A man named Dylann Roof shot and killed 9 people in a mostly black church a few days ago. Dylann claims that it was done to help save the white race, and end an underground white genocide. Dylann claims that whites in the African nations of Zimbabwe and South Africa are being slaughtered, tortured, and raped by blacks. (This is actually somewhat true when you do research. If you want more information on this, do a bit of research on whites in Zimbabwe). Dylann also makes comments saying that American patriotism is a joke, people believe in a false sense of freedom when in reality whites are being murdered in the streets daily. Dylann says that he once googled black on white crime and brutal images came up. The information on this story goes on and on, the links are below. What are your thoughts on this entire situation?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/suspected-killer-dylann-roof-s-racist-manifesto-surfaces-154324556.html

http://m.csmonitor.com/World/Security-Watch/Backchannels/2015/0618/Why-would-an-American-white-supremacist-be-fond-of-Rhodesia-video

The shooting is terrible obviously, but many people are blowing the event out of proportion. The psuedo-progressives are painting a picture that communicates that there is some sort of racial bias against minorities. While I do not believe in white supremacy or "white nationalism" in any way shape or form, I also do not believe in trivializing tragedies to push an agenda. There's good and bad in every community, and we have to make sure that the dark side does not become a generalization of the entire community as a whole.

With that whole rant out of the way, this shooting shows that Neo-Nazis can still be a very dangerous threat, even if it is a lone wolf. Imagine if a whole organization of these people conducted very similar attacks.

The shooting is terrible obviously, but many people are blowing the event out of proportion. The psuedo-progressives are painting a picture that communicates that there is some sort of racial bias against minorities. While I do not believe in white supremacy or "white nationalism" in any way shape or form, I also do not believe in trivializing tragedies to push an agenda. There's good and bad in every community, and we have to make sure that the dark side does not become a generalization of the entire community as a whole.

With that whole rant out of the way, this shooting shows that Neo-Nazis can still be a very dangerous threat, even if it is a lone wolf. Imagine if a whole organization of these people conducted very similar attacks.

I don't think anyone is trying to make a generalization of a community based on this event. People are just saying it is sad that there are still people out there that believe in white supremacy and that racism is not dead. I have not heard anyone come out and say that all white people support what this guy did or that we aren't doing enough to prevent these kinds of attacks.

I don't think anyone is trying to make a generalization of a community based on this event. People are just saying it is sad that there are still people out there that believe in white supremacy and that racism is not dead. I have not heard anyone come out and say that all white people support what this guy did or that we aren't doing enough to prevent these kinds of attacks.

Good point, but there is a very vocal minority that does make  that generalization. The shooting is very tragic and it shows the dangers of white supremacy. 

The shooter was a racist, right-wing extremist that specifically targeted a historic black church, because he wanted to kill black people. That's fact.

If ISIS shot 9 people in a church in Charelston, we'd be screaming about how ISIS is coming to America and how terrorism is a huge threat. But when its a 21 year old racist white kid that got a .45 as a gift, its a situation that's incurable? At the cost of trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of civilians, we invaded two countries in the name of fighting terrorism. But when we do it to ourselves, we can't do anything about it?

We need to accept that there is a violent element to the right-wing in this country. Dylann Roof is a terrorist. Admitting that doesn't hurt conservative ideology.

The confederate flag flies over the capitol of South Carolina, and black people in the south are forced to drive on roads named after confederate generals that fought tooth and nail to keep their ancestors enslaved. That's wrong. 150 years later, we still haven't gotten over the civil war. The confederate flag shouldn't stand for southern pride, it's a flag of treason and racism.

As Americans, if there's anything we need to take away from this, its that its about time we started looking at domestic terrorism as a serious issue. When two Muslim extremists set off bombs at the Boston Marathon, conservatives called for stopping Muslims from entering the country. And now, they're saying that nothing can be done, and we'll never understand why the shooter did it. There's a double standard here.

Good point, but there is a very vocal minority that does make  that generalization. The shooting is very tragic and it shows the dangers of white supremacy. 

