I just wanted to remind you what you've done 15 years ago , in a little country called Serbia , 78 nights and days your Air Forces throwed bombs on the Capital City , Belgrade . At the end , we lost the Kosovo , one of the most important place in our country with a plenty big amount of churchs .

Edited March 24, 201412 yr by SgtMckinson

What about the genocide had been going on for years before the NATO (hey, they wasn't only the 'muricans) intervened and the UN had failed to stop?

 

When there's some civil war, ethnic cleansing, etc. and the NATO doesn't intervene they critize the NATO.

 

When there's some civil war, ethnic cleansing, etc. and the NATO intervenes they critize the NATO as well.

 

???

Edited March 24, 201412 yr by strike

The UN and not only the US intervened in the Yugoslav wars:

 

 

Often described as Europe's deadliest conflict since World War II, the conflicts have become infamous for the war crimes involved, including ethnic cleansing, crimes against humanity and rape. These were the first conflicts since World War II to be formally judged genocidal in character and many key individual participants were subsequently charged with war crimes.^[7] The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) was established by the UN to prosecute these crimes.^[8]

 

 

It's more complicated than that and there's a good documentary from the BBC about the Yugoslav wars, it's worth watching:

So you would rather have a mass genocide basically by your own people? So before you going around saying what NATO did to your country I would learn why we did what we did. 

 

And ironically today is the day Elvis Joined the army in 1958. 

Edited March 24, 201412 yr by Darkangel

I just wanted to remind you what you've done 15 years ago , in a little country called Serbia , 78 nights and days your Air Forces throwed bombs on the Capital City , Belgrade . At the end , we lost the Kosovo , one of the most important place in our country with a plenty big amount of churchs .

Give me a break, in the end your nation lost thousands and thousands of people to genocide that would have continued had the INTERNATIONAL(not just the US) community not intervened. You'd think this post would be one to serve homage to those lost, but I guess you can always blame the US. The world's best scapegoat. 

Well I didn't do it, I wasn't born, yet.

Church's can be rebuilt, Human Lives cant. that's all im gonna say I don't know too much about it seeming how I was 3 when that happened and they don't talk about it much at school here I do like how you fail to mention the reason why our air force was there..

Edited March 24, 201412 yr by XBR410

As a part of this war , where i almost lost my life , i've seen that the US ( NATO too ) government is looking at things they don't need to , they simply think that the are the planet's cops but the are not . I'm not saying that the US population is bad , i'm just saying that the government is bad , and about genocids and all that stuff , that's only bullsh*t , because we just defended our selfs after we got attacked , like anybody else would do

Church's can be rebuilt, Human Lives cant. that's all im gonna say I don't know too much about it seeming how I was 3 when that happened and they don't talk about it much at school here I do like how you fail to mention the reason why our air force was there..

 

The reason that the US air force intervened was due to several reasons; primarily the shelling of safe zones established by the UN in areas such as Sarajevo. Furthermore, the consistent acts of aggression against UNPROFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia. Examples being in Summer 1995 at Srebrenica and Zepa (Where UN peacekeepers were taken hostage). This led to the launch of Operation Deliberate Force on 30th August 1995 where NATO fighters attacked strategic locations of Bosnian Serbs around Sarajevo and in Bosnia. This continued until September 14th when an agreement was reached with Bosnian Serbs.   

 

Just thought a little background would help.

The reason that the US air force intervened was due to several reasons; primarily the shelling of safe zones established by the UN in areas such as Sarajevo. Furthermore, the consistent acts of aggression against UNPROFOR peacekeepers in Bosnia. Examples being in Summer 1995 at Srebrenica and Zepa (Where UN peacekeepers were taken hostage). This led to the launch of Operation Deliberate Force on 30th August 1995 where NATO fighters attacked strategic locations of Bosnian Serbs around Sarajevo and in Bosnia. This continued until September 14th when an agreement was reached with Bosnian Serbs.   

 

Just thought a little background would help.

 

I don't think he realizes with out NATOS intervention he probably would of been part of the mass genocide. Also you wouldn't happen to be the same stider from CITYLIFERPG would you?   

I don't think he realizes with out NATOS intervention he probably would of been part of the mass genocide. Also you wouldn't happen to be the same stider from CITYLIFERPG would you?   

