If you have nothing left to contribute to the success of the topic, please don't comment. This is a personal request from me to you.

Okay let's not fight each other now, he was contributing to the topic, he was saying about how immigrates will find jobs and housing.

If you have nothing left to contribute to the success of the topic, please don't comment. This is a personal request from me to you.

I don't see how his post wasn't contributing to the topic. He was literally responding to exactly the part of your post that you'd brought up (self deportation), stating that he believes it to be utterly infeasible. While he could in theory have backed it with statistics, doing so isn't necessarily required; you certainly didn't say anything to back your claim that it's simple. If he finds a claim in your post absurd and points out the specific claim with a bit of reason why he finds it absurd, that's a pretty standard thing to do. You want to say "well, show some reason why it's absurd", that's one thing; in that case, you should also show some reason why you think it'd be easy. The success of the topic doesn't require people to agree with the OP or find it non-absurd; it is absolutely valid in a debate thread to challenge arguments made in the OP.

On topic now: "Get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is probably on the "bring peace and harmony to the Middle East" level of easier-said-than-done. It's already illegal to hire illegal immigrants, with penalties for employers who do so. Employers are typically required to make you fill out an I-9 form, which requires you to state the reason you're allowed to work in the US and provide them proof of your status (e.g. if you're a citizen, you must provide proof of citizenship, like a passport or birth certificate; if you have a work visa, you show it; if you have a green card, you show it). I'm not certain how much this is enforced (I've had 2 paying jobs; one of them checked it, the other didn't. However, I was already well known to the one that didn't, and they specifically knew I was a citizen), but it's the law. From what I can tell, Obama's increased this: spending less effort on deporting illegal immigrants frees up resources to go after American employers who tend to really, really, really like illegal immigration (for starters, they're not exactly going to turn you in to the state department of labor for violating things like minimum wage laws). That's one issue with "get rid of jobs" -- there are big incentives to hire illegal immigrants for certain types of work, and getting rid of jobs means prosecuting American employers.

I don't see how his post wasn't contributing to the topic. He was literally responding to exactly the part of your post that you'd brought up (self deportation), stating that he believes it to be utterly infeasible. While he could in theory have backed it with statistics, doing so isn't necessarily required; you certainly didn't say anything to back your claim that it's simple. If he finds a claim in your post absurd and points out the specific claim with a bit of reason why he finds it absurd, that's a pretty standard thing to do. You want to say "well, show some reason why it's absurd", that's one thing; in that case, you should also show some reason why you think it'd be easy. The success of the topic doesn't require people to agree with the OP or find it non-absurd; it is absolutely valid in a debate thread to challenge arguments made in the OP.

On topic now: "Get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is probably on the "bring peace and harmony to the Middle East" level of easier-said-than-done. It's already illegal to hire illegal immigrants, with penalties for employers who do so. Employers are typically required to make you fill out an I-9 form, which requires you to state the reason you're allowed to work in the US and provide them proof of your status (e.g. if you're a citizen, you must provide proof of citizenship, like a passport or birth certificate; if you have a work visa, you show it; if you have a green card, you show it). I'm not certain how much this is enforced (I've had 2 paying jobs; one of them checked it, the other didn't. However, I was already well known to the one that didn't, and they specifically knew I was a citizen), but it's the law. From what I can tell, Obama's increased this: spending less effort on deporting illegal immigrants frees up resources to go after American employers who tend to really, really, really like illegal immigration (for starters, they're not exactly going to turn you in to the state department of labor for violating things like minimum wage laws). That's one issue with "get rid of jobs" -- there are big incentives to hire illegal immigrants for certain types of work, and getting rid of jobs means prosecuting American employers.

I did state how it would be simple, in my first post. I guess next time I'll need to make it rainbow colored and in full capital letters.

I did state how it would be simple, in my first post. I guess next time I'll need to make it rainbow colored and in full capital letters.

You said it was simple. You gave an incredibly barebones argument that it would be, based on the premise that getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants is simple. Your backing for that is just asserting it; you give zero argument as to how it's simple to get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants, when there are relatively strong natural incentives to hire illegal immigrants for some jobs (e.g. less risk of a complaint to the labor department, generally willing to accept lower pay and longer hours because their alternatives are worse). I'm calling bullshit. Zelyth did as well. Making it rainbow colored and in capital letters doesn't somehow make it convincing. The fact that it's in your first post doesn't mean everyone has to accept it. To have any chance at all of convincing me, you have to actually make an argument that "getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is somehow simple; challenging that premise is absolutely a contribution to the thread.

