I didn't really specify, but both really. My comment about morality was mainly in response to him saying the law justified it.

 

And when was he a threat upon leaving the vehicle? Had he left it and ran at the officers, let alone with a weapon, a shooting being justified could be argued and I would support it. Sticking his hands out the window, then slowly walking towards officers shouldn't be considered a threat. But then again, being that this is the same department who fired 114 rounds at a 2 hispanic women in a wrong make, model and color pickup truck during the Chris Dorner manhunt, I'm really not surprised if they did consider it a threat.

my dad and im sure every leo would consider him one. EVERY suspect is still a threat until searched and neutralized. he didn't stick his hands out the window nor did he walk towards officers he went AROUND his car and tried to escape. also after officers shout commands a certain number of times they are then justified on using force whether lethal or non. at this time he had his gun out. if he transitioned it might have given the suspect time to pull something and try to harm officers or civilians.

my dad and im sure every leo would consider him one. EVERY suspect is still a threat until searched and neutralized. he didn't stick his hands out the window nor did he walk towards officers he went AROUND his car and tried to escape. also after officers shout commands a certain number of times they are then justified on using force whether lethal or non. at this time he had his gun out. if he transitioned it might have given the suspect time to pull something and try to harm officers or civilians.

This is what happens when people don't read previous pages, because I already covered everything. I forgot to add that he was a threat, though not worthy of being shot, because I had already argued that every page of this thread. Yes, he was still a threat, but not enough to be shot upon leaving the vehicle.

 

Next, pay careful attention to when right before he exits the car. His hands leave the window, and you can see bullets strike the vehicle. He was shot at before he even exited the car. He slowly walked, didn't run, towards officers that were still firing at him. Probably upon realizing that he was being hit, he stumbled and tried to get behind cover, which is a perfectly rational reaction when you have been hit multiple times by gunshots and there are still people shooting at you.

 

And there was never a time in this video when the suspect could be seen with a gun.

All I can say is some people in here shouldn't become cop's 

 

and more importantly

 

I hope to god I never have to rely on you as back up or you are my partner

 

cause

 

as far as I'm concerned Cops here did the right thing and are fully justified in their action's bottom line

All I can say is some people in here shouldn't become cop's 

 

and more importantly

 

I hope to god I never have to rely on you as back up or you are my partner

 

cause

 

as far as I'm concerned Cops here did the right thing and are fully justified in their action's bottom line

I hope to god you don't become a cop, since you see someone walking towards you as a threat you can justifiably shoot.

 

And care to explain your argument? So far, the furthest you've expanded on it is "justified given facts and events." Do you care to explain what those facts and events are?

I hope to god you don't become a cop, since you see someone walking towards you as a threat you can justifiably shoot.

 

And care to explain your argument? So far, the furthest you've expanded on it is "justified given facts and events." Do you care to explain what those facts and events are?

 

Oh don't worry I'm already in the process of being hired by a Pd 

and on serveral other waiting list's

 

Every1 has already explained guy was a threat had weapon's at his disposal needed to be neutralized and was along with all the other supporter's comment's

 

can't please every1 esp if they are anti police and gun's

Oh don't worry I'm already in the process of being hired by a Pd

and on serveral other waiting list's

Every1 has already explained guy was a threat had weapon's at his disposal needed to be neutralized and was along with all the other supporter's comment's

can't please every1 esp if they are anti police and gun's

He left his weapon, his vehicle, and was in the process of surrendering(hands out window) when the police opened fire. But despite being shot, he continued slowly walking, not running, towards cops with his hands visible.

And please show where I have ever been anti-gun on this forum.

He left his weapon, his vehicle, and was in the process of surrendering(hands out window) when the police opened fire. But despite being shot, he continued slowly walking, not running, towards cops with his hands visible.

And please show where I have ever been anti-gun on this forum.