True, but there is always a very vocal minority when it comes to every situation and unfortunately they usually get the most attention from the media.

 

The shooter was a racist, right-wing extremist that specifically targeted a historic black church, because he wanted to kill black people. That's fact.

If ISIS shot 9 people in a church in Charelston, we'd be screaming about how ISIS is coming to America and how terrorism is a huge threat. But when its a 21 year old racist white kid that got a .45 as a gift, its a situation that's incurable? At the cost of trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives, and hundreds of thousands of civilians, we invaded two countries in the name of fighting terrorism. But when we do it to ourselves, we can't do anything about it?

We need to accept that there is a violent element to the right-wing in this country. Dylann Roof is a terrorist. Admitting that doesn't hurt conservative ideology.

The confederate flag flies over the capitol of South Carolina, and black people in the south are forced to drive on roads named after confederate generals that fought tooth and nail to keep their ancestors enslaved. That's wrong. 150 years later, we still haven't gotten over the civil war. The confederate flag shouldn't stand for southern pride, it's a flag of treason and racism.

As Americans, if there's anything we need to take away from this, its that its about time we started looking at domestic terrorism as a serious issue. When two Muslim extremists set off bombs at the Boston Marathon, conservatives called for stopping Muslims from entering the country. And now, they're saying that nothing can be done, and we'll never understand why the shooter did it. There's a double standard here.

You can thank people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and all the other people that said the police were "too militarized" in the wake of the protests in Ferguson and Baltimore. They wanted the police to scale back and have a "friendlier" look to them yet they turn around and complain that we do not take a tough enough stance against domestic terrorism. And this is where I sit back and think to myself "I knew I was right" because look at them now, crying how they need the police and how the legal system isn't doing enough.

I agree, having the confederate flag over the state capitol and naming streets after confederate generals is pretty racist and it is wrong. I also agree that the conservatives in the government right now are very hypocritical.

True, but there is always a very vocal minority when it comes to every situation and unfortunately they usually get the most attention from the media.

 

You can thank people like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and all the other people that said the police were "too militarized" in the wake of the protests in Ferguson and Baltimore. They wanted the police to scale back and have a "friendlier" look to them yet they turn around and complain that we do not take a tough enough stance against domestic terrorism. And this is where I sit back and think to myself "I knew I was right" because look at them now, crying how they need the police and how the legal system isn't doing enough.

I agree, having the confederate flag over the state capitol and naming streets after confederate generals is pretty racist and it is wrong. I also agree that the conservatives in the government right now are very hypocritical.

In terms of militarized police, I honestly think its two different conversations. I've said, and will always say that police should have every tool they (actually) need in order to fight domestic terrorism. Although Sharpton and Jackson might not be very good at articulating it, I think the overall consensus from the left is that its more of an issue of when the police should be able to use the gear, not necessarily nitpicking on what gear they can have. I think there's a big difference between using armored vehicles to apprehend Dylann Roof and parking an armored vehicle with 20+ heavily armed cops next to a peaceful protest. I don't really want to get into that now, but there's plenty of threads already open for that discussion haha.

And nobody is really crying that they need heavily armed cops, because the heavily armed cops have always been there, and were very quick to apprehend the shooter. If there's ever a time for heavily armed cops, its when there's a situation like this (also the one in Dallas). I can't seem to find the article that references this, but did you know that there's 1 person at the federal level responsible for keeping tabs on right-wing extremism? That really shows how incredibly weak our government is on domestic terrorism (at least the kinds not carried out by Muslims). 

And as I said before, Dylann Roof was quickly apprehended and will likely have every charge possible thrown at him. Who's crying about how we need police and how the legal system isn't doing enough...?

I can't seem to find the article that references this, but did you know that there's 1 person at the federal level responsible for keeping tabs on right-wing extremism? That really shows how incredibly weak our government is on domestic terrorism (at least the kinds not carried out by Muslims). 

I would like to see that article because I am sure it is either completely false or taking something out of context. I know at the federal law enforcement level there are plenty of people who track track violent extremist from both the left and right. Law enforcement knows that there are very dangerous extremist (not just Muslims) in our country and they do what they can to stop them but it is a very complicated situation.

