Chilly, there's a reason for why courts are not ruled by the victims of the crimes because they cannot possibly be unbiased.

 

We are a civilised part of the world where we aim for justice, not vengeance, the decision to find a person guilty of crime should lie in the hands of a unbiased person, someone who can also take the guilty party into account when making the decision to punish a person.

 

People time and time again condemn when a foreign country sentences people to a stoning, whip lashes and other forms of corporal punishment to a crime, yet now when it is affecting them closer to home it becomes a viable option, that is why "the people" should not make the decision.

 

 

The difference between torture and prison is that you have been found guilty beyond any reasonable doubt by a court that made a unbiased opinion based on the facts presented by both the prosecution and the defence, justice is sentencing the convicted person with a punishment that is appropriate, I.E. the punishment will result in this person not committing the crime or any other crime again, whereas torture is a interrogation technique used to extract information prior to a court case.

 

There's only one prison that can be regarded as torture, that is Guantanamo Bay as people are being held captive without trial.

Chilly, there's a reason for why courts are not ruled by the victims of the crimes because they cannot possibly be unbiased.

 

We are a civilised part of the world where we aim for justice, not vengeance, the decision to find a person guilty of crime should lie in the hands of a unbiased person, someone who can also take the guilty party into account when making the decision to punish a person.

 

People time and time again condemn when a foreign country sentences people to a stoning, whip lashes and other forms of corporal punishment to a crime, yet now when it is affecting them closer to home it becomes a viable option, that is why "the people" should not make the decision.

 

 

The difference between torture and prison is that you have been found guilty beyond any reasonable doubt by a court that made a unbiased opinion based on the facts presented by both the prosecution and the defence, justice is sentencing the convicted person with a punishment that is appropriate, I.E. the punishment will result in this person not committing the crime or any other crime again, whereas torture is a interrogation technique used to extract information prior to a court case.

 

There's only one prison that can be regarded as torture, that is Guantanamo Bay as people are being held captive without trial.

 

I've never studied justice, and don't plan too, but I believe the rightful justice for a major crime (the Boston bombings wouldn't be big enough) should be dependent on the crime. A warmongoler, a dictator, and terrorist, these people that kill thousands to millions of innocent people should not be put into jail and be in shelter and fed for the rest of their lives. They should be tortured and withdrawn from humanity until death.

No, you can't torture them because there is a law against cruel and inhumane punishment in your country, specifically the 8th Amendment to the United States Constitution that forbids cruel and unusual punishment.  You might as well take away the 1st, the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th, 5th, the 6th and the 7th if you're going to take away the 8th.

This man knows more about my country than I do.

Chilytozza that's out of guards hands until we start getting enough funding to have one guard staffed per prisoner (never going to happen). What prisoners do to each other is on them.

Edited April 17, 201313 yr by unr3al

Lets get back on topic before this turns into ww3, 

 

lets hope who ever was involved in this bombing gets the full pounding of American Justice! 

I've never studied justice, and don't plan too, but I believe the rightful justice for a major crime (the Boston bombings wouldn't be big enough) should be dependent on the crime. A warmongoler, a dictator, and terrorist, these people that kill thousands to millions of innocent people should not be put into jail and be in shelter and fed for the rest of their lives. They should be tortured and withdrawn from humanity until death.

No. See, this is what makes us different from them: We (the civilized world) do not stand for torture. We do not consider ANYONE sub-human. We do not strip ANYONE of their basic dignity. Guantanamo Bay isn't something to celebrate, it's something to be fucking ashamed of.

Also, I'd challenge your characterization of prison. In the highest security prisons, there is effectively no human contact. Can you imagine living like that? No one to talk to, you are kept apart from other inmates at all times, you don't even get to see where you are in the prison...

Oh, and people who kill millions? You probably can't punish them; they tend to be dictators, immune from consequences. If you do punish them, you could hang them or you could send them to prison for life. You don't torture them.

Seriously, guys? Torture is not acceptable even to get information. Period. End of story.