 

*Slightly off topic* Yeah, I'm StriderMaestro, but I haven't played CLRPG in AGES

 

Just gave some background to help, if anyone is confused in why America was involved in the conflict. Personally, I believe that intervention like this has to be done, in this case, it prevented Serbia de-stabilizing all of Bosnia

I don't understand why you are talking about Bosnia , i'm talking about Kosovo '99 and not Bosnia '95

It's always easy to blame and point fingers, gee.

Why wouldn't we blame you ? There is something bad in it ? Oh ! No ,  sorry you are America , the great nation , that is keeping the peace in the world using bombs

Why wouldn't we blame you ? There is something bad in it ? Oh ! No ,  sorry you are America , the great nation , that is keeping the peace in the world using bombs

And groups in your nation kept peace by committing genocide against those who disagreed with them?

I'm just discussing how the previous military engagement led to what happened in Kosovo in 1999. Besides, America had already attacked Serbia prior to the flashpoint in Kosovo.

Let's have a look at why the UN got involved in the Yugoslav wars, what they did and what they were supposed to do:

 

UNPROFOR

 

 

UNPROFOR in Croatia

UNPROFOR was created by UN Security Council Resolution 743 on 21 February 1992 during the Croatian War of Independence.^{%5B2%5D%5B3%5D} The initial mandate of the UNPROFOR was to ensure conditions for peace talks, and security in three demilitarized "safe-haven" enclaves designated as United Nations Protected Areas (UNPAs) located in various regions before the Republic of Croatia was admitted into the UN as a member but were controlled by the self-styled Republic of Serbian Krajina.
In 1992, the mandate was extended to so-called "pink zones" controlling access to the UNPAs (UNSC Resolution 762),^%5B4%5D some border control and monitoring of civilian access to the Pink Zones (UNSC Resolution 769),^%5B5%5D and control of the demilitarisation of the Prevlaka peninsula near Dubrovnik (UNSC Resolution 770).

 

^{UNPROFOR in Bosnia and Herzegovina}

Bosnia and Herzegovina

In contrast to that of Croatia, the UNPROFOR mandate for Bosnia and Herzegovina was not to monitor a preexisting cease-fire, but to keep the population alive while the war ended. The mandate can essentially be divided into four phases, but it is important to note that the old responsibilities continued even as new tasks were added.

• Phase 1: Aid to Sarajevo- Beginning on 5 June 1992, UNPROFOR was responsible for the protection of Sarajevo airport as mandated by Resolution 758 for humanitarian purposes. UNPROFOR would run a security corridor for aid convoys between the airport and the city.^[7]

• Phase 2: Escort of Humanitarian Aid- On 14 September 1992, UNPROFOR was given a mandate by the United Nations Security Council to protect humanitarian relief convoys as requested by the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and provide ground transportation for difficult routes.

• Phase 3: The Protection of Safe Areas- The next expansion of the mandate was on 16 April 1993 with United Nations Security Council Resolution 819 declaring the town of Srebrenica a "safe area" free "from armed attack or any other hostile act."^[8] In May 1993, Bihać, Sarajevo, Goražde, Žepa and Tuzla were also added as "safe areas".^[8]

• Phase 4: Monitoring the Muslim-Croat Federation and Weapons Exclusion Zones- Eventually, UNPROFOR monitored a US-brokered cease-fires in Bosnia in February 1994, creating the Muslim-Croat Federation.^[9] UNPROFOR was responsible for monitoring the zones of separation and weapons control points. In addition, the UNSC increased UNPROFOR's authorized strength to monitor weapons exclusion zones, but never actually altered the operation's mandate.^[8]

On 31 March 1995, UNPROFOR was restructured into three coordinated peace operations.^{[clarification needed]} On 20 December 1995 the forces of the UNPROFOR were reflagged under the NATO led Implementation Force (IFOR) whose task was to implement the General Framework Agreement for Peace in Bosnia and Herzegovina (GFAP — otherwise known as the Dayton Accords or Dayton Agreement).

 

In short, UNPROFOR was there to do two things:

A: Protect Humanitarian aid convoys and UN designated safe areas.

B: Monitoring DMZ's and Cease-fires.

