Unfortunately if you want to play the statistics game with race, it goes both ways. According to a study done by a major news network (you can go Google it yourself, it's 1am and I'm not going to dig it up); young African American males are twice as likely to commit a murder than their Caucasian counterparts. They also tend to live in poorer neighborhoods that are near schools that sometimes have lower educational standards. Those are facts;  you can correlate those however you like, if at all. I happen to attend college in one of the worst cities for heroin trafficking in the United States and it's predominantly Hispanic (87%+, mostly Dominican, some Puerto Rican). Oddly enough, despite the fact that all or nearly all of the dealers are Hispanic, a large amount of the addicts who commit crimes to get money to ensure they get their heroin fix for the day; are Caucasian. Moreover; the school I go to, as a result of its location, is majority Hispanic, but I'd be willing to lay down money on the table on a bet that none of the people sitting in my classes are selling or buying smack on the streets when class is over. I think it's the town itself that's poisonous, not necessarily the individuals. But these residents are caught in a vicious cycle because of it. The town produces bad people, who continue to populate it with more bad people. The only way to improve it is with good police work and the introduction of good citizens to the area to push out the bad ones.

Riight, but there are more white people in the country than black people. Its not a matter of total number of white people vs. total number of black people, its about proportions.

Why do we even feel the need to define by race ? I can see that obviously more whites were shot by officers than blacks. What I want to know is how many were justified shootings because my guess would be nearly all of them so why not add all of the numbers together and label this chart the "Idiots shot by officers because they were breaking the law" ?

If you're not committing a crime, your chance of being shot by a POLICE OFFICER goes down to 0% ! Ever think about those statistics ? Police will not shoot you just because they are bored, use your heads ; that's the LUMP 3 feet above your ASS ! And your comment sounds as racist as their accusations.

This actually isn't a third world country, we don't punish all crimes with death. Even assaulting a police officer is a crime that is punishable by a jail sentence, not a death penalty. And again, its not a matter of how many vs. how many, its a matter of proportions.

Here's just one example of proven racial disparity in our justice system:

 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0

Here's another:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/07/california-police-shootings-database-racial-disparity

One more:

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

Sorry, I lied. Last one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/15/charting-the-shocking-rise-of-racial-disparity-in-our-criminal-justice-system/

 

I'm a sociology student. One of the things that you learn as a sociology student is the difference between a personal trouble and a public issue. Its impossible to look at this much evidence and say "Well, if people get shot by cops, that's their problem". When its happening to so many people in such a similar way, its a public issue. The reality is is that there is a system in place that has created this disparity.

 

This actually isn't a third world country, we don't punish all crimes with death. Even assaulting a police officer is a crime that is punishable by a jail sentence, not a death penalty. And again, its not a matter of how many vs. how many, its a matter of proportions.

Here's just one example of proven racial disparity in our justice system:

 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/04/us/marijuana-arrests-four-times-as-likely-for-blacks.html?_r=0

Here's another:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/07/california-police-shootings-database-racial-disparity

One more:

http://www.propublica.org/article/deadly-force-in-black-and-white

Sorry, I lied. Last one:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/07/15/charting-the-shocking-rise-of-racial-disparity-in-our-criminal-justice-system/

 

I'm a sociology student. One of the things that you learn as a sociology student is the difference between a personal trouble and a public issue. Its impossible to look at this much evidence and say "Well, if people get shot by cops, that's their problem". When its happening to so many people in such a similar way, its a public issue. The reality is is that there is a system in place that has created this disparity.

 

Seeing a number of shooting victims, there are a few things that I never want to do:
Get my life together/turn my life around
Just about to start to go back to school
Become an aspiring rap musician
Never hurt no one
(all are common comments by families of innocent shooting victims)

 

If you want to talk to somebody other than the last poster; use the 'Quote' button. Otherwise it's presumed you're replying to the last post. Nobody here's telling you how to live your life, but what I am telling you is that you need to avoid attacking people, anyone, from a personal standpoint. Attack their argument and dissect it if you want. I still stand by my point that lethal force by police isn't as black and white as you paint it, where "good guys don't get shot". They do. Even by accident, come to think of it. Just ask the COPS staff. They lost a boom mic operator about two years ago because by some borderline otherworldly event; a police officer shot him to death during a shootout with some other guy at a burger restaurant. A lot of these shootings are justified, I won't argue with you about Ferguson or that university cop shooting the black dude in the car for trying to drive off while he had his arm caught in the door. But there are factors beyond "bad" or "good" involved in a lot of these.

