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Some little tweaks for 1.0


LukeD

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So after playing with 1.0 for a few hours I've noticed a couple of things which could do with a tweak, and a couple of things which I think would extend the role playing side of things more.

 

Tweaks

  • Add dialog for the text mode when you ALT + E at the end of a pursuit. Would act as a visual confirmation for the player. The cop usually says "stop rubber-necking" when he is updating control, then control responds with text saying "received". Would be nice just to have a message saying "[Officer ___ ] Control, suspects apprehended, resuming patrol." or something.
  • The options during a traffic stop could be better defined to accommodate the new license plate scanner, E.g Combine dangerous driving and speeding options into 1, add a new one called "routine checks" in which you don't run their license, instead they get out of the car and become detained allowing you to search the car etc.
  • During a pursuit, limit the number of police cars initially spawned in on the chase. I joined a chase once and there was already 6 police cars tailing him....or rather causing havoc thanks to the hard coded AI. Me joining the chase (from a callout) was pretty much pointless given that the suspect was surrounded, upside down and pretty much parked on top of a police car.
  • To add to the above point, prevent all other police cars not initially spawned into the chase event from joining it. This way the player gets to do more of the chasing and call in the backup if it's needed. Again, 6 cars in a chase already + me + every single cop car I overtake getting to the pursuit is just silly, chase over before I've even got there :(
  • Change the roadblock mechanics to spawn in at a given waypoint, my experience is it requests the roadblock where you're current location is. Which 9 times out of 10 is behind the pursuit and thus useless.
  • PLEASE DO THIS ONE: Change the colour of the waypoint line when driving a suspect back to the station, it's white which on most roads I can't actually see it. Maybe blue to match the parking lot's icon that appears outside the station.

Traffic Stop Extras

  • Add option to search the vehicle (not just the boot/trunk): Player must get in the car and press E to conduct a search, after a few seconds it would report a finding, or no finding if clear. This would add to the ability to use the ANPR/ALPR. You could pull a car over that was in a hit and run, detain the driver in your police car then search his car for weapons or illegal items. Unless you have something to hide, why would you run from the collision to start with? :)
  • While a driver is detained in your police car, you could get into the car with them and investigate them (like how you can when you aim and hold E)
  • Breathalyser, I've seen other threads asking for this (yes I know it is included in some mods too) but an official LCPDFR one would work better with lcpdfr stops.

Simple-er Lighting mode

For the non-ELS users, I know we have the 3 different lighting functions. But is it perhaps possible to add a configuration to this, so the player can select in the config file either default LCPFR lighting modes or simple lighting modes.

Eg. in the config file:

Lighting-mode: DEFAULT //Choose either  DEFAULT or SIMPLE

 

This new mode would basically toggle the siren active or not (while the default GTA siren/light combo is active).

In other words, you press G to turn sirens and lights on, then press L (for example) to toggle the siren sounds off and on. Pressing G again will turn it all off and default back to normal so that when you next press G sirens and lights is active by default.

 

Extra Command for the Quick Action Wheel

We already have the command that orders everyone to evacuate an area, but when you're dealing with a drunk guy that's getting shouted at by an angry mob I don't want them to "evacuate" which makes them all run away screaming. I want to be able to order everyone to move along as normal and leave me to deal with the guy who is lay on the floor.

 

 

I think that is everything for now. Let me know what you guys think of my ideas etc, even if you hate the ideas tell me why because feedback is good. Saying "this suck's because..." is helpful, just saying "this idea sucks" isn't :)

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The problem is, this is making it very very complex. We were blown away when we first tested out 1.0, however, we did (as a community I'm referring to) notice a larger amount of bugs than that would be usual for an initial release. For example, nothing on you developer guys, I've switched back to RC2 because of all the bugs that were encountered in 1.0. I used to crash all the time. You can't even have modded peds and the game would lag substantially more than with RC2 installed. Back on topic though, with adding all these features, there would come more bugs. See what I'm trying to say here? With more features come more bugs.

 

As for what features you want to see that were mentioned above, I don't think the developers at Sam's secret lair can limit the amount of AI that respond, that, like you mentioned, is hard coded into the game. The developers have tried their best though, because they make you call a pursuit into dispatch in order for units to respond. So, if you're playing single player and you don't mind twisting realism a tiny bit, you don't actually need to call into dispatch, making all the other units hold off. 