Torture as punishment, not even with the motivation to interrogate? That is absolutely beyond the pale. That is not something we do. Ever. For any reason. Anyone who coldly tortures someone for something they did deserves a lifetime in prison, or possibly a death sentence. It is one of the few lines that I don't think you can be forgiven for crossing.

EDIT: Darkangel, you posted while I was writing this. Yes, lets.

Edited April 17, 201313 yr by cp702

Lets get back on topic before this turns into ww3, 

 

lets hope who ever was involved in this bombing gets the full pounding of American Justice!

 

Unfortunately the consequence of an act of terror is usually interrogation then lethal injection.

No. See, this is what makes us different from them: We (the civilized world) do not stand for torture. We do not consider ANYONE sub-human. We do not strip ANYONE of their basic dignity. Guantanamo Bay isn't something to celebrate, it's something to be fucking ashamed of.

Also, I'd challenge your characterization of prison. In the highest security prisons, there is effectively no human contact. Can you imagine living like that? No one to talk to, you are kept apart from other inmates at all times, you don't even get to see where you are in the prison...

Oh, and people who kill millions? You probably can't punish them; they tend to be dictators, immune from consequences. If you do punish them, you could hang them or you could send them to prison for life. You don't torture them.

Seriously, guys? Torture is not acceptable even to get information. Period. End of story.

Torture as punishment, not even with the motivation to interrogate? That is absolutely beyond the pale. That is not something we do. Ever. For any reason. Anyone who coldly tortures someone for something they did deserves a lifetime in prison, or possibly a death sentence. It is one of the few lines that I don't think you can be forgiven for crossing.

Well clearly we share different views and neither of us can convince each other otherwise.

Edited April 17, 201313 yr by hlsavior

I say when we find out who did it, we hang them by their hands and feel to a poll in Boston and let the people have their way with them. Justice.

That's not justice. That's the exact opposite of justice. Justice is calm, reasoned decisions. Justice is staying away from emotion, and being objective and fair. Letting the victims have their way with a suspect is barbarism.

That's not justice. That's the exact opposite of justice. Justice is calm, reasoned decisions. Justice is staying away from emotion, and being objective and fair. Letting the victims have their way with a suspect is barbarism.

 

Haha you are right sir, but i think my idea might be a little better for scumbags like this. They don't deserve actual justice.

Haha you are right sir, but i think my idea might be a little better for scumbags like this. They don't deserve actual justice.

This guy knows his stuff. This guy didn't steal a car. He killed 3 people including a eight year old and injured over hundreds.

Edited April 17, 201313 yr by hlsavior

And?

Here's the thing: We're not terrorists. We're better than terrorists. You know why? Because we have standards. There are lines we do not cross. It may not be satisfying emotionally, but we do not cross those lines. What makes us better is precisely *that* we don't cross those lines in these situations. I don't care *what* someone did: NOTHING deserves torture.

For that matter: You think this was bad? That's because it was - this whole situation is absolutely awful. But there has been so much worse that has been done in the past. To invoke Godwin's law: You know how the people who perpetrated the Holocaust were punished? They were hanged. They were not tortured. They were not beaten. They were given a trial. They had lawyers to defend themselves. Some were actually acquitted. The ones who were found guilty of crimes against humanity, of fucking GENOCIDE, of things that dwarf any crime you have seen in your entire life, you know what happened to them? They were tried and hanged. Not tortured.

I will be praying this is so sad.

You know how the people who perpetrated the Holocaust were punished? They were hanged. They were not tortured. They were not beaten. They were given a trial. They had lawyers to defend themselves. Some were actually acquitted. The ones who were found guilty of crimes against humanity, of fucking GENOCIDE, of things that dwarf any crime you have seen in your entire life, you know what happened to them? They were tried and hanged. Not tortured.

Most people caught by the U.S. who perpetrated the Holocaust were let go, or given very short prison sentences. Have you ever watched the Nuremberg Trials before? It's a mockery of justice. People like Rudolf Hess and Hermann Goering were even permitted to stand up and start speaking, even arguing with the interrogating lawyers without any repercussions from the judge. They didn't get held in contempt for that behavior. We actually executed a lot of the SS soldiers and other lower ranking people by firing squad, and hung the top Nazi brass instead to make a statement. Of course a couple of people managed to escape justice of any kind anyway, like Goering, Himmler and Hitler for that matter. I think the Russians did it better by taking anyone in an S.S. uniform and shooting them on the spot. Nobody in the S.S. was innocent. They were all intolerant bigots who perpetuated the use of violence against civilians and helped to subjugate the citizens of other countries. Whether they actually personally shot a Jew in the head or not is irrelevant. They were part of an organization bred for the purpose of mass murder. Nobody in the S.S. had good intentions. Top brass of the S.S. and Wehrmacht were thrown into the gulag until either the 1950's, or indefinitely. The brutal crimes committed by the Third Reich against Russia were met with brutality by a supposedly inferior race.

Politically correct or not, I think Russia did it better, and were more thorough. Keep in mind that the Germans didn't obey a lot of the laws of warfare and prisoner treatment, so I see no reason why they should be exempt from any degradation on their end. Russian gulags did (and probably still do) have regular mistreatment of prisoners, including torture and beatings despite being a member of the U.N. And I better not see anyone get on their moral high horse when it comes to the U.S. being above those sort of things. We had the less severe Japanese internment camps in the U.S. where we kept plenty of innocent people without warrants, we used the atomic bomb, and we occupied Germany and Japan for years, even using Emperor Hirohito as a puppet leader for 6 years straight taking orders directly from General Douglass MacArthur. And this behavior was met with no protest from other forward thinking and developed nations like England, France, Australia and Canada.

Getting back on the topic of the bombings:

 

Boston is sincerely touched, New York. Sports rivals or not, we are still fellow citizens.

Edited April 17, 201313 yr by unr3al

jus·tice   [juhs-tis]  Show IPA

noun

1.

the quality of being just; righteousness, equitableness, or moral rightness: to uphold the justice of acause.

2.

rightfulness or lawfulness, as of a claim or title; justness of ground or reason: to complain with justice.

3.

the moral principle determining just conduct.

4.

conformity to this principle, as manifested in conduct; just conduct, dealing, or treatment.

5.

the administering of deserved punishment or reward.

 

-Dictionary.com

Funny that the word 'law' doesn't even show up until the 2nd definition of the word. Justice to me can mean a lot of things. It could mean legal ramifications, it could mean physical or psychological vengeance, it could even be war. Trials are supposed to adhere to a very strict code, and those who violate it, be they defendants, witnesses or even lawyers are subject to punishments such as being held in contempt of course. I've been on jury duty and I can tell you the court I was in was governed far better than the Nuremberg trials. I think proper justice for Nuremberg top brass is a case by case basis. Albert Speer wasn't directly involved in mass killings and served as a witness against his co-defendants, so I think a jail term was appropriate. Others however were treated far better than they should have been, and I still stand by my feelings that anybody involved in the S.S. should have been dispensed.

On a separate note though, don't swear at me, cp702. I've been respectful to everyone here.

*EDIT* I noticed you or someone removed your post. I'll take that as retracting your statement.

Edited April 18, 201313 yr by unr3al

Apologies; I got carried away.

Sad that we live in a world containing insane people who do this. Making me sick. RIP to those who didn't make it, and a quick and painless recovery to all affected by this.

FBI released video of the 2 suspects they believe where involved in the attack...

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57580325/fbi-releases-video-of-2-boston-bombing-suspects/

 

Yes, and please look at the photos listed in that link of their faces if anyone recognizes them. Even if you're unsure 100%, if you think it MAY be somebody you know, call it in. We want justice, and in order to do that we need to investigate any and all strong leads ASAP. These two were seen setting backpacks down near the bomb sites before the detonations.