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BREAKING NEWS: Shots fired at Fort Hood Military Base.


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You can't compare a gun to a knife.. 2 completely different things.. might as well throw car accidents in there too, makes me curious though, why defend gun use age if there are more & more shootings with these yet legal firearms & compare that to A knife incident? & FYI there ARE certain knives that are illegal.. Guns give people an unnecessary "temptation" to do something very stupid just because an individual(s) looked at you funny or just did something you didn't like.

 

 

A knife is just as dangerous if not more. I cannot jam, stick, run out of ammunition, and an attacker doesn't require training on how to use it. (Yes that is a quote from Flashpoint for anyone paying attention.) Also, a person within 21 feet of you with a knife can be on top of you and doing serious damage basically in the blink of an eye. Yes some knives are illegal, just a some firearms are illegal. I carry a folding knife daily, potentially I can have the same "temptation" to do something just as stupid. I'm with Darkangel, people are the problem, guns are simply a tool being used to carry out these terrible acts of violence. 

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You can't compare a gun to a knife.. 2 completely different things.. might as well throw car accidents in there too, makes me curious though, why defend gun use age if there are more & more shootings with these yet legal firearms & compare that to A knife incident? & FYI there ARE certain knives that are illegal.. Guns give people an unnecessary "temptation" to do something very stupid just because an individual(s) looked at you funny or just did something you didn't like.

 

Let's redo this shooting and put guns in the holsters of several others in the area, could almost guarantee the shooter would have either a) not gone through with it as imminent threats to a coward that shoots and then escapes consequences by putting a bullet in his sick head often deters them or b) ended with the shooter dead within moments of opening fire

 

How do I know this? Past situations, I can cite sources tomorrow when I have time to include them in here, but majority of shootings or possible shootings that occur within zones with armed civilians/armed members of government departments are very minimal in effect compared to those in gun free zones. 

 

I would be more comfortable with a society armed than a society not armed leaving the criminals with illegal weapons, nutbags with weapons, and the corrupt government with weapons.

 

And yes, [insert said nation] does do fine without weapons. That argument has been used before, so before anyone tries and uses another nations as an example of a gun free society, America has and will always love guns. Most of the time, those committing the crimes with weapons are not the legal gun owners. The Liberal media just tends to highlight situations that continue to push the nation closer to the gun free, socialistic liberal paradise America is turning into. 

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And yes, [insert said nation] does do fine without weapons. That argument has been used before, so before anyone tries and uses another nations as an example of a gun free society, America has and will always love guns. Most of the time, those committing the crimes with weapons are not the legal gun owners. The Liberal media just tends to highlight situations that continue to push the nation closer to the gun free, socialistic liberal paradise America is turning into. 

 

I'm glad you pointed that out.  People always try to compare the US to Canada or the UK or wherever else saying "but they do fine without guns".  It somewhat works over here or over there because for the last who knows how many decades, guns have been outlawed.  There's bound to be more guns than people in the US and to just start implementing gun control would be absolutely pointless as there's simply too many guns and the only people to lose out would be innocents who can't defend themselves any more.  I don't think criminals would be lining up to give their guns away.

 

It's important to note though that there is a huge gun problem, and I don't really think there's a solution.  I do disagree with the idea that the base being a weapon free zone is at fault though.  When you have a base as large as this one appears to be, the biggest in the US as far as I know, with tens of thousands of troops carrying tens of thousands of weapons, you're just asking for trouble.  I think an important distinction to make is that while yes, in this case, the 1% of the time if you will, had there been armed troops, the killing spree would not have carried over to another building.  But, the rest of the time, the 99%, keeping guns controlled on the base is a good idea as it stops accidental discharges, malfunctions and reduces the ability for someone having a bad day to share their bad day with others through bullets.  The majority of soldiers might be highly trained and disciplined, but there's always going to be bad eggs, and you can see this from the way coalition forces have tortured people in the middle east, turned on each other and done things out of spite or to show off to their peers.  I think it's entirely feasible that if large military bases aren't gun free zones, you could easily eclipse the number of deaths from this incident through accidental discharge alone.

 

Regardless, I don't think this topic should be the gun control debate all over again, I think it should be related to the actual subject at hand so discussion regarding the security policy of the base is fine, but gun control as a wider issue should be debated in the dedicated topic for it.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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You can't compare a gun to a knife.. 2 completely different things.. might as well throw car accidents in there too, makes me curious though, why defend gun use age if there are more & more shootings with these yet legal firearms & compare that to A knife incident? & FYI there ARE certain knives that are illegal.. Guns give people an unnecessary "temptation" to do something very stupid just because an individual(s) looked at you funny or just did something you didn't like.

 

 

Not even going to try to debate with you on here giving your past posts. If you want to hear my entire opinion with facts and sources hit me up with a PM.

 

 

Back on topic. Hopefully this is will the kick they needed to take mental health seriously... Even though I doubt they will.

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You can't compare a gun to a knife.. 2 completely different things.. might as well throw car accidents in there too, makes me curious though, why defend gun use age if there are more & more shootings with these yet legal firearms & compare that to A knife incident? & FYI there ARE certain knives that are illegal.. Guns give people an unnecessary "temptation" to do something very stupid just because an individual(s) looked at you funny or just did something you didn't like.

 

 

A gun is a tool just like a knife, you can still kill or harm someone just as easily.