 

I do agree with you on having units there already before you can even attempt to do anything, and then having the AI cops ruin the experience for you. Like I mentioned above, there's not much the devs can do in their lair, since you weren't the one who called in the pursuit. It is, however, realistic to have units there already, but I do get the point you're trying to put across - make them at least less reckless. This is another feature that's hard coded into the game. Liberty City is based off of New York. The LCPD is a parody of the NYPD, that is meant to bring out their violent side. 

 

For your issue with the roadblock, the solution lies within other mods. Try PoliceHelper or something like that, or possibly even PolicingTools. In a way, I'm kind of disappointed that the developers didn't take that into consideration. I mean, really? Spawn the roadblock at your current location? Is it not kind of common sense to make the roadblock spawn at a given waypoint? 

 

The color of the waypoint line has a workaround. >If you install the Google Maps Night Mode minimap for GTA IV, the line will be clearer and you'll get there easier. I believe it's out of their power to actually change the color of the waypoint to blue, but I believe they could change it to yellow, or something along the lines of that. Maybe even red!

 

For your Traffic Stop Extras

 

  • Again, your solution lies within the use of other mods, but I understand your frustration. After all these mods and testing them, you'd think you could search the entire vehicle, right? I guess not. There is a mod that has been released, and I think it's out of testing now (since it was in testing a long time ago when Avs was in Code Zero Gaming playing GTA IV), and I hear it's pretty stable.
  • You can detain people in the car, but I don't know if you can question them in the back of your car. You can search your pedestrian outside of the vehicle, and when you find something on them, that's when you take them in to custody. With PoliceHelper, you can also ask for their ID, and PoliceHelper conveniently alerts you if they have any warrants or anything like that.
  • I find the breathalyzer function with Braveheart's Policing Script doesn't actually work with 1.0! So, yes, it would only be common sense to include one, but that's a lot more work. There is a debate going on within my clan, if LCPDFR lacks features. That's your opinion though, and through this post, I'm sort of voicing mine.

I, personally, don't use non-ELS cars, and if I were to discuss the feature you're proposing, this post would become an awful lot longer than it already is. 

 

Extra Command for the Action Wheel

 

Okay, so, I did respond to lots of calls with homeless people causing trouble, and the 'evacuate area' function didn't work too well on them, or the people outside the alleyway. The evacuate feature is actually coded in the same way as a gunshot fired in public's reaction would be. When there is a big shootout, it's really chaotic. The innocent citizens are running everywhere, which does eventually get on your nerves. Again, if the devs really tried hard, they could accomplish this feature, but with that will come more bugs, which will mean more testing, which will mean a prolonged period where its release is just hanging around in the air.

 

*breathes in*, I hope you liked that and found it useful. 

 

Sorry, I just had to mention this and celebrate: I'm 2 posts away from 500! Sorry, carry on. 

Edited by Mustu

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I'm going to snip a lot of your post out of my quote for readability and target the main points, thank you for your feedback as well. I completely understand all of your points and like you said, it is all a matter of opinion.

 

So here goes:

 

 

See what I'm trying to say here? With more features come more bugs.

Yes, I see it exactly. I'm actually doing a degree in computer science, although at the moment we're being taught the basics of java so not much use to GTA IV modding. So I do understand that more stuff = more bugs = more testing = more complaints = more feature ideas to fix complaints = more bugs etc etc etc

Vicious cycle. But it's the cycle that software developers have to go through permanently. It's resource heavy, it's costly if you're a paid company and it takes time. In this situation it is merely a matter of putting your eggs in the right basket so to speak.

That's why I put the tweaks first, because new stuff I can live without but some things do need little tweaks.

And in terms of bugs, yes I've witnessed crashes but no more frequently for me than 0.95 RC2 used to crash. I haven't tested it with other mods purely because the previews and what not of 1.0 made it seem like I wouldn't need any of them. I also don't enjoy changing the ped models or the car models too much because I find they aren't that stable and have caused many memory crashes before hand for me.

As for what features you want to see that were mentioned above, I don't think the developers at Sam's secret lair can limit the amount of AI that respond, that, like you mentioned, is hard coded into the game.

It's a shame, would have been nice but then Rockstar never have done "Friendly to the modding community" all that well have they.

I do agree with you on having units there already before you can even attempt to do anything, and then having the AI cops ruin the experience for you.

They are far too reckless, I wish Rockstar would have considered more realistic police AI given that their game's title is based off a criminal illegal action. Derp. but then that said, this is a game where you can whip a rocket launcher out of your a** and blow up a helicopter and only get the attention of a single cop.

I do agree that some units need to be there, like you say other officers have called it in already, hence the control callout to other units. But preferably not an army of LCPD's "finest" :P

For your issue with the roadblock, the solution lies within other mods. Try PoliceHelper or something like that, or possibly even PolicingTools. In a way, I'm kind of disappointed that the developers didn't take that into consideration. I mean, really? Spawn the roadblock at your current location? Is it not kind of common sense to make the roadblock spawn at a given waypoint?

I've used that and it is a very good mod, but again I was hoping to get something, like you said, a little more expectable.

the only way I can see the default roadblock feature working is if you are called into a pursuit heading in your direction. But then that limits the likelyhood of ever using a roadblock. Because, look at the previous point. Too many police cars spawn in already, making your roadblock sit in a random location after you and half a dozen other cars have driven past.

The color of the waypoint line has a workaround.

I believe it's out of their power to actually change the color of the waypoint to blue, but I believe they could change it to yellow, or something along the lines of that. Maybe even red!

I have to dispute this one, I don't ever remember seeing a blue arrow spawn next to anything, nor do I ever remember seeing a white GPS line in the default game. 1.0 is the first time I've ever seen both of those. But even if I'm wrong, use one of the other colours please. I shouldn't have to use a mod that requires using more memory and resources to change something because they chose a bad colour. (No offence to the dev's but white on shades of grey is asking for trouble, what about all those colorblind?)

 

  • Again, your solution lies within the use of other mods, but I understand your frustration. After all these mods and testing them, you'd think you could search the entire vehicle, right? I guess not. There is a mod that has been released, and I think it's out of testing now (since it was in testing a long time ago when Avs was in Code Zero Gaming playing GTA IV), and I hear it's pretty stable.
  • I find the breathalyzer function with Braveheart's Policing Script doesn't actually work with 1.0! So, yes, it would only be common sense to include one, but that's a lot more work. There is a debate going on within my clan, if LCPDFR lacks features. That's your opinion though, and through this post, I'm sort of voicing mine.
Can't say I've heard of such a mod, I know of ones which let you control the doors etc, but nothing that lets you search cars. I will look into that, thanks.

As for the breathalyser, I know of that one, but haven't tested with 1.0 purely because I didn't want to be adding more mods yet.

And yes it may well work in tandem nicely, but my point was more aimed at the fact that, let's say I use bravehearts script + the vpCallouts script both with lcpdfr.

I'm now using 3 different callsigns for my officer, 3 different event handlers and 3 different areas of my screen for callouts each of them not knowing the other exits so having up to 3 callouts at a time. I could go on, but it just gets silly.

Okay, so, I did respond to lots of calls with homeless people causing trouble, and the 'evacuate area' function didn't work too well on them, or the people outside the alleyway. The evacuate feature is actually coded in the same way as a gunshot fired in public's reaction would be. When there is a big shootout, it's really chaotic. The innocent citizens are running everywhere, which does eventually get on your nerves. Again, if the devs really tried hard, they could accomplish this feature, but with that will come more bugs, which will mean more testing, which will mean a prolonged period where its release is just hanging around in the air.

 

*breathes in*, I hope you liked that and found it useful. 

 

Sorry, I just had to mention this and celebrate: I'm 2 posts away from 500! Sorry, carry on.

the homeless people causing trouble wasn't actually the callout I was referring to here, that's simple you target all 3 of the homeless people and ask them to move on. I can deal with that.

The callout I got was a drunk chap, staggering about. And him and all the other peds around the area were "saying" things, had text appear small above their heads. I could have targeted each one and held E then gone through the menu's to ask them to move on, but there as 6 or 7 of them around plus non-involved peds standing around watching the drunk guy, I then had a drunk ped all over the pavement so targeting him was a nightmare. It would of been handy to just say "move on everyone", similar in a way to how you can now stop traffic in a small radius.

