Over the past few weeks, we've seen rising issues with customer service in a few airlines.

 

United Airlines

United Airlines has received immense criticism when a man was bloodied and violently dragged off of a plane. The name of the victim is David Dao, a doctor that was evidently en route to an important surgery from an airport in Chicago. The flight that David was on had been overbooked by the airline, which means that the airline accepted more reservations than actually available. The flight crew had asked for volunteers to leave the plane for compensation. David and his wife initially agreed to take a different flight, but later reversed their decision when they were informed that the next flight wasn't until the following day. No one else on the flight volunteered to give up their seat, so the flight "randomly" chose to evict passengers from the plane, and David was selected. David declared that he wouldn't leave the flight since he paid for the flight, and he stated that he didn't care if he were arrested. After brief verbal exchanges between David and law enforcement, he was eventually removed from the flight with force and suffered a broken nose, concussion, and two of his teeth were knocked out. Officers report that David violently swung at them prior to their aggression. 

 

This incident has sparked outrage across social media, and United Airlines refunded the man and paid him an undisclosed amount of compensation. Since the incident, United Airlines has changed a few of its policies in relevance to overbooking, baggage loss, and improved customer service tools for passengers. In the latest change following the incident, Chicago aviation officials have stated that Chicago police and aviation officers will not board a plane to deal with a customer service dispute. More information can be found at the following links:

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-travel-briefcase-security-officers-20170506-story.html

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyken/2017/05/06/united-airlines-one-month-later/#60117ada3d0b

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/25/us/united-airlines-incident-officers-report/index.html

 

Delta Airlines
The most recent of airline disputes is with Delta Airlines when a man and his family (wife and two babies) were kicked off of a flight. Brian had purchased a seat for their teenage son but he took an earlier flight, leaving the seat vacant but still purchased by the family.  According to NBC News, Brian and his wife had arranged for their 2-year-old son to use the seat purchased for their teenage son. The family had already boarded the flight when Delta officials asked them to simply hold the child and allow another passenger to purchase the seat, rather than put the child in a car seat. David told NBC that they had arranged for their teenage son to take an earlier flight home so that their 2-year-old son could sleep comfortably in his a seat overnight on the flight. David refused to forfeit his seat and was threatened after a brief argument with a flight attendant that their children would be put into a foster home, and they'd go to jail. The flight attendant claimed that it was a federal offense (which is false). Eventually, the family left the plane, as not to escalate the situation, and were forced to purchase a hotel room and new tickets home. 

 

After extreme outrage on social media and news coverage, Delta has apologized to the family and fully refunded them, along with an undisclosed amount of compensation. Delta, however, continues to get a wave of negative reviews on their Facebook and twitter pages. https://www.facebook.com/pg/delta/reviews/

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ibtimes.com/delta-air-lines-breaks-silence-after-kicking-family-babies-flight-watch-2535356

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39814586

 

American Airlines

Another incident with customer service on a plane, this time it's with American Airlines. A woman from Argentina was traveling onboard a plane with her two children when a flight attendant took a stroller from her. The woman cried, asking for the flight attendant to return the stroller to her, and the flight attendant ignored her. The situation escalated when a second passenger intervened to the woman's aid, saying to the flight attendant, "Hey bud, hey bud, you do that to me and I'll knock you flat"! The flight attendant, who was notably angry prior to the entire incident, pointed at the man and said, "Hey, you stay out of this"! The passenger moves from his seat to physically confront the flight attendant and the pilot is seen attempting to calm the flight attendant, who stood his ground. The woman can be heard crying in the background. Airline rules state that passengers must have strollers checked at the gate, and the flight attendant attempted to tell the woman that she needed to have the stroller checked. The woman was trying to jam the stroller down the plane aisle, and the flight attendant took the stroller from her nearly hitting the baby in the face with it. This prompted the incident to escalate as explained. 

 

Since the incident occurred, American Airlines has apologized to the woman and any other passengers they may have affected. The woman decided to take another flight with her children and were upgraded to first-class passengers for the remainder of their trip. American Airlines has removed the flight attendant from duty as they investigate the incident.

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/american-airlines-flight-attendant-grounded-altercation-passengers-captured/story?id=46951873

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dr-gridlock/wp/2017/04/22/american-airlines-suspends-flight-attendant-after-video-captures-confrontation/?utm_term=.1b0ada44e135

 

What are your thoughts on an apparent rise in airline confrontations between passengers and the flight crews?

