22 minutes ago, S.Bekowski said:

One thing you need to understand that this country has been through many wars, it has been oppressed and almost wiped off the face of the map completely something you would not understand since this country sacrificed itself to save yours essentially and got the boot thanks to your government. this country was flooded with guns from foreign invaders and people took them, after all these wars a majority of weapons weren't accounted for, where did they go? My Uncle works for a Federal Law Enforcement Agency there and he told me that these stats are false, many people dont want to say they own these weapons or hid them because they fear they may be put on a list and they will be taken away. A friends family member that is a retired police officer has a Browning HP handgun that isnt registered for the same reason and keeps it hidden. The Territorial Defense is a reservist group the US National Guard is Considered a Militia doesn't mean every paramilitary group is associated to it, they are groups of either military veterans, or law enforcement that offer training to the civilian populace and will defend the country if an invasion occurs. For instance look up the AZBR in the US its the same thing in Poland.
 

He can't work for a federal agency as Poland is not a federation. Someone is mistaken here. 

2 minutes ago, Ben said:

I really don't get what your point is anymore. Firstly, let's not break down what was the most complicated war in the history of the world down to my country giving Poland the boot, saying that my government gave the boot to a country that we couldn't access during the beginning of a war with the largest army in the history of the world is just an arrogant view on things.

I once again ask for evidence of these militias, when I google around for Polish paramilitary groups all I can find is that Paramilitary groups are part of the defence force, you have presented nothing to prove otherwise. Yesterday you wanted me to know you understood what officers in the United Kingdom wanted when it came to being armed, because you spoke to them when you visited the United Kingdom, even though there was evidence available towards the contrary on the internet

 

Now you want me to disregard all evidence on the internet regarding the strict nature of Polands gun laws because your uncle may or may not work for the Federal Law Enforcement Agency in Poland which is actually known as the Polijca (translates to Police) which is a National Police Force and the primary Law Enforcement agency, yet he knows more than the years of journalists who have reviewed this matter and the government who put out statistics on it, right. I'm sure next you'll want to try and sell me a bridge.

Most Journalists are biased, I gave you stats on how guns save people etc, you send journalist articles, I dont rely solely on the internet for information, it is a benefit, but I get my info from multiple journalists, stats, and if I'm lucky in person, the benefit for myself is that I have alot of relatives in Poland, and a few are apart of different Law Enforcement Agencies, Also its Policja not Polijca is, there are several other Federal Law Enforcement Agencies there I dont think I need to show you, there are several links you can find on your own I will provide you with evidence of militias im surprised you havent found any. These people  apart of the military, these people were paying for these excercises out of pocket when the governemtn was Liberal and didnt support this. (Also notice him walking out of his home with an M4)

 

1 minute ago, S.Bekowski said:

Most Journalists are biased, I gave you stats on how guns save people etc, you send journalist articles, I dont rely solely on the internet for information, it is a benefit, but I get my info from multiple journalists, stats, and if I'm lucky in person, the benefit for myself is that I have alot of relatives in Poland, and a few are apart of different Law Enforcement Agencies, Also its Policja not Polijca is, there are several other Federal Law Enforcement Agencies there I dont think I need to show you, there are several links you can find on your own I will provide you with evidence of militias im surprised you havent found any. These people  apart of the military, these people were paying for these excercises out of pocket when the governemtn was Liberal and didnt support this. (Also notice him walking out of his home with an M4)

 

If you watch that video, the one you posted, the reporter says how they are volunteer soldiers and how they are being implemented into their national defence plan, this video was from 2016, the implementation was adding them into the Territorial Defence Force, the weapons where owned by the Polish Military and given to them as reservists, so your video doesn't show people owning automatic weapons, because as proven they legally can't, these are reservist soldiers with military equipment.

Also, you sent stats that proved nothing, so please let's not act as if I am just denying facts or something, Poland has less gun ownership than the United Kingdom, also has less murders by guns, yet I don't act as if it proves less guns = less gun deaths, it could be due to multiple variables.

Also, even though I misspelt Policja in my post you quoted, the point still stands, they are the national police of Poland, they are not a federal agency as you state, I'll simply refer you to Hastings for that one, these other Federal Agencies you speak of which aren't actually federal agencies are as follows (English Translations on the names):

 

Internal Security Agency - this is like Britains MI5, they handle counter-terrorism and counter espionage.
Goverment Protection Bureau - Secret Service basically.
Central Anticorruption Bureau - That one is in the name.
Customs Service - Border Control / Border Force / US Customs
Civilian Watch Deatchment - protect military bases
Prison Service  - no explanation needed

Border Guard - US Border Force type blokes

Railway Protection Guard - armed security on trains

Military Gendarmerie - Military Police.

So that would mean that your uncle works for Policja, which raises the question why you didn't just call him a member of that, instead of referring to him as a member of a federal agency, when there isn't any federal agencies is confusing. You have still yet to back up any of what you have said with evidence, and you can't sit around calling journalists biased when your evidence is people that you know, even though I can't tell if these are evne real people.