 

The UN weren't in FYR as belligerents, but to protect and help the civilians in the war.

 

 

That's not all the UN did, their main focus was to end the war by diplomacy.

 

 

It didn't quite go so well for them:

 

 Distribution of humanitarian aid was disrupted due to non-cooperation and even hostile actions (mines, small arms fire, RPG) of the parties in the field, especially from the Bosnian Serb forces. Nonetheless, from November 1992 to January 1993, a total of some 34,600 tons of relief supplies had been delivered to an estimated 800,000 beneficiaries in 110 locations throughout Bosnia and Herzegovina.

 

Operation "Deny Flight"

In mid-March, unidentified airplanes dropped bombs onto villages in the vicinity of Srebrenica violating the "No-Flight zones" for the first time. The Bosnian Serbs were blamed for the bombing but denied it. On 31 March, a resolution was voted authorising the nations contributing to the UNPROFOR to take "all necessary measures" to prevent military flights from the belligerents in the no-flight zones ("Operation Deny Flight"). French, Dutch and American airplanes were deployed to enforce the resolution. In total, until 1 December 1994, 3317 violations were observed. On 28 February 1994, four military aircraft were shot down by NATO fighters over Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Yes, the UN authorised the contributing nations to use military power to enforce the no fly zone.

 

 

Furthermore:

 

Screbrenica:

 

 

On 16 April 1993, the United Nations Security Council passed Resolution 819, which demanded that: "all parties and others concerned treat Srebrenica and its surroundings as a safe area which should be free from any armed attack or any other hostile act".^[37] On 18 April 1993, the first group of UNPROFOR troops arrived in Srebrenica. On 8 May 1993 agreement was reached of demilitarization of Srebrenica. According to UN reports "General [sefer] Halilović and General [Ratko] Mladić agreed on measures covering the whole of the Srebrenica enclave and the adjacent enclave of Žepa.

 

 

4 June and 6–11 July 1995: Serb take-over of Srebrenica

On 4 June 1995, the French commander of the UN forces in former Yugoslavia, general Bernard Janvier, secretly met with Ratko Mladić to obtain the release of hostages, many of whom were French. Mladić demanded of Janvier that there would be no more air strikes.^{[citation needed]}

The Serb offensive against Srebrenica began in earnest on 6 July 1995. In the following days, the five UNPROFOR observation posts in the southern part of the enclave fell one by one in the face of the Bosnian Serb advance. Some of the Dutch soldiers retreated into the enclave after their posts were attacked, but the crews of the other observation posts surrendered into Serb custody. Simultaneously, the defending Bosnian forces came under heavy fire and were pushed back towards the town. Once the southern perimeter began to collapse, about 4,000 Bosniak residents who had been living in a Swedish housing complex for refugees nearby fled north into the town of Srebrenica. Dutch soldiers reported that the advancing Serbs were "cleansing" the houses in the southern part of the enclave.^[44]

Mass executions

 

The vast amount of planning and high-level coordination invested in killing thousands of men in a few days is apparent from the scale and the methodical nature in which the executions were carried out. A concerted effort was made to capture all Bosniak men of military age. In fact, those captured included many boys well below that age and elderly men above it.^[96]

The Army of Republika Srpska took the largest number of prisoners on 13 July, along the Bratunac-Konjević Polje road. It remains impossible to cite a precise figure, but witness statements describe the assembly points such as the field at Sandići, the agricultural warehouses in Kravica, the school in Konjević Polje, the football field in Nova Kasaba, the village of Lolići and the village school of Luke. Several thousands of people were herded together in the field near Sandići and on the Nova Kasaba football pitch, where they were searched and put into smaller groups. In a video tape made by journalist Zoran Petrović, a Serb soldier states that at least 3,000 to 4,000 men had given themselves up on the road. By the late afternoon of 13 July, the total had risen to some 6,000 according to the intercepted radio communication; the following day, Major Franken of Dutchbat was given the same figure by Colonel Radislav Janković of the Serb army. Many of the prisoners had been seen in the locations described by passing convoys taking the women and children to Kladanj by bus, while various aerial photographs have since provided evidence to confirm this version of events.^[80][96]