 

The confederate flag flies over the capitol of South Carolina, and black people in the south are forced to drive on roads named after confederate generals that fought tooth and nail to keep their ancestors enslaved. That's wrong. 150 years later, we still haven't gotten over the civil war. The confederate flag shouldn't stand for southern pride, it's a flag of treason and racism.

 

It does not fly over the capitol, it's over a monument. This is a point that is so aggravating right now. The rest of the country and the world has not idea what the confederate flag means. They automatically assume it means racism and treason. It does not. The KKK made it represent racism. The South stood for something they believed in while the rest of the country went to crap. It's the same people people that believe the Civil War was fought over slaves. That's ignorance at it's finest. There is heritage and pride in the fact that our ancestors stood up for themselves against a government that would not help them. The whole war can be debated and the fact is that both sides are right (I'm not gonna argue over the reasons for the war). But the Confederate flag has deep meaning to a lot of people. And it does not mean racism!!!

 

 

 

It does not fly over the capitol, it's over a monument. This is a point that is so aggravating right now. The rest of the country and the world has not idea what the confederate flag means. They automatically assume it means racism and treason. It does not. The KKK made it represent racism. The South stood for something they believed in while the rest of the country went to crap. It's the same people people that believe the Civil War was fought over slaves. That's ignorance at it's finest. There is heritage and pride in the fact that our ancestors stood up for themselves against a government that would not help them. The whole war can be debated and the fact is that both sides are right (I'm not gonna argue over the reasons for the war). But the Confederate flag has deep meaning to a lot of people. And it does not mean racism!!!

 

 

 

This is a point that I don't understand. I'll explain why below with a similar situation, the swastika. 

If I were to wave a confederate flag on my profile here on the forum, would my account receive sanctions? If not, would it be because of what you described above? If the answer is yes, then why is a swastika any different? If I can wave a confederate flag because of the reasons you've mentioned, Pavelow, then can't I also wave a swastika to represent peace and tranquility? Or would my account receive sanctions for having a swastika up, supposedly representing Nazism? This whole concept of, something is only bad if you look at the bad it was used for, doesn't make any sense to me. 

This is a point that I don't understand. I'll explain why below with a similar situation, the swastika. 

If I were to wave a confederate flag on my profile here on the forum, would my account receive sanctions? If not, would it be because of what you described above? If the answer is yes, then why is a swastika any different? If I can wave a confederate flag because of the reasons you've mentioned, Pavelow, then can't I also wave a swastika to represent peace and tranquility? Or would my account receive sanctions for having a swastika up, supposedly representing Nazism? This whole concept of, something is only bad if you look at the bad it was used for, doesn't make any sense to me. 

Amen to all of that.

The Swastica symbolizes German strength and good luck, only if you are willing to completely ignore the history of its use. Great point, DivineHustle.

This is a point that I don't understand. I'll explain why below with a similar situation, the swastika. 

If I were to wave a confederate flag on my profile here on the forum, would my account receive sanctions? If not, would it be because of what you described above? If the answer is yes, then why is a swastika any different? If I can wave a confederate flag because of the reasons you've mentioned, Pavelow, then can't I also wave a swastika to represent peace and tranquility? Or would my account receive sanctions for having a swastika up, supposedly representing Nazism? This whole concept of, something is only bad if you look at the bad it was used for, doesn't make any sense to me. 

Because the swastika represents mass murder off millions of innocents and the dream of conquering the world and oppressing the population. There's no getting around it. It was used specifically as the seal/symbol/flag for the Nazis. Germany at that time was just bad; their whole 'manifesto' was racist and 'evil'. The Confederate States didn't try nor want to kill off an entire group of people. The CSA did not want to conquer the world. They didn't have an 'agenda' or 'manifesto'. They simply wanted to better themselves. Yes, unfortunately slavery was practiced but that was just how agriculture around the world was (I'm not saying I'm for it). Many countries practiced it still, and it was efficient for them. As a side note, I believe slavery would be dead in modern times due to advanced technology (1 machine can perform the task of 100 people) even if the Emancipation Proclamation or any state or federal laws regarding indentured servitude hadn't been passed.