 

"Most journalists are biased"

>Proceeds to post some random Youtube video from an international broadcast company that shows a news coverage, aka journalists.

 

I see what you did there. I think what you meant was "Most journalists are biased, only the ones that actually back up my point are the true journalists speaking the truth". Either way, you make no sense.

19 minutes ago, Ben said:

If you watch that video, the one you posted, the reporter says how they are volunteer soldiers and how they are being implemented into their national defence plan, this video was from 2016, the implementation was adding them into the Territorial Defence Force, the weapons where owned by the Polish Military and given to them as reservists, so your video doesn't show people owning automatic weapons, because as proven they legally can't, these are reservist soldiers with military equipment.

Also, you sent stats that proved nothing, so please let's not act as if I am just denying facts or something, Poland has less gun ownership than the United Kingdom, also has less murders by guns, yet I don't act as if it proves less guns = less gun deaths, it could be due to multiple variables.

Also, even though I misspelt Policja in my post you quoted, the point still stands, they are the national police of Poland, they are not a federal agency as you state, I'll simply refer you to Hastings for that one, these other Federal Agencies you speak of which aren't actually federal agencies are as follows (English Translations on the names):

 

Internal Security Agency - this is like Britains MI5, they handle counter-terrorism and counter espionage.
Goverment Protection Bureau - Secret Service basically.
Central Anticorruption Bureau - That one is in the name.
Customs Service - Border Control / Border Force / US Customs
Civilian Watch Deatchment - protect military bases
Prison Service  - no explanation needed

Border Guard - US Border Force type blokes

Railway Protection Guard - armed security on trains

Military Gendarmerie - Military Police.

So that would mean that your uncle works for Policja, which raises the question why you didn't just call him a member of that, instead of referring to him as a member of a federal agency, when there isn't any federal agencies is confusing. You have still yet to back up any of what you have said with evidence, and you can't sit around calling journalists biased when your evidence is people that you know, even though I can't tell if these are evne real people.

 

Internal Security Agency - this is like Britains MI5, they handle counter-terrorism and counter espionage. (Federal Agency)
Goverment Protection Bureau - Secret Service basically. (Federal Agency)
Central Anticorruption Bureau - That one is in the name. (Federal Agency)
Customs Service - Border Control / Border Force / US Customs (Federal Agency)
Civilian Watch Deatchment - protect military bases 
Prison Service  - no explanation needed

Border Guard - US Border Force type blokes (Federal Agency)

Railway Protection Guard - armed security on trains 

Military Gendarmerie - Military Police.

Forgot to also mention BOA which are an Anti-Mafia Federal Agency
those I've marked above are federal agencies because they operate FEDERALLY which is the whole country.
Should also mention the people above are receiving training but are paying for it, which you cant do with the Territorial guard, Reservists dont pay to go to training.
Those weapons aren't issued to Reservists since the M4 Platform isnt used by the Polish Government. I thought this was the video of the two guys with the 416 and M4 at their home but its a more recent one when the Government changed and was offering it.
Also I didn't say he was apart of the National Police. I said he was apart of one of the countries Federal Agencies.

19 minutes ago, Hystery said:

"Most journalists are biased"

>Proceeds to post some random Youtube video from an international broadcast company that shows a news coverage, aka journalists.

 

I see what you did there. I think what you meant was "Most journalists are biased, only the ones that actually back up my point are the true journalists speaking the truth". Either way, you make no sense.

Well most journalists are biased but you seem to miss that I said I look at multiple sources, such as journalists, stats, and if im lucky in person. 

Here is another link showing different Paramilitary groups
 

One more link showing a different paramilitary group in Poland, very similar camo so I understand the confusion but notice weapons are not what the Armed Forces use.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by S.Bekowski
Adding more videos

2 minutes ago, S.Bekowski said:

Internal Security Agency - this is like Britains MI5, they handle counter-terrorism and counter espionage. (Federal Agency)
Goverment Protection Bureau - Secret Service basically. (Federal Agency)
Central Anticorruption Bureau - That one is in the name. (Federal Agency)
Customs Service - Border Control / Border Force / US Customs (Federal Agency)
Civilian Watch Deatchment - protect military bases 
Prison Service  - no explanation needed

Border Guard - US Border Force type blokes (Federal Agency)

Railway Protection Guard - armed security on trains 

Military Gendarmerie - Military Police.

Forgot to also mention BOA which are an Anti-Mafia Federal Agency
those I've marked above are federal agencies because they operate FEDERALLY which is the whole country.
Should also mention the people above are receiving training but are paying for it, which you cant do with the Territorial guard, Reservists dont pay to go to training these people.
Those weapons aren't issued to Reservists since the M4 Platform isnt used by the Polish Government. I thought this was the video of the two guys with the 416 and M4 at their home but its a more recent one when the Government changed and was offering it.
Also I didn't say he was apart of the National Police. I said he was apart of one of the countries Federal Agencies.