One hour after the evacuation of the females from Potočari was completed, the Drina Corps staff diverted the buses to the areas in which the men were being held. Colonel Krsmanović, who on 12 July had arranged the buses for the evacuation, ordered the 700 men in Sandići to be collected, and the soldiers guarding them made them throw their possessions on a large heap and hand over anything of value. During the afternoon, the group in Sandići was visited by Mladić who told them that they would come to no harm, that they would be treated as prisoners of war, that they would be exchanged for other prisoners and that their families had been escorted to Tuzla in safety. Some of these men were placed on the transport to Bratunac and other locations, while some were marched on foot to the warehouses in Kravica. The men gathered on the soccer ground at Nova Kasaba were forced to hand over their personal belongings. They too received a personal visit from Mladić during the afternoon of 13 July; on this occasion, he announced that the Bosnian authorities in Tuzla did not want the men and that they were therefore to be taken to other locations. The men in Nova Kasaba were loaded onto buses and trucks and were taken to Bratunac or the other locations.^[96]

The Bosnian men who had been separated from the women, children and elderly in Potočari numbering approximately 1,000 were transported to Bratunac and subsequently joined by Bosnian men captured from the column.^[97] Almost to a man, the thousands of Bosnian prisoners captured, following the take-over of Srebrenica, were executed. Some were killed individually or in small groups by the soldiers who captured them and some were killed in the places where they were temporarily detained. Most, however, were killed in carefully orchestrated mass executions, commencing on 13 July 1995 in the region just north of Srebrenica.

The mass executions followed a well-established pattern. The men were first taken to empty schools or warehouses. After being detained there for some hours, they were loaded onto buses or trucks and taken to another site for execution. Usually, the execution fields were in isolated locations. The prisoners were unarmed and in many cases, steps had been taken to minimise resistance, such as blindfolding them, binding their wrists behind their backs with ligatures or removing their shoes. Once at the killing fields, the men were taken off the trucks in small groups, lined up and shot. Those who survived the initial round of shooting were individually shot with an extra round, though sometimes only after they had been left to suffer for a time.^[96]

The process of finding victim bodies in the Srebrenica region, often in mass graves, exhuming them and finally identifying them was relatively slow.

 

 

 

That's just one of the many mass executions and acts of ethnic cleansing that happened during the Yugoslav wars.

 

 

So yes, the UN had every right to intervene with military power, in fact, the UN responded far too slow considering what was going on.

 

 

So what legitimate criticisms can you and everyone else have about UNPROFOR;

 

 

11–13 July 1995: the humanitarian crisis in Potočari

By the evening of 11 July 1995, approximately 20,000 to 25,000 Bosniak refugees from Srebrenica were gathered in Potočari, seeking protection within the UN compound there. Several thousand had pressed inside the compound itself, while the rest were spread throughout the neighbouring factories and fields. Though the vast majority were women, children, elderly or disabled, 63 witnesses estimated that there were at least 300 men inside the perimeter of the UN compound and between 600 and 900 men in the crowd outside.^[38] The Dutch claimed their base was full.

Conditions in Potočari were deplorable. There was very little food or water available and the July heat was stifling. One of the Dutchbat officers described the scene as follows:

The United Nations Security Council, in Resolution 1004, expressed concern at the humanitarian situation in Potočari, which also condemned the offensive by Bosnian Serb forces and demanded immediate withdrawal.

They were panicked, they were scared, and they were pressing each other against the soldiers, my soldiers, the UN soldiers that tried to calm them. People that fell were trampled on. It was a chaotic situation.^[38]

 

Expulsion of Bosniaks from the United Nations compound

On 13 July, the Dutch forces, knowing that at least the 239 men of military age would face death outside the compound, expelled most of the five thousand Bosniak refugees from the United Nations compound. Later proceedings in Dutch courts have established legal liability of The Netherlands for the deaths of those expelled.^[51]

 