Thank you for your post, I do appreciate it. Wil see what other people have to say about the points raised too. :)

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

Join my official discord server for support, general chat and my stream schedule! https://discord.gg/Mddj7PQ

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The issue though is what sounds fun on paper may not be fun in actual gameplay terms. Personally speaking as somebody who is involved with a title coming out late next year, I've seen that the hard way, sat in on meetings where for a racing title people (as an example) go 'oh we must have engines that fail randomly as it's realistic', then people point out how it wouldn't actually work or be fun for everyone. That's the main thing. LCPDFR is not a job, it's not an obligation, it is at the end of the day a free mod for a game and it's done out of the kindness of the devs hearts. At the end  of the day we can debate this to high heaven but we got no peek behind their closed doors and it's up to them what happens in 1.01 and onwards.

I do feel some of the changes would be a step back (or sideways), for instance, the point about AI and chasing. No, in 0.95 RC2 it felt at times like you were the only cop doing anything at all and the world revolved around you. 1.0 attempts to change that with the AI being way more involved, okay so the AI cops tend to spawn HOWEVER you can change the max # of cop cars in a pursuit in the INI file, by default it's set to 5 max and 20 cops max in one pursuit, If you want to scale that down then that's one way to fix that without taking a step back to feeling like the city's centered around your cop again (which is what 0.95 and the default IV felt like), most stuff is hard coded into the .exe file which is off limits legally and morally.

 

My main concern is you're making it way too complex with your ideas. 1.0 is a good balance of easy access and powerful tools. I'll admit, when I saw the initial preview, I was concerned it'd be too complex but once I played it I was liking how easy it is to use.

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The issue though is what sounds fun on paper may not be fun in actual gameplay terms.

Yes a valid point I agree, and yes your other point about it being entirely down to the devs, only true to an extent. If the entire community said "we don't like traffic stops" would they keep traffic stops in and pee everyone off? Or change it?

In terms of fun for everyone I understand that too, but I'm thinking for those who like to roleplay the game more...which taking a good look at the number of community "Clans" would suggest lots of people use this for roleplay not just an arcade police game. If I wanted an arcade police game I would go get True Crime :P

I do feel some of the changes would be a step back (or sideways), for instance, the point about AI and chasing. No, in 0.95 RC2 it felt at times like you were the only cop doing anything at all and the world revolved around you. 1.0 attempts to change that with the AI being way more involved, okay so the AI cops tend to spawn HOWEVER you can change the max # of cop cars in a pursuit in the INI file, by default it's set to 5 max and 20 cops max in one pursuit, If you want to scale that down then that's one way to fix that without taking a step back to feeling like the city's centered around your cop again (which is what 0.95 and the default IV felt like), most stuff is hard coded into the .exe file which is off limits legally and morally.

I understand that too, but I don't think it would be a step back.

The INI file says "MaximumCopCarsInPursuit = 5" well to be honest I wish I had taken a screenshot of a couple of my chases, more than 5 police cars in a few of them.

HOWEVER, I was initially unaware that these existed in the INI because when I first checked it, it had about 4 options (didn't think to check it after running the game) so I will adjust it to my liking.

 

My main concern is you're making it way too complex with your ideas. 1.0 is a good balance of easy access and powerful tools. I'll admit, when I saw the initial preview, I was concerned it'd be too complex but once I played it I was liking how easy it is to use.

I am in a way yes, but at the other side of it, I'm not. For the end user anyway...

Searching a car in a traffic stop for example does add complications to the process, but it also adds dynamics. Do 20 minutes of JUST traffic stops alone and suddenly it becomes a chore rather than fun, "I pulled you over for speeding, check your license, run it on the computer, it's fine, give it back, pay a citation. Drive away" it just makes me want to close the game down sometimes. When it crashes after 20 minutes I feel like "meh, was getting bored anyway" but that is just me.

Yes I know there is some dynamics, chance for a pursuit, chance for an expired license etc. But some little extras that the player can opt into like detain the suspect and search their car. It makes role play, it makes creativity and that to me is fun :)

So yes overall I do respect that it has to be what the majority wants, but that's the purpose of this thread. I throw out some ideas, see who takes to them, see who doesn't.

