@TheDivineHustle I'm referring to what the average people do when an attack like that happens. I know that Islam is a religion, and not a race, and even I might be a Muslim (but actually I ain't).

8 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Do you mind elaborating a little bit on how exactly blaming Islam would make someone a racist? Last I checked, Islam wasn't a race. When you use such a historically important word so loosely, it loses its true value and meaning. 

That was an intelligent, amazing, blessed man. I respect what he fought for and his word, but I disagree with this particular quote in reference to terrorism.

 

I challenge you to ask victims of terrorism how much they love the attacker. Ask them if they forgive the attacker. I guarantee you, off television, you won't get any positive responses. How can I love and forgive a man that rapes, murders, mutilates, burns, hangs, and beheads innocent people? How would I forgive a man that raped my mother? Or burned my wife in a cage? Or beheaded my children in the middle of the street in broad daylight? This isn't a civil rights movement, this is an attack on all of us and what we hold dear to us.

 

We don't need to fight hate with hate, that doesn't help anything. We need to fight hate with bullets. I'll show how much I love putting them out of this planet so that people don't have to suffer and fear for their lives. It's ridiculous that children are being targeted. It's cowardly, and it pisses me the hell off. I have no love or forgiveness for terrorists, they need to be put down. They don't deserve to be on this planet, and I'd place money that the parents of the girls that lost their lives would agree.

Its not about loving the attacker, its about loving your neighbors, and your Muslim friends. Its about loving and welcoming isolated communities (like the one this attacker lived in in Manchester). We can't bomb extremism, we can't put a travel ban on an ideology. You can't bomb "terror",  you can only bomb people. And bombing people only breeds more terror. The only productive we can do is address the sociological reasons why people are driven to groups like ISIS.

 

Further isolating Muslim communities is immensely counterproductive, hence why I shared the MLK quote.

7 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

The only productive we can do is address the sociological reasons why people are driven to groups like ISIS.

Further isolating Muslim communities is immensely counterproductive, hence why I shared the MLK quote.

 

We don't isolate them, they isolate themselves, as I've said below.

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Its not about loving the attacker, its about loving your neighbors, and your Muslim friends.

It's not the person that I have an issue with, it's the ideology.

 

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Its about loving and welcoming isolated communities (like the one this attacker lived in in Manchester).

They are isolated because they choose to be isolated. They don't want to assimilate, they want society to accommodate to their ideology, which is incompatible with western civilization. That's not a matter of opinion, that's a nasty fact that people keep denying.

 

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We can't bomb extremism, we can't put a travel ban on an ideology. You can't bomb "terror",  you can only bomb people.

 

 

We can't bomb extremism, but we can bomb the breeding ground and "headquarters" of it, thus aiding the end of terror. Bombs may not be the most appropriate course of action, but doing nothing and acting as though the issue doesn't exist is definitely worse.

 

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And bombing people only breeds more terror.

Anyone that would even consider joining ISIS needs to be exiled, they've got some sort of mental issue altogether if they think that joining ISIS is an OK thing to do.

57 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

We don't isolate them, they isolate themselves, as I've said below.

Which is why we need to welcome them into our communities, and do everything we can to make them feel welcome. 

 

57 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

It's not the person that I have an issue with, it's the ideology.

You have an issue with Islam as a whole? There's a term for that, yknow...

 

57 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

They are isolated because they choose to be isolated. They don't want to assimilate, they want society to accommodate to their ideology, which is incompatible with western civilization. That's not a matter of opinion, that's a nasty fact that people keep denying.

Of course immigrants want to be around other immigrants. That's why in NYC, where I'm from, there's a Chinatown and Little Italy. And saying that Islam is incompatible with western civilization is stupid. You probably heard that from some alt-right nutjob. There are around 3.3 million practicing Muslims in the United States. So you get up in arms when people make generalizations about cops, but not the millions of Muslims in America? Do you even know anything about Islam? Can you quote a single verse of the Quran without having to google "bad Islam verses"? 

 

57 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

We can't bomb extremism, but we can bomb the breeding ground and "headquarters" of it, thus aiding the end of terror. Bombs may not be the most appropriate course of action, but doing nothing and acting as though the issue doesn't exist is definitely worse.

You don't get it, dude. You can't kill ideology with bombs. We've been doing that for 17 years now, how has that worked for us? We created ISIS through the instability we created in the middle east, and that's a well-known fact.

 

And for Christ's sake, you and some of the dumber Republican politicians always talk about how we should bomb the ISIS headquarters. Don't you think we've been doing that this whole time? Has it worked? Its not that easy. We will NEVER be able to drop enough bombs to end terror. We have to address fundamentalism, and the sociological factors that lead people to it.

 

57 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

Anyone that would even consider joining ISIS needs to be exiled, they've got some sort of mental issue altogether if they think that joining ISIS is an OK thing to do.

And how do you propose we screen every Muslim for radical ideology without violating their rights?

Edited May 24, 20178 yr by Riley24

23 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

So you get up in arms when people make generalizations about cops, but not the millions of Muslims in America?

 

Yes, because the Police deserve my respect and appreciation. Islam does not.They're the whole reason that I can live my life safe and sound each day without fear of falling victim to a senseless crime. And if I do fall victim to crime, I'm confident that the situation will be resolved in an efficient and timely manner, and that's how everyone should feel about law enforcement. I won't sit by and allow someone to generalize all law enforcement officers based on the actions of a few.

 

The difference is that the actions of Muslim terrorists are based directly off of their ideology, what they live by on a daily basis. The actions of corrupt police officers are based directly off of their own decision to make a bad choice.

 

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Do you even know anything about Islam? Can you quote a single verse of the Quran without having to google "bad Islam verses"? 

I know plenty about Islam, which is why I've grown to dislike it personally. The less I know about Islam, the more I like it. If I don't Bing verses from Islam.... how else would I know anything about Islam? I'm not going to go spend money on the book, lol. Just because I don't love Islam doesn't make me a bigot "racist"...lol. 

 

You ask me if I know anything about Islam. I ask you, have you ever been deployed to Afghanistan? Iraq? Have you ever witnessed the horror of this in person?

 

"Fight everyone in the way of Allah and 
kill those who disbelieve in Allah."  
Muhammad (Ibn Ishaq 992)

 

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads 
and strike off every fingertip of them."  
"Allah"(Quran 8:12)

It doesn't take a college level research project to find the hate ingrained in the ideology.

 

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Of course immigrants want to be around other immigrants. That's why in NYC, where I'm from, there's a Chinatown and Little Italy. And saying that Islam is incompatible with western civilization is stupid. You probably heard that from some alt-right nutjob. There are around 3.3 million practicing Muslims in the United States.

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That's not what I'm saying. Obviously, people are going to reside in areas where the same culture is shared, that's everybody. When these people come into our countries, these refugees, they don't want to assimilate. They want us to accommodate, and that's not how it works. Either you adjust to the nation you're in, or you leave.

 

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You have an issue with Islam as a whole? There's a term for that, yknow...

Yes, I do have an issue with Islam. The more research I conduct on the religion, the more I want to rid it from the planet. If you were knowledgeable about the religion and its true form, you'd feel similarly.

 

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You don't get it, dude. You can't kill ideology with bombs. We've been doing that for 17 years now, how has that worked for us? We created ISIS through the instability we created in the middle east, and that's a well-known fact.

It may not be the best option, but it's more effective than doing absolutely nothing.

 

23 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

And for Christ's sake, you and some of the dumber Republican politicians always talk about how we should bomb the ISIS headquarters. Don't you think we've been doing that this whole time? Has it worked? Its not that easy. We will NEVER be able to drop enough bombs to end terror. We have to address fundamentalism, and the sociological factors that lead people to it.

2

That's not a suggestion exclusive to the Republican Party, friend.

 

I feel as though we've veered off course here. Someone decided to advance their political agenda in the wake of a horrifying attack by a terrorist, and it triggered me, admittedly. I'll go ahead and end the debate here, as to prevent any sort of issue with moderation.

Edited May 24, 20178 yr by TheDivineHustle

12 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

I feel as though we've veered off course here. Someone decided to advance their political agenda in the wake of a horrifying attack by a terrorist, and it triggered me, admittedly. I'll go ahead and end the debate here, as to prevent any sort of issue with moderation.

Glad I read the end of your post first. I shared an MLK quote about love and unity, man. I wasn't advancing an agenda. You're the one that went off about Islam.

4 minutes ago, Riley24 said:

Glad I read the end of your post first. I shared an MLK quote about love and unity, man. I wasn't advancing an agenda. You're the one that went off about Islam.

Not you, that other guy. It's fine to believe in whatever you want, that's the core principle of liberty. Being able to believe and say what you want (to an extent of course, with regards to forum rules and law). I don't disagree with the quote, I just disagreed with its use.

Edited May 25, 20178 yr by TheDivineHustle

People quoting the Quran for its bloodthirsty passages but disregarding the fact that almost every religion (especially christianism/catholicism) has similar passages in their respective holy books will always make me laugh. I guess it's a humanitarian gesture to cheer up after such dramatic events, so I should be thankful.

 

Ain't Islam the problem. It's all the religions.

Oh great, yet another argument has broke out again.

 

Self-control doesn't work.

It's horrific, it's unjust, unethical and unholy.  Though, us tearing into each other over the matter is EXACTLY what ISIS/ISIL want from these barbaric acts.  In the end, the greater good will always win because we have the willpower, the resolve and the resources to continue our way of life and liberty.  

 

I, along with the rest of the free world mourn the loss of the children, the parents and the souls lost in this and other terrorist attacks, let us all stand shoulder to shoulder here and not enter a fight on this forum.