12–13 July: crimes committed in Potočari

On 12 July 1995, as the day wore on, the refugees in the compound could see VRS soldiers setting houses and haystacks on fire. Throughout the afternoon, Serb soldiers mingled in the crowd and summary executions of men occurred.^[38] In the late morning of 12 July 1995 a witness saw a pile of 20 to 30 bodies heaped up behind the Transport Building in Potočari, alongside a tractor-like machine. Another testified that he saw a soldier slay a child with a knife in the middle of a crowd of expellees. He also said that he saw Serb soldiers execute more than a hundred Bosnian Muslim men in the area behind the Zinc Factory and then load their bodies onto a truck, although the number and nature of the murders stand in contrast to other evidence on the Trial Record which indicates that the killings in Potočari were sporadic in nature. Soldiers were picking people out of the crowd and taking them away. A witness recounted how three brothers – one merely a child and the others in their teens – were taken out in the night. When the boys’ mother went looking for them, she found them stark naked and with their throats slit.^[38][48]

That night, a Dutchbat medical orderly witnessed two Serb soldiers raping a young woman.^[52]

 

One survivor described the murder of a baby and the rape of women occurring in the close vicinity of Dutch U.N. peacekeepers who did nothing to prevent it. According to the survivor, a Serb told a mother to make her child stop crying, and when it continued to cry he took it and slit its throat, after which he laughed.^[53] Stories about rapes and killings spread through the crowd and the terror in the camp escalated.^[38] Several individuals were so terrified that they committed suicide by hanging themselves.^[48]

One of the survivors, Zarfa Turkovic,^[54] described the horrors of rapes as follows: "Two [serb soldiers] took her legs and raised them up in the air, while the third began raping her. Four of them were taking turns on her. People were silent, no one moved. She was screaming and yelling and begging them to stop. They put a rag into her mouth and then we just heard silent sobs...."^[55]

 

Separation and murder of Bosniak men and boys in Potočari

From the morning of 12 July, Serb forces began gathering men and boys from the refugee population in Potočari and holding them in separate locations, and as the refugees began boarding the buses headed north towards Bosniak-held territory, Serb soldiers separated out men of military age who were trying to clamber aboard. Occasionally, younger and older men were stopped as well (some as young as 14 or 15).^[56][57][58] These men were taken to a building in Potočari referred to as the "White House". As early as the evening of 12 July 1995, Major Franken of the Dutchbat heard that no men were arriving with the women and children at their destination in Kladanj.^[38]

On 13 July 1995, Dutchbat troops witnessed definite signs that the Serb soldiers were murdering some of the Bosniak men who had been separated. For example, Corporal Vaasen saw two soldiers take a man behind the "White House", heard a shot and saw the two soldiers reappear alone. Another Dutchbat officer saw Serb soldiers murder an unarmed man with a single gunshot to the head and heard gunshots 20–40 times an hour throughout the afternoon. When the Dutchbat soldiers told Colonel Joseph Kingori, a United Nations Military Observer (UNMO) in the Srebrenica area, that men were being taken behind the "White House" and not coming back, Colonel Kingori went to investigate. He heard gunshots as he approached, but was stopped by Serb soldiers before he could find out what was going on.^[38]

Some of the executions were carried out at night under arc lights, and industrial bulldozers then pushed the bodies into mass graves.^[59] According to evidence collected from Bosniaks by French policeman Jean-René Ruez, some were buried alive; he also heard testimony describing Serb forces killing and torturing refugees at will, streets littered with corpses, people committing suicide to avoid having their noses, lips and ears chopped off, and adults being forced to watch the soldiers kill their children.^[59]

 

 

The UN peacekeeping force neglected to do their duty, the massacre could potentially have been avoided or lessened had they acted correctly.

And groups in your nation kept peace by committing genocide against those who disagreed with them?

What genocide ? Protection = genocide ? Let's put you in situation , let's say a country get into Florida and says : " Now this is my place " , you would defend it , right ? The same thing happened for us , THERE WAS NO GENOCIDE .

Why wouldn't we blame you ? There is something bad in it ? Oh ! No ,  sorry you are America , the great nation , that is keeping the peace in the world using bombs

Because I'm from Finland? Joke's on you pal. Also, I don't gather how one person is "America" as you said it.

 

This feels more and more biased.

Edited March 24, 201412 yr by Olanov

What genocide ? Protection = genocide ? Let's put you in situation , let's say a country get into Florida and says : " Now this is my place " , you would defend it , right ? The same thing happened for us , THERE WAS NO GENOCIDE .

I guess you forgot about this post: