What do you think?

Not an advocate of it, primarily because I'm not an advocate of those dogs. Rottweilers and Pit Bulls are unpredictable breeds. They were selectively bred for fighting by the Germans & English respectively, without regard to what their temperament might be like. Considering they are extremely muscular and were bred to expend energy via fighting, these dogs need constant exercise to help calm them, but even if they get that, dogs that have lived with families for years have attacked their owners or their owners kids at random, sometimes resulting in death. They do not have the obedience of a German Shepherd or the nose of a hound dog. Because of their personality quirks and physical traits; I feel they pose more of a danger to the officers than an asset.
 

I'd suggest you watch the whole video, it's not long. Skip to :51 if you want to see what the cop knocking on the door saw (what it's like to be attacked in first person view). Both body cam views are important, however. This was an owner who specifically owned nothing but pit bulls and they were supposedly well tempered dogs. The cop did nothing but knock on the door gently and say "police department". That got him attacked because the owner didn't bother to put the dogs away, and his claims to them being good dogs are bull****.
 

Police were minding their own business. Dog decided to just go rush a group of innocent people, which in this case happened to be armed.
 

This one's a bit hard to watch. This is in the UK where the police officers do not carry guns. They're virtually powerless to stop the dog, so all the officer can do for a while is scream in agony and try to stay on his feet; not an easy task with a dog that heavy and muscular.
 

Animal Control; people who deal with these dogs professionally can't even control them. This poor man could have had his face torn off by three dogs, were it not to the excellent shooting skills (with a shotgun no less) of a police officer nearby.
 

A 6 year old girl gets mauled by 2-3 pit bulls Cops arrive and shoot them all dead. No audio in this dash cam footage, sorry. You'll notice as soon as one of the officers tries to get near the girl the dogs are trying to kill, one immediately goes after him.
 

Police show up at 1:05. A woman is torn apart by a couple of pit bulls, people can't pull the dogs off or are too scared to help, a man with a poll strikes one of the dogs but it isn't enough to stop it. Guess what it takes to get them to stop?
 

No idea why the uploader named this video what he did. I can't find the original uploader of this. Anyway, little kids and adults are terrorized at the park by dogs. One or two people get several bites (injuries visible at 1:35). Firemen with high pressure hoses can't get the dogs to leave, police arrive and they go after the cops, despite batons being used. One dog ends up getting shot (the lead up to this is at about 2:20), animal control comes and wrangles both dogs after a lengthy foot chase between yards.

You can make the argument that I'm telling you this is a bad breed of dog and I don't like them. And you're absolutely right. They're a danger to everyone, badge or no badge, because no matter the amount of training they get, pit bulls have randomly snapped and attacked people they've lived with for years and once they attack, usually the only way to get them to stop is to kill them. Even the great Dog Whisperer Cezar Milan was unable to rehabilitate a pit bull that a family owned. He ended up taking the dog away, and even still he required months and months to get the pit bull to settle down.

I don't like seeing animals get hurt. And it's not the dogs fault that it's a bad dog, its the people who bred them to be what they are. People can argue all they like about "how it's raised is the only thing that matters" or "every dog is a good dog". Those things are true to an extent, but we need to keep in mind simple biology. Go back and look through the pages of history and you'll see that the fact is that these dogs were bred to fight and kill. The instinct to do that has not been bred out of them like it was with dogs like the Great Dane. Those were also German dogs, bred for war this time, basically to be able to take down an infantryman (by being as tall and heavy as one). But over hundreds of years the Dane has turned into "the worlds largest lap dog". No instincts to harm or kill anymore. They've merely retained their height and weight. Pit bulls and Rottweilers however, were not bred with intelligence, loyalty, hunting, scent tracking, rescuing or obedience in mind, nor has the instinct to do harm been bred out of them over time. And until that happens, they are not a safe and reliable police dog.

Edited February 26, 201610 yr by unr3al

Even out here police had issues with pitbulls. On the video below an officer shoots one point-blank, and then fires some more shots, and the dog is additionally run over by a patrol truck, and alive nevertheless (not because of their poor accuracy, but because those Makarov pistols don't do much against a dog like that). 

 

One thing that really surprised in the unr3al's post is to see those UK officers just standing around, not even trying to intervene, with they fellow cop lumping around screaming with a dog on his leg. Two years ago an investigator from the department I was attached to was with coroners in an apartment where a body was found, when a stray dog appeared and attacked the coroner. Investigators don't carry guns and the nearest armed cop was far away (on the first floor of the building if I remember it right), so he strangled the dog with his bare hands (suffering some pain in the process, but still he did it). Maybe there's an SOP in the UK for a situation like that, and UK cops can't do anything against the procedure, but staying still looking at a guy in pain, especially considering that police officers gotta be trained in unarmed combat...

On 2/27/2016 at 1:35 PM, Hastings said:

especially considering that police officers gotta be trained in unarmed combat...

Not against animals. You can't judo throw a dog or use a pressure point on it. I agree to an extent. I believe that instinctively, good officers will want to protect their own, as well as the public from an obvious threat they can stop immediately. I think in most cases opening fire on the dogs is the right thing to do. There have been some scenarios where friendly dogs get killed, certainly. But I think preserving their lives over the lives of animals that have an 8 year life span is the right thing to do generally speaking.

I still say bad shooting on the part of those Russian cops as Makarovs are generally 9mm which is a caliber a lot of U.S. officers use, shame that guy in the trench coat had to suffer because the lady didn't do anything to help him. At least kick the dog under the ribs or something. I love animals, but they both got attacked by an obviously vicious animal. Do what you have to do in order to survive.

*EDIT*

Just found this video; body cam footage of an unprovoked attack.
 

Absolutely no reason for the dog to go hostile. It's like a switch was flipped.

Edited March 1, 201610 yr by unr3al

13 hours ago, unr3al said:

Absolutely no reason for the dog to go hostile. It's like a switch was flipped.

Yep. Dogs are dangerous, and some are much more than others. I just don't get it when people say "Oh he's alright, he never bit anyone". Yep, that's the first time and I'm sure the victim appreciates it. Here in Russia there's no penalty for no leashes or muzzles, and sometimes you can see dogs like bull terriers or pit bulls running around. 

When it comes to PM I have to mention (as I've been using that pistol for several years during my army training) it has a very low bullet speed (and some more issues to it by I suddenly forgot all English and don't know how to translate this), which prevents it from stopping that massive creature. Anyway the dog was shot and collapsed later. 

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:18 AM, unr3al said:

On ‎26‎/‎02‎/‎2016 at 6:18 AM, unr3al said:

Not an advocate of it, primarily because I'm not an advocate of those dogs. Rottweilers and Pit Bulls are unpredictable breeds. They were selectively bred for fighting by the Germans & English respectively, without regard to what their temperament might be like. Considering they are extremely muscular and were bred to expend energy via fighting, these dogs need constant exercise to help calm them, but even if they get that, dogs that have lived with families for years have attacked their owners or their owners kids at random, sometimes resulting in death. They do not have the obedience of a German Shepherd or the nose of a hound dog. Because of their personality quirks and physical traits; I feel they pose more of a danger to the officers than an asset.

 

 Sorry but I have to disagree with some of what you have said.  In particular regarding Rottweilers.

 

Rotties are not an "unpredictable breed" - they are no more unpredictable than any other breed of dog.

They were bred for herding cattle and were known as butchers or drovers dogs in Germany.  They were never bred to be fighting dogs.

They do not need constant exercise.  I have 4 male Rottweilers and they get one single 45 minute to an hours walk a day. They also have one day a week that they do not get a walk and just potter about the house and garden.  Their ages are from 2 1/2 years old to 8 years old and they are all very settled almost lazy dogs in the house.

I have had Rottweilers for 15 years and have worked in Rottie Rescue for 7 years.  I have helped rehome hundreds of Rotties and all of mine are rescues, not one Rottie that I have had dealings with has "attacked their owners or their owners kids at random, sometimes resulting in death".

As for "They do not have the obedience of a German Shepherd".  One of my Rotties is an Obedience Champion and qualified for the Obedience competition at Crufts.  He is also a Pets As Therapy dog.  Another of my Rotties has titles in Schutzhund and working trials - both sports require a high level of obedience, a steady temperament and the ability to tracka human scent and find objects along that track.

As a professional dog trainer, the most common breed for aggression I dal with is Jack Russell Terriers.  The most aggressive dogs I have dealt with have been a lab (bit 5 people and attacked several dogs before he was 2 years old due to fear aggression) and a Saint Bernard who had bitten 2 children.

 

 

20 hours ago, thumper1978 said:

They do not need constant exercise.  I have 4 male Rottweilers and they get one single 45 minute to an hours walk a day. They also have one day a week that they do not get a walk and just potter about the house and garden. 

That sounds like a fair ammount of exercise to me. One hour per day + accessible garden, doesn't sound lazy at all.

Dogs are dangerous animals, especially pit bulls. That's been proven. I get really tired of my fellow dog lovers saying things like "MY pit bull would never hurt anyone". That's what everyone says, it drives me crazy.

And when you think about it, its kind of a miracle that certain breeds are so relatively easily trainable. But pit bulls? I don't know man. The last thing I want is "Sparky" from my local PD chewing someone's face off.

On 3/2/2016 at 7:04 PM, thumper1978 said:

 Sorry but I have to disagree with some of what you have said.  In particular regarding Rottweilers.

 

Rotties are not an "unpredictable breed" - they are no more unpredictable than any other breed of dog.

They were bred for herding cattle and were known as butchers or drovers dogs in Germany.  They were never bred to be fighting dogs.

They do not need constant exercise.  I have 4 male Rottweilers and they get one single 45 minute to an hours walk a day. They also have one day a week that they do not get a walk and just potter about the house and garden.  Their ages are from 2 1/2 years old to 8 years old and they are all very settled almost lazy dogs in the house.

I have had Rottweilers for 15 years and have worked in Rottie Rescue for 7 years.  I have helped rehome hundreds of Rotties and all of mine are rescues, not one Rottie that I have had dealings with has "attacked their owners or their owners kids at random, sometimes resulting in death".

As for "They do not have the obedience of a German Shepherd".  One of my Rotties is an Obedience Champion and qualified for the Obedience competition at Crufts.  He is also a Pets As Therapy dog.  Another of my Rotties has titles in Schutzhund and working trials - both sports require a high level of obedience, a steady temperament and the ability to tracka human scent and find objects along that track.

As a professional dog trainer, the most common breed for aggression I dal with is Jack Russell Terriers.  The most aggressive dogs I have dealt with have been a lab (bit 5 people and attacked several dogs before he was 2 years old due to fear aggression) and a Saint Bernard who had bitten 2 children.

 

 

I'm glad you've had a good experience with your Rottweilers, but that is a power house dog. They were indeed used for those purposes you outlined, but it's no coincidence that they have the strongest bite force of any dog at 348 pounds of pressure per square inch, a double coat and occasionally two sets of fangs. They also happen to like roaming in packs if possible, and due to their strength and potential for violence they are even banned in some countries completely. The only sunny side is that they at least are useful outside of being a fighting dog and that they don't tend to hold onto you when they do bite you. Pit bulls are near impossible to get off without killing it or seriously injuring it, which is why so many of the videos I posted end up with police having to shoot them to death.

Neither breed is a safe dog around children in my opinion, and you better be a strong healthy adult who has a way to defend yourself if you're going to own one. I simply wouldn't advise it. Most people should just get more predictable breed. You've had the success you've had because you're a professional dog trainer. I'm sure you'd be able to turn a basset hound into a guard dog if you wanted to. You're an exception compared to most pet owners in America and around the world due to your occupation. But in general, if prospective owners look at these animals history, its mainstream use and its anatomy before you buy, you're going to get better results. I stand by my recommendation for people who want a big dog who common idiot burglars wouldn't want to f*** with based on sight; get a Great Dane. They're massive and have a deep bark, but they're actually very friendly, despite the fact that they were also originally bred for fighting (humans, not other dogs). 

I'll concede that I dislike pit bulls more due to their record of snapping on owners they've lived with for years, which is a trait I haven't really seen in other dogs, but both dogs can be extremely dangerous to people they don't know.

And as Hystery said, 45 minutes to an hour is a lot of exercise compared to other breeds. Hounds and Danes are just as obedient and well behaved doing absolutely nothing as they are when walked and exercised constantly. Labs, retrievers, huskies, malamutes, German shepherds, dobermans, collies and the power dogs like the rottweilers and pit bulls need to spend energy, or they misbehave as you mentioned earlier.

We might just have to agree to disagree. *shrug*

Edited March 3, 201610 yr by unr3al

I mean I understand why pit bulls as police dogs are a bad idea, but seriously... You don't need to show videos of dogs getting shot. That is not okay.

2 hours ago, WumboCS said:

I mean I understand why pit bulls as police dogs are a bad idea, but seriously... You don't need to show videos of dogs getting shot. That is not okay.

That's funny that many people are fine when a bad guy gets shot by a cop, but when it comes to an animal they are offended. Ah, the double standards...

On 3/14/2016 at 4:55 AM, Hystery said:

That's funny that many people are fine when a bad guy gets shot by a cop, but when it comes to an animal they are offended. Ah, the double standards...

It is. But do you like watching videos of dogs getting killed? Or any animals? Even humans...

1 minute ago, WumboCS said:

It is. But do you like watching videos of dogs getting killed? Or any animals? Even humans...

When it comes to animal like a dog, which is not an endangered species nor a wild species, who's attacking a human, be it a man, woman, or kid, I indeed have actually no problem seeing the dog being put down.

On 3/15/2016 at 0:07 PM, WumboCS said:

It is. But do you like watching videos of dogs getting killed? Or any animals? Even humans...

Then don't watch it.

5 hours ago, unr3al said:

Then don't watch it.

??