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Mr.Quiggles

Indictment of NYPD Ofc. Pantaleo - Innocent

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July 7th, 2014 - Eric Garner, a black man well known in the Staten Island community he was born in and raised, was strangled to death by an NYPD Cop, Daniel Pantaleo, during an encounter in a Staten Island community. Initially, Eric Garner was accused by the Police of selling cigarettes illegally, a practice he had been cited/arrested for in the past nearly 30 times. The situation escalated with the police eventually having to tackle the large man to the ground. Today, after 8 weeks of deliberation, the NYC based grand jury returned a Not Guilty indictment for the Officer, declaring there not enough evidence to indict on the proposed murder charges.
 
Now I ask, what do you think of the incident? The use of force? The indictment?
 
<opinion> 
 
If I may insert my opinion, I'd say overall, this was quite an appalling procedure to me which easily could've been averted. 
 
The choke hold, a take down procedure banned by the NYPD in 1995 (Fact check me, I might be wrong) should have not been used here, at least in my opinion. From the video, I think the man, while at times, being verbally aggressive, isn't exhibiting physical aggression towards the officers. Do take into account the camera angles are at times, difficult to view. However, it appears when on the ground, Mr. Garner is not flailing, is not rolling around, is not fighting back in any visible form yet the police officer in question continues the strangle hold. At one point, Mr. Garner expresses he cannot breath several times, and at some point within the next few minutes, dies. 
 
There was adequate backup on scene, Mr. Garner was physically passive, and the Chokehold was against NYPD practice. 
 
The New York City coroner ruled Eric Garner's Death a Homicide, citing compression of the neck and chest while in chokehold is what killed Mr. Garner. 
 
For what it's worth, I strongly supported the Not-Guilty Verdict of Officer Wilson during his time at the Ferguson, MO Police Department. However, I am quite appalled at not so much the verdict (As an indictment is difficult, especially on LEOs), but the combined Officer's actions to take down Eric Garner. It seemed unwarranted, and excessive in my eyes. 
 
Letting me down once again NYPD, smh. 
 
</opinion>
Edited by Mr.Quiggles

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I was on the fence about the Ferguson case.This one however, I believe the officer should have been charged. There was too much excessive force, the guy was literally yelling "I can't breathe." I just don't understand how the jury could dismiss that.

 

I hate how the media are quick to imply it was racially driven. Just because they are of different ethnicities, there could've been many other factors, including the sheer size of the man.

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You know the Eric garner family is suing for $75 million dollars?!? I feel bad that the guy died and it's tragic but come on now 75 million dollars, that just being greedy in my opinion, not necessary.

Also question guys, I've people talking about being arrested

1. The police are supposed to tell you what they're arresting you for, it's your right.

2. If the police are arresting you, they don't have to tell you and you have to wait until you get down to the station.

Which one is the right one?


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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You know the Eric garner family is suing for $75 million dollars?!? I feel bad that the guy died and it's tragic but come on now 75 million dollars, that just being greedy in my opinion, not necessary.

Also question guys, I've people talking about being arrested

1. The police are supposed to tell you what they're arresting you for, it's your right.

2. If the police are arresting you, they don't have to tell you and you have to wait until you get down to the station.

Which one is the right one?

 

In the immediate moment they do not have to tell you why you're being arrested. Generally, they will worry about taking the person into custody first. Nor do will you have your rights read to you unless they plan on asking you testimonial questions. (I.E. they can ask you your name and routine booking questions)

 

As for the use of force here, I believe it was justified in terms of it not being a criminal action. You have to do what you have to do to effect an arrest. While the choke hold is banned by NYPD doesn't mean it's illegal, that is only a policy. Additionally, his death was caused, largely, due to his health. Please watch the video and hold your breath for the time he is in the choke hold. It's not long. If you don't have the health to fight the police then don't.

 

With this in mind I don't agree with the choke hold, it's not something I would use. But within the parameters of the law it is not a crime. And I expect the family will get a very large sum of money as they will be compensated for their loss and a large punitive damage will be awarded to discourage officers from using choke holds or what may be used as "excessive force" and also with all the pressure from the media i'm sure the damages will be inflated.