I think people who are both anti-police and pro-police would do some good for everyone by listening to somebody independent spit-balling on what it's like to be a cop in America. I found a video a while ago with author and neuro-scientist Sam Harris and TV & MMA personality Joe Rogan discussing use of force by police and their day to day job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkhXxGHeMOA

I am not attacking people. I think youinterpretating my statement differently in your point of view. 

I am and always have been a pro-police supporter. No matter how hard the media tried to paint the front line members red, it will not change my everlasting support for what they do. Every morning they put on a pair of boots that I never will wear or die for. 

I know what you are talking about and I am very aware of what and what had been going on. 

I can't imagine being in a profession that is known as the " Enemy" for many people, in video games, in movies, on T.V and in the media. 

Politics, weapon violence, narcotics and black people, wether you agree or not, is a perfect agenda for the media to throw the cops under the bus. The media gives the African American population (not all of them) the idea that they are the oppressed race and the police are out there to throw them behind bars or to be shot. Unfortunately, a lot of black kids nowadays are being raised in such environments where they witness the culture molded by the dead " I didn't do nothing" victims and feel that they gotta carry out the deed to live up for respect among their fellow peers on the streets because it's the norm nowadays. 

Why are we so racist ? 

When we hear about a white person commiting a crime that results in getting shot by the Police or bit by the k9 -- we just simply shake our head and say that he deserved it because you break the law comes with consequence in society. We don't go around protesting and burning cities over it. 

Black people on the other hand does the opposite of the spectrum. All of the major key figures that was shot and killed by the police sparked nation wide protests against the police because the victim was an angel ( with a felony record ) and it was police brutality. White people shake our head at them because they create unwanted danger by their movements. Cops are at risk because of the hands up don't shoot movement. 

So I think maybe some officers out there have had it with the treatment they are getting from the media, the Obama administration, and the general population of the United States. In all, this affects the morale of our officers and when they gotta deal with a black person, I'm sure somewhere in the back of their head thinking " will this one start another lawsuit ?" 

Unfortunately they do. A man running away a cop because he fired a taser at the officer gets shot in the back. Officer gets thrown under the bus and now there's new evidence that the perp DID actually shoot the taser at the officer right before running. It was all caught on camera but sadly the media has an agenda that puts everyone but the police in favor for a lawsuit. 

If you act sketchy, dress up like gang bangers, or associate yourself with people that are known to the police in drug communties, you are going to be profiled by the police, weather you like it or not. Because the people before you that we see on COPS or 48 hours, have done something very foolish that results in a lethal shooting.

The Asians have it right. They behave in public, they don't attract attention and when they do break the law it's normally always done privately and not openly in public. They are well-mannered. Why can't black people be like that ? 

Sounds racist, huh ? You can thank all major news network for feeding us this kind of bullshit.

i feel sorry for the good part of the African American population who went to school, have a good job with no record or history with the police and they have a well mannered family, yet they gotta turn on TV and hear about more shootings that brings discredit to everything they worked for, liberty, freedom and equality. 

Gun control extremists dance in the blood of murder victims while exploiting their survivors for political gains. Sorry for your loss but NO sympathy for your piss poor judgment.

Edited September 26, 201510 yr by GravelRoadCop

Why do we even feel the need to define by race ? I can see that obviously more whites were shot by officers than blacks. What I want to know is how many were justified shootings because my guess would be nearly all of them so why not add all of the numbers together and label this chart the "Idiots shot by officers because they were breaking the law" ?

If you're not committing a crime, your chance of being shot by a POLICE OFFICER goes down to 0% ! Ever think about those statistics ? Police will not shoot you just because they are bored, use your heads ; that's the LUMP 3 feet above your ASS ! And your comment sounds as racist as their accusations.

 

Couldn't have said that better myself.

Riight, but there are more white people in the country than black people. Its not a matter of total number of white people vs. total number of black people, its about proportions.

Yeah, and far more white people died of police shootings last year than black people, despite white people making up about 67% percent of this country. I don't understand your proportions argument.

 Honestly fuck you if you use the race card. More white people were killed than black people by cops. This has been already proven. 

There is no violence, I don't understand how you can judge a cop based on a video that was either edited, or the dumbass "camera-man" pissed off the cop and started recording late.

