That's not what I'm saying at all but okay lol.

You're saying that enforcing legitimate prostitution probably won'be successful. Am I right? Then, was my explanation sufficient for you? I would really like to read any reply to it. 

What is poking me is simple.

 

Let's say prostitution is legalized. If a prostitute is detected positive to an STD, are they forbidden to prostitute themselves? If yes, who says this prostitute will not continue to do it the illegal way, just like before? Legalizing prostitution won't stop some people who are not elligible for the "job" to do it anyway. And thus police will still have to take care of those cases anyway, it won't really get rid of them.

 

And actually the whole "police won't have to take care of hookers anymore" is a bit of a false argument. Even if it's legal, no one says no incident will ever happen in those "brothels", just like incidents happen in bars or strip-clubs.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by Hystery

You're saying that enforcing legitimate prostitution probably won'be successful. Am I right? Then, was my explanation sufficient for you? I would really like to read any reply to it.

I'm saying that enforcing and monitoring legalized prostitution doesn't seem realistic. I don't think people are going to play by the "rules" of prostitution, persè, unless they receive some sort of complimentary. Otherwise they'll just continue doing what they've always done, which is break the law regardless.

What I'm trying to figure out here is HOW prostitutions can be monitored. I'm not understanding this process that you are proposing. How would anyone keep track of prostitution? It's not like you go to the store and buy your own personal whore, then it's kept on file. A lot of prostitutes take post on the street corner and go from there. How can you monitor that? I just don't understand what you're saying when you say it would require a license. Even when I read back it still doesn't come together. I'd like an explanation on HOW prostitution can be monitored successfully. If a girl wants to prostitute, most likely she's just gonna ignore all rules and regulations and hop in the first car that stops.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by CriminalKillaz

Should not be legal, at all. I live in Amsterdam, it's legal here..

 

Poor people, people with psychological disorders (Such as borderline, anorexia), depression, extremely low self respect etc etc. They think they don't have a choice, but they do. I had to deal with this IRL myself (Not as the prostitute, as a close one to the girl) and it was no fun. Speaking of depression.

 

Then there's the ones who acually choose to do it, wether they do it because they have sexual exceeding behaviour or they just like sex, or wether they do it just for the money. I say their sick and twisted; how can you do that to yourself? I'm not talking about expensive escorts; I'm talking about places like De Wallen (Amsterdam), where there are even (Illegaly though) underaged girls selling their body's.

 

This would be the line of work I have absolutely no respect for, never.

I'm saying that enforcing and monitoring legalized prostitution doesn't seem realistic. I don't think people are going to play by the "rules" of prostitution, persè, unless they receive some sort of complimentary. Otherwise they'll just continue doing what they've always done, which is break the law regardless.

What I'm trying to figure out here is HOW prostitutions can be monitored. I'm not understanding this process that you are proposing. How would anyone keep track of prostitution? It's not like you go to the store and buy your own personal whore, then it's kept on file. A lot of prostitutes take post on the street corner and go from there. How can you monitor that? I just don't understand what you're saying when you say it would require a license. Even when I read back it still doesn't come together. I'd like an explanation on HOW prostitution can be monitored successfully. If a girl wants to prostitute, most likely she's just gonna ignore all rules and regulations and hop in the first car that stops.

>A lot of prostitutes take post on the street corner and go from there. How can you monitor that? 

 

A call to the police, a surveillance cam or a car cam, a witness.. You know, what you are saying is applicable to almost ANY violation yet the law enforcement manages to handle them. 

 

>most likely she's just gonna ignore all rules and regulations and hop in the first car that stops.

And will end up behind bars, just like now when cops see a hooker. However with legalization comes responsibility. Engaging in prostitution without a licence or on the street should result in a heavy penalty. And why would I pick an illegal hooker who has no health certificate, price list, complaint number, if I can go to a legal brothel? Demand and supply. 

>A lot of prostitutes take post on the street corner and go from there. How can you monitor that?