You said it was simple. You gave an incredibly barebones argument that it would be, based on the premise that getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants is simple. Your backing for that is just asserting it; you give zero argument as to how it's simple to get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants, when there are relatively strong natural incentives to hire illegal immigrants for some jobs (e.g. less risk of a complaint to the labor department, generally willing to accept lower pay and longer hours because their alternatives are worse). I'm calling bullshit. Zelyth did as well. Making it rainbow colored and in capital letters doesn't somehow make it convincing. The fact that it's in your first post doesn't mean everyone has to accept it. To have any chance at all of convincing me, you have to actually make an argument that "getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is somehow simple; challenging that premise is absolutely a contribution to the thread.

I have a question if you don't mind, when you say strong natural incentives, you mean that some jobs motivate immigrants to apply therefore making it beneficial to the job?

You said it was simple. You gave an incredibly barebones argument that it would be, based on the premise that getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants is simple. Your backing for that is just asserting it; you give zero argument as to how it's simple to get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants, when there are relatively strong natural incentives to hire illegal immigrants for some jobs (e.g. less risk of a complaint to the labor department, generally willing to accept lower pay and longer hours because their alternatives are worse). I'm calling bullshit. Zelyth did as well. Making it rainbow colored and in capital letters doesn't somehow make it convincing. The fact that it's in your first post doesn't mean everyone has to accept it. To have any chance at all of convincing me, you have to actually make an argument that "getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is somehow simple; challenging that premise is absolutely a contribution to the thread.

Being right as you are this by no way proves illegal immigration is a good thing. It's illegal, after all. If the only way for an employer to survive is to hire illegals working for food and asking no insurance, I'd vote for reforming that part of the system instead of giving a blind eye to illegal immigration. 

 

After all, a huge chunk of budget goes to this welfare thing..

Being right as you are this by no way proves illegal immigration is a good thing. It's illegal, after all. If the only way for an employer to survive is to hire illegals working for food and asking no insurance, I'd vote for reforming that part of the system instead of giving a blind eye to illegal immigration. 

 

After all, a huge chunk of budget goes to this welfare thing..

 

This actually brings another problem, it's how companies work. Even though you, for example, reduce taxes or give them money to help them hiring true citizens, I highly doubt the companies will actually do so. After all, why doing that? They'll just get the money, the reduced taxes but still hire illegal workers for nothing, increasing their profits.

You said it was simple. You gave an incredibly barebones argument that it would be, based on the premise that getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants is simple. Your backing for that is just asserting it; you give zero argument as to how it's simple to get rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants, when there are relatively strong natural incentives to hire illegal immigrants for some jobs (e.g. less risk of a complaint to the labor department, generally willing to accept lower pay and longer hours because their alternatives are worse). I'm calling bullshit. Zelyth did as well. Making it rainbow colored and in capital letters doesn't somehow make it convincing. The fact that it's in your first post doesn't mean everyone has to accept it. To have any chance at all of convincing me, you have to actually make an argument that "getting rid of jobs and homes for illegal immigrants" is somehow simple; challenging that premise is absolutely a contribution to the thread.

I don't even know what you're talking about at this point, mainly because I don't really care to be honest.

 

All I'm trying to say, is that he challenged an opinion on something that I've already previously addressed in my original post. I don't see the sense in challenging something, when I've already explained it. 

 

It's almost like if you were to say that 2+2=4, because if you have 2 items, and add 2, you now have a total of 4. Then I ask, "Well how does it equal 4?".

Edited November 24, 201411 yr by CriminalKillaz

I honestly don't even know what you're talking about at this point. All I'm trying to say, is that he challenged an opinion on something that I've already previously addressed in my original post. I don't see the sense in challenging something, when I've already explained it. 

 

It's almost like if you were to say that 2+2=4, because if you have 2 items, and add 2, you now have a total of 4. Then I ask, "Well how does it equal 4?".

 

I believe they mean that you didn't clearly explain how easy it is according to you in term of organization, logistic and funding.

I believe they mean that you didn't clearly explain how easy it is according to you in term of organization, logistic and funding.

Now that I look back, this is true. I should have elaborated more on my original post. Thanks for making it simple and to the point!

I believe they mean that you didn't clearly explain how easy it is according to you in term of organization, logistic and funding.

Exactly, using the math term is a bad analogy, CK probably doesn't understand it mainly because he doesn't see the how cp702 was correcting him. There is nothing wrong with challenging an opinion,even if it is somewhat obvious.

Exactly, using the math term is a bad analogy, CK probably doesn't understand it mainly because he doesn't see the how cp702 was correcting him. There is nothing wrong with challenging an opinion,even if it is somewhat obvious.

I didn't understand what was going on, because I'm too lazy to read more than a paragraph on something that I don't really care for, and doesn't affect my personal well-being. This was the case with cp702's comment, no disrespect intended, just simply the truth. 

Well, in my opinion it's so interesting topic so may I write something about me and my thoughts as a person which is from other country and would like to live in the United States.

 

I am 20 years old, I was born in Poland and I still live there.

I would like to live in the USA because I just love this country. I've been there once and I was shocked when I saw how other country can be developed.

Don't understand me wrong - my country isn't poor but comparing to USA it is.

 

A few years ago I decided to choose the subject of my studies which allows me to live and work in other country.

In this year, I began to study the physical therapy on one of the best Universities in Poland. In my opinion the subject I chose will probably give this possibility to live in the United States of America.

In 5 years, I would like to graduate my studies and I'm going to go to USA to study there on PhD studies.

 

I began to study English a lot to improve my language skills. My University also give me the possibility to help me in studying many English words related to physiotherapy which are using in USA especially.

I've been preparing to pass TOEFL and GRE exams ( I'm going to write them in 4-5 years! )because they're my pass to your country. I know all rules of those exams and recrutations to US universities. I've been reading a lot about it.

What's more, I've been training karate for 8 years and I'm going to gain the black belt in the same time I'll graduate my studies in Poland. I also take part in personal trainer course and if I pass it, I'll receive the authorization to do this. This document comes from USA.

I don't want to be illegal immigrant or parasite from American taxes.

 

 

As you can see, I've got a lot of work to do. I want to study in USA and live there but I think if I want to live there, I should give something to you.

 

In my country we've got some problems with immigrants like other countries have got too.

In my opinion everyone who wants to live in other country, should to something to be more valuable for citizens.

 

 

That's my opnion about it.

I didn't understand what was going on, because I'm too lazy to read more than a paragraph on something that I don't really care for, and doesn't affect my personal well-being. This was the case with cp702's comment, no disrespect intended, just simply the truth. 

 

Evidently you do care about it, else, you wouldn't have started up a topic on it and replied numerous times.

 

Don't expect everyone to accept your ridiculous points and opinions.

 

If you are going to be immature and lazy with the people you are having a debate with, I see no further point in continuing this. If you're going to start a topic, be prepared to hear people's opinions, especially if they are opposed to your own.

Evidently you do care about it, else, you wouldn't have started up a topic on it and replied numerous times.

 

Don't expect everyone to accept your ridiculous points and opinions.

 

If you are going to be immature and lazy with the people you are having a debate with, I see no further point in continuing this. If you're going to start a topic, be prepared to hear people's opinions, especially if they are opposed to your own.

I don't have a clue as to what you're rambling on about. All you've done is instigate the situation. 

 

First off, please don't make idiotic assumptions based on given circumstances. I don't have the patience for blatant retardation and incompetence, which is why I disregarded your argument in the first place. It was clearly my mistake for not elaborating further on my opinion, which you could have easily told me; as I was obviously oblivious to what you were trying to say.

 

Secondly, I was not having any debate with you, because of what I've mentioned above in bold. What I was saying was that I don't care about your opinion, your personal opinion only, so don't say what I would and wouldn't have done, because you're ignorant on that front. If you see no point in continuing this further, then why the fuck would you attack me in a comment? This isn't even about illegal immigration anymore, it's your lack of common sense. I was wrong on several fronts, and you've made the situation worse by instigating my chat with cp702.

Edited November 25, 201411 yr by CriminalKillaz

I don't have a clue as to what you're rambling on about. All you've done is instigate the situation. 

 

Maybe if you actually read people's comments you wouldn't be so lost.

 

First off, please don't make idiotic assumptions based on given circumstances. I don't have the patience for blatant retardation and incompetence, which is why I disregarded your argument in the first place. It was clearly my mistake for not elaborating further on my opinion, which you could have easily told me; as I was obviously oblivious to what you were trying to say.

 

So apparently assuming that you care about the topic that YOU started and replied to MANY times is "retarded" "idiotic" and "incompetent".

 

Secondly, I was not having any debate with you, because of what I've mentioned above in bold. What I was saying was that I don't care about your opinion, your personal opinion only, so don't say what I would and wouldn't have done, because you're ignorant on that front.

 

Uh... what? We were 100% percent having a debate until you said you didn't care about other people's opinions and were too lazy to read what people have to say in your own topic.

 

If you see no point in continuing this further, then why the fuck would you attack me in a comment? This isn't even about illegal immigration anymore, it's your lack of common sense. I was wrong on several fronts, and you've made the situation worse by instigating my chat with cp702.

 

Your definition of "someone with common sense" is "anyone who agrees with me". I "attacked" you because evidently you wanted to make an attack on cp702 by telling him you don't care about his opinion and that you're too lazy and have better things to do. I would hardly call it a "chat" either because you didn't even read what he had to say.

This is just getting out of hand,

@CK, I can't believe what I'm reading, no where in this topic did he make any idiotic assumptions and he's just simply pointing out your flaws in your argument. Also I don't see any point saying I'm too lazy too read other people's opinions, that's not how you win a debate.