Edited May 7, 20178 yr by TheDivineHustle

"Hey you stay out of this"! Look I feel bad for the lady, but I'm sorry, the way that flight attendant handled that situation was unprofessional and funny. I laughed so hard at that. But to answer your question, I'm not sure what to think, I don't travel a lot (mainly because I'm poor and in college), but the times I've flown, it was southwest airlines, never had a problem with them. I was bumped one time, but was immediately put on another flight, got out the airport in less than 90 minutes. It seems bias, but I really like southwest, it's affordable and good service, unlike spirit. 

Edited May 7, 20178 yr by TheSandwichStealer

5 minutes ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

I was bumped one time, but was immediately put on another flight, got out the airport in less than 90 minutes. It seems bias, but I really like southwest, it's affordable and good service, unlike spirit. 

 

If I understand correctly, you were bumped and left the airport 90 minutes later? 

 

If I am understanding you correctly, let me ask this: What if someone else was put into your shoes but couldn't afford to be 90 minutes late? Say they need to be at their destination at the time they were originally scheduled, or they had chain flights and the next flight leaves before then? I'd say that's another case of the airline being at fault for overbooking a flight.

2 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

If I understand correctly, you were bumped and left the airport 90 minutes later? 

 

If I am understanding you correctly, let me ask this: What if someone else was put into your shoes but couldn't afford to be 90 minutes late? Say they need to be at their destination at the time they were originally scheduled, or they had chain flights and the next flight leaves before then? I'd say that's another case of the airline being at fault for overbooking a flight.

 

I got there at the airport, checked in, the worker said I was bumped, so I was put on a later flight, I was able to get on another flight in less than 90 minutes. 

 

Now for your other question, I would be mad, but that's never happened to me, so I'm not entirely sure. I definitely think airlines should wait before boarding the plane if it's overbooked, that way no one has to get kicked off. 

I'll add British Airways on to this list.

 

British Airways was known in the UK for being a reasonably good carrier. About two years ago a new CEO has taken over, reducing BA to pretty much a waste-tier airline. They've removed any complimentary drinks or snacks on both domestic and European flights, they fired their entire IT staff last year instead opting to use cheaper overseas staff. Since the staff replacement their checkin system has had persistent issues, and nothing on their site works as it should. They changed how they hire cabin staff, so that it is more difficult to unionize and easier to get rid of them.

They started charging for seat reservations if you haven't bought a hold bag, instead of their old policy of it being free during checkin.

 

My recent horror story is going from Edinburgh > London Heathrow to then take a connecting flight to Amman in Jordan. They completely destroyed my hold bag, the handle went off and the bag is left very badly damaged, scuffed and screws hanging out. This was a bag that's been through most of Europe, to the States and even to Japan without any issues, and it was practically destroyed on a domestic flight.

Upon trying to get someone to take notice at BA in Heathrow, they refused to issue any reference number regarding the damage, instead pointing to an online form. Filled in this form then got a reply I should have gotten a reference number.

I asked BA staff if taking my 2 USB battery chargers would be okay due to new laws forbidden certain electronics on flights from Jordan. They assured me this would be fine. Upon returning from Jordan they told me I had to throw the chargers away since they couldn't go in the hold or in the cabin. They are clearly cutting corners in regards to their customer service.

 

If you look at the airline reviews for British Airways you can see it's pretty much junk-tier now. It's a shame because this is the airline that pioneered using the Concorde and supersonic travel, and always cared about customers, and now it's trash that myself and numerous others will never use again.

 

I think airlines are starting to realize they can treat us all like crap, that they don't need to be nice, because there is no alternative.

I've only flown Jet Blue and Delta (once). Only issue I had with Jet Blue was the flight being cancelled as I arrived at the airport due to a mechanical issue with the plane. The next available flight to my destination (Jacksonville) was the next day, which was unfortunate, but they compensated me for the trouble. I'd rather have to wait until the next day than fly on a broken plane. I believe they offered to check with other airlines but I didn't want to deal with that. They also compensated me for my plane sitting on the tarmac for about 2 hours after landing in Chicago last year. There were thunderstorms delaying all of the departures before we landed so it wasn't really their fault.

 

There is no reason to have overbooking issues with them because you pick your seat when you buy the ticket. If you don't pick the seat when you buy it, then you can pick it online at any point before the flight. If you still didn't pick it before getting to the airport, you can pick it when you get your boarding pass. If, for whatever reason, you STILL did not pick your seat, one will get assigned to you at the gate.

