I have to agree, I've been here since late 2010 and I've seen my fair share of flamewars of which most of those are over really stupid things. The best thing to do is simply ignore it and possibly report the post (if it's quite offensive or such) rather than "challenging" the person, that just makes things worse. 

 

Ive only been here since mid '12 and their was al lest one flame war a mouth, where it was on a forum,file or picture, so yeah their has been alot of them

I agree things have things seem to have gotten a lot worse lately. Like others have said though, sometimes its hard to just let stuff go when it happens all the time. I'm not saying I'm innocent because I've been involved in my fair share of heated back and forth but were all human and if you spend any amount of time here and are involved with the community eventually its going to get to you. Plus you have a lot more people that are modding now than a year or two ago. It could be a sense of competition now and people just trying to cut each other down. That didn't exist when I started, I could release a car and it would be the only one released for days, now we have multiple cars per day. Sometimes stuff just starts by people voicing a harmless opinion about something that was in no way meant to be malicious at all but if one person takes a little offense to that, then let the flaming begin

 

I have to agree with you there. The competition is huge here, on LCPDFR. That could be the cause of a lot of things... 

I try to make my criticism as constructive as possible. if I have something negative I usually have pictures or reasoning behind my argument, Yet some people probably think im an asshole for what I tell people. The fact is.. the community as a whole has gotten the idea that no matter what your work looks like its a must to release it. I've seen some people release skins for quote unquote (FEEDBACK Purposes) what????!! did they forget what the Forums are for?? its literally beyond me why people insist on releasing their early work. I was modding for a good 2 months or so before I ever released anything on here because I didn't want to flood the download section with the regular old cvpi with a justice..  that's why there is so much constructive criticism people are tired of other people releasing trash.. plain and simple.. and its nothing against them, obviously when your new to something your not gonna be amazing at it off the bat, it takes practice.. and a lot of it,  skins OR models.  When I see someone say on their uploads "just a little skin I made took me 5 minutes" I automatically rate 1 star.. NO one should be releasing something to the community that took them 5 minutes to make and expect it to have high ratings and tons of downloads that is what I call insane thinking.

Given the recent flaming about destructive comments, this may be a wake up call for others who may eventually appreciate good criticism.

Young kids, and many adults, have yet to learn; it's not what you say, it's how you say it.  Tact and constructive communication is now always evident most of the time.

 

DrDetroit

Edited August 25, 201312 yr by drdetroit

I've seen some truly harsh comments on files and posts since I've been here (mid 2011) and it does seem to be getting worse, constructive criticism is what you give to people to help them IMPROVE for the future so they can release much higher quality work. Here's an example;

 

 

 

To be honest, this skin is terrible. But, if you keep working on it and practice consistently you will produce much higher quality work. Make sure when you're creating textures to take your time and not rush the project, use tons of reference photo's of the car in the real world and test it in your own game before you rush out a version because you just wanted the feeling of uploading here. Hopefully we can see some better skins in the future from you

 

Thats constructive criticism, I've outlined the flaws in the texture and told the person how they could improve it and work towards a better version, by also saying that I'm looking forward to seeing progress, it motivates the uploader to try harder as they feel they have the support of the community.

 

Simply saying "This skin is shit / sucks / is terrible and you should just stop making stuff" is wrong. Thats not constructive at all, you're implying that the creator has no hope of making any improvement. We've all started from the bottom and whilst I'm no expert (I still consider myself a big novice to the modding scene) I've still used feedback from the community to improve my work, take for example my first ever model:

 

 

That model is just awful. But, thanks to the advice and helpfulness of our members, I went away and spent a few months working on improving my skills which allowed me to go back and remake this model a tad later:

 

 

I then continued to build and transitioned to ELS models, I'm not even going to attempt creating something from scratch because I simply do not posses the skills to do so.

 

TL:DR: If you're going to criticize a file, please include how the author could prehaps improve it. Link to tutorials, offer to help them with any question they may have etc.

 

 

As you might have noticed, we're beefing up our moderation staff and by the end of next week, we'll have four more moderators on hand to deal with this stuff.  Of course, we'll have more to say about this when the time comes.  I'm hoping also that with some of the things which are coming up in the next couple of months (GTA V and something else which we won't name because, well, that would be telling), there will hopefully be a better atmosphere.