A call to the police, a surveillance cam or a car cam, a witness.. You know, what you are saying is applicable to almost ANY violation yet the law enforcement manages to handle them.

>most likely she's just gonna ignore all rules and regulations and hop in the first car that stops.

And will end up behind bars, just like now when cops see a hooker. However with legalization comes responsibility. Engaging in prostitution without a licence or on the street should result in a heavy penalty. And why would I pick an illegal hooker who has no health certificate, price list, complaint number, if I can go to a legal brothel? Demand and supply.

Makes sense, but let's be realistic here, Hastings. Prostitutes probably don't care about that. All they want to do is fuck for money. That's it. I think it's safe to say that they won't have the patience to deal with a bunch of systems and legalizations. They're just gonna hop in a car to make some money. I've never heard of anyone being a prostitute because they enjoy prostituting. I've only heard of people prostituting because they need to make money.

Makes sense, but let's be realistic here, Hastings. Prostitutes probably don't care about that. All they want to do is fuck for money. That's it. I think it's safe to say that they won't have the patience to deal with a bunch of systems and legalizations. They're just gonna hop in a car to make some money. I've never heard of anyone being a prostitute because they enjoy prostituting. I've only heard of people prostituting because they need to make money.

The prostitutes themselves wouldn't have to deal with the regulatory guidelines so much as the brothel owners/managers will. It works in places that have it. 

Even if there is legal prostitution, in brothel's or even on the street; it's not going to help the illegal prostitution much. As said by CriminalKillaz, they won't care about the rules. Just like any other law that is frequently broken.

The prostitutes themselves wouldn't have to deal with the regulatory guidelines so much as the brothel owners/managers will. It works in places that have it.

That's my point. Prostitutes won't want to follow ANY rules. None. Nothing. Zip. Zero. If there are ANY rules that prostitutes will have to follow, the system won't work. As I've said, all they want is sex for money. Nothing more or less.

I think it shouldn't be legalised as HIV and STD and other diseases would spread faster then anything, and there would be so many under age sex

A couple things:

First, I don't think you can make a blanket statement that "prostitutes are known to do drugs." Of course some do, but to say that they all do is impossible. However, given their situation, is it really that surprising that drug abuse could be a problem? Someone that is a victim of drug addiction could be easily persuaded into becoming a prostitute. Given the nature of prostitution and human trafficking in general, drug abuse is an easy way for for pimps/traffickers to keep their victims under easy control. Drug abuse could also be a coping method for the realities of such a difficult life. I think in this thread we've forgotten that we're talking about human beings. Real people.

Second, testing in regards to legal prostitution would be for STDs, not drugs. However, an employer might be willing to have their workers drug tested (or this could be some kind of mandate required by legalization). This would do a number of positive things. It would create a incentive for sex workers to remain drug free if they wanted to remain employed. It could also provide an entry to treatment for a sex worker to rehabilitation. A prostitute on the street isn't going to take a drug test, and they're not going to get the help they need. Legalizing prostitution could potentially open some doors to people that need help.

Finally, no one is saying that legalizing prostitution is going to eliminate the illegal trade. However, it would almost certainly decrease it. A good comparison is drug/alcohol prohibition. When drugs or alcohol are prohibited, use goes up and an illegal market flourishes. When they're legal, use generally goes down and so does illegal activity. See National Prohibition or Colorado.

Well my question is...Would they be willing to give up drugs and actually get help? Or would they rather be illegal, and still be able to do drugs?

That's my point. Prostitutes won't want to follow ANY rules. None. Nothing. Zip. Zero. If there are ANY rules that prostitutes will have to follow, the system won't work. As I've said, all they want is sex for money. Nothing more or less.