 

The Confederate flag represented nothing more than a group of people standing up for themselves when they felt they were being neglected by their government. Basically what we did when we rebelled against England. They gave us the shit end of the stick, so we fought to stand up for ourselves. That's exactly what happened with the Confederate States of America. 

 

**DISCLAIMER** I don't actually believe the Civil War was right or just, but I do respect those that stood up for themselves when they felt they were being raped by the government. 

 

The swastika was used to represent Nazism. These are the 25 points to Hitler's Nazi Party.

The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party 1 We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples. 2 We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated. 3 We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population. 4 Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman. 5 Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens. 6 The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.  We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favour of the party without regard to character and fitness. 7 We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich. 8 Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately. 9 All citizens must possess equal rights and duties. 10 The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.  Therefore we demand: 11 That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished. 12 Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits. 13 We demand the nationalization of all trusts. 14 We demand profit-sharing in large industries. 15 We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions. 16 We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalisation of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small trades people, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities. 17 We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land. 18 We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race. 19 We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law. 20 In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State. 21 The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centres, by prohibiting juvenile labour, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young. 22 We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army. 23 We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand: (a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.  (b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language. (c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.  Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved. 24 We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race. The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the principle:  COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD  25 In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations. The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states. The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

Edited June 22, 201510 yr by Pavelow

The Confederate flag represented nothing more than a group of people standing up for themselves when they felt they were being neglected by their government. Basically what we did when we rebelled against England. They gave us the shit end of the stick, so we fought to stand up for ourselves. That's exactly what happened with the Confederate States of America. 

Fairly ironic, considering England abolished slavery long before us, and fought for the freedom of slaves around the world. 

And you do realize that secession is one of the most un-American and treasonous things possible, right? You're literally leaving the country. Why should South Carolina keep the Confederate Flag? For what possible reason, 150 years later, could we still be celebrating the single greatest act of treason in American history?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3273/2665070763_d99bd66d81_z.jpg?zz=1

Fairly ironic, considering England abolished slavery long before us, and fought for the freedom of slaves around the world. 

And you do realize that secession is one of the most un-American and treasonous things possible, right? You're literally leaving the country. Why should South Carolina keep the Confederate Flag? For what possible reason, 150 years later, could we still be celebrating the single greatest act of treason in American history?

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3273/2665070763_d99bd66d81_z.jpg?zz=1

England only abolished it in their homeland but still allowed it on their African and Indian Colonies. Portugal, Russia, Poland, The Ottoman Empire all still had slavery around the time the Civil War was being fought. 

We're not celebrating the fact that we seceded. We're honoring those that had the balls to stand up for themselves. Which is why it was moved from on top of the state house to in front of the monument. The monument is honoring all the fallen Confederate soldiers. Fathers were willing to fight against their son for their beliefs (which is tragic, but goes to show you how strong they believed in their cause).

 

That flag is in front of the monument. Not on the State House

 

 

Edited June 22, 201510 yr by Pavelow

As Americans, if there's anything we need to take away from this, its that its about time we started looking at domestic terrorism as a serious issue. When two Muslim extremists set off bombs at the Boston Marathon, conservatives called for stopping Muslims from entering the country. And now, they're saying that nothing can be done, and we'll never understand why the shooter did it. There's a double standard here.

Nothing can be done though. What should we do? Ban white people?

Because the swastika represents mass murder off millions of innocents and the dream of conquering the world and oppressing the population. There's no getting around it. It was used specifically as the seal/symbol/flag for the Nazis. Germany at that time was just bad; their whole 'manifesto' was racist and 'evil'. The Confederate States didn't try nor want to kill off an entire group of people.

The Swastika was originally used by Native Americans, not Germany. It was originally called the "Whirling Log".

Edited June 22, 201510 yr by MayhemMercenary

The Swastika was originally used by Native Americans, not Germany. It was originally called the "Whirling Log".