Air France isn't any better for that. Actually, it's even worse, let me explain you why.

 

Context: parents divorced when I was a baby, mom got to keep me, I was visiting the dad during holidays and such. Long distance travel, first I was taking the train (as a kid (roughly 6-8 years old)), then I was taking the plane (was faster + getting cheaper). Kids traveling in transports (train or plane) are traveling with a flight attendant specifically taking care of those kids, so they wouldn't get lost or anything, a bit like a teacher accompanying his class during a school trip.

 

One day, I was taking the plane for the holidays. Got into the plane, put to my seat by the flight attendant. Everything was fine. Then, me and a few other kids got dragged out of the plane. We waited for 3 hours, in a single, small waiting room, on uncomfortable seats, without anything to do to pass the time, for them to put us in another plane, who brought us to a different airport to the one we were supposed to go to. I learned when I was older that it was because the company overbooked the plane, but instead of offloading adults who could complain or refuse, they chose to board out kids who didn't even know what was happening. Disgusting.

Airlines need to stop overbooking flights, its a ridiculous practice. People PAY for their seat, and they overbook in case people don't show up. But you don't get your money back if you don't show up to your flight, so why overbook? The airline is getting their money regardless. They're screwing over people to make an extra buck.

There is actually a legitimate reason why airlines overbook, it's simply better for business, the videos below will explain that. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

There is actually a legitimate reason why airlines overbook, it's simply better for business, the videos below will explain that. 

 

I appreciate the links, but clearly, their reasoning and systems in place aren't working. We've seen countless conflictions with this overbooking crap that airlines like to pull, and I still think it's completely ridiculous. If I paid for a seat, that seat is mine whether I show up or not. They still have my money, and them trying to predict whether or not I'll show up just so that they can resell the seat is greed. Them trying to sell the seat twice by predicting whether or not I'll actually make my flight is them being greedy to make an extra buck, as Riley24 said. I continue to stand against the airlines with this because it's corrupt and it's bad treatment to their customers. They already made the money, they're just trying to go double, and it's greedy.

Edited May 8, 20178 yr by TheDivineHustle

5 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

There is actually a legitimate reason why airlines overbook, it's simply better for business, the videos below will explain that. 

 

There's a reason. But it's definitely not legitimate. Overbooking planes is stupid and puts everyone in a bad spot. Except the airlines company because, you know. Money matters more than actual, living people.

Okay, you people clearly did not watch the video, I'll elaborate further now. One of the biggest reasons why airlines overbook is to reduce ticket prices, that's not to say that airlines are altruistic or humble. Airlines in the past and today are constantly trying to find ways to get the most money for each seat and  the reason for that is the one I just stated. This is simply in response to the large majority of consumers who want one thing, cheaper flights. And the more money a company can get out of overbooking, the cheaper a company can make their flights and the more competition there is. 

 

Also, it is legitimate, largely depending on the airport. Let's say someone is taking a flight from Bangor, Maine to Washington, DC, in this situation, an airline has no reason to overbook, because there are no trains and no buses that go in that direction, plane or car is your only viable option. Now, lets say someone is leaving from Chicago to Dallas or some other location. There are so many ways a person could go, train, bus, maybe even a taxi (if the driver is willing  that is). With these options,  sometimes it's  really no big deal if a person misses their flight, because there are options available. 

 

Lastly, you people are exaggerating this, it's not like everyday, tens n thousands of people are bumped off their flights, did you know that in the year 2013, Jetblue airways only had to bump 18 out of 21 million people? That is extremely low. Bottom line, the money that airlines pay each year to compensate those 500,00 people that are bumped is far less than the millions they lose out on not overbooking, unless you're united, then it becomes major PR disaster. 

 

Look, even to this day, airlines are still constantly trying to improve there models so that they can sell these nonexistent seats safely. In the year 1990,  16/10000 passengers were bumped from their flights. In the year 2017, that number has reduced to 9/10000, and with smarter programs, that number will get smaller.

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by TheSandwichStealer

9/10000 is already 9 too much. That number should be 0/10000, period. Saying that "companies overbook to make plane tickets cheaper" is just buying the lies they're telling people to justify their disgusting actions. As mentioned above, whether you show up or not, THE TICKET IS PAID. The company gets its money. The income for the company is the same, therefore the price of the plane tickets should be identical, since the situation is identical whether the passenger shows up or not. Better: if the passenger paid, but doesn't show up, the plane still takes off, with 1 less passenger, which means less food/drinks to distribute in the cabin, and less fuel used to fly the plane due to the weight difference, while still keeping the money of that missing passenger. So they even gain money from it, they don't lose any. Trying to double sell a seat is just being greedy, so they can have pretty numbers to show to the board of directors to make shareholders happy.