Do you have any reason why you would possibly think that's true? Keep in mind that legal prostitution has a significant advantage: there is no risk of arrest for it. If prostitutes choose to continue illegal prostitution, that's either because they're being forced to do so, because they *can't* be legal prostitutes, or because there's some competitive advantage for illegal prostitution that offsets the "you can't be arrested for it" of legal prostitution. 1ian20 gave a potential advantage in the illegal market: drugs. In contrast, all you've done is say "no, they won't obey any rules because they just won't; they don't care about the law or about arrests, and just want to have sex for money." I don't think it's reasonable to ignore the powerful incentive that not-risking-arrest provides; if you don't think it provides a powerful incentive, you'll have to provide a better argument than "they just don't care."

In addition to the supply side, you also have to look at the demand side; if demand for illegal prostitution falls, there will be less illegal prostitution. Not getting arrested is also a powerful incentive for people hiring prostitutes (if you disagree with that, then we can talk about that), which has to be balanced by an advantage of illegal prostitution if illegal prostitution isn't to lose customers to legal prostitution. 1ian20's potential advantage of the illegal market applies just as well to the demand side. Do you have an advantage for illegal prostitution for a customer? Or are you again just ignoring the idea that this is a market, and people generally respond to economic incentives?

Well my question is...Would they be willing to give up drugs and actually get help? Or would they rather be illegal, and still be able to do drugs?

I can't tell you if they'll be willing or not. However, I would prefer to at least present them the opportunity.

 

To say that they want to continue doing drugs isn't entirely accurate. Drug abuse is a disease, and isn't something easily addressed by an abuser. It's an incredibly complex issue that we could discuss for hours on end. 

I think creating a potential gateway to help is better than leaving a person to whither away to hard drugs on the streets. 

Do you have any reason why you would possibly think that's true? Keep in mind that legal prostitution has a significant advantage: there is no risk of arrest for it. If prostitutes choose to continue illegal prostitution, that's either because they're being forced to do so, because they *can't* be legal prostitutes, or because there's some competitive advantage for illegal prostitution that offsets the "you can't be arrested for it" of legal prostitution. 1ian20 gave a potential advantage in the illegal market: drugs. In contrast, all you've done is say "no, they won't obey any rules because they just won't; they don't care about the law or about arrests, and just want to have sex for money." I don't think it's reasonable to ignore the powerful incentive that not-risking-arrest provides; if you don't think it provides a powerful incentive, you'll have to provide a better argument than "they just don't care."

In addition to the supply side, you also have to look at the demand side; if demand for illegal prostitution falls, there will be less illegal prostitution. Not getting arrested is also a powerful incentive for people hiring prostitutes (if you disagree with that, then we can talk about that), which has to be balanced by an advantage of illegal prostitution if illegal prostitution isn't to lose customers to legal prostitution. 1ian20's potential advantage of the illegal market applies just as well to the demand side. Do you have an advantage for illegal prostitution for a customer? Or are you again just ignoring the idea that this is a market, and people generally respond to economic incentives?

....Because prostitutes want sex for money. It doesn't take substantial evidence or proof to support this claim. I'll go ahead and give you a blunt example of two different typical perspectives, based on what I've seen, heard, and common sense:

 

Example 1: I'm a man, and I'm horny. I decide that finding a prostitute would be the best plan of action. I get into my, or someones, car and look for a prostitute. I see one standing on the side of the road. I drive to her, briefly talk, and pick her up. We go somewhere secluded and I handle my business right then and there in the car. I pay her whatever amount we previously discussed, she gets out, and that's that. No process, no law, no guidelines, absolutely nothing. I wanted sex, and thats what I went after. Blunt sex for money. Why should I make the effort to follow legal guidelines when I have a 90% chance of succeeding in prostitution anyways? 

 

Example 2: I am a whore. I'm posted up on the corner of 77th, looking for potential customers. A car pulls up to me, we briefly discuss a few things, and I hop in. Again, we go to a secluded area and handle business. I get paid, and I'm off. No law, no guidelines, no rules. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because I don't care. All I want is the money, and I'm not going to get a license, which I'd probably have to pay some sort of fee for, just to lose money that I would have gotten without the license. Prostitutes don't give a crap. They want sex for money, that's it. They don't care about any systems or guidelines. It's like trying to regulate a 4 year old on which toy to play with on which day. The kid doesn't give a shit, he just wants to play with his damned toys.