I have actually taken a look into the laws, and found the recent amendment which allows for the ownership of weapons for situations like this, such as being in a pro-defence paramilitary organisation, so I will admit my mistake in that one. That being said, the criteria is still completely different to America and as such doesn't apply as an example, in order to gain access to a permit you have to go through the following:

'To obtain a firearms license, the applicant must have no criminal record, undertake a medical and psychological evaluation and pass an exam appropriate to their reason for wanting a firearm (held by the police for self-defense, the Polish Sports Shooting Association for target shooting, or the Polish Hunting Association for hunting). Permits are issued indefinitely, although self-defense ones require passing medical and psychological evaluation every 5 years.'

Not only must you have no criminal record at all, you must go through a medical and psych evaluation then if you pass that, you have to do an exam on why you need a gun, the gun laws are completely different in Poland to America, so I think it's fair to say that you cannot use the country as an example of why owning guns work, because the ownership is still lower than the United Kingdom and whilst you can get more guns, the criteria seems like it is the exact same as the United Kingdom.

17 minutes ago, S.Bekowski said:

Internal Security Agency - this is like Britains MI5, they handle counter-terrorism and counter espionage. (Federal Agency)
Goverment Protection Bureau - Secret Service basically. (Federal Agency)
Central Anticorruption Bureau - That one is in the name. (Federal Agency)
Customs Service - Border Control / Border Force / US Customs (Federal Agency)
Civilian Watch Deatchment - protect military bases 
Prison Service  - no explanation needed

Border Guard - US Border Force type blokes (Federal Agency)

Railway Protection Guard - armed security on trains 

Military Gendarmerie - Military Police.

 

Internal Security Agency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agencja_Bezpieczeństwa_Wewnętrznego - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Government Protection Bureau - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Protection_Bureau - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Central Anticorruption Bureau - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Anticorruption_Bureau - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Customs Service - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Service_(Poland) - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Border Guard - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Guard_(Poland) - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

 

 

Why, would you ask? Because they're not federal agencies. For an agency to be considered federal, they need to be functioning in a country that is built around a federal infrastructure, like the US. Poland is like most countries in Europe, a "unitary semi-presidential representative democratic republic, whereby the President is the head of state and the Prime Minister is the head of government". Aka, not federal. Those agencies don't operate "federally" as you say, they operate "nationally", as in within Poland's borders.

 

You're welcome.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by Hystery

18 minutes ago, Ben said:

I have actually taken a look into the laws, and found the recent amendment which allows for the ownership of weapons for situations like this, such as being in a pro-defence paramilitary organisation, so I will admit my mistake in that one. That being said, the criteria is still completely different to America and as such doesn't apply as an example, in order to gain access to a permit you have to go through the following:

'To obtain a firearms license, the applicant must have no criminal record, undertake a medical and psychological evaluation and pass an exam appropriate to their reason for wanting a firearm (held by the police for self-defense, the Polish Sports Shooting Association for target shooting, or the Polish Hunting Association for hunting). Permits are issued indefinitely, although self-defense ones require passing medical and psychological evaluation every 5 years.'

Not only must you have no criminal record at all, you must go through a medical and psych evaluation then if you pass that, you have to do an exam on why you need a gun, the gun laws are completely different in Poland to America, so I think it's fair to say that you cannot use the country as an example of why owning guns work, because the ownership is still lower than the United Kingdom and whilst you can get more guns, the criteria seems like it is the exact same as the United Kingdom.

Well I appreciate you saying that, and its cool and I agree about the things you have to do to obtain one but my whole point is that if you're apart of a Paramilitary Organization then you can get access to these types of weapons and people in Poland are able to get them and nothing bad happens is my point, you even showed me that the country had lower gun crime than yours. 
Just an FYI to you Ben I'm not intending to attack you, you and I have different beliefs and thats alright and I respect that, nothing wrong with debating and sure it can get heated but I want to let you know that.

16 minutes ago, Hystery said:

 

Internal Security Agency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agencja_Bezpieczeństwa_Wewnętrznego - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Government Protection Bureau - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_Protection_Bureau - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Central Anticorruption Bureau - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Anticorruption_Bureau - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Customs Service - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customs_Service_(Poland) - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

Border Guard - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_Guard_(Poland) - no mention of the word federal anywhere.

 

 

Why, would you ask? Because they're not federal agencies. For an agency to be considered federal, they need to be in a country that is built around a federal infrastructure, like the US. Poland is like most countries in Europe, a "unitary semi-presidential representative democratic republic, whereby the President is the head of state and the Prime Minister is the head of government". Aka, not federal. Those agencies don't operate "federally" as you say, they operate "nationally", as in within Poland's borders.

 

You're welcome.

I will submit to that, you are correct, I mixed up the US and Poland system, my point is that they do work and can operate through the entire country. similar to American Federal Agencies.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by S.Bekowski

18 hours ago, S.Bekowski said:

don't see how it's related since politics haven't been brought up? unless you mean the video itself and you're replying to that then apologies.

Nah yeah, meant the video itself. All good bro.