Riley24

Ok, so that could very well be true. But I guess I'm missing the overall point you're trying to make, and the overall point of the media. Even if felonious killings of police officers has risen, what evidence shows that that is related to the tensions? I would absolutely expect that tensions would produce violence, but the media is currently reporting recent killings as a nation-wide murderous witch hunt of police officers. Being killed is a risk that is associated with being a police officer. That's why we respect them so much. That's why, in almost all of these cases, the victimized officer was killed while performing his normal duties. The killings of the two NYPD officers come to mind, when a crazy person killed two cops for retaliation. That's a terrible story, and it was a national tragedy. But that's not representative of the national state, or a growing trend, by any current measurement. I think its irresponsible for CNN to run constant coverage of an officer that killed as a way to provide contrast to killings by police officers. Lets keep it real, that's what they're doing. People across the country are angry at law enforcement, and that scares a lot of people. They demonstrate that fear by saying things like "blue lives matter", as if they're society's victims. Its just not true.

How dare you spread the myth of evilution...

Its been actually pretty common on this forum...at least the celebration of "thugs" being killed. Not sure if anyone here has taken it the step further, though...

Well, if you total the amount of people calling for "thugs" to be killled...I'm not sure if it even comes close... Encouraging violence is always a bad thing. But that mentality is in no way one sided.

That's the qualification for "traffic related" that I was using, yes. Even so, gunfire deaths are falling by rather large percentages... Trust me, I hear ya. I would be willing to believe that tensions lead to violence, but there's just not any evidence that points to it in this case. And as for people chanting about death to police officers, that was one rally out of probably thousands across the country. Its being replayed on Fox News again and again and again to push that narrative. Its exactly what I was talking about with irresponsible journalism. Ignore national statistics, and push a false narrative as a fake national issue. Police deaths, specifically firearm deaths, are lower since any of this tension started. That shouldn't be a harsh truth that defeat someone's point, we should be celebrating it. There have been protests where people have called for the president to be killed, but we don't let that represent the tea party. That's not a standard that we hold to any other group in America, other than an organization that is protesting the violence being committed against them... You were absolutely right about the effects of irresponsible journalism in the other thread, but here it is. Exactly what you were talking about.

You're absolutely right, propoganda is not meant to be as factual as possible. Its mean to be persuasive. This video reminds me a lot of the time leading up to the Iraq war. All they had to do was say "Saddamn Hussein" and "9/11" in the same sentence, while not directly associating the two, and all of a sudden the majority of the country believed Saddam Hussein was responsible for the attack. This video shows you news coverage of police shootings, and then tells you statistics about officers being killed. It doesn't directly equate the two, but you're left to believe that they're related. Its the oldest propaganda trick in the book. Don't take me linking evidence as "hah, gotcha". I didn't link to it in the first place and I should have. Its also possible that different research could produce different results, so take it with a grain of salt. http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/?referrer=https://www.google.com/ And at the end there, you're questing natural human behavior. If evidence from BLM was faulty, of course I would be less inclined to criticize them for it. You do it too, of course. If you see pro-police propoganda, you'd be less inclined to call them out on sketchy statistics. That's just human nature. But also, there's no evidence to support the idea that police are in more danger now because of recent events. As you've said from the beginning, irresponsible journalism plays a big role in the public's perception of events. You've said before that there is not an issue of racial disparity, but instead an angle within media coverage that leads people to believe that there is. That's exactly what is happening with coverage of shootings of police officers. Although I don't want to get into it again, I've shown you statistics about racial disparities in the justice system. So at least if BLM misrepresents that information in order to push a narrative, their core message is supported by evidence. Videos like this on the other hand, are everything wrong about the BLM movement without that evidenced-based core message. That's the key difference.

Its definitely a "feel good" video, but just for the sake of whats right... Police fatalities are actually at a decline. There's a lot of press covering officer fatalities lately, but no matter how scary the stories are in the news, they're still going down. And that's a great thing. You don't have to show respect for police while at the same time falsely representing the current dangerous of their job. And it's true that an officer dies every 58 hours, but the majority of those deaths are traffic or accident related. But the beginning portion of the video misleads you into thinking that shootings are the #1 cause. We should be talking about how to keep our officers safe on our roads instead of drumming up fear about police shootings, because statistically speaking, that's not the greatest threat to officers in the past, and especially not now. And even their statistic about assaults on police officers isn't entirely truthful, since apparently those numbers are down as well. They don't include those things because, again, its a feel-good video. Its meant to tell a certain narrative, and to appeal to the emotions of an already sympathetic audience. While this video is meant to gain respect for police officers and that's an overall positive message, I think it is very misleading in not only the information that it presents, but also the way in which it presents it. I feel like a dick for pointing all of this out, but I've seen a lot of facebook videos like this. It is totally fine to approach police topics with the angle of "how do we protect officers", and that should be a part of every conversation about police matters. But there's no reason why the conversation has to start on facts that are misrepresented. Just my two cents.