 

Edit: You're thinking too hard on this. They don't give a shit, and I say that because it's true. When you're able to find me a prostitute that gives a damn about the law, let me know.

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by CriminalKillaz

-snip-

 

You just assume that all prostitutes don't care, you couldn't be any more wrong on that, some actually do care about their body and try to avoid STI's, if prostitution is legalized, it will be regulated, (i.e Brothels), taxed, and STI checks for both parties. Saying that they won't follow any rules is ignorant, also you can't say that the system won't work, it will as pimps and underground sex trafficking will lose lots of business.  

You just assume that all prostitutes don't care, you couldn't be any more wrong on that, some actually do care about their body and try to avoid STI's, if prostitution is legalized, it will be regulated, (i.e Brothels), taxed, and STI checks for both parties. Saying that they won't follow any rules is ignorant, also you can't say that the system won't work, it will as pimps and underground sex trafficking will lose lots of business.  

Well I actually disagree with just about everything you've said here.

 

First point. Prostitutes care about their body. To me, caring about my body isn't letting some horny creeper handle it any kind of way for a quick buck. We're so worried about whether or not the prostitute has some sort of STD or STI, what about the customer? Prostitution isn't as beautiful as it may seem here discussing. Sometimes it's a 20 year old woman and a 60 year old man. That's disgusting. The human body is a beautiful, unique, intelligent, brilliant piece of art. It deserves to be treated as so, and letting random people screw it isn't the right way to go. So no, they don't really care about their body. They're just desperate for cash.

 

LOL, this one is very funny. If I'm a whore, you expect me to abandon my pimp that I've known for 5 years to follow some law passed by the government? Hell to the no. If I'm a prostitute, I'm going to remain with my pimp, take anyone that is willing to pay, and do what I have to do to make money. Knowing the US government, the license will be accompanied by some sort of recurring fee. I'm not going to pay for a license, when my goal is to make money. That doesn't make any sense, and prostitutes won't go for it. I'm just going to do what I've been doing and hope for the best, while still making money. It's basic street knowledge.

....Because prostitutes want sex for money. It doesn't take substantial evidence or proof to support this claim. I'll go ahead and give you a blunt example of two different typical perspectives, based on what I've seen, heard, and common sense:

 

Example 1: I'm a man, and I'm horny. I decide that finding a prostitute would be the best plan of action. I get into my, or someones, car and look for a prostitute. I see one standing on the side of the road. I drive to her, briefly talk, and pick her up. We go somewhere secluded and I handle my business right then and there in the car. I pay her whatever amount we previously discussed, she gets out, and that's that. No process, no law, no guidelines, absolutely nothing. I wanted sex, and thats what I went after. Blunt sex for money. Why should I make the effort to follow legal guidelines when I have a 90% chance of succeeding in prostitution anyways? 

 

Example 2: I am a whore. I'm posted up on the corner of 77th, looking for potential customers. A car pulls up to me, we briefly discuss a few things, and I hop in. Again, we go to a secluded area and handle business. I get paid, and I'm off. No law, no guidelines, no rules. Absolutely nothing. Why? Because I don't care. All I want is the money, and I'm not going to get a license, which I'd probably have to pay some sort of fee for, just to lose money that I would have gotten without the license. Prostitutes don't give a crap. They want sex for money, that's it. They don't care about any systems or guidelines. It's like trying to regulate a 4 year old on which toy to play with on which day. The kid doesn't give a shit, he just wants to play with his damned toys.

 

Edit: You're thinking too hard on this. They don't give a shit, and I say that because it's true. When you're able to find me a prostitute that gives a damn about the law, let me know.

In regards to Example 1, why take the risk of getting caught by the police when, if it were an option, you could go to a legal brothel with no chance of legal trouble and a much higher level of safety?