 

Unfortunately every time that we crack down on this sort of thing, someone posts a topic complaining about how we've turned into Nazi Germany and how we're worse than North Korea, etc. etc.  It would be really helpful for us if people could report things like this and then when we start taking action about it, it would be even more helpful if everyone could refrain from jumping on the Nazi/SS/North Korea/China/Communist (lol)/Whatever else bandwagon.

 

The sad fact is that this place revolves around a large modding community, and when you have people with egos the size of Jupiter, people who just aren't old enough and mature enough to handle themselves properly and people that have it stuck in their thick skull that they are the best in the world at everything, all you need is for all of these to combine along with the new modders and the majority of the community who enjoy the content on offer, it is a very combustible element to say the least.

 

Indeed, if you want an example of what happens when all of that combines, look no further than this: '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

The sad fact is that this place revolves around a large modding community, and when you have people with egos the size of Jupiter, people who just aren't old enough and mature enough to handle themselves properly and people that have it stuck in their thick skull that they are the best in the world at everything, all you need is for all of these to combine along with the new modders and the majority of the community who enjoy the content on offer, it is a very combustible element to say the least.

 

Indeed, if you want an example of what happens when all of that combines, look no further than this: '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

Using me as an example isn't going to help anyone, nor is kicking up settled dust.

 

Using me as an example isn't going to help anyone, nor is kicking up settled dust.

 

Well if you look at the issue being discussed here - people are tired with the drama.  I mean that's clearly obvious from the first post and the posts after.  Now, if the drama is a problem, then surely people would think that it is something that we, as the Community Team, should do something about.

 

The problem with that though is that when we do step in and try to cut down on the drama, stuff like that incident with you happens.  I think that being a good example, it is only fitting that it is used to demonstrate my point.  No dust is being kicked up - I'm simply making it clear why it is a tough situation for us as well.

Some people ''create'' drama. If someone gives critic or a little joke, that is human. And I find it weird you compare us to the SS and North Korea.

Some people ''create'' drama. If someone gives critic or a little joke, that is human. And I find it weird you compare us to the SS and North Korea.

 

That's what people compare us, as staff members, to when we step in and stop it.

That's what people compare us, as staff members, to when we step in and stop it.

Well, you're obviously not. I understand you guys try to ensure such events from not happening. However this is and will always be the internet. Birth of the memes, rages and where everybody fucked your mother. (<--Online gamers in a nutshell). I'd say try not to go too hardcore on this as this always will be. Too much energy and time. And a lil' joke every now and then must remain appropriate!

I then continued to build and transitioned to ELS models, I'm not even going to attempt creating something from scratch because I simply do not posses the skills to do so.

 

TL:DR: If you're going to criticize a file, please include how the author could prehaps improve it. Link to tutorials, offer to help them with any question they may have etc.

 

You aren't the only one. But it seems that these "top notch modders/modelers" don't seem to understand that about people, and they just rant, rant, and more rant on every ones work.

You aren't the only one. But it seems that these "top notch modders/modelers" don't seem to understand that about people, and they just rant, rant, and more rant on every ones work.

Bullshit. We all started as ''lightbar adders''.

What lately piss me off is what I'm dowrated without giving any reason. I accept that some of my latest mods could have been somewhat better, but when I do an accurate one, I can't understand why it should be dowrated, at least they could give me some constructive criticism (well, they don't actually give any kind of criticism) to see what is wrong with it so I can improve, or prove that the skin is okay.

Bullshit. We all started as ''lightbar adders''.

 

Re-read what I said..

I feel bad for all the modders out there who get tons of crap because of one mistake!

Well if you look at the issue being discussed here - people are tired with the drama.  I mean that's clearly obvious from the first post and the posts after.  Now, if the drama is a problem, then surely people would think that it is something that we, as the Community Team, should do something about.

 

The problem with that though is that when we do step in and try to cut down on the drama, stuff like that incident with you happens.  I think that being a good example, it is only fitting that it is used to demonstrate my point.  No dust is being kicked up - I'm simply making it clear why it is a tough situation for us as well.

You know, I'm quite sure that I've noticed the chaos going on recently. I don't need to be enlightened on what this thread is about, if anything, you do.

 

If you knew the happenings on your site then no stupid references to me and my apparent huge ego would have to be made. I don't go around causing drama in every single place where possible. But of course, one incident with me makes me the perfect example for you to use because of the modder that I am. Almost every single mod that has been uploaded lately has had a flame war follow, something which that cannot be compared to an incident from a few months back.

 

As I've said many times, go take a look at your database and the absolute mess that resides there. You certainly ought to realize that people are looking for quality, not poorly made modifications. If everyone is allowed to upload their modifications, no matter the quality and experience, then who on earth is going to care about making use of the forums for feedback and advice? Using the downloads database as a platform for feedback on first-timer mods is honestly poor and affects the image of your site. If someone creates an absolutely horrible mod, aren't users allowed to at least give their opinion on it? I mean, I was looking at a mod which was uploaded to this site a few days ago (absolutely horrific quality), all the comments referring to the poor quality were removed and only one left over where the mod was referred to as "excellent". Great moderation tactics.

 

When you're in a situation where everyone wants to be a modder and feedback is rejected,  then obviously situations such as these will arise.

In my opinion, it's really interesting to see that everybody is attacking the "top modders". From what I've seen, the guys who are modding for years, are completely quiet. Sometimes, they're giving feedback. And this is usually not something like "Wow, I always wanted to have something like this", but critics. I've never seen EVI, Kevin, NickieB, Teddy or Bxbugs123 commenting a file saying "Oh, it sucks, you're using unlocked models only".

The problem is not only that "smartasses" are saying what can be improved, but the author's reaction is often harsh. You get criticism because people want you to improve it, not because they try to humliate.

The larger issue is the envy. "Oh man, his car has more downloads, let's give him 1 star only". Only a website's staff can change this, by either controlling ratings or thinking about a different way for rating.

 

 

But now to come to the source of the problems:

There are tons of unlocked models, so it's possible to create all kinds of vehicles without having to create anything. And a lot of people are trying this, there target is seemingly not to produce unique quality work, but to produce many work.

 

And that competition is what causes these issues. Most people are creating fictional mods, nothing based on a real department. Then, many people think they can do better, with sightly different setups. With the current size of the community, you can't stop that competition. Three years ago, it was possible to count all police vehicle modders with one hand. When Bxbugs started releasing unlocked models like the CVPI, more and more people tried to do their own cars. And last year, the large rush started. It's simply an unstoppable process.

The only thing that can be changed, is the way people are fighting their way to the top. Modders should stop trying to make many mods and concentrate on making them better. Creating a vehicle is more than importing a lightbar and adding some texture. I see cars without working distance models or plastic parts with chrome reflections. It's not hard to find out how materials or LODs should be set up.

 

 

I remember a thread on GPM more than two years ago. Kevin was asking if people are interested in an unlocked release of his Liberty lightbar. Somebody said no, because he doesn't want the IV community to end up like the SA community, with many modders and many mods, but nothing special. But that's exactly what happend here.

 

 

Long story made short: It's too late to change the community, although modders should try to care more about quality. If you recieve criticism, stay calm and think about it, is it a good or a bad idea.

Nobody can personally do anything about envy ratings, unless he's the one giving them.

Although I am no modder myself, I have been an active member of this community since early 2011. I have to say, it's a shame to see that modding has become a case of competition and ratings. This community has indeed become the victim of its own succes which has led to an enormous increase of members starting to create textures and models in the last few years. On one hand, Kevin is right when he says that this evolution has led to the downloads database being flooded with modifications of somewhat questionable quality. On the other hand though, one must also take into account that the staff on this forum cannot be expected to remove these mods just because they are of low quality. As to the harsh comments on some of these mods, this cannot be avoided since respect and common decency are often lacking in todays world unfortunately. It is only logical that the staff removes these pointless comments since nothing good can come of these type of remarks.
In my humble opinion, modding should always remain a hobby, something the creator enjoys doing. Lately, it seems modding revolves more around the amount of downloads and the reputation that comes with it.