35.. which by the way A lot of the Things from the F-22 have been Ported over to this F-35.. Like In-Jet Door Bays - Thrust Vectoring (You can thank my Uncle Any time) - and Radar Absorbing Paint and more Specifications the Only really Difference between the two is the Vertical Take Off Option which makes it MORE EFFICIENT  Also Planes like these Don't get Shit out in 2 Years like the F/A-18 did yes the F-18 only took 4-5 Years but it did not have Anywhere near the Amount of Technical Advantages that the F-22 and F-35 have now..

 

Planes Take time to make if you think you can Do it better than how its Being Done now Stop Complaining on a Police Gaming Website and Get the Degrees Necessary to be able to Be, on these Design Teams, Plane Makers/Workers, Military Heads Etc... 

< snip >

Edited June 23, 20241 yr by tobeymaguire

you guys are acting like Fighter Jets should be Replaced every 5 years but your Complaining about Price???? these "Old" Planes are Still Kicking Ass so whats the Issue

 

and also the F-22 was not a Failure OR a waste of money until Obama stopped the USAF from Buying More FOR the F-35.. which by the way A lot of the Things from the F-22 have been Ported over to this F-35.. Like In-Jet Door Bays - Thrust Vectoring (You can thank my Uncle Any time) - and Radar Absorbing Paint and more Specifications the Only really Difference between the two is the Vertical Take Off Option which makes it MORE EFFICIENT  Also Planes like these Don't get Shit out in 2 Years like the F/A-18 did yes the F-18 only took 4-5 Years but it did not have Anywhere near the Amount of Technical Advantages that the F-22 and F-35 have now..

 

Planes Take time to make if you think you can Do it better than how its Being Done now Stop Complaining on a Police Gaming Website and Get the Degrees Necessary to be able to Be, on these Design Teams, Plane Makers/Workers, Military Heads Etc... 

 

Actually what's fucking up the dev of the f-35 is, like I said above, politics. The Pentagon is tired of the issues that's arising within the development. The services are wanting to push these out immediately, but the plane is, to use a known expression here, an "Early Access" plane. They can't solve the HUD glitch mounted to the helmet, the main cannon which is a downgrade for USAF won't be operational until 2019 due to a computer glitch, the cannon only holds around 200 rounds, and many test pilots have been stating that it handles worse than current fighters for A2A combat. The Joint Chiefs are wanting to roll this baby out now, and the pentagon is tired of bailing out the program because Lockheed-Martin can't get their shit together.

 

In my opinion, this is nothing more than the Politics at it's best. We're trying to design a plane that can be effective in multiple roles (ground attack, air attack, etc), and the fact is is that it's not needed. Our current planes are effective at their designated jobs and none of the pilots or the services are complaining.

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

Actually what's fucking up the dev of the f-35 is, like I said above, politics. The Pentagon is tired of the issues that's arising within the development. The services are wanting to push these out immediately, but the plane is, to use a known expression here, an "Early Access" plane. They can't solve the HUD glitch mounted to the helmet, the main cannon which is a downgrade for USAF won't be operational until 2019 due to a computer glitch, the cannon only holds around 200 rounds, and many test pilots have been stating that it handles worse than current fighters for A2A combat. The Joint Chiefs are wanting to roll this baby out now, and the pentagon is tired of bailing out the program because Lockheed-Martin can't get their shit together.

 

In my opinion, this is nothing more than the Politics at it's best. We're trying to design a plane that can be effective in multiple roles (ground attack, air attack, etc), and the fact is is that it's not needed. Our current planes are effective at their designated jobs and none of the pilots or the services are complaining.

 

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it." 

Sounds like they're singing the F-22 Blues.. Obama's Fault i Agree with what you said before those A-10's are hands down my Favorite Military Aircraft.. we Got the "Home of the Warthog" Here in Baltimore (MD-ANG) Nothing but A-10's i got video's of them doing Flyovers at the Ravens games here, they sound awesome and are literal Tank Killers, the Gattling gun on that baby is phenomenal 

you guys are acting like Fighter Jets should be Replaced every 5 years but your Complaining about Price???? these "Old" Planes are Still Kicking Ass so whats the Issue

 

and also the F-22 was not a Failure OR a waste of money until Obama stopped the USAF from Buying More FOR the F-35.. which by the way A lot of the Things from the F-22 have been Ported over to this F-35.. Like In-Jet Door Bays - Thrust Vectoring (You can thank my Uncle Any time) - and Radar Absorbing Paint and more Specifications the Only really Difference between the two is the Vertical Take Off Option which makes it MORE EFFICIENT  Also Planes like these Don't get Shit out in 2 Years like the F/A-18 did yes the F-18 only took 4-5 Years but it did not have Anywhere near the Amount of Technical Advantages that the F-22 and F-35 have now..

 

Planes Take time to make if you think you can Do it better than how its Being Done now Stop Complaining on a Police Gaming Website and Get the Degrees Necessary to be able to Be, on these Design Teams, Plane Makers/Workers, Military Heads Etc... 