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by Hystery

10 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

 

Also, it is legitimate, largely depending on the airport. Let's say someone is taking a flight from Bangor, Maine to Washington, DC, in this situation, an airline has no reason to overbook, because there are no trains and no buses that go in that direction, plane or car is your only viable option. Now, lets say someone is leaving from Chicago to Dallas or some other location. There are so many ways a person could go, train, bus, maybe even a taxi (if the driver is willing  that is). With these options,  sometimes it's  really no big deal if a person misses their flight, because there are options available. 

 

Look, even to this day, airlines are still constantly trying to improve there models so that they can sell these nonexistent seats safely. In the year 1990,  16/10000 passengers were bumped from their flights. In the year 2017, that number has reduced to 9/10000, and with smarter programs, that number will get smaller.

 

 

 

 

4

I understand the reason, but you're missing one important factor:

 

If I paid for the seat, it's my seat. There is no question or discussion about it. There's no reason at all why I should be kicked off of a flight because the airline sold my seat because they thought I wouldn't make the flight. I (and clearly most other Americans) don't care about their reason. If someone is being booted from a plane seat that they purchased, there's a problem with customer service whether the airline has a reason or not.

Quote

Okay, you people clearly did not watch the video, I'll elaborate further now. One of the biggest reasons why airlines overbook is to reduce ticket prices, that's not to say that airlines are altruistic or humble. Airlines in the past and today are constantly trying to find ways to get the most money for each seat and  the reason for that is the one I just stated. This is simply in response to the large majority of consumers who want one thing, cheaper flights. And the more money a company can get out of overbooking, the cheaper a company can make their flights and the more competition there is. 

 

 

 

 

1

 

So you're trying to tell me that overbooking 18 out of 21 million people somehow decreased the price of plane tickets for everyone? Even if there was a decrease, I sincerely doubt that it was a decrease of any significance. 18 people had to deal with garbage from the airline, and that's worth far more than (presumably) a few cents off a plane ticket. I'm willing to pay a few extra cents or dollars if it means that someone doesn't get booted from a flight that they paid to take.

 

What if I'm traveling the country to attend a funeral of a passed family member? The airlines compensate you for overbooking (which until now was a pretty low amount) but I don't care about the compensation, I need to get to that funeral. No amount of money that you give me, personally, will be worth missing the funeral of a family member or loved one. Or maybe I am a doctor and I am traveling because I need to conduct an important surgery. I need to be there on time, I can't be there late, and overbooking just caused the individual to lose their life because I couldn't make it on time. Or I have chain flights, and now since I missed the first flight, I've missed every flight after.

 

My problem is that people are forced to leave the plane if it's overbooked. If someone volunteers to leave that's fine, that's their decision. But you can't force me off the plane because you overbooked, that's wrong.

Quote

Lastly, you people are exaggerating this, it's not like everyday, tens n thousands of people are bumped off their flights, did you know that in the year 2013, Jetblue airways only had to bump 18 out of 21 million people? That is extremely low. Bottom line, the money that airlines pay each year to compensate those 500,00 people that are bumped is far less than the millions they lose out on not overbooking, unless you're united, then it becomes major PR disaster. 

 

 

 

 

2

 

 

 

That's 18 people that were kicked off of a flight and had their schedules inconvenienced, 18 too many. The situation would be different if it were some sort of airline error or accident, but the airlines bumped the passengers on purpose, knowing exactly what they were doing. They were trying to be greedy, and their assumptions on attendance were incorrect and caused people to miss their originally intended flights. That's not acceptable, and it's ridiculous that even 18 out of 21 million had to deal with poor customer service due to greed.

 

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by TheDivineHustle

Using JetBlue as an example doesn't really work because they have a no-overbooking policy. Their "involuntary denial" numbers have increased since 2013 though, which they have attributed to growing their A321 fleet. If a scheduled A321 has some sort of maintenance problem, and they need to substitute it with a smaller A320, some people are going to get bumped because of the smaller plane.

 

But generally if a plane has 150 seats, JetBlue only sells 150 tickets.