 

never stuck his hand's out the window just got out start walking to the other side of his car yes hands up but walking towards the other to of the car he wass still a threat could had the gun on him, coulda been  going around to the other side for cover/ to get the gun etc etc  He was still an active thhreat

 

not only that unit 13  car 889 was right there him being an active threat  coulda and likely seen as him going towards them being an active and hostile threat you are going to defend your fellow officer's

 

 

Officer's acted how they were suppose to and were justified  investagaition will reveal so

This is what happens when people don't read previous pages, because I already covered everything. I forgot to add that he was a threat, though not worthy of being shot, because I had already argued that every page of this thread. Yes, he was still a threat, but not enough to be shot upon leaving the vehicle.

 

Next, pay careful attention to when right before he exits the car. His hands leave the window, and you can see bullets strike the vehicle. He was shot at before he even exited the car. He slowly walked, didn't run, towards officers that were still firing at him. Probably upon realizing that he was being hit, he stumbled and tried to get behind cover, which is a perfectly rational reaction when you have been hit multiple times by gunshots and there are still people shooting at you.

 

And there was never a time in this video when the suspect could be seen with a gun.

I didn't say he did have one. I said IF he had one. and if he wasn't complying with officers then the force the officers thought was necessary could be used. Maybe the officers saw something they thought was a weapon. again we don't know how it started. we don't have as good of view as the officers.

never stuck his hand's out the window just got out start walking to the other side of his car yes hands up but walking towards the other to of the car he wass still a threat could had the gun on him, coulda been  going around to the other side for cover/ to get the gun etc etc  He was still an active thhreat

 

not only that unit 13  car 889 was right there him being an active threat  coulda and likely seen as him going towards them being an active and hostile threat you are going to defend your fellow officer's

 

 

Officer's acted how they were suppose to and were justified  investagaition will reveal so

This is what I have been trying to say the whole time! you just put it into simpler words for me lol 

never stuck his hand's out the window just got out start walking to the other side of his car yes hands up but walking towards the other to of the car he wass still a threat could had the gun on him, coulda been going around to the other side for cover/ to get the gun etc etc He was still an active thhreat

not only that unit 13 car 889 was right there him being an active threat coulda and likely seen as him going towards them being an active and hostile threat you are going to defend your fellow officer's

Officer's acted how they were suppose to and were justified investagaition will reveal so

Read post 102.

I didn't say he did have one. I said IF he had one. and if he wasn't complying with officers then the force the officers thought was necessary could be used. Maybe the officers saw something they thought was a weapon. again we don't know how it started. we don't have as good of view as the officers.

This is what I have been trying to say the whole time! you just put it into simpler words for me lol

What is so hard to understand? He was shot at before exiting the car, and he was continually shot while not indicating he would assault them.

EDIT: primary reason for pursuit- possible DUI. Typically, the danger with them comes from vehicle accidents, not shootings. And once again, he had willingly forsaken control of his weapon before being shot.http://ktla.com/2013/12/14/lapd-investigating-pursuit-that-ended-with-man-shot-and-killed/#axzz2nbqeVY8o

I don't know C13, but if you look just at the point when he looks like he takes some rounds, you can see what look like two or three little white balls bouncing off onto the ground. In other words bean bags. but then again taking a bean bag shot from that distance seems absurd but I'm no cop. The way he reacted from the impacted didn't seem like any type of bullet impact I've ever seen, but once again I'm no expert. It seems that possibly if they did use bean bags it either hit him in a lethal area or just knocked him cold. Either way, their choice of action is questionable. 

I don't know C13, but if you look just at the point when he looks like he takes some rounds, you can see what look like two or three little white balls bouncing off onto the ground. In other words bean bags. but then again taking a bean bag shot from that distance seems absurd but I'm no cop. The way he reacted from the impacted didn't seem like any type of bullet impact I've ever seen, but once again I'm no expert. It seems that possibly if they did use bean bags it either hit him in a lethal area or just knocked him cold. Either way, their choice of action is questionable.

I'm not sure what those are, but they're not beanbag rounds. I have some in my room and they are about 2.5" x 1" x 1".