@Zelyth, I basically agree with everything you've said, you're not instigating but simply pointing out the flaws in a argument. And it is true that a person is not native born unless they're aboriginal or extremely close to being aboriginal.

Maybe if you actually read people's comments you wouldn't be so lost.

 

 

So apparently assuming that you care about the topic that YOU started and replied to MANY times is "retarded" "idiotic" and "incompetent".

 

 

 

Uh... what? We were 100% percent having a debate until you said you didn't care about other people's opinions and were too lazy to read what people have to say in your own topic.

 

 

 

Your definition of "someone with common sense" is "anyone who agrees with me". I "attacked" you because evidently you wanted to make an attack on cp702 by telling him you don't care about his opinion and that you're too lazy and have better things to do. I would hardly call it a "chat" either because you didn't even read what he had to say.

Once again, you aren't paying any damn attention to what I'm saying. I'll say it yet again. 

 

I don't care about YOUR opinion, as I've said several times now. I do care about the subject, but I don't care about what YOU have to say, YOU personally.

 

We were having a debate until you decided that my opinion was humorous, which I don't appreciate. There's a difference between carelessness and disrespect. Most of the time, I'm careless, but I always try to be respectful, so long as you show me that same respect. Once you've disrespected me, I no longer have any regard for you, or your well-being. Like I've already said, most of the time I don't really care because it's the internet, but I always try to treat people with basic common courtesy. It's all about perspective, and people tend to take things on the internet the wrong way, including myself.

 

Once again, making retarded assumptions. I never said that I don't care about cp702's opinion. I said that I didn't care about what he had to say as far as him regarding my comment directed towards you. With me saying that I was too lazy, I was giving off the impression that I don't really care or have the patience to continuously participate in a discussion about something that I'm disinterested in.

 

Wrong as usual. My definition of common sense is the same as the dictionary definition. Pay a bit more attention, and consider perspective before you try to attack me again, thanks!

This is just getting out of hand,

@CK, I can't believe what I'm reading, no where in this topic did he make any idiotic assumptions and he's just simply pointing out your flaws in your argument. Also I don't see any point saying I'm too lazy too read other people's opinions, that's not how you win a debate.

@Zelyth, I basically agree with everything you've said, you're not instigating but simply pointing out the flaws in a argument. And it is true that a person is not native born unless they're aboriginal or extremely close to being aboriginal.

He's clearly made several idiotic assumptions, though as per usual these assumptions were very conspicuous. I've already explained above my purpose with stating that I was too lazy to read the post, because it was rambling on something that I didn't really care about. Why would I jump to do something that I don't care for?

 

Again, he clearly is instigating the situation, but attacking me in posts. He started the attacks, I'm just defending myself. My chit chat between cp702 and myself, is between us. I don't understand why Zelyth or whatever decided to get involved. Maybe because it's a public post, and I should have PM'ed him.

Edited November 26, 201411 yr by CriminalKillaz

Once again, you aren't paying any damn attention to what I'm saying. I'll say it yet again. 

 

I don't care about YOUR opinion, as I've said several times now. I do care about the subject, but I don't care about what YOU have to say, YOU personally.

 

We were having a debate until you decided that my opinion was humorous, which I don't appreciate. There's a difference between carelessness and disrespect. Most of the time, I'm careless, but I always try to be respectful, so long as you show me that same respect. Once you've disrespected me, I no longer have any regard for you, or your well-being. Like I've already said, most of the time I don't really care because it's the internet, but I always try to treat people with basic common courtesy. It's all about perspective, and people tend to take things on the internet the wrong way, including myself.

 

Once again, making retarded assumptions. I never said that I don't care about cp702's opinion. I said that I didn't care about what he had to say as far as him regarding my comment directed towards you. With me saying that I was too lazy, I was giving off the impression that I don't really care or have the patience to continuously participate in a discussion about something that I'm disinterested in.

 

Wrong as usual. My definition of common sense is the same as the dictionary definition. Pay a bit more attention, and consider perspective before you try to attack me again, thanks!

He's clearly made several idiotic assumptions, though as per usual these assumptions were very conspicuous. I've already explained above my purpose with stating that I was too lazy to read the post, because it was rambling on something that I didn't really care about. Why would I jump to do something that I don't care for?

 

Again, he clearly is instigating the situation, but attacking me in posts. He started the attacks, I'm just defending myself. My chit chat between cp702 and myself, is between us. I don't understand why Zelyth or whatever decided to get involved. Maybe because it's a public post, and I should have PM'ed him.

 

I slightly understand the situation a bit better, but I still think you're an arse and no longer wish to keep going back and forth with someone who gets offended that easily.

 

Goodbye.

I slightly understand the situation a bit better, but I still think you're an arse and no longer wish to keep going back and forth with someone who gets offended that easily.

 

Goodbye.

Good riddance, rest in peace.