That would be a great feature. Either the officer is in danger and needs backup, or he's overreacting and needs backup to diffuse the situation.

Shoot first, ask questions later. I don't know if there's ever been a more clear example of that.

Very true...what a (literally) senseless loss.

Most police deaths are traffic related, whats stopping them from fixing this issue? Is it just assumed that a certain number of cops are going to die on the side of the highway, or is there anything we can do?

Pardon my French... But what a fucking asshole...

Someone else was saying that, not you. Yeah, I think its possible that the currently level of media attention could have a negative impact on how police officers perform their job. But it still seems like a secondary issue, since the original issue was questioning them killing us. It just seems kinda disingenuous to flip the conversation in order to prioritize how the media coverage of police killings is affecting police. But still, of course we have to keep our cops safe. Everyone can agree on that. I definitely would like to see research into the effects of media attention on police safety.

I had no problem coming to the conclusion that they are chanting that because they're being treated as if their lives don't matter. Maybe that's a difference in perspective, but I can't see how anyone could reach another conclusion, and still hold firm on their original impression even after someone has explained the real merits of the movement to them. I know exactly the case you're talking about, and there's a perfectly logical reason why there isn't a "white lives matter" movement. Don't in any way take this as an argument, because its more of a cultural discussion. White Lives Matter does not exist because white people are still at the top of the social ladder. Try not to freak out when you hear this, but white privilege is a real thing. Combine all the statistics we've seen about disproportionate arrests, shootings, killings, etc. Even if you don't believe that research is accurate, bear with me. Do you really think that after hundreds of years of slavery, segregation, lynching, etc, that we were suddenly able to do away with racism in our society? I'm not just talkign about individual racist people, but I'm talking about systemic racism in our culture. Its not a question of whether or not "cops are racist", but more that justice, from top to bottom, is not blind. White Lives Matter doesn't exist because its a given that white lives have always mattered. Do you really think that white druggies in Beverly Hills are being roughed up by police in the same way that black people are in the hoods of Baltimore? No way, we all know that isn't the case, and its just something that we accept. I mean these are all things that we know exist, but when we bring it up in the context of police brutality, people lose their minds and pretend that these things don't exist. I've always believed that the problem isn't a matter of individual racist cops, but that its a cultural problem we've yet to address. So now back to the case of the white kid that was killed. The existence of a White Lives Matter movement is to suggest that white people are the overall victims in our society, and if you look at things like the criminal justice system, as well as the lasting effects of our country's history, that's just not the case. What it sounds like happened in the case you mentioned is a cop freaked out when the car started driving and shot the kid. That's a terrible thing and it didn't have to happen, but in the grand scheme of things, its not a symptom of a larger racial problem, or a cultural disregard of "white life".

No I don't think that officers should allow that to happen, but I don't think its an example of how movements like BLM are calling for officers to be killed, as someone else alluded to.

Unless people of color are disproportionately arrested. http://www.sentencingproject.org/images/photo/12_lifetime_likelihood_race.png Everyones alive, and the suspect will serve hard time for the crime he committed. Sounds like a working justice system. It's a fairly broad request, because its a fairly broad problem. How about you don't subdue Garner, since all he was doing was selling untaxed cigarettes after breaking up a fight? Both Eric Garner and Freddie Gray died because their arresting officers ignored their pain. Those are just high profile cases. If someone is begging for air, I'd expect people who's job it is to "serve and protect" to make sure he's OK, instead of continuing to choke him out with a banned and lethal chokehold. Glad we agree. #s 6 and 7 tie together, so stay with me. (and FYI, that was during the civil rights movment, not slavery) So the protesters were part of the "I am a man" demonstrations. By holding signs that said, "I am a man", they were reminding people that they are human beings, because they're being treated as if they're not. The signs don't say "white people are men too" because white people are being treated like human beings. The signs don't mention the humanity of white people because white people at that time were at the top of the social ladder. Now, decades later, we have the Black Lives Matter movement. By saying "Black Lives Matter", they are reminding people that they are human beings, because they're being treated as if they're not. They're not saying "white lives matter too" because white people are being treated like human beings. The signs don't mention the humanity of white people because white people are still (according to them) at the top of the social ladder. So plop anyone from this forum back in the 60s, and you would be the guys shouting "WHITE PEOPLE ARE MEN TOO" at the I am a Man protesters. Its very important that you know the historical background to the BLM movement. Organizations like Fox News are twisting their message to say "only black lives matter", when that's not at ALL what they're saying. Say whatever you will about the movement, but you should know what they really stand for before essentially accusing them to be a black supremacy group.