 

Guns don't kill people, people kill people

 

Also think about this, if most of those military personnel had guns I can almost bet the shootings would have stopped much sooner and less people would have been hurt/killed

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This boils down to America's horrendous excuse for a mental health system, not guns. Like Sam said, right now, in America, where guns have been legal to own since the founding of the country, we likely have more guns than people. I myself own a Walther PK .380 and a 12 gauge shotgun. I carry the Walther PK 380 daily, concealed, as I have a concealed handgun license. I have never had the urge or desire to harm someone with the guns I own. I have them because I am, in my opinion, too physically small and weak to protect my wife if someone does come into our home and want to harm us. I carry the pistol concealed for the same reason when I am with her on the streets. If someone wants to hurt and kill us, I can hopefully brandish the pistol. If they continue, I can fire the pistol in the air. If they still don't stop, I will have to shoot them, and I will have that horrible choice on my mind for the rest of my days. But I saved HER, which I couldn't normally have done. I do not want to take a life. I am blessed to not have (to my knowledge) any severe mental issues, because, as I said before, I don't actively think about, or have a desire just to shoot someone for the hell of it, like real life were just another video game.

 

Our gun system is flawed because our mental health system is atrocious. There are no mental health checks in place for a person purchasing a weapon. I think if they were to analyze a person's mindset more effectively, they could descriminate (perhaps a bad choice of word) who should own a gun. 

 

And, also as Sam said, banning guns just keeps them out of the hands of people who follow the law. Everyone thinks that making guns completely illegal would stop the criminals from getting a hold of them. Uh, no. Think about this for a second. They are CRIMINALS. They already break the law! They will still find a use guns illegally, because that is what criminals do. Also, if you think about this for a second, banning guns would cause more crime. How? Simple. You just created an extremely lucrative black market for the importation and illegal selling of firearms. Now you have more crime, criminals are still getting firearms because they are criminals and have never had a concern to follow the law, and genuine law-abiding citizens who could use said weapons for their own protection now can't legally own a weapon, and become victims much more easily than before.

 

I know just because I own a gun doesn't mean I'm safe. Of course not. I'm a human and I'm fallable and I'm sure someone with skill could disarm me and use my own weapon against me. But the fact is is that at least I attempted to not be a victim, and just because I own a gun doesn't mean I want to go out and murder someone. That's irrational thinking and branding and it's moronic. That's the same as saying that someone who has a beer in their fridge is a full-blown dysfunctional alcoholic, or someone who owns a car has it so they can drive up on the sidewalk and kill people.

 

No. Beer is usually owned by alcoholics, sure. And sometimes when a deranged individual has a car they do go on rampages and run people down. But again, this boils down to the individuals mindset, and their lack of help or their lack of desire to seek help, or the health system and government's lack of interest in the warning signs.   

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I'm glad you pointed that out.  People always try to compare the US to Canada or the UK or wherever else saying "but they do fine without guns".  It somewhat works over here or over there because for the last who knows how many decades, guns have been outlawed.  There's bound to be more guns than people in the US and to just start implementing gun control would be absolutely pointless as there's simply too many guns and the only people to lose out would be innocents who can't defend themselves any more.  I don't think criminals would be lining up to give their guns away.

 

It's important to note though that there is a huge gun problem, and I don't really think there's a solution.  I do disagree with the idea that the base being a weapon free zone is at fault though.  When you have a base as large as this one appears to be, the biggest in the US as far as I know, with tens of thousands of troops carrying tens of thousands of weapons, you're just asking for trouble.  I think an important distinction to make is that while yes, in this case, the 1% of the time if you will, had there been armed troops, the killing spree would not have carried over to another building.  But, the rest of the time, the 99%, keeping guns controlled on the base is a good idea as it stops accidental discharges, malfunctions and reduces the ability for someone having a bad day to share their bad day with others through bullets.  The majority of soldiers might be highly trained and disciplined, but there's always going to be bad eggs, and you can see this from the way coalition forces have tortured people in the middle east, turned on each other and done things out of spite or to show off to their peers.  I think it's entirely feasible that if large military bases aren't gun free zones, you could easily eclipse the number of deaths from this incident through accidental discharge alone.

 

Regardless, I don't think this topic should be the gun control debate all over again, I think it should be related to the actual subject at hand so discussion regarding the security policy of the base is fine, but gun control as a wider issue should be debated in the dedicated topic for it.

I agree, I do not believe every man and their mother should have a weapon, but if more people were armed I am certain the shooter would not have gone through or inflicted as much damage. I would say the same about the Newtown shooting etc.

 

However, just as you said, it goes the other way aswell. I could just as easily argue the opposite stating more guns could and has lead to more violence. 

As said above, mental health is another huge issue. To get away from the natural gun debate, I would love to see some of the more intellectual members of the site dig into their thoughts on our military and their treatment when they come back.

I am situated near a rather large military base and do my best to volunteer often to assist barrack clean ups etc for when troops come back. After speaking with many of them, they seem to share a similar feeling upon their return which is along the lines of: Supported by America(citizens), hung dry by America(government). The lack of support for mentally unstable soldiers(which after war I am sure almost all are), the lack of funding for them, and general disregard of soldiers after they return home is sickening. And for military issues, I feel it plays a big role, a broader shooting debate has a lot of issues that could be discussed :P

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