Riley24

Could I do a better job of choking someone for no reason? I hope not. How in any way did Eric Garner pick a fight with the police? Garner just finished breaking up a fight in his own neighborhood when he was harassed by police for selling loose cigarettes (I live in NYC, I'm pretty sure jaywalking is a worse offense). As much as I respect your knowledge of martial arts, its completely irrelevant. Garner should never have been in that chokehold to begin with. Resisting arrest is not cause for brutality or wreckless endangerment. And what arrest was Garner resisting? What was he under arrest for? Here in America, if you talk back and don't follow orders, it may get you killed. That is the precedent you're setting by blaming the victim. Or you could skip all of that and stop harassing people. But that's the option that's never allowed, always use force if someone is pissed at you for being harassed. So its not the police's fault someone in their custody died of a heart attack in response to an altercation that was instigated by the police? So on one hand "hey he was fat, what're you gonna do?", and "If only he'd taken the harassment with more class, he wouldn't have died" on the other. And oh I know, I'm sure I'm twisting your words. But that IS in essence what you're saying. Actually, I'm playing the fat card. Lets say Chris Christie or Peter King have been harassed by police all their lives, and they finally get sick of it and decide to resist a false arrest in a fit of anger. They get choked and their head gets smothered into the pavement. They keep telling the police that they can't breathe. They die of a heart attack in the ambulance. Does any part of you think that Breitbart starts running stories saying "Well it was Chris Christie's fault, he was fat". Would you be sitting here telling me how Peter King killed himself because he resisted arrest? There's plenty of people committing misdemeanors on Wall Street, and a lot of them are unhealthy. How many of them have been choked and arrested for it? If you can't see that the death of Eric Garner is more than a one-off random concurrence, then I'm sorry, but you're totally missing the whole point. This is basic sociology.

Am I only supposed to reply if I agree with Breitbart? That's pretty counter-intuitive to the whole point of having an internet forum. So we can clearly see in the video that he's using a choke hold. Even if he's trying to do a blood choke, he's failing, and endangering Eric Garner's life. We also can't tell how forcefully the officer pressed against his neck, but I'm guessing it wasn't a gentle squeeze. And you're saying that the officer was failing to do a blood choke, but yet also failing in a chokehold enough that Garner can still breathe? So it just happens that he dies of a heart attack in the ambulance after being tackled, choked, and smothered against the pavement? That's a load of crap, and it comes from a pretty dark place. Its the same "Whatever you do, don't believe a word they say" mentality that also lead to the death of Freddie Gray. Eric Garner's death was ruled a homicide, not a random heart attack. Breitbart would love nothing more than to dismiss it and say "Eh, he was fat. Fat people have heart attacks sometimes", without even considering the parameters of negligent homicide. I'm sure if the same thing happened to Chris Christie or Peter King while they were jaywalking or something, his website would be listing all the reasons why it was their fault for having a heart attack. Right...? No, I'm guessing there would be a slightly different tone to that story. At the core of police reform is asking for human decency. They showed none to Eric Garner. Please explain to me how Eric Garner's death was not negligent homicide.

"The chokehold that Patrolman Daniel Pantaleo put on Garner was reported to have contributed to his death. But Garner, who was 6-foot-3 and weighed 350 pounds, suffered from a number of health problems, including heart disease, severe asthma, diabetes, obesity, and sleep apnea. Pantaleo's attorney and police union officials argued that Garner's poor health was the main cause of his death." "Garner did not die at the scene of the confrontation. He suffered cardiac arrest in the ambulance taking him to the hospital and was pronounced dead about an hour later." So if you're fat and they choke you until the point that you have a heart attack and die, that's OK? Anyone here with health issues, be sure you behave. " At issue in this case is the so-called “chokehold” used by Pantaleo. Chokeholds have been banned by the NYPD entirely since 1993; chokeholds are typically defined as holds that prevent people from breathing. Thanks to the video showing Garner stating that he cannot breathe, many pundits have wrongly suggested that Pantaleo was “choking” Garner by depriving him of air from his windpipe. Bratton himself suggested that Pantaleo used a “chokehold,” which is defined by the NYPD as “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” That does not appear to have been the case. Garner did not die of asphyxiation, as the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association noted at the time. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones." So Pantaleo didn't use a chokehold because asphyxiation wasn't the cause of death? Not that I expect better journalism from Breitbart. Maybe Eric Garner pleading for air in his final moments is a better indication of whether or not the wrist pressed up against his throat was making it difficult to breathe.

Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but I saw a few foot blows to the head near the end of the video, after he's already in cuffs with two cops on top of him... I'm not one to criticize technique in a wrestling match, but once someone is in handcuffs, that's it. No more punching or kicking.

I don't blame the camera guy though, as obnoxious as it was. It seemed like he was having a good time enjoying the show until it got ugly. Not sure if its hypocritical to be honest, since most people have a negative reaction to seeing someone being kicked in the head after they're in handcuffs...

Politics is a spectrum. Where do you think the Nazis are on that spectrum?