Thank you for your feedback too :)

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

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I really like the effort they put into this, especially trying to keep it realistic with features like grabbing a suspect and putting him/her in a car but there are some things I'd also like to see changed in future updates. What I find especially annoying are the following things:

  • Whenever a suspect flees on foot, there suddenly starts a chase on him/her with all nearby police forces while I could easily take the suspect down all on my own with my taser. Would be nice if a pursuit only started when I call in backup. Might be an issue just on my side or maybe they just overlooked this.
  • I'd like to see standard police officers just use their pistols or shotguns in case of large scale disturbances but not an M4 for a car stop. It looks quite odd when I perform a routine traffic stop and go to the side window to check for the driver's license and my partner is aiming at them with his M4. That just isn't realistic for me. Some settings in the .ini with usable weapon types for different police officers would be cool, like setting the Noose to use carabines as well as pistols and standard police officers only use pistols and shotguns.
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Try installing a mod which reduces the amount of cop cars on patrol around LC.  There's one called "less cops" or something.  I use it, and things are much better with it.

 

 

 

Okay, so, I did respond to lots of calls with homeless people causing trouble, and the 'evacuate area' function didn't work too well on them, or the people outside the alleyway. The evacuate feature is actually coded in the same way as a gunshot fired in public's reaction would be. When there is a big shootout, it's really chaotic. The innocent citizens are running everywhere, which does eventually get on your nerves. Again, if the devs really tried hard, they could accomplish this feature, but with that will come more bugs, which will mean more testing, which will mean a prolonged period where its release is just hanging around in the air.

 

Try telling them to "move on" from the issue orders menu, within the stop and search options instead.

"You tell me exactly what you want, and I will very carefully explain to you why it cannot be."

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It is no longer necessarily the case that bundling something with LCPDFR works better. A breathalyzer implemented with the API would probably work pretty much equally well as one built in.

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Try installing a mod which reduces the amount of cop cars on patrol around LC.  There's one called "less cops" or something.  I use it, and things are much better with it.

Thanks Sam, I'll have a look out for that mod.

 

 

It is no longer necessarily the case that bundling something with LCPDFR works better. A breathalyzer implemented with the API would probably work pretty much equally well as one built in.

Very true, and as a person who does code I thank you for the API. I did in fact look at it a couple of times before posting this thread but, given all my experience is in java it would take me a while to learn the API, by which time a competent GTA IV modder would have achieved what I wanted more than likely.

So I will be looking out for certain script authors to port over to the API.

 

 

For the simple lights thing, have you gotten yours to work in game yet? Or is that still a WIP by the DEV team?

I haven't tested it, purely because unless the website says "1.01 released" or something similar it is safe to say they haven't been fixed yet.

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

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The INI file says "MaximumCopCarsInPursuit = 5" well to be honest I wish I had taken a screenshot of a couple of my chases, more than 5 police cars in a few of them.

HOWEVER, I was initially unaware that these existed in the INI because when I first checked it, it had about 4 options (didn't think to check it after running the game) so I will adjust it to my liking.

I already got told that, but thank you any way :)

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

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Oh I thought of another, was reminded by the post above.

Is there a way to reduce the time the random event camera hangs for.

It's rather annoying driving down the road, then the camera pans to a drunk driver but stays with them until the camera is facing backwards. By which point I can't see my own police car, have crashed into another car, run a pedestrian over and caused such a mess I lose the drunk driver.

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

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It should only do that the first time the event happens, IIRC. Not sure if its first time per run or first time ever, though.

About light modes: I used them frequently in testing with no issues. They generally work; it doesn't work for a few, but you should try it yourself before concluding it doesn't work for you.

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It should only do that the first time the event happens, IIRC. Not sure if its first time per run or first time ever, though.

About light modes: I used them frequently in testing with no issues. They generally work; it doesn't work for a few, but you should try it yourself before concluding it doesn't work for you.

Right ok, well it's happened every time the event occurs for me, but each of those times has only ever been during one session of the game.

As for the lighting modes, they don't work for me. I posted my crash log in the support section so you guys could look at the error along with a few other's which afaik had gone unreported.

Live Streaming daily from 8pm GMT (UK) at https://twitch.tv/OfficialLukeD - I play a variety of things 😄

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I don't know for you guys, but the messages for F7 seem to be backwards for me? It may just be the way I'm (not) understanding it, but when I go on duty from the station, I receive calls. If I hit F7, it says that I am no longer busy and can receive calls, however, nothing comes over the radio. Hitting F7 again shows me as busy, but I receive calls as normal. This may not have made any sense, but thought I would share this with you

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