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

(http://crankyflier.com/2016/12/26/for-an-airline-that-doesnt-overbook-jetblue-sure-is-bumping-a-lot-of-travelers/ might not be the best source, but it's an interesting read)

 

 

Also, if you look at that chart, 359,376 people were denied boarding (whether voluntary or involuntary) in the first 9 months of 2016 with those 12 airlines. That is much larger than the 18 that was used earlier. You could probably find an annual report somewhere with updated numbers if you want to have an actual debate with actual facts. Research.

 

There. I did it for you. https://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/air-travel-consumer-reports-2016

 

I'll even do the math. ~.073% were denied boarding.

 

.072% for the year:

 

Spoiler

https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/resources/individuals/aviation-consumer-protection/278481/2017-april-atcr.pdf

 

Please note I am not sharing an opinion here. Only facts.

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by willpv23
This has like 100 edits.

I'll admit using Jetblue was a poor example, but to say that 18 out 21 million is too many  people that were bumped is highly exaggerated.

 

Now I fully agree that if you have already  boarded the plane, taken your seat and settled in, you should not be kicked off. Also to say that one less person on a plane saves fuel is so ignorant, there are so many factors that come into play when dealing with aerodynamics and fuel consumption. Here are some links to that: https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/range.html

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-weight-on-passenger-airliners-affect-fuel-usage-and-flight-time

 

Also, it is not some lie or grand conspiracy that airlines are trying to make there tickets cheaper. Airlines are constantly trying to find ways to make their tickets cheaper, because they know the number one determiner for someone wanting to fly is cheaper ticket prices. That's not to say that airlines are humble, but it's business and they will do almost anything to gain competitive advantage. 

 

@TheDivineHustle I completely agree that you should not be kicked off the plane, which is why there should be a system that determines whether or not a flight will enough seats before the people board. It's worth noting though that in united's case, overbooking wasn't the problem, the problem was that the four pilots did not take earlier flights and forced another flight to give up seats for them, not only that, but the pilots did not match the price the customer paid for the tickets. 

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by TheSandwichStealer

2 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

Also to say that one less person on a plane saves fuel is so ignorant, there are so many factors that come into play when dealing with aerodynamics and fuel consumption. Here are some links to that: https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/k-12/airplane/range.html

https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-the-weight-on-passenger-airliners-affect-fuel-usage-and-flight-time

 

Hm, I'm sorry, but if anything, you're the one being ignorant. The slightest change of weight can have an impact on fuel consumption when taking off and gaining altitude. There are many factors coming into play when dealing with fuel consumption, and weight is one of them. If you want an in-depth article about that, and how peanuts bags weight can save airlines money, feel free to read this: https://www.wired.com/2012/09/how-can-airlines-reduce-fuel-costs/

@Hystery There is quite a bit of guessing in that article. She makes some good points, but saying removing one bag of peanuts from ONE plane will be significant in saving it fuel, I just don't believe that. 

 

A more through article: http://newsroom.united.com/news-releases?item=124155&mobile=No

Edited May 9, 20178 yr by TheSandwichStealer

4 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

 but saying removing one bag of peanuts from ONE plane will be significant in saving it fuel, I just don't believe that. 

 

Made me lol, good point you have there. I'd like to know the specifics of the science behind it.

4 hours ago, Hystery said:

 

Hm, I'm sorry, but if anything, you're the one being ignorant. The slightest change of weight can have an impact on fuel consumption when taking off and gaining altitude. There are many factors coming into play when dealing with fuel consumption, and weight is one of them. If you want an in-depth article about that, and how peanuts bags weight can save airlines money, feel free to read this: https://www.wired.com/2012/09/how-can-airlines-reduce-fuel-costs/

 

He kinda does have a good point with that.

I actually think a good parallel can be drawn between the 'rise' of airline issues and police brutality claims.   We are presented these stories of airline problems through the media all in a short time frame.  Is it really that none of these issues have ever happened before?  Or, is it that now, suddenly the media wants to report on it.  It's amazing how the news and social media can cause people to think that there is an imminent issue.  Imagine for a moment, that CNN suddenly made it their mission to report on every time a hospital messed up and killed a patient because of the wrong medication.  How long would it take for people to be outraged and think that things suddenly changed in our hospitals.  

 

The same goes for police brutality.  If you only report on the .01% of police interactions that go bad, naturally people will suddenly think there is a huge problem.  Right now, airline employees are the new police for CNN...finally they found someone else to blame.  If only the general public didn't trust everything they see on TV...