More incarcerations doesn't mean more crime, it means more arrests. If anything that shows that black people are disproportionately arrested, which is already proven to be true. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/01/black-americans-killed-by-police-analysis Remind me again how that was a bad outcome? No one was killed, the suspect was caught and is going to serve hard time. We respect police so much because they sacrifice their safety to protect the community, not because they drive around shooting people at their own digression. When that officer refused to shoot, he gave up some of his safety because he didn't want to kill someone. Whatever his reasons were for doing that, he deserves a medal. I find it strange that you're pointing to a case of incredible bravery on the part of an officer as a symptom of a larger problem. Limiting use of force means....limiting use of force. The Eric Garner case is a perfect example of that. BLM is saying that police have a tendency to use too much force....so they should use less. Hey I have an idea, how about when someone says they can't breathe, stop doing an illegal lethal choke hold on them? Or is it still the victims fault because he's fat? Why not force an entire movement to go through police training and law classes before exercising their first amendment rights? Hmm.... Let me ask you something. Are these protesters saying that white people aren't men? Their policy positions are extremely moderate, I find it a little scary that you hate them that much.... And I'm also amused that nearly everyone on this forum has completely missed the point of the movement, but everyone still remains very confident that they understand it. Sigh...

You're still missing the point entirely. Black people and minorities are killed at disproportionate rates. I'm not going to debate that with you, its a fact. They're asking for use of force policies be CHANGED to limit when and to what extent force can be used. "Well there's already guidelines established" is a redundant thing to say, because that's the whole point of the movement. To CHANGE policies. And come on, you know they're not asking for "an exception". What officers have been killed because they were too scared to act because of the media? You completely just pulled that out of your ass. In nearly all of the controversial cases of police killings, there was not a legitimate threat towards the officer. So in all of those cases, the officer would be alive. See but that's the problem, we can't really entirely on split second decisions to decide whether or not a human being gets to live. Look at the Tamir Rice case, they drove right up to a possibly armed person, and gunned a 12 year old boy down in literally two seconds. That's not a split second decision, that's a pattern of recklessness and disregard for human life. Look at the Eric Garner case, that also wasn't a split second decision. Garner pleaded for his life for an extended period of time before ultimately dying. Not every situation is "a suspect reaches quickly into his jacket, is he reaching for a gun or his ID?". If that were the case, everyone would understand how tough of a situation that is. There are countless cases where if the officers showed more restraint, both they and the citizen would still be alive. The reason why we respect police so much is because they sacrifice their own safety to protect our communities. If they're overly aggressive and paranoid, it gets unarmed citizens killed. That's counter productive to the very reason that we have police in the first place. If the standard for killing a citizen is a perceived threat, then it is not at all a radical position to ask that they improve or re-evaluate their perception skills. Oh, please. That's a standard that I'm willing to bet that you don't apply to any other movement. I'm willing to bet you don't think pro-life activists should conduct a mock abortion before having the audacity to stand up for what they believe in. What you're really saying in that paragraph is that it pisses you off to see people question an organization that you hold to a high regard. Listen, I don't care if you or anyone supports or doesn't support BLM. But lets be clear about what their positions are, because there's not going to be an actual discussion about the issue if everyone is believing the lies being told about them.

I'm sorry but...we're talking about the same list, right? None of those things kill officers. What case law are you referring to? But yeah, the whole point of the movement is that they're asking for policy changes, so it's not an argument to say "well the actions of the police are justified by policies". They know that. That's the problem, and why they're asking for policies to be changed. Their list is very practical and do-able, and a lot of departments are currently ushering in one or more of those changes. They're asking for those changes nation-wide, that's the only difference. And limiting use of force doesn't necessarily make an officer less safe. The kind of brutality and killing we're seeing isn't being done to people that are a legitimate lethal threat. They're asking that the safety of citizens has to be made more of a priority, which is literally the job description of the police. Their policy positions are very mutually beneficial.

Did....you read them? I don't see sacrificing cops on the list.... http://www.businessinsider.com/black-lives-matter-has-a-policy-platform-2015-8