 

Have you not noticed how every video starts like 20 minutes into the conversation? When the cop is mad as fuck? Do you really think that police department would of hired a cop with short-temper? I honestly don't understand some peoples logic. 

DISCLAIMER: I am not racist and do not hate any races, so anybody who wants to pull a race card on me too, forget it.

DOJ reports that over 40 percent of violent crime is committed by African Americans. This would mean the number of people that are killed by police each year would have to be roughly 40 percent African American. That is not even close to the case as the percentage is much lower. So proportionally to crime stats, a white person is more like to be shot and killed by a peace officer. Those are just facts and numbers. 

Edited September 28, 201510 yr by Flak
Agency name

Yeah, and far more white people died of police shootings last year than black people, despite white people making up about 67% percent of this country. I don't understand your proportions argument.

I don't think he quite understands it himself. 

 Honestly fuck you if you use the race card. More white people were killed than black people by cops. This has been already proven.

I don't think that's a reason to insult people.

Yeah, and far more white people died of police shootings last year than black people, despite white people making up about 67% percent of this country. I don't understand your proportions argument.

Ok, I'll explain it more. Lets use another example. There are more poor white people than poor black people, but a larger percentage of black people are poor. Now back to shootings. While more white people are killed, their deaths are proportionate to their population, and that isn't the case for minorities.

far more white people died of police shootings last year than black people, despite white people making up about 67% percent of this country.  

This is the part that kept you from understanding the proportions argument. Its not despite, its because. Of course more white people are killed, because there are more white people. But that doesn't mean that killings of minorities are proportionate to their population in the country.

 

 

Ok, I'll explain it more. Lets use another example. There are more poor white people than poor black people, but a larger percentage of black people are poor. Now back to shootings. While more white people are killed, their deaths are proportionate to their population, and that isn't the case for minorities.

This is the part that kept you from understanding the proportions argument. Its not despite, its because. Of course more white people are killed, because there are more white people. But that doesn't mean that killings of minorities are proportionate to their population in the country.

 

So you're sort of insinuating that a larger percentage of black people are poor, which leads to them living in large clusters together in bad neighborhoods which leads to more crime which leads to more police encounters which leads to more potential to get shot. Right? Funny you should imply that, because a study conducted in 2008 by the Bureau of Justice found that the percentage of black people stopped by the police or otherwise contacted by the police was nearly identical to the percentage of white people stopped or otherwise contacted by the police. (8.8% black, 8.4% white) which forgoes the population count issue since we're dealing with percentages rather than total numbers.

Even if the first part of my paragraph was true, that isn't the fault of the police. The fact of the matter is that racial tension in this country has never truly gone away after the Civil War and that distrust of the police and the government is at an all time high. This is exacerbated by the fact that the media over-reports and gives speculative, uninformed opinions on events that occur almost specifically on white cop vs. minority criminal. The result is that we now have a nation out to crucify cops for doing their jobs, often by the book, that has no actual perspective on police work or the laws of the land.

Edited September 30, 201510 yr by unr3al

 

Ok, I'll explain it more. Lets use another example. There are more poor white people than poor black people, but a larger percentage of black people are poor. Now back to shootings. While more white people are killed, their deaths are proportionate to their population, and that isn't the case for minorities.

This is the part that kept you from understanding the proportions argument. Its not despite, its because. Of course more white people are killed, because there are more white people. But that doesn't mean that killings of minorities are proportionate to their population in the country.

 

Crime tends to stem from poor neighborhoods as many people here have unanimously agreed. And unfortunately, like I've said before, more than 40 percent of violent crime in the US is committed by African Americans. That is not to say when a baby is born, he/she is has a criminal mentality, nor does it mean people can't work themselves out of slums. Plenty have. But plenty stay behind. Numbers wise though, this means 40 percent of people killed by police should be African American since violent crime normally means a violent personality, commonly concluding with a violent takedown(including police shootings); yet this is inherently not the case. And numbers have been thrown around but I will not quote any; however even the most conservative estimates exemplify that as a white person committing violent crime, that person is more likely to be shot and killed by police.

 

Ok, I'll explain it more. Lets use another example. There are more poor white people than poor black people, but a larger percentage of black people are poor. Now back to shootings. While more white people are killed, their deaths are proportionate to their population, and that isn't the case for minorities.

This is the part that kept you from understanding the proportions argument. Its not despite, its because. Of course more white people are killed, because there are more white people. But that doesn't mean that killings of minorities are proportionate to their population in the country.

 

That's all well and good, however there are other factors that come into play. It's not as black and white as you're making it (no pun intended). In order for there to be a Police vs. Black encounter, the Police need to be called first. It's not like there is Police Officers roaming the streets to gun down random black folk, or that Police Officer (A) on his patrol route is going to go out of his way to find a random black person to mow down. 

For example; during the 2012/2013 period blacks committed an average of 560,000 violent crimes, specifically against whites. Whereas Whites only committed around 100,000 violent crimes against blacks. Meaning, blacks were the attackers 84% of the time involving blacks and whites. This figure is consistent with that of the same statistic reports given in 2008, perhaps not coincidentally that was also the year Obama was elected in and coincides with what unr3al is pointing out too. 

Again, you could argue that the proportions make "sense" given that there are more white people, however that being said, violent interracial crimes committed between Hispanics and Blacks are nearly identical to that of Whites and Blacks. Blacks being the attackers 82% of the time, whereas Hispanics are only the attackers 17% of the time. Give or take. And, once again observing you could say that "chance of encounter" between Blacks and whites is significantly higher given the fact that there are five times as many whites as there are blacks. But, and the big BUT is that there is only 30% more Hispanics than there are blacks, yet black-on-hispanic is almost as lopsided as black-on-white violence.  The aforementioned figures suggests that blacks may be deliberately attacking both Hispanics and Whites.

Using figures for the 2013 racial mix of the American population -62.2 percent white, 17.1 percent Hispanic and 13.2 percent black- we can calculate the average likelihood of a person of each race attacking the other. A black is 27 times more likely to attack a white and 8 times more likely to attack a Hispanic than the other way way around. We can also calculate how often each criminal group picks and chooses their victim. When whites commit violence, they choose fellow whites as victims 82.4 percent of the time, and rarely attack blacks. Blacks attack whites almost as often as they attack fellow blacks. Hispanics attack whites more often than any other group, including their own. 

Also, 77% white ~225 million, 13% black ~40 million. Whites committed 2,755 murders in 2013. Blacks committed 2,698 murders in the very same year. So the black population of 13% commits almost as many murders as the white population 77%. That's a 5-to-1 ratio. Blacks constitute about 13% of the American population, give or take. Yet, when it comes to crime the FBI in 2012/2013 reports blacks Commit:

49.4% of all murders. 

32.5% of all forcible rape. 

54.9% of all robberies. 

34.1% of all aggravated assaults. 

28.1% of ALL crime.

Are whites (including cops') a threat to blacks? No, by no stretch are they anywhere near. 90.8% of all murdered blacks are killed by other blacks. The remaining 9.2% black murder victims were killed by ALL other races or "unknown" 

Keep in mind also that 19.8 million white people in America live below poverty level, as to 10.8 million Black people. There is almost twice as many white people below poverty, yet black crime is far above any other race group. No matter how you cut it, black crime is still higher than white crime or any other for that matter and it would never even out despite population disparity for each group.  

All of these statistics can be found via the Department of Justice (DOJ) and the FBI crime database.

 

So you're sort of insinuating that a larger percentage of black people are poor, which leads to them living in large clusters together in bad neighborhoods which leads to more crime which leads to more police encounters which leads to more potential to get shot. Right? Funny you should imply that, because a study conducted in 2008 by the Bureau of Justice found that the percentage of black people stopped by the police or otherwise contacted by the police was nearly identical to the percentage of white people stopped or otherwise contacted by the police. (8.8% black, 8.4% white) which forgoes the population count issue since we're dealing with percentages rather than total numbers.
 

I'm not insinuating it, its true. http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/ And I don't know the DOJ study that you're talking about, but here's one that I found that I would recommend:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/pbtss11rpa11pr.cfm

I'm not going to argue with you or anyone about this, because that's how people get further entrenched in their pre-conceived ideas. But, I love cultural discussions.

Even if the first part of my paragraph was true, that isn't the fault of the police. The fact of the matter is that racial tension in this country has never truly gone away after the Civil War and that distrust of the police and the government is at an all time high. This is exacerbated by the fact that the media over-reports and gives speculative, uninformed opinions on events that occur almost specifically on white cop vs. minority criminal. The result is that we now have a nation out to crucify cops for doing their jobs, often by the book, that has no actual perspective on police work or the laws of the land.

