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Four more years. Good luck President Obama. Good luck America

Edited by Beckugan1

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yep four more years of satan and the facist police state

Really, dude? If you have political opinions, that's fine, but keep that trash talk off of here.

Edited by unr3al

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I always find topics like politics that is something that will constantly be stirring controversy. For the most part many of us (me included) are pretty much the least qualified to be political analysts of sorts. Of course we can have our opinions and all but I believe it only hurts this country when people don't know who and what they're voting for and situations that actually affect the people.

I don't mean to go on a rant or to even get into politics but just provide some perspective

When we have naive children or young teens and possibly adults on this forum (who's intellectual capacity may be the level of a child)(possibly myself included-I could be viewed as a hypocrite to some) make extreme and exaggerated generalizations of topics they somehow deemed themselves experts on; then I believe people should do a little more research before making such fallacies. I invite you to go live in another country aside from the United States or the other countries with democracies. These "Western" countries so to speak have the most accessible type of freedoms so I invite you to live in a country where it's restrictive and even repressive like North Korea, etc.

You have to feel very fortunate to live in a country like America or even Britain and Canada and the dozens of other democratic countries where we can sue the police or question their procedures and where we have courts and where they do their best to make everything fair and equal and where we can say whatever we want to and not fear major repercussions. After all it could be much worse, you could be living in a dystopian and authoritarian state much like the author George Orwell described in "1984". Ignorance shouldn't dictate opinions and reasoning.

Edited by LdK
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To all the people denying that the US is a police state, have you been to an airport? You get sexually assaulted to prove you're not a terrorist. You get drinks purchased behind the gate tested by people that don't change gloves after patting people down and going inside the underwear. You get ordered to stop on command. Babies get diapers ripped off to prove they're not a terrorist. But people like the underwear bomber get to be escorted past security despite having no passport.

Isn't a characteristic of a police state a militarized national police force? We have that, with cops being given M4A1s and APCs with LRAD devices mounted on them. Besides that, most SWAT Team officers wear masks over their faces, isn't that being secretive in their actions?

The reason why people deny that the "land of the free and home of the brave" is a police state, granted not as bad as East Germany but getting there, is because the media refuses to talk about bills like HR 347, the Patriot Act and section 1021 of the NDAA. It should be added that bills like the NDAA only exist in two other countries: North Korea and China (which didn't pass their bill until after we did and you can only be held 6 months there compared to being held indefinitely here). Don't tell me those two countries are bastions of freedom.

It's a scary thought to grasp that took me a while to accept, but now that I have I see more examples of why this country isn't as free as it claims to be everyday. Don't try to rebut this until you look up those bills I already mentioned.

On topic, to all the Obama supporters, I hope you finally get the change you wanted this time, since it's already 4 years late of what he promised to do. To the Romney supporters, did you actually think someone who had to cheat to win the Republican nomination then excluded some of the most selective voters would win, and did you actually think he would fix the mess this country is in?

Sticks and stones may break bones, but 5.56 fragments on impact.

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To all the people denying that the US is a police state, have you been to an airport? You get sexually assaulted to prove you're not a terrorist. You get drinks purchased behind the gate tested by people that don't change gloves after patting people down and going inside the underwear. You get ordered to stop on command. Babies get diapers ripped off to prove they're not a terrorist. But people like the underwear bomber get to be escorted past security despite having no passport.

Isn't a characteristic of a police state a militarized national police force? We have that, with cops being given M4A1s and APCs with LRAD devices mounted on them. Besides that, most SWAT Team officers wear masks over their faces, isn't that being secretive in their actions?

The reason why people deny that the "land of the free and home of the brave" is a police state, granted not as bad as East Germany but getting there, is because the media refuses to talk about bills like HR 347, the Patriot Act and section 1021 of the NDAA. It should be added that bills like the NDAA only exist in two other countries: North Korea and China (which didn't pass their bill until after we did and you can only be held 6 months there compared to being held indefinitely here). Don't tell me those two countries are bastions of freedom.

It's a scary thought to grasp that took me a while to accept, but now that I have I see more examples of why this country isn't as free as it claims to be everyday. Don't try to rebut this until you look up those bills I already mentioned.

On topic, to all the Obama supporters, I hope you finally get the change you wanted this time, since it's already 4 years late of what he promised to do. To the Romney supporters, did you actually think someone who had to cheat to win the Republican nomination then excluded some of the most selective voters would win, and did you actually think he would fix the mess this country is in?

exactly theres cameras installed on alot of intersections in cities and these are NOT traffic cameras these are cameras you see at a store or a mall the round black ones yeah id say thats another characteristic of a police state i dont go on and make stuff up id look like an idiot its just the scary reality

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To all the people denying that the US is a police state, have you been to an airport? You get sexually assaulted to prove you're not a terrorist. You get drinks purchased behind the gate tested by people that don't change gloves after patting people down and going inside the underwear. You get ordered to stop on command. Babies get diapers ripped off to prove they're not a terrorist. But people like the underwear bomber get to be escorted past security despite having no passport.

Isn't a characteristic of a police state a militarized national police force? We have that, with cops being given M4A1s and APCs with LRAD devices mounted on them. Besides that, most SWAT Team officers wear masks over their faces, isn't that being secretive in their actions?

The reason why people deny that the "land of the free and home of the brave" is a police state, granted not as bad as East Germany but getting there, is because the media refuses to talk about bills like HR 347, the Patriot Act and section 1021 of the NDAA. It should be added that bills like the NDAA only exist in two other countries: North Korea and China (which didn't pass their bill until after we did and you can only be held 6 months there compared to being held indefinitely here). Don't tell me those two countries are bastions of freedom.