I'm not sure what those are, but they're not beanbag rounds. I have some in my room and they are about 2.5" x 1" x 1".

 

Ah, ok, like I said I'm no expert, but I just thought it might be worth pointing out because I had no idea where those objects came from. They definitely had no cause to shoot him in my opinion, I'm not a person who thinks it's ok to take a life but the man put hundreds of other innocent people in danger and was selfish enough to do so. But of course, personal opinion, not opposing yours or anyone else's.

I cannot believe the absurd comments on here how the lapd thugs were justified in shooting an unarmed man....you wonder why a lot of people hate cops? this video is one of the main reasons why and also this is the same department that open fired on a innocent civilian car back when dorner was on the run the lapd are nothing but a bunch of corrupt thugs that give good police officers a bad name there are some good lapd cops but this department has a long history of violence on innocent civilians

Read post 102.

What is so hard to understand? He was shot at before exiting the car, and he was continually shot while not indicating he would assault them.

EDIT: primary reason for pursuit- possible DUI. Typically, the danger with them comes from vehicle accidents, not shootings. And once again, he had willingly forsaken control of his weapon before being shot.http://ktla.com/2013/12/14/lapd-investigating-pursuit-that-ended-with-man-shot-and-killed/#axzz2nbqeVY8o

the officers were justified because he used his car as a weapon towards the officers by backing up in which at the exact same time im sure officers were yelling commands and he did not comply the suspect was neutralized before harming himself or other innocent bystanders. he then proceeded to make his way to the passenger door where a gun or other type of weapon could of been located. the officers don't have time to go by all the what ifs. in their head he put the car in reverse attempted to either hit or flee the scene and therefore felt his life was in danger along with the passenger of the other persons car, he then proceeded to neutralize the subject before he could hurt anyone. 

the officers were justified because he used his car as a weapon towards the officers by backing up in which at the exact same time im sure officers were yelling commands and he did not comply the suspect was neutralized before harming himself or other innocent bystanders. he then proceeded to make his way to the passenger door where a gun or other type of weapon could of been located. the officers don't have time to go by all the what ifs. in their head he put the car in reverse attempted to either hit or flee the scene and therefore felt his life was in danger along with the passenger of the other persons car, he then proceeded to neutralize the subject before he could hurt anyone. 

The officers would only be justified in shooting him using his vehicle as a weapon IF and only if he was still actively using it as a weapon.

 

Once he drops the weapon, you lose your authority to use deadly force. 

 

Before we decide whos right and whos wrong we should wait to hear the other side of the story. A helicopter video is not significant proof it wasn't justified. 

 

Also unrelated to the shooting itself the vehicle that was hit by the Corvette actually ran that red light and caused the crash. You can see this from another news helicopters camera KNBC. So the accident wasn't caused by the Corvette driver so he didn't mean to use it as a deadly weapon in this case. 

Edited December 16, 201312 yr by Brandan

the officers were justified because he used his car as a weapon towards the officers by backing up in which at the exact same time im sure officers were yelling commands and he did not comply the suspect was neutralized before harming himself or other innocent bystanders. he then proceeded to make his way to the passenger door where a gun or other type of weapon could of been located. the officers don't have time to go by all the what ifs. in their head he put the car in reverse attempted to either hit or flee the scene and therefore felt his life was in danger along with the passenger of the other persons car, he then proceeded to neutralize the subject before he could hurt anyone.

And for the tenth time this thread, they began shooting at him before he exited the car. When he exited the car, he no longer had a weapon visible and made no indication he had one, removing justification to shoot him.

The police knew he was drunk, and common sense says he wouldn't think straight having just crashed while being drunk. He was most likely giving up being that he was slowly walking towards the police, not running, and his hands were visible, leaving your argument that he was still attempting to escape inaccurate.

The police started shooting at him before he even got out of the car, but after it was parked. There was a traffic light blocking the car from the cops, leaving your argument that it was because he backed towards them inaccurate.

The police continued shooting at him as he was clearly unarmed and not making sudden movements with both hands visible, therefore posing little threat, leaving your argument that he might have reached for his wasteband inaccurate.