 I don't think its just because of police conduct or just because of slavery. Just 50 years ago, black people were being blasted with water cannons in the streets in their struggle for equality. That isn't ancient history. I mean from a historical perspective, black people have been enslaved, tortured, mass murdered, lynched, and denied human rights. And since then, we've been waging a war on drugs, we've privatized prison, and we've legalized the bribery of politicians. All of those things have helped keep minority Americans down. I honestly think its absurd that after all that, the biggest problem could be a lack of respect for cops. We know that minorities don't have the same experience as white people, and we shouldn't feel defensive about that. We should work to remedy that problem.

AI'm not going to argue with you or anyone about this, because that's how people get further entrenched in their pre-conceived ideas. But, I love cultural discussions.

*Watches you argue after saying you won't.*

If you're not aware of my study, Google it. No need to be shy, you can cross-check me. I took a look at your study and there were a couple of interesting take-aways based on two paragraphs.

"Black drivers (13 percent) were more likely than white (10 percent) and Hispanic (10 percent) drivers to be pulled over by police in a traffic stop; however, blacks, whites and Hispanics were equally likely to be stopped in a street stop (less than one percent each). Among those involved in street or traffic stops, blacks were less likely than whites and Hispanics to believe the police behaved properly during the encounter.

About eight in 10 drivers involved in traffic stops and six in 10 persons involved in street stops believed they were stopped for a legitimate reason. Regardless of the reason for the traffic stop, a smaller percentage of black drivers (67 percent) than Hispanic (74 percent) and white (84 percent) drivers believed the reason for the stop was legitimate."

Traffic stops occur mostly due to observed moving violations. This means that the police officer in most cases is behind the vehicle and cannot see who is actually inside it, which largely eliminates the race card, with the exception of police departments that patrol a bad neighborhood, which as you suggest; more often than not are populated by African Americans, which is not the fault of police. This study furthermore proves that street stops, where the police officer can see the color of a suspects skin are equal in number, which again debunks those who would pull the race card, yet the study goes on to suggest that African Americans already have it in their heads that they're being stopped or treated a certain way because they're black, when the evidence you provided points to the contrary. I would suggest to you this is precisely because of the mistreatment you've mentioned over the past several modern decades and the constant bombardment of this mentality passing from parent to child. It's used as an excuse far too often.

I'm not being defensive against racism at all. It exists, and all Americans know it. What I'm defending are police officers who are doing their job, and most importantly ones who are getting shot in the head while minding their own f****ing business eating lunch. This mentality America now has regarding its police forces has been given to us from a parade of shameless ass-kissing criminal apologists who perform their best mental acrobatics to discredit any use of police force against their "baby" sons or daughters who go out and put police lives or citizen lives in danger. This has lead to an America I'm sometimes ashamed to be a part of. An America where cops get refused service at fast food restaurants, or get assassinated while writing a written warning during a traffic stop, or while sitting down to eat.

This race card bullsh*t needs to stop. It's beyond the point of getting out of control. It is out of control, and its increasing danger for everyone. It makes the public more defiant, which increases the risk of a physical confrontation, and it makes police officers more edgy because they now have to look over their shoulders when they're minding their own business.

Edited September 30, 201510 yr by unr3al

*Watches you argue after saying you won't.*
If you're not aware of my study, Google it. No need to be shy, you can cross-check me. I took a look at your study and there were a couple of interesting take-aways based on two paragraphs.

 Pardon me, but if you want to reference an article for use as evidence, you look up the link. Why is it my job to go digging for some article that you read at some point? Thats absurd.

"Black drivers (13 percent) were more likely than white (10 percent) and Hispanic (10 percent) drivers to be pulled over by police in a traffic stop; however, blacks, whites and Hispanics were equally likely to be stopped in a street stop (less than one percent each). Among those involved in street or traffic stops, blacks were less likely than whites and Hispanics to believe the police behaved properly during the encounter.

About eight in 10 drivers involved in traffic stops and six in 10 persons involved in street stops believed they were stopped for a legitimate reason. Regardless of the reason for the traffic stop, a smaller percentage of black drivers (67 percent) than Hispanic (74 percent) and white (84 percent) drivers believed the reason for the stop was legitimate."

Traffic stops occur mostly due to observed moving violations. This means that the police officer in most cases is behind the vehicle and cannot see who is actually inside it, which largely eliminates the race card, with the exception of police departments that patrol a bad neighborhood, which as you suggest; more often than not are populated by African Americans, which is not the fault of police. 

 Wait...you totally just made that up. How do you know that the officer didn't see the race of the driver? You took a legitimate DOJ study and then added that last part. That part wasn't in any of the evidence.

This study furthermore proves that street stops, where the police officer can see the color of a suspects skin are equal in number, which again debunks those who would pull the race card, yet the study goes on to suggest that African Americans already have it in their heads that they're being stopped or treated a certain way because they're black, when the evidence you provided points to the contrary. 

 The evidence shows that minorities have less confidence in the police. Can you blame them? The study doesn't suggest anything, its saying what exists. The DOJ isn't making cultural observations, they're reporting on statistics gathered by the justice department. We seem to agree that we're living in a society that has endured centuries of brutal discrimination, so I find it fascinating that you call it "pulling the race card". Do you not think that institutional racism still exists? That once segregation ended, that we live in an equal society? Because all the evidence that I've shown you proves the contrary.

'm not being defensive against racism at all. It exists, and all Americans know it. What I'm defending are police officers who are doing their job, and most importantly ones who are getting shot in the head while minding their own f****ing business eating lunch. This mentality America now has regarding its police forces has been given to us from a parade of shameless ass-kissing criminal apologists who perform their best mental acrobatics to discredit any use of police force against their "baby" sons or daughters who go out and put police lives or citizen lives in danger. This has lead to an America I'm sometimes ashamed to be a part of. An America where cops get refused service at fast food restaurants, or get assassinated while writing a written warning during a traffic stop, or while sitting down to eat.

Thankfully, killings of police officers are decreasing rather sharply. You seem to have a classic case of the "GI Joe mentality". We don't live in a world of good guys vs. bad guys. The police are not the victims of our society. Yes, police officers are killed from time to time and it is tragic. But I find it incredibly fascinating that you agree that racism exists, yet you're completely opposed to addressing its current manifestations.

Pardon me, but if you want to reference an article for use as evidence, you look up the link. Why is it my job to go digging for some article that you read at some point? Thats absurd.

Because I don't have a burden of proof. This isn't a court of law, it's a debate (apparently). You're welcome to look up anything I say to refute it if you want.

 

 

 Wait...you totally just made that up. How do you know that the officer didn't see the race of the driver? You took a legitimate DOJ study and then added that last part. That part wasn't in any of the evidence.

Made what up? I've spent time in a patrol car, to put it lightly. You don't conduct traffic stops from in front of somebody by slamming on the brakes, do you? You follow somebody from behind and signal them to pull over with your lights and siren. I don't need to tell you this. You've probably been pulled over yourself, or if not, you can go on YouTube and see any dash cam video of a traffic stop, and then come back and report your findings on what position the patrol car was in. You can stop people for any number of reasons that you should know enough about by now since you're on a forum about police work. Improperly tinted windows, loud stereo, failure to signal, unsafe lane change, speeding, road rage, reckless driving, suspected DUI, crossing the center line, weaving in and out of the break down lane, defective equipment, expired tags, suspended drivers license... I can go on and on. It's not hard to find a reason to pull somebody over, and that's a large part of police work. A lot of traffic stops are made in an attempt to start an investigation. Somebody coming from a drug infested area late at night will get pulled over for a legitimate reason, but the probable cause for the stop isn't what actually motivated the desire to stop the car. This is how a lot of criminals get busted. A chicken sh*t traffic stop can turn into something much bigger if you pull over the right person.

 

The evidence shows that minorities have less confidence in the police. Can you blame them? The study doesn't suggest anything, its saying what exists. The DOJ isn't making cultural observations, they're reporting on statistics gathered by the justice department. We seem to agree that we're living in a society that has endured centuries of brutal discrimination, so I find it fascinating that you call it "pulling the race card". Do you not think that institutional racism still exists? That once segregation ended, that we live in an equal society? Because all the evidence that I've shown you proves the contrary.

Yes, I absolutely can blame them, because the numbers you yourself pulled up suggest otherwise. Nobody in this entire thread has given the notion that there aren't racist cops working in the field today. But you haven't shown me anything that suggests the government is out to get black people. All of the numbers you've provided or talked about have supplemented my arguments and the arguments of others, not invalidated them. I'm glad you find amusement in the term "pulling the race card". Because it's going to get used a lot more in cultural discussions from now until all of humanity blends skin colors once and for all. The fact that the DOJ study you showed everyone says that black people perceive that their contact with the police is more frequent or more unfair when it is statistically not proves my point using your numbers. I don't think I need to say any more than that.

 

Thankfully, killings of police officers are decreasing rather sharply. You seem to have a classic case of the "GI Joe mentality". We don't live in a world of good guys vs. bad guys. The police are not the victims of our society. Yes, police officers are killed from time to time and it is tragic. But I find it incredibly fascinating that you agree that racism exists, yet you're completely opposed to addressing its current manifestations.

Decreasing sharply according to who? 2015 isn't over yet. News reports of discrimination from corporate businesses and wanton violence and murder against police has been rampant in the wake of the Ferguson shooting last year and criticism of police is rampant even among privileged white people who have never received more than a speeding ticket in their lives. I know this because people like to talk. They like to take to the internet and say all the little dirty things they have to say about police officers behind their backs. To say that police aren't victims of our society is to pretend that nothing has changed over the last two years and the 24/7 news channels and web pages don't run stories about police encounters into the ground whenever it makes a catchy headline. A shooting of a Boston police officer was circulated on the TV news stations for two days tops, while a shooting with a victim that survived their wounds will stay there for weeks if they happen to have darker skin because its more sensational. If you're going to point fingers, why not point at yourself? What about that world of good guys vs. bad guys? What are you doing about that inequality and discrimination? You're completely throwing away the important words here. Police aren't being killed from time to time as normal this year. They're being assassinated. That's a distinctly different situation than a robbery shootout or a traffic stop gone wrong. It's premeditated murder of a government official.

Believe it or not, debating the people who like to point at somebody's skin tone does address current manifestations of racism. It does so because the "hands up don't shoot" and "black lives matter" movements are themselves racist. It turned out that the guy running away did NOT shout that or put his hands up, yet people still hash tag it. And it turns out that black politicians are now starting to campaign on Facebook and Twitter that they feel the "black lives matter" movement is sparking new racial division among Americans. Yet it goes ignored. It goes ignored because some minorities who don't want to have intelligent discussions about these problems want to justify what happens on the news to "their people". It's easier to say "f*ck the police" than to face facts.

Edited October 1, 201510 yr by unr3al

 

I'm not insinuating it, its true. http://www.npc.umich.edu/poverty/ And I don't know the DOJ study that you're talking about, but here's one that I found that I would recommend:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/pbtss11rpa11pr.cfm

I'm not going to argue with you or anyone about this, because that's how people get further entrenched in their pre-conceived ideas. But, I love cultural discussions.

 I don't think its just because of police conduct or just because of slavery. Just 50 years ago, black people were being blasted with water cannons in the streets in their struggle for equality. That isn't ancient history. I mean from a historical perspective, black people have been enslaved, tortured, mass murdered, lynched, and denied human rights. And since then, we've been waging a war on drugs, we've privatized prison, and we've legalized the bribery of politicians. All of those things have helped keep minority Americans down. I honestly think its absurd that after all that, the biggest problem could be a lack of respect for cops. We know that minorities don't have the same experience as white people, and we shouldn't feel defensive about that. We should work to remedy that problem.

You claim minorities have an awful experience. In California, almost half of students enrolled in the public UC system (renowned as probably the best public university system) are asian, a minority. Not so many years ago, asians were also used almost like slave labor building railroads, and in world war II, let's not forget the atrocious act of internment. They too were discriminated against. Now they are respected and even stereotyped as smart, paving their own way into corporate leadership and elsewhere. It is not the race of the person that matters anymore, not in the 21st century where lawsuits and media run rampant everywhere. Instead of claiming victim, those who incorrectly feel oppressed should consider working their way to success, not dwiddle their thumbs and suggest outrageous claims and needs for change that won't happen. Because de jure, everybody has the same rights. Sure there are racists, but most people aren't. I remember an interview where Morgan Freeman tells a CNN host that race has nothing to do with success, and he notes that both him and the host are African American.

I'd like to interject here a moment. I've seen accounts of local police forces that vary from corrupt to assholeish to downright pleasant. I was confused by this for a while, until I came to the conclusion that it all depends where you are. To give an example, I've read that Orange County's sheriff department is pretty corrupt and unpleasant, but I've heard nothing but good about many state agencies and smaller-town departments. I don't know if there's any further depth besides "some departments are good and some aren't," or if it depends on size and location, but I figure what department you're dealing with plays a huge factor. People seem to act like America has one big police force with the same personnel and attitudes, but we have thousands.