It's a scary thought to grasp that took me a while to accept, but now that I have I see more examples of why this country isn't as free as it claims to be everyday. Don't try to rebut this until you look up those bills I already mentioned.

On topic, to all the Obama supporters, I hope you finally get the change you wanted this time, since it's already 4 years late of what he promised to do. To the Romney supporters, did you actually think someone who had to cheat to win the Republican nomination then excluded some of the most selective voters would win, and did you actually think he would fix the mess this country is in?

I respect your opinions and although I am not American, I feel obliged to reply to your post.

First of all, if you look at the amount of weapons in circulations in the US, you can't blame police forces for upgrading their weaponry. Just look at what the guys in Aurora and Columbine High were carrying. Nonetheless, I wouldn't support the second amendment in its current form if I was an American.

Second, SWAT members carry masks to protect their identity. Their actions have to remain secretive in order to protect them and their families from repercussion.

Third, bills like the NDAA are indeed scary. No man should be held indefinitely and without trial. Unfortunately, that is the world we live in.Terrorism has become the number one priority in both the US and Europe, hence the tight airport security. It must be said however that Europe is loosening its security, for example fluids are no longer prohibited in your personnal luggage. I know since I followed the customs and narcotic teams at the airport of Zaventem (Brussels) during my internship with the Belgian federal police. I can't speak for the USA however since I've never been in an American airport.

Furthermore, I believe that institutions like the Supreme Court and the European Court of Human Rights can play a big role in keeping an eye on the government. Section 1021 of the National Defense Authorization Act won't survive the massive claims of unconstitutionality.

Finally, I understand your concerns but as long as you can fight the police in court, you don't live in a police state. Try talking back to a police officer in Eastern European countires like Georgia or Arabic countries like Morocco.

Edited by kjel0112

"Dura lex, sed lex"

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Of course we are entitled to our own opinions and conspiracies what have you. But the fact you can have the freedom to strongly believe and to say that America is a police state or that of a government controlled country and not fear criminal backlash, except the the backlash of other people of different opinions, is a luxury afforded to us by the Constitution (influenced by the Magna Carta).

I mean look at Russia as an example, not to slander that country and their own greatness. but aren't people getting jailed just for protesting the outcome of their rather recent election? I mean here in the US you will never get punished for protesting against a certain person or cause as long as you don't do anything criminal or against the law. Or how about going to China and try holding up a sign to start a protest, you'll find yourself in an interrogation room almost instantly but in the US system of checks and balances, things are supposed to be made fair and just. If we are a police state why do we need courts then? This goes back to what i said prior, we have too many unqualified "experts" who are too naive to understand something much bigger than all of us. It's like writing an essay, you need to find some sources before going about to construct an essay. I cannot say I understand everything nor do I think I would be qualified to. There is an important difference between the quality of opinions of someone informed versus someone patrolling their compound on their riding mower.

But I must ask this now: Why are you still living here? There are immigrant families who would rather have your citizenship and to live in the US. As "propagandic" as I may sound, this is the reality of it all, look our system of government, justice especially, is it perfect? No. But we made it this way to be fair, so the O.J. Simpsons will get away but that is the system we created and for the most part, pretty doggone good and is better than many other countries. However don't stop thinking those thoughts, opinions are what makes us unique and American and what keep driving this damn country. It's just various types of folks with different ideals or perspectives - our ability to have these that makes it so unique. Let's do our best to not blindly follow certain causes or blindly create our opinions.

Edited by LdK
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Of course we are entitled to our own opinions and conspiracies what have you. But the fact you can have the freedom to strongly believe and to say that America is a police state or that of a government controlled country and not fear criminal backlash, except the the backlash of other people of different opinions, is a luxury afforded to us by the Constitution (influenced by the Magna Carta).

My point exactly. :thumbsup:

I mean look at Russia as an example, not to slander that country and their own greatness. but aren't people getting jailed just for protesting the outcome of their rather recent election? I mean here in the US you will never get punished for protesting against a certain person or cause as long as you don't do anything criminal or against the law. Or how about going to China and try holding up a sign to start a protest, you'll find yourself in an interrogation room almost instantly but in the US system of checks and balances, things are supposed to be made fair and just. If we are a police state why do we need courts then? This goes back to what i said prior, we have too many unqualified "experts" who are too naive to understand something much bigger than all of us. It's like writing an essay, you need to find some sources before going about to construct an essay. I cannot say I understand everything nor do I think I would be qualified to. There is an important difference between the quality of opinions of someone informed versus someone patrolling their compound on their riding mower.

Even in Belgium, you will never have the freedom of speech that the US has. When I see people like the New Baptist Church spreading their horrific ideas without any form of repercussion, that makes me respect your unquestioned belief in freedom of speech. Try spreading such ideas in Belgium. You would be all over the news and arrested within minutes.

But I must ask this now: Why are you still living here? There are immigrant families who would rather have your citizenship and to live in the US. As "propagandic" as I may sound, this is the reality of it all, look our system of government, justice especially, is it perfect? No. But we made it this way to be fair, so the O.J. Simpsons will get away but that is the system we created and for the most part, pretty doggone good and is better than many other countries. However don't stop thinking those thoughts, opinions are what makes us unique and American and what keep driving this damn country. It's just various types of folks with different ideals or perspectives - our ability to have these that makes it so unique. Let's do our best to not blindly follow certain causes or blindly create our opinions.

I would give an arm and a leg to move to the US. Unfortunately, I don't have the means to do so. :sad:It's been a long time since I've seen someone discuss in such a respectful and adult way on the internet. :thumbsup:

"Dura lex, sed lex"

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