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Protests continued Thursday over a grand jury's decision not to indict a white NYPD police officer, Daniel Pantaleo, in the chokehold death of an unarmed black man, Eric Garner. Yahoo News is providing live updates of the second day of demonstrations and rallies in New York City and around the country.

 
I'm becoming a bit concerned about all this hate towards Police recently.

It takes a particularly intelligent person to hold a civilized political discussion with someone on the opposite side. 

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Riots are not gonna happen. If you noticed yesterday before the Christmas Tree Lighting, most of the protest are peaceful and are in compliant to NYPD, in fact NYPD are helping them by stopping traffic to let them cross the street and such. I saw them on the way home when I passed through Grand Central. Not violent in any sense. 

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Why does the media & people always say a white officer and a black man? Skin color has nothing to do with this in my opinion!

 

 


''A quiet man, is a thinking man. A quiet woman, is usually mad.''

 

TateDecleatsLee.gif

 

 

 

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I am also concerned.

I do not like the current NY mayor, De Blasio. He's practically a co-mayor, and he is essentially supporting hate against the police. Not to mention, he's always late and runs red lights in the city... But that's beside the point.

I want him out of office so bad. He has done no good, in my eyes, for our beautiful city, and I would like to see someone responsible, like Bloomberg, step back in.

 

May I ask, who looks like the mayor here?

pic_giant_080514_SM_Al-Sharpton-Bill-de-

deblasio_sharpton.jpg

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I am also concerned.

I do not like the current NY mayor, De Blasio. He's practically a co-mayor, and he is essentially supporting hate against the police. Not to mention, he's always late and runs red lights in the city... But that's beside the point.

 

Forget the mayor! Look at the President! And AG Holder! Their doing everything they can NOT to support the officers, (Fergy and NYC), despite the fact that a jury of their peers proved that they were not in the wrong. A civil rights investigation?! Really!!??!? Skin color means jack squat here. The fact of the matter is that both of these men (who happen to be African American) were in the wrong! EMT's were on scene and did not treat Garner because he was saying "I can't breath!" IF YOU'RE TALKING, YOU'RE BREATHING!

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Typical media, making every cop case a race thing, pitiful, we all know that if this story got so much publicity because it was a white man and a black civilian. Poor Eric, I feel bad for his family, he did NOT deserve to die.


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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Why does the media & people always say a white officer and a black man? Skin color has nothing to do with this in my opinion!

 

its because they are trying to ignite a race war that's all that's being thrown around in news articles black officer white officer 5 black jurors 7 white jurors black this white this blah blah blah that's why I don't pay attention to the so called "news"

Forget the mayor! Look at the President! And AG Holder! Their doing everything they can NOT to support the officers, (Fergy and NYC), despite the fact that a jury of their peers proved that they were not in the wrong. A civil rights investigation?! Really!!??!? Skin color means jack squat here. The fact of the matter is that both of these men (who happen to be African American) were in the wrong! EMT's were on scene and did not treat Garner because he was saying "I can't breath!" IF YOU'RE TALKING, YOU'RE BREATHING!

 

al Sharpton and odumbo are race baiters

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I also agree this is another example of the racial industrial complex our nation finds itself struggling today.  Race had nothing to do with this incident, once again....  Without addressing the police state NY has become, anyone else have an issue with the way EMT/Paramedics handled that incident.  I don't have the training, but common sense says that if you respond to an incident and the patient is complaining about not being able to breathe you would put them on O2.  I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part I would think that would be a reasonable common sense approach.  They just seemed to be very casual about everything, no sense of urgency.  I thought I saw her take his pulse but I don't remember her even checking his airway?  Any working as a EMT/Paramedic correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel proper life saving measures taken immediately probably would have saved his life.  If you're a first responder you can't afford to get complacent in the job.  Whether you're a FF, EMT/Paramedic, or Police Officer, complacency kills.

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Just don't get it. The cop strangled the man to death for no reason. In my world they call it a murder, and I sure don't give a damn that he was arguing with the cops or selling without a license. That's gone too far. Fire and prosecute the murderer, for God's sake, he's a maniac. 