Oh come on, you can't honestly defend the F-22 as a product of the MIC. Designed well over 10 years, if not 20 years ago, never saw action until 2014 due to numerous Operational Issues including crashes and oxygen for the pilots, massive delays, price increases, ect. That's why they stopped production cap at 200 years ago. 

 

Not saying there wasn't smart people working on the project, but clearly there wasn't enough R&D and engineers working for such a complex project. Lockheed Martin, as usual, clearly had it's eyes on the military contract, not so much the product.

 

Anyways, Air Superiority Stealth Fighters weren't really one of the Pentagon's major interests at the time. If it were, the program would've had the money and brains for it like they did during WWII and the Cold War. So many planes during that time were built like absolute tanks including our main heavy bomber, the B-52, designed in the late 40's. 

 

i mean look at Canada, we only spend the same amount on our whole military, about the same amount the US spends on their whole entire Navy. Its true and Canada is doing really well with it too.

To be fair, Canada doesn't have an aggressive Foreign Policy as America does. Whether it's for better or for worse, America has a much wider military operation globally than Canada. Canada wouldn't even be involved in Iraq & Afghanistan if it wasn't for their obligation to in NATO. 

 

To be fair, Canada doesn't have an aggressive Foreign Policy as America does. Whether it's for better or for worse, America has a much wider military operation globally than Canada. Canada wouldn't even be involved in Iraq & Afghanistan if it wasn't for their obligation to in NATO. 

 

Yup we would have been sitting back sipping on tim hortons coffee and enjoying poutine and other Canadian delicacies.

Oh come on, you can't honestly defend the F-22 as a product of the MIC. Designed well over 10 years, if not 20 years ago, never saw action until 2014 due to numerous Operational Issues including crashes and oxygen for the pilots, massive delays, price increases, ect. That's why they stopped production cap at 200 years ago. 

 

Not saying there wasn't smart people working on the project, but clearly there wasn't enough R&D and engineers working for such a complex project. Lockheed Martin, as usual, clearly had it's eyes on the military contract, not so much the product.

 

Anyways, Air Superiority Stealth Fighters weren't really one of the Pentagon's major interests at the time. If it were, the program would've had the money and brains for it like they did during WWII and the Cold War. So many planes during that time were built like absolute tanks including our main heavy bomber, the B-52, designed in the late 40's. 

the Oxygen Issues you Listed we're Fixed in 2013 the reason it took so long from 2005 to 2013 is Funding to Implement the changes onto the Existing Aircraft. the Reason for the issues were Malfunctioning Pressure Valve's and Carbon Air Filters (Note These Parts Were Not Made by the Same Company who made the Aircraft)    The Reason's for the F-22's Production being Terminated are 2 Main Ones, Like you said a Rise in the Cost of the Plane's And a Distinct Lack of Proper Adversary's for the Plane..

 

in Post-Cold-War Conflict the Need for Stealth was Lowered With the War on Terror being the main Military Focus.. which obviously the Terrorist Don't have Proper Anti-Air Defenses for there to be a Need for Stealth these two things Ultimately Contributed to the Termination of Production 

 

im not gonna sit here and argue the cost because i agree its too expensive but what you're saying about how long it took to Design it is a bit Unfair.. it took the F-117 almost 10 years To be ready for Introduction into the Military, The B-2 needed from 1981 to 1997 almost 20 years, and you see there's one Common theme with these 3 Aircraft not only the fact that the Designs take so long.. but all three of these Aircraft are Technologically Ground Breaking, And Masters of Stealth.   these 3 Planes are Examples of the Pinnacle of Military Aviation and they don't just get Churned out in 3 years,  or without growing Pains..

Don't get me started on this. This is politics and bidding at their best.

Long story short, why replace the A-10????It's the the most ugly, beautiful aircraft we have. Nothing makes my balls tingle like hearing that 30mm gun hum her beautiful song. And now you're telling me the F-35's main gun won't actually be able to be used until another like 5 or 10 years later (didn't read the posted story, just going of other articles I read).

Somebody start a petition to keep the A-10! #SAVETHEWARTHOG

There's actually a Facebook page dedicated to saving the A-10, and I am a proud follower. It has been saved for another year, and many lawmakers are in support of keeping the A-10. All you need to do is fly over and the enemies run away! I love watching videos of the GAU-8 coming in and saving ground troops from being ambushed. No plane is capable of delivering such a punch that the A-10 does.

There's actually a Facebook page dedicated to saving the A-10, and I am a proud follower. It has been saved for another year, and many lawmakers are in support of keeping the A-10. All you need to do is fly over and the enemies run away! I love watching videos of the GAU-8 coming in and saving ground troops from being ambushed. No plane is capable of delivering such a punch that the A-10 does.

 

plus if you dig around long enough there are actual petitions to save the A-10