Pardon me, but if you want to reference an article for use as evidence, you look up the link. Why is it my job to go digging for some article that you read at some point? Thats absurd. Wait...you totally just made that up. How do you know that the officer didn't see the race of the driver? You took a legitimate DOJ study and then added that last part. That part wasn't in any of the evidence. The evidence shows that minorities have less confidence in the police. Can you blame them? The study doesn't suggest anything, its saying what exists. The DOJ isn't making cultural observations, they're reporting on statistics gathered by the justice department. We seem to agree that we're living in a society that has endured centuries of brutal discrimination, so I find it fascinating that you call it "pulling the race card". Do you not think that institutional racism still exists? That once segregation ended, that we live in an equal society? Because all the evidence that I've shown you proves the contrary. Thankfully, killings of police officers are decreasing rather sharply. You seem to have a classic case of the "GI Joe mentality". We don't live in a world of good guys vs. bad guys. The police are not the victims of our society. Yes, police officers are killed from time to time and it is tragic. But I find it incredibly fascinating that you agree that racism exists, yet you're completely opposed to addressing its current manifestations.

I'm not insinuating it, its true. http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/ And I don't know the DOJ study that you're talking about, but here's one that I found that I would recommend:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/pbtss11rpa11pr.cfm I'm not going to argue with you or anyone about this, because that's how people get further entrenched in their pre-conceived ideas. But, I love cultural discussions. I don't think its just because of police conduct or just because of slavery. Just 50 years ago, black people were being blasted with water cannons in the streets in their struggle for equality. That isn't ancient history. I mean from a historical perspective, black people have been enslaved, tortured, mass murdered, lynched, and denied human rights. And since then, we've been waging a war on drugs, we've privatized prison, and we've legalized the bribery of politicians. All of those things have helped keep minority Americans down. I honestly think its absurd that after all that, the biggest problem could be a lack of respect for cops. We know that minorities don't have the same experience as white people, and we shouldn't feel defensive about that. We should work to remedy that problem.

Ok, I'll explain it more. Lets use another example. There are more poor white people than poor black people, but a larger percentage of black people are poor. Now back to shootings. While more white people are killed, their deaths are proportionate to their population, and that isn't the case for minorities. This is the part that kept you from understanding the proportions argument. Its not despite, its because. Of course more white people are killed, because there are more white people. But that doesn't mean that killings of minorities are proportionate to their population in the country.

This actually isn't a third world country, we don't punish all crimes with death. Even assaulting a police officer is a crime that is punishable by a jail sentence, not a death penalty. And again, its not a matter of how many vs. how many, its a matter of proportions. Here's just one example of proven racial disparity in our justice system: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0 Here's another: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/07/california-police-shootings-database-racial-disparity One more: http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white Sorry, I lied. Last one: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/15/charting-the-shocking-rise-of-racial-disparity-in-our-criminal-justice-system/ I'm a sociology student. One of the things that you learn as a sociology student is the difference between a personal trouble and a public issue. Its impossible to look at this much evidence and say "Well, if people get shot by cops, that's their problem". When its happening to so many people in such a similar way, its a public issue. The reality is is that there is a system in place that has created this disparity.

Riight, but there are more white people in the country than black people. Its not a matter of total number of white people vs. total number of black people, its about proportions.

Just going by nationwide drug arrest statistics and things like stop and frisk, its obvious that race plays a significant factor. Its not even a debate worth having really, its in the numbers. I guess the next question should be "why" or "what can we do about it". One of my favorite Bill O'Reilly talking points. Right up there with "the breakdown of the family" and "where are the fathers?". It seems that the concerns from conservatives about "black on black crime" fades away as soon as there's a lull between killings of unarmed black people by police officers. Hmmm...why could that be?

True. But there's definitely a racial element to it.

Wait, poor black people have a different experience with the justice system than average white people? I'm shocked...

I guess every crime is punishable by death as long as you have a gun. Apparently that's how our justice system works...?

Yes, unfortunately they do happen from time to time. But man, that NYPD one hit home. We really felt that one here.

Either this is going to be totally lackluster, or its going to fall apart in production. Maybe I'm just a pessimist, but it doesn't seem like they'll be able to deliver with the lack of funds and manpower they have. I hope I'm wrong though.

The authors of Police Mod literally said that it was to be used until LSPDFR came out. That was an awesome thing of them to do, but its not LSPDFR....

Any chance for better AI pullovers? Still stopping in the middle of the road. But I'm looking forward to v0.3, sounds great.

Clear Whelen Liberties and Arjents

Marriage equality ruling in the Supreme Court.

Which cases besides the NYPD shooting? I don't think the evidence is enough to point to current events as a broad overarching motive. Its sad that the current social struggle gives some crazy people an excuse to do violence, but I don't think its fair to say that officers killed this year were casualties in that struggle, just on the "other side". I'm not saying you're saying that, but that's the general narrative right now.

Its not really even the numbers that matter. If you're going to assign blame for the deaths of 51 people, you have to be saying that in those cases, the perpetrator's motive was retribution. Otherwise, I don't see how the tensions could be responsible for that increase.

See but the "overall rise" is only made up of a few cases of officers being killed. Thankfully, in the broad scope of things, these cases are relatively scarce. So once you start attributing blame for an overall rise, you're just talking about those few cases that are the difference between last year and this one.

This is the only part I can't fully agree with. A lot of people made the argument that the NYPD double murder was a result a recent events, and then begins a conversation about whether or not people who are insane can have clear political motives. But in the end, I don't even think its fair to look at an increase of felonious police deaths and point to current events as a reason for why that's happening. Even if you want to say that the NYPD killing was political and because of recent events, that doesn't mean that any of the other killings of police officers had anything to do with it. If they did, since they're still fairly rare cases, we would've heard about them in-detail as we did with the NYPD case. That's just the feeling I get.