37 minutes ago, Hastings said:

I hate it too when an innocent group of people never known for any violence whatsoever is targeted. Intolerable.

When the comment was made, we had no info whatsoever about the driver, his origins and his motives, it was premature and pointless to make assumptions based on literally nothing. People should be smarter than this and see beyond the lines, people are not made of defined groups, everyone is different.

 

EDIT: for example, when a shooting involving a cop occurs, almost everyone here is ready to say 'let's not judge without evidences, we don't know exactly what happened'. But for this kind of things, we can make wild assumptions without any evidence to back it up? That sounds pretty hypocritical to me =/

Edited December 20, 20169 yr by ScarletDraconis

4 hours ago, ScarletDraconis said:

To be completely honest, I don't know if a concrete barrier would stop a 10-15 tons of metal launched at high speeds, at best it'd just slow it down, but not enough to prevent those terrible events =/

Bollards can be pretty effective:

 

 

As can concrete barriers:

 

1 hour ago, ScarletDraconis said:

when a shooting involving a cop occurs, almost everyone here is ready to say 'let's not judge without evidences, we don't know exactly what happened'. But for this kind of things, we can make wild assumptions without any evidence to back it up?

Just wanted to make a small comment on this. The difference here, though I understand your train of thought, is the blatant redundancy of similar attacks. Usually attacks, such as the most recent one in Germany, are terror attacks. After s thorogh investigation, it's almost always found that the motive was religious based, more specifically on the Islamic side of the spectrum. I'm not going to make any conclusion in regards to the entire Islamic community, because that would be a bit prejudiced and unfair to those that don't share extremist views. All I'm saying is that we've been seeing a constant steady pattern here. It's very plain in sight that a lot of these attacks always lead right back to Islamic extremism. There aren't many other reasons as to why someone would want to plow a truck through a crowd of civilians. Other than to murder and terrorize. Just my opinion though. 

 

When it comes to police involved shootings, there can literally be hundreds of reasons behind it. The difference, as I've stated in a previous thread some time ago, is that law enforcement officers are officers of the law. This means that they're held to higher standards, or should be held to higher standards. When an incident occurs, I will put my faith in the officers training and his dedication and duty to protecting us. As evidence surfaces, I'll change my opinion based on the situation. But that's a matter of opinion and a completely different discussion. If you'd like to respond on what I've said about this particular subject, feel free to send me a PM and we can discuss it. I don't mind at all! I don't wanna steer this off topic, I've had some problems with that over the years. lmao. 

Edited December 20, 20169 yr by TheDivineHustle

36 minutes ago, TheDivineHustle said:

-snip-

While I see where you come from, I think the media hold a great responsibility in the fact that people start to assume things even before anything is known about anyone. Just like the media do not waste an opportunity to relay the info of a cop-involved shooting, they do not waste an opportunity to relay the info that an attacker could be a refugee, or a muslim, or both. But how many people here actually have heard that earlier in the afternoon of yesterday, a 24 years old Swiss man shot two people near a muslim prayer local, before killing himself not long after? Not many I would bet, because the media did not talk about it. Why though? Aren't they people just like everyone else? The fact they were muslim and it was near a prayer building surely wasn't a coincidence, so was that the reason why they did not talk about it? Because the shooter was a white, european guy, so it wasn't as juicy as if it was a muslim refugee?

 

I agree that there seems to be a recurrence, but that recurrence we seem to feel is also influenced by the media who relay only the info people want to get. =/

1 hour ago, ScarletDraconis said:

While I see where you come from, I think the media hold a great responsibility in the fact that people start to assume things even before anything is known about anyone. Just like the media do not waste an opportunity to relay the info of a cop-involved shooting, they do not waste an opportunity to relay the info that an attacker could be a refugee, or a muslim, or both. But how many people here actually have heard that earlier in the afternoon of yesterday, a 24 years old Swiss man shot two people near a muslim prayer local, before killing himself not long after? Not many I would bet, because the media did not talk about it. Why though? Aren't they people just like everyone else? The fact they were muslim and it was near a prayer building surely wasn't a coincidence, so was that the reason why they did not talk about it? Because the shooter was a white, european guy, so it wasn't as juicy as if it was a muslim refugee?

 

I agree that there seems to be a recurrence, but that recurrence we seem to feel is also influenced by the media who relay only the info people want to get. =/

Yes I can definitely understand what you're saying, but the media isn't completely bogus when it comes to the claims that they cause people to make. I think it's safe to say that a majority of the attacks that have occurred this year alone were, in someway shape or form, directly as a result of Islamic extremism. In my own opinion I feel that the media is taking a very true situation of Islamic extremism, and attempting to connect all incidents of terror to extremism. Just because someone shot up a theater doesn't mean that they're an Islamic extremist, I get that. But my point is: What are the chances of a suspected individual(s) being Islamic extremists in an attack? I think it's fair to say the chances would be relatively high given the status of our world today.

 

As I've previously stated, I agree that the media does enjoy baiting people to believe that all Muslims are terrorists, but if you look at the reoccurrence of attacks, it really doesn't help change that mindset that a lot of people have.  