 

I always support LEOs and officials because I understand the importance of their job and all what comes with it. But this... Saying that it's OK to choke a man on purpose just to punish him for being rude opens up a great world of possibilities where we don't need courts or prisons. 

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I also agree this is another example of the racial industrial complex our nation finds itself struggling today.  Race had nothing to do with this incident, once again....  Without addressing the police state NY has become, anyone else have an issue with the way EMT/Paramedics handled that incident.  I don't have the training, but common sense says that if you respond to an incident and the patient is complaining about not being able to breathe you would put them on O2.  I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule but for the most part I would think that would be a reasonable common sense approach.  They just seemed to be very casual about everything, no sense of urgency.  I thought I saw her take his pulse but I don't remember her even checking his airway?  Any working as a EMT/Paramedic correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel proper life saving measures taken immediately probably would have saved his life.  If you're a first responder you can't afford to get complacent in the job.  Whether you're a FF, EMT/Paramedic, or Police Officer, complacency kills.

 

Complacency.

Criminals fake medical conditions all the time, ranging from difficulty breathing, to chest pains, to faking seizures, etc. I've even heard a suspect say he had AIDS that was acting up and needed to go to the hospital right away.

 

It's like they think that if they are sick they will just go to the hospital and then be released to go home.

 

So a lot of officers and EMT's can get callous and seem uncaring when a criminal claims to have a medical issue during the arrest., because they hear the same thing every day from liars that are wasting their time and effort, tying up emergency response personnel, and putting innocent people that are experiencing legitimate medical conditions at risk by doing so.

Despite that, every claim of medical issue is treated seriously, which is why the medics were called for Eric Garner.

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Garner didn't deserve to die. But, I also believe his death is just the end result of his poor choices. He chose to break the law multiple times. He'd been arrested more than 30 times for various crimes including assault and grand larceny, and at the time of this incident he was out on bail after being arrested for illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, possession of marijuana, and false impersonation. He then chose to break the law again by continuing to sell cigarettes and resisting arrest when he got caught again. The police are allowed to use physical force to arrest you if you do not comply with their verbal commands, which is why the officer wasn't indicted. Garner also wasn't asphyxiated, he died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance.The officer didn't break the law, so he couldn't be charged with a crime since he didn't commit one.

If Mr. Garner had chosen not to break the law or chosen not to resist arrest that day, he would still be alive today.

Just don't get it. The cop strangled the man to death for no reason. In my world they call it a murder, and I sure don't give a damn that he was arguing with the cops or selling without a license. That's gone too far. Fire and prosecute the murderer, for God's sake, he's a maniac. 

 

I always support LEOs and officials because I understand the importance of their job and all what comes with it. But this... Saying that it's OK to choke a man on purpose just to punish him for being rude opens up a great world of possibilities where we don't need courts or prisons. 

 

The grand jury found that the cop did NOT strangle Garner to death. Garner died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. The grand jury determined that he officer applied reasonable force using a technique he was taught in the academy to subdue a suspect that was resisting a lawful arrest.

 

You are welcome to believe that it was wrong, but your belief does not make it illegal. The 23 people on the grand jury who were presented with all of the evidence and facts determined that no crime was committed as defined by law.

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Complacency.

Criminals fake medical conditions all the time, ranging from difficulty breathing, to chest pains, to faking seizures, etc. I've even heard a suspect say he had AIDS that was acting up and needed to go to the hospital right away.

 

It's like they think that if they are sick they will just go to the hospital and then be released to go home.

 

So a lot of officers and EMT's can get callous and seem uncaring when a criminal claims to have a medical issue during the arrest., because they hear the same thing every day from liars that are wasting their time and effort, tying up emergency response personnel, and putting innocent people that are experiencing legitimate medical conditions at risk by doing so.

Despite that, every claim of medical issue is treated seriously, which is why the medics were called for Eric Garner.

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Garner didn't deserve to die. But, I also believe his death is just the end result of his poor choices. He chose to break the law multiple times. He'd been arrested more than 30 times for various crimes including assault and grand larceny, and at the time of this incident he was out on bail after being arrested for illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, possession of marijuana, and false impersonation. He then chose to break the law again by continuing to sell cigarettes and resisting arrest when he got caught again. The police are allowed to use physical force to arrest you if you do not comply with their verbal commands, which is why the officer wasn't indicted. Garner also wasn't asphyxiated, he died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance.The officer didn't break the law, so he couldn't be charged with a crime since he didn't commit one.

If Mr. Garner had chosen not to break the law or chosen not to resist arrest that day, he would still be alive today.

 

The grand jury found that the cop did NOT strangle Garner to death. Garner died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. The grand jury determined that he officer applied reasonable force using a technique he was taught in the academy to subdue a suspect that was resisting a lawful arrest.

 

You are welcome to believe that it was wrong, but your belief does not make it illegal. The 23 people on the grand jury who were presented with all of the evidence and facts determined that no crime was committed as defined by law.

 

But, doesn't new york law state you can't use a choke hole?


"Micheal, Micheal Micheal, what would you do without me?"

 

- Trevor Phillips. 

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But, doesn't new york law state you can't use a choke hole?

 

No, it doesn't.

The NYPD has changed their policy to prohibit police officers from using that technique anymore, but that is NYPD policy and not law.

Furthermore, the technique the officer claims to have used is one in which you use your opposite hand to brace your take down arm specifically to avoid compression of the suspect's wind pipe. The maneuver is designed to provide leverage through your body weight to throw the suspect off balance and take them to the ground. The officer has stated that was his intent, only to take Garner to the ground, using a standard maneuver that he was taught during the Academy.

 

The last time I researched this incident, the Medical Examiner's office also stated that Garner's death was caused by cardiac arrest and an asthma attack, which was triggered by "compression of the chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police". He was not asphyxiated, meaning he was not choked to death.

The police could not have reasonably known how poor Garner's health was, and even if they had, they would have had to be intentionally trying to harm him in order for a crime to have been committed.  The law focuses a lot on what someone's intent was when something happens. There is a big difference between intentionally trying to harm someone, and an accident. The grand jury found that they didn't intend to harm him and were only attempting to affect a lawful arrest.

 

He didn't deserve to die, and any loss of life is a tragedy. But he also shouldn't have broken the law or resisted the police, and I believe that people need to be held responsible fro their own actions and the consequences they carry. Garner's poor health and poor choices were a causal factor in his death, and the police had nothing to do with either of those factors.

Edited by johnclark1102

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The grand jury found that the cop did NOT strangle Garner to death. Garner died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. The grand jury determined that he officer applied reasonable force using a technique he was taught in the academy to subdue a suspect that was resisting a lawful arrest.

 

You are welcome to believe that it was wrong, but your belief does not make it illegal. The 23 people on the grand jury who were presented with all of the evidence and facts determined that no crime was committed as defined by law.

Thank you for allowing me to believe freely. 

 

About that "no crime if the law says so" thing. You know, in 1937 in Russia it was legal to execute everyone who didn't uphold Stalin. In Nazi Germany it was no a crime by the law to execute Jews yet Nazi leaders were charged for that. 

 

Law is not above all. People make laws, people can be wrong. Just as a decent cop who overestimated himself and killed a man for nothing. 

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Complacency.

Criminals fake medical conditions all the time, ranging from difficulty breathing, to chest pains, to faking seizures, etc. I've even heard a suspect say he had AIDS that was acting up and needed to go to the hospital right away.

 

It's like they think that if they are sick they will just go to the hospital and then be released to go home.

 

So a lot of officers and EMT's can get callous and seem uncaring when a criminal claims to have a medical issue during the arrest., because they hear the same thing every day from liars that are wasting their time and effort, tying up emergency response personnel, and putting innocent people that are experiencing legitimate medical conditions at risk by doing so.

Despite that, every claim of medical issue is treated seriously, which is why the medics were called for Eric Garner.

Don't get me wrong, Mr. Garner didn't deserve to die. But, I also believe his death is just the end result of his poor choices. He chose to break the law multiple times. He'd been arrested more than 30 times for various crimes including assault and grand larceny, and at the time of this incident he was out on bail after being arrested for illegally selling cigarettes, driving without a license, possession of marijuana, and false impersonation. He then chose to break the law again by continuing to sell cigarettes and resisting arrest when he got caught again. The police are allowed to use physical force to arrest you if you do not comply with their verbal commands, which is why the officer wasn't indicted. Garner also wasn't asphyxiated, he died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance.The officer didn't break the law, so he couldn't be charged with a crime since he didn't commit one.

If Mr. Garner had chosen not to break the law or chosen not to resist arrest that day, he would still be alive today.

 

The grand jury found that the cop did NOT strangle Garner to death. Garner died from cardiac arrest in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. The grand jury determined that he officer applied reasonable force using a technique he was taught in the academy to subdue a suspect that was resisting a lawful arrest.

 

You are welcome to believe that it was wrong, but your belief does not make it illegal. The 23 people on the grand jury who were presented with all of the evidence and facts determined that no crime was committed as defined by law.

 

Well, first of all, faking or not, medical teams, doctors, EMTs and whatsoever they can be called shouldn't BY ANY MEAN even look like uncaring and get callous. They are supposed to save lives, and using the argument of "They meet people faking stuff everyday" shouldn't be a valid argument. Fake or not, they should respond to every call with the same attention, and should NEVER be or look like uncaring or get callous. If they do, then they should change of job and do something else. I do believe they are partially responsible for the death of Garner for not taking care of him properly, as he should have been taken care of like any other victim if the EMTs did their job correctly.

 

Second, indeed the choices of this sir in particular were poor regarding the law, but seriously, wasn't there any other way to neutralize him and bring him to the station safely? Even a good ol' taser seems more legit in that case than a choke hold, the street is not a wrestling ring. Even if the cop wasn't responsible for the death of this guy, he should be sentenced for excessive use of force. He's a cop, he's supposed to be an example to the community, acting like a retarded street fighter is clearly not an example.

 

Also, a cardiac arrest can be induced by a lack of oxygen, relating to the suffocating grasp he underwent. An autopsy should be made to define clearly if that was the cause of the cardiac arrest, and death.

 

And finally, yes the grand jury took this decision, but there's an old saying that could apply to this case in particular: "To err is human". A miscarriage of justice might happen. Might be the case here. I believe so.

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Thank you for allowing me to believe freely. 

 

About that "no crime if the law says so" thing. You know, in 1937 in Russia it was legal to execute everyone who didn't uphold Stalin. In Nazi Germany it was no a crime by the law to execute Jews yet Nazi leaders were charged for that. 

 

Law is not above all. People make laws, people can be wrong. Just as a decent cop who overestimated himself and killed a man for nothing. 

 

Every person has the right to have and express their own opinions, even if other people disagree with it.

 

I'm Jewish. Some of my family fled Nazi Germany. Some survived with numbers on their arms. Some died there. I'm well aware of what happened during that time period. Also, that's not relevant to this incident. In both of the time periods you referred to, someone else decided to kill people because of what they believed or what they said. No one decided to kill Eric Garner; his death was an accident that wouldn't have happened if he had simply accepted the fact that he got caught breaking the law again and went with the officers willingly.

 

And yes, I agree that people make laws and that people make mistakes. That's why I wish that everyone who gets so angry about the current state of our country would direct their anger and frustration at the POLITICIANS who make the laws and hold them accountable, instead of the police officers on the street who are sworn to uphold the laws. If people would direct their frustration at the politicians, the laws might change.

Edited by johnclark1102

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There is one thing that is being overlooked here, when you have a man of his size pumped up on adrenalin it makes it extremely difficult to take him down, when the choke hold was applied in this case it was done in an effort to gain control of a large man resisting arrest. I myself have used the choke hold in order to gain control of a large perp.Do I think this guy was abused, no the officers used that force that is necessary to effect an arrest which in New York is totally legal and although the choke hold was banned by NYPD it was not a violation of the use of force.

Edited by gatekeeper

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