The suspect didn't notice he'd been shot, or quite likely based on past LAPD shootings, didn't get hit but didn't realize they were shooting at him until he got to the trunk. He turned, probably to shield his body from the bullets, before trying to get to cover behind the vehicle. This was about 4 seconds after the shooting began, leaving your argument that he was shot because he was going to the trunk/passenger side inaccurate.

I feel bad and a bit emberassed for saying this, but this was one of the best chases I've seen. I quite enjoyed it.

 

I'd say it wasn't right to shoot the suspect from what I could see. The guy wasn't really trying to give up, and while he did look unarmed you don't know if he had a gun under his clothes or if he made a move that some officers would consider a threat. We can't judge people from an armchair, but yeah I'd say they should have used the beanbag. I don't think a taser could shoot that far though, or that you can properly hit the suspect with it.

I couldn't believe when they shot him, I thought the guy was just so high on something that he collapsed by himself, also LAPD and CHP has lots of experience in chases like that and usually these chases end up in the guy getting arrested.

 

EDIT: How do you know he was being shot at as soon as the vehicle crashed? That looked pretty much like they only started to shooting him after he got out of the car.

Also this got me thinking, maybe the suspect bailed out of the car without the officers telling them to, and if you jump out of the car facing the cops, that's quite a big threat, like reaching into your pockets very fast.

Also I read on some news site, that the guy was pronounced dead by the paramedics.

Edited December 16, 201312 yr by Sgt.Kanyo

Anyone who thinks they can present a case that justifies this shooting should, to put it bluntly, go play in traffic. 

 

The man got out of his vehicle and posed no harm to officers. He was stumbling around a fairly far distance from the officers. 

The ones who took the shots should be fired, and charged. Typical LAPD. 

 

Extreme indifference to human life, put everyone in the city of LA at risk of death for NO good reason, extremely likely to re-offend in the future. Filth washed into the gutter by the hydrant he caused to break. Streets are safer. Checkmate.

I feel bad and a bit emberassed for saying this, but this was one of the best chases I've seen. I quite enjoyed it.

 

I'd say it wasn't right to shoot the suspect from what I could see. The guy wasn't really trying to give up, and while he did look unarmed you don't know if he had a gun under his clothes or if he made a move that some officers would consider a threat. We can't judge people from an armchair, but yeah I'd say they should have used the beanbag. I don't think a taser could shoot that far though, or that you can properly hit the suspect with it.

I couldn't believe when they shot him, I thought the guy was just so high on something that he collapsed by himself, also LAPD and CHP has lots of experience in chases like that and usually these chases end up in the guy getting arrested.

 

EDIT: How do you know he was being shot at as soon as the vehicle crashed? That looked pretty much like they only started to shooting him after he got out of the car.

Also this got me thinking, maybe the suspect bailed out of the car without the officers telling them to, and if you jump out of the car facing the cops, that's quite a big threat, like reaching into your pockets very fast.

Also I read on some news site, that the guy was pronounced dead by the paramedics.

Well yeah, its rare that police would pronounce someone dead unless they're decapitated. It looks like they used both lethal and nonlethal force in the end by the crap scattering across the ground. That could also be a shotgun I guess, usually beanbags are shot via shotguns. 

Man oh man...are we all looking at the same video??  The guy was unarmed, posed no lethal threat to anybody at the time he was shot...PERIOD!  A cop simply can't kill someone because he "thinks" he is a threat, and "may" have a weapon.  Until the guy pulls out the weapon and points it at a cop, homicide is not a responsible action on behalf of the cops.

 

I don't give a crap about "until you have been there" argument, that is no non-sequitur.  You are a trained professional "peace officer", not the damn Seal-Team-6, kill on sight rules of engagement.  Yea, he did bad shit and probably a bad guy.  He should be charged as such, not killed...unless he produced a weapon...then time to take his butt down.

 

Come on guys!  Use your heads for crying out loud. 

 

DrDetroit