 

In regards to Example 2... I'm not going to do what you've done and try to put myself into the mind of a prostitute because I've never been one and I've never talked to one (and I suspect the same is true for yourself). However, it would make more sense to work in a brothel than on the street for a pimp for several reasons. As I've said however many times now, it would be much safer. You're not going to be kidnapped, beaten up, or murdered if you're working in a brothel. You'd probably make more money as well. I don't know the average prices for the various services provided, but I'd imagine the price would be higher in a brothel than on the street or online simply because of the nature of the operation. Higher prices would result in higher wages for the workers.

 

I think you're also missing the point that prostitution, as is, very coercive in nature. Most people involved in prostitution and sex trafficking either took to it out of extreme circumstances or were forced into it (or some combination of the two). 

Well I actually disagree with just about everything you've said here.

 

First point. Prostitutes care about their body. To me, caring about my body isn't letting some horny creeper handle it any kind of way for a quick buck. We're so worried about whether or not the prostitute has some sort of STD or STI, what about the customer? Prostitution isn't as beautiful as it may seem here discussing. Sometimes it's a 20 year old woman and a 60 year old man. That's disgusting. The human body is a beautiful, unique, intelligent, brilliant piece of art. It deserves to be treated as so, and letting random people screw it isn't the right way to go. So no, they don't really care about their body. They're just desperate for cash.

 

LOL, this one is very funny. If I'm a whore, you expect me to abandon my pimp that I've known for 5 years to follow some law passed by the government? Hell to the no. If I'm a prostitute, I'm going to remain with my pimp, take anyone that is willing to pay, and do what I have to do to make money. Knowing the US government, the license will be accompanied by some sort of recurring fee. I'm not going to pay for a license, when my goal is to make money. That doesn't make any sense, and prostitutes won't go for it. I'm just going to do what I've been doing and hope for the best, while still making money. It's basic street knowledge.

 

Okay your second part is just silly, who said anything about paying for licences, you don't have to have a license, just the job itself, the government does not have to get heavily involved, oh and you would want to stay with your pimp, alright have fun getting beat and slapped around. 

That's getting more and more interesting. 

 

1.Prostitutes don't care about the law so don't make it legal.

Please correct me if I am wrong (I'm a primitive russian who now little little anglish) but how does the situation you described gets better when prostitution is illegal? Does it make it easier to obtain evidence? Or to observe perpetrators? I guess not. Then why it's better to have it illegal (putting aside the eternal morale argument) if it cannot be enforced at all? (yeah, the way you put it it cannot be enforced). 

 

2. Prostitutes don't want to be legal.

Those who are forced into this, no, they don't. Those who need money for drugs will probably ignore the regulations and continue street soliciting, you're right. However, they'll get arrested for violating the rules (just like it happens now, but with more severe consequences).

 

3. Johns don't care where to stick.

You must be kidding me. I love my health and my body and I really don't appreciate having a STD or sleeping with a dirty person. One of the reasons me and friends never called a hooker to our parties is that hell knows what can show up. But if we could call a perfectly legal brothel with health certificate and licenses, we would do so. And almost anyone except the lowest social layer representatives. Because people care about themselves. (Please, don't tell us U CANT CARE IF U SLEEP WITH WHORES. You're a shining example of morality, I got it.)

 

 

Edited March 25, 201511 yr by Hastings

I can't tell you if they'll be willing or not. However, I would prefer to at least present them the opportunity.

 

To say that they want to continue doing drugs isn't entirely accurate. Drug abuse is a disease, and isn't something easily addressed by an abuser. It's an incredibly complex issue that we could discuss for hours on end. 

I think creating a potential gateway to help is better than leaving a person to whither away to hard drugs on the streets. 

The thing is, this disease controls people. Someone with a drug addiction will literally go to the ends of the earth for money to get drugs. I think there are many gateways present that drug abusers can easily join, but most of them don't. Giving up an addiction is harder said than done. This leads me to believe that the prostitutes that are addicts (or at least many of them), will not want to switch to the legal side of things.