Doesn't matter. It was adopted by the Nazis and that's what the swastika has come to represent. It's unfortunate. 

It does not fly over the capitol, it's over a monument. This is a point that is so aggravating right now. The rest of the country and the world has not idea what the confederate flag means. They automatically assume it means racism and treason. It does not. The KKK made it represent racism. The South stood for something they believed in while the rest of the country went to crap. It's the same people people that believe the Civil War was fought over slaves. That's ignorance at it's finest. There is heritage and pride in the fact that our ancestors stood up for themselves against a government that would not help them. The whole war can be debated and the fact is that both sides are right (I'm not gonna argue over the reasons for the war). But the Confederate flag has deep meaning to a lot of people. And it does not mean racism!!!

Sorry, but arguing it doesn't represent treason is just a load of BS.

Here's the thing about that flag: It was created as the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The battle flag, in fact. The flag was literally a standard for an army of US citizens to rally against in battle arrayed against the United States Army. It was, in fact, the very definition of a flag of treason: a flag for the express purpose of rallying people to wage war on the United States. There is no other view on it; it was not created to represent the South. It was a battle flag.

Yes, the South stood for something they believed in. Too bad. What they believed in was utterly disgusting and deserved no respect; "stand up for what you believe in" isn't a good thing if what you believe in is that

the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and moral condition.

If that is what you believe in, and you stand up for it, you deserve utter condemnation. Roof also stood up for what he believed in; he will likely die for it. No one is suggesting that that is anything even slightly good in this case. Note that that was stated by the vice president of the Confederacy, who arguably had some clue what the Confederacy was on about, to be the "foundations" and "cornerstone" of the Confederacy. To quote him further,

The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution.

...

Those ideas [that slavery was wrong], however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error.

Now, there were other contributing factors; for instance, the South had pretty much no industry, and objected quite strongly to laws that seemed to favor industry in the north (for instance, import tariffs on manufactured goods). But to claim that slavery was not among the fundamental causes of the war? That's completely unsupported by any evidence. It's an overreaction to "the war was about slavery and only slavery;" however, the truth isn't "slavery was no factor," but rather "slavery was a significant factor, among other major factors, and the South's insistence on slavery was one of the major reasons they lost the war: it made it impossible for any other country to support them, because slavery was so repulsive to all the countries that would otherwise have loved the South to be independent."

Also, it may interest you to know that England abolished slavery in all their African colonies in 1833. The Slavery Abolition Act excluded Saint Helena (in Oceania), the East India Company's territory, and Sri Lanka; it was abolished in East India Company land in 1843.

 

Edited June 22, 201510 yr by cp702

Because the swastika represents mass murder off millions of innocents and the dream of conquering the world and oppressing the population. There's no getting around it. It was used specifically as the seal/symbol/flag for the Nazis. Germany at that time was just bad; their whole 'manifesto' was racist and 'evil'. The Confederate States didn't try nor want to kill off an entire group of people. The CSA did not want to conquer the world. They didn't have an 'agenda' or 'manifesto'. They simply wanted to better themselves. Yes, unfortunately slavery was practiced but that was just how agriculture around the world was (I'm not saying I'm for it). Many countries practiced it still, and it was efficient for them. As a side note, I believe slavery would be dead in modern times due to advanced technology (1 machine can perform the task of 100 people) even if the Emancipation Proclamation or any state or federal laws regarding indentured servitude hadn't been passed.

 

The Confederate flag represented nothing more than a group of people standing up for themselves when they felt they were being neglected by their government. Basically what we did when we rebelled against England. They gave us the shit end of the stick, so we fought to stand up for ourselves. That's exactly what happened with the Confederate States of America. 

 

**DISCLAIMER** I don't actually believe the Civil War was right or just, but I do respect those that stood up for themselves when they felt they were being raped by the government. 

 

The swastika was used to represent Nazism. These are the 25 points to Hitler's Nazi Party.

Hidden Content

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Apparently the Nazi symbol represents hate and racism and genocide, but the Confederate flag is perfectly fine? The Confederate flag was waved as blacks were lynched, mutilated, raped, burned, beaten, whipped, killed. The Nazi flag was waved while Jews and other minority groups were sent to concentration camps and murdered in the streets. I just don't understand how anyone can say that the Confederate flag is any more appropriate than the Nazi flag, it just seems very hypocritical to me. Both represent an era of hate and violence. You can wave a flag that represents people of darkened skin being whipped and enslaved, but I can't wave a flag that represents genocide and murder? Neither is any better than the other, and mass enslavement by force is just as bad as mass murder.

 

Sorry, but arguing it doesn't represent treason is just a load of BS.

Here's the thing about that flag: It was created as the flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. The battle flag, in fact. The flag was literally a standard for an army of US citizens to rally against in battle arrayed against the United States Army. It was, in fact, the very definition of a flag of treason: a flag for the express purpose of rallying people to wage war on the United States. There is no other view on it; it was not created to represent the South. It was a battle flag.

Yes, the South stood for something they believed in. Too bad. What they believed in was utterly disgusting and deserved no respect; "stand up for what you believe in" isn't a good thing if what you believe in is that

If that is what you believe in, and you stand up for it, you deserve utter condemnation. Roof also stood up for what he believed in; he will likely die for it. No one is suggesting that that is anything even slightly good in this case. Note that that was stated by the vice president of the Confederacy, who arguably had some clue what the Confederacy was on about, to be the "foundations" and "cornerstone" of the Confederacy. To quote him further,

Now, there were other contributing factors; for instance, the South had pretty much no industry, and objected quite strongly to laws that seemed to favor industry in the north (for instance, import tariffs on manufactured goods). But to claim that slavery was not among the fundamental causes of the war? That's completely unsupported by any evidence. It's an overreaction to "the war was about slavery and only slavery;" however, the truth isn't "slavery was no factor," but rather "slavery was a significant factor, among other major factors, and the South's insistence on slavery was one of the major reasons they lost the war: it made it impossible for any other country to support them, because slavery was so repulsive to all the countries that would otherwise have loved the South to be independent."

Also, it may interest you to know that England abolished slavery in all their African colonies in 1833. The Slavery Abolition Act excluded Saint Helena (in Oceania), the East India Company's territory, and Sri Lanka; it was abolished in East India Company land in 1843.

 

I clearly stated I didn't support slavery.

Yes I understand that there was racism in the South, but there rampant racism in the North at the same time and even after the Civil War. 

You're painting the South as a country that rebelled because they just wanted to keep slaves. That's not true at all. The disparaging economic differences between the South and the North were night and day. The south was not happy with that. They didn't want to be agricultural, but the North basically forced them (due to need for cotton). The differences between Federal and States Rights. The southern states wanted more independence from the Federal Government, the northern states wanted more federal control. Yes slavery played a part (as the south was primarily agriculture), but that was not the main reason for seceding. There was a multitude of reason why, that many people ignore.

Hell, the South was about to end slavery around 1864, but it was too late, but many southern states started to recognize freed slaves. Many of the generals (Lee and Johnston) in the CSA have been quoted as saying that slavery is immoral and evil, yet they still fought. Surprisingly, non-whites who fought for the CSA were paid the same as white soldiers, yet in the Union were paid much less. So yes, slavery played a part in all the reasons the South seceded (the abolition of slavery would have devastated and wrecked the southern economy and industry) but was not the main factor. The fact that most southern states started to recognize free slaves and found memoirs from CSA politicians who were also quoted as saying that they'd like to abolish slavery, shows that the South was not fighting just for slavery. They would have given up slavery if that meant they could secede. 

 

I've yet to actually say anything about the shooting. All I'm saying is that the flag is fine to fly. It does not represent racism. Plain and simple. That's ignorant to think that. Government officials have said multiple times that the flag is not flown to represent the CSA's secession or treason, but to honor the men that fought what they believed in. 260,000 people died as a result of the war. To not honor them would be a slap in the face to their families. 

**I clearly stated I didn't support slavery. **