Edited December 20, 20169 yr by TheDivineHustle

6 hours ago, ScarletDraconis said:

When the comment was made, we had no info whatsoever about the driver, his origins and his motives, it was premature and pointless to make assumptions based on literally nothing. People should be smarter than this and see beyond the lines, people are not made of defined groups, everyone is different.

 

EDIT: for example, when a shooting involving a cop occurs, almost everyone here is ready to say 'let's not judge without evidences, we don't know exactly what happened'. But for this kind of things, we can make wild assumptions without any evidence to back it up? That sounds pretty hypocritical to me =/

This kind of political correctness is exactly why people keep dying. Several terrorist attacks have occurred in Europe in recent years, and most of the attackers have held the same ideology. How many times does this need to occur before people get a clue?

18 minutes ago, MayhemMercenary said:

This kind of political correctness is exactly why people keep dying. Several terrorist attacks have occurred in Europe in recent years, and most of the attackers have held the same ideology. How many times does this need to occur before people get a clue?

 

We should never jump to conclusions, even though that is the easiest path to take. Such assumptions lead to more fear in the world, something we do not need.

1 hour ago, ineseri said:

 

We should never jump to conclusions, even though that is the easiest path to take. Such assumptions lead to more fear in the world, something we do not need.

I agree that jumping to conclusions is bad, but only when you have no evidence for your conclusion. It's not illogical to come to the conclusion that the driver of a truck that injured 48 people and killed 12, was influenced by Islam. Why? The same style of attack was carried out in Nice not too long ago by an Islamic terrorist. Not only that, but nearly every recent terrorist attack in Europe has been carried out by a person or group influenced by Islam. People are dying, yet no one has the audacity to say it how it is because they are afraid of the backlash from others.

Edited December 20, 20169 yr by MayhemMercenary

1 hour ago, ineseri said:

 

We should never jump to conclusions, even though that is the easiest path to take. Such assumptions lead to more fear in the world, something we do not need.

In defense of MayhemMercenary, it's not necessarily that the conclusion he's making is the easiest solution. Sometimes the conclusion that people make, depending on the circumstances of course, can be completely blatant. While I can agree that the media is attempting to juice as much as it can out of the whole "Muslims are terrorists" thing, we also need to stop acting as though the issue has nothing to do with Islam or extremism. Based on what's transpired this year, I think it's safe to say that a majority of the terror attacks were directly connected to Islamic extremism. It is what it is, avoiding it isn't going to make it any better. We can address the issue without grouping an entire religion of people together. 

The German police are currently on a manhunt for the suspect, they have some leads. 

19 hours ago, MayhemMercenary said:

I agree that jumping to conclusions is bad, but only when you have no evidence for your conclusion. It's not illogical to come to the conclusion that the driver of a truck that injured 48 people and killed 12, was influenced by Islam. Why? The same style of attack was carried out in Nice not too long ago by an Islamic terrorist. Not only that, but nearly every recent terrorist attack in Europe has been carried out by a person or group influenced by Islam. People are dying, yet no one has the audacity to say it how it is because they are afraid of the backlash from others.

 

The problem with this logic is that it still makes people jump to conclusion without any proof. It induces fear of strangers into people, when they shouldn't be afraid. For example, today I've heard that Adam Saleh, an american youtuber, got kicked of a Delta Airlines plane in London because he spoke arabic to his mom on the phone. He didn't do anything else, he simply spoke arabic. Some people said it made them 'uncomfortable' because of it, and threatened to walk out of the plane if they weren't kicking him out instead. And they did so. They waved good bye while smiling as he was being kicked out. An american citizen, who just called his mom to tell her the plane was going to take off. Do you think it's normal for people to come to conclusions like that, just because the dude spoke arabic? If he spoke spanish or italian, no one would have batted an eye. But because he spoke arabic, people automatically felt threatened, because they just jump to conclusions like that. It doesn't make sense, but that's what is happening and will keep happening on larger scale if we keep making amalgams and if we keep jumping to conclusions without any evidence. Even just making assumptions is not reasonable.

 

I don't want to live in a world where people get segregated because of the language they speak or the religion they believe in. We're in 2016 for god's sake... =/

Edited December 21, 20169 yr by ScarletDraconis

On 12/21/2016 at 12:16 PM, ScarletDraconis said:

 

The problem with this logic is that it still makes people jump to conclusion without any proof. It induces fear of strangers into people, when they shouldn't be afraid. For example, today I've heard that Adam Saleh, an american youtuber, got kicked of a Delta Airlines plane in London because he spoke arabic to his mom on the phone. He didn't do anything else, he simply spoke arabic. Some people said it made them 'uncomfortable' because of it, and threatened to walk out of the plane if they weren't kicking him out instead. And they did so. They waved good bye while smiling as he was being kicked out. An american citizen, who just called his mom to tell her the plane was going to take off. Do you think it's normal for people to come to conclusions like that, just because the dude spoke arabic? If he spoke spanish or italian, no one would have batted an eye. But because he spoke arabic, people automatically felt threatened, because they just jump to conclusions like that. It doesn't make sense, but that's what is happening and will keep happening on larger scale if we keep making amalgams and if we keep jumping to conclusions without any evidence. Even just making assumptions is not reasonable.

 

I don't want to live in a world where people get segregated because of the language they speak or the religion they believe in. We're in 2016 for god's sake... =/

I can understand why the passengers were uncomfortable, and I also see your point. I'm right with you when it comes to segregation. I don't want to live in a world like that either. Everyone keeps beating around the bush because they are afraid of offending people, but that's not acceptable when people are dying.

Edited September 4, 20196 yr by MayhemMercenary

I'm going to comment a little bit on this. 

 

The suspicions that it was a terrorist attack by an Islamic extremist was true. It was true to the pattern of terrorist attacks in Europe since the unvetted mass immigration of migrants from the Middle East and Northern Africa since the refugee crisis in Syria. I must add that most of them aren't even refugees, and most of them aren't from Syria, but took advantage of the situation.

 

This specific incident involved a Tunisian migrant who stole the truck and drove it into the market. Rather almost too coincidentally (I'd even say suspiciously), he left behind his ID leading him to be identified as the perpetrator, and allowing the original suspect (another migrant for future reference) to be concretely solidly cleared on top of the past DNA test clearing him. ISIS also has claimed responsibility.

 

This leaves the question, what do we do now? This is another example of Islamic terrorism in Europe, and might even be an example of government purposely condoning the actions in order to pass new restrictions on freedoms in Europe as well as another way to grab power. I've even heard claims (which in this case could very well be false) the government had known about the attack beforehand. Another reason this could be the government condoning the attacks is the fear of being called racist, which happens quite often now in Europe, especially with sexual assault and rape cases. No matter what, something has to be done, and it shouldn't be by limiting freedoms of the citizenry.

 

I've heard numerous new laws of censorship when people try to bring up just how negatively the immigration has impacted Europe, including with the massive increase in violent and sexual crimes, as well as terrorism in general. When people bring it up as criticism, it's labeled islamophobic, and written off as hate speech. In many European countries, you'll even be prosecuted for speaking out against the current situation. Limiting the citizenry's rights to criticize their governments horrendously costly decisions is a sure way to pave the way for things to come. If there's anything I can say, is that we may have another post break up Yugoslavia on our hands, but this time around it's the whole of Europe. At the least, we'll see many new violent conflicts.

 

That's just how I am calling it for the current situation.

Edited December 23, 20169 yr by crkinnh

The Prime suspect Anis Amri was shot to death in italy by the police

during a traffic control.

Source (german): http://www.stern.de/panorama/weltgeschehen/berlin-ticker--anis-amri-in-mailand-erschossen---italienisches-innenministerium-bestaetigt-7253208.html

Edited December 23, 20169 yr by NeulandInternet

On 12/21/2016 at 2:59 PM, MayhemMercenary said:

I can understand why the passengers were uncomfortable, and I also see your point. I'm right with you when it comes to segregation. I don't want to live in a world like that either. My whole point is that most terrorists are Muslims, and it needs to be addressed. Everyone keeps beating around the bush because they are afraid of offending people, but that's not acceptable when people are dying.

 

That story is 100% fake. I was very skeptical about this story when it first came out, and what do you know this guy pulls yet another fake story. It's no surprise, he has videos in the past where he makes a "social experiment" but it turns out to be a hoax. Stories like these really make me angry, because it tarnishes the reputation of good respectable mulisms that are out there. Anyways, just thought I'd share some updates to this prankster. 

 

What exactly does blaming Islam accomplish, other than marginalizing an entire population of people, other than marginalizing an entire population?

 

 What does forcing millions of innocent people to live in war-torn Syria accomplish, other than create more terrorists?

 

What does bombing them do, other than destroy their infastructiure and kill their families, which obviously would lead to their hatred of us and their inevitable radicalization?

3 hours ago, TheSandwichStealer said:

 

That story is 100% fake. I was very skeptical about this story when it first came out, and what do you know this guy pulls yet another fake story. It's no surprise, he has videos in the past where he makes a "social experiment" but it turns out to be a hoax. Stories like these really make me angry, because it tarnishes the reputation of good respectable mulisms that are out there. Anyways, just thought I'd share some updates to this prankster.

 

I'm sorry but... what story are you talking about? We were talking about the story of a guy being kicked out of the plane he was on before taking off, even being checked by the british police just because he spoke arabic in the plane, when on phone with his mom. He filmed the whole process of him being kicked out, and even British Airways said they'd conduct an internal investigation. So, I really don't know what story you call fake...

Edited December 23, 20169 yr by ScarletDraconis

2 hours ago, Riley24 said:

What exactly does blaming Islam accomplish, other than marginalizing an entire population of people, other than marginalizing an entire population?

 

 What does forcing millions of innocent people to live in war-torn Syria accomplish, other than create more terrorists?

 

What does bombing them do, other than destroy their infastructiure and kill their families, which obviously would lead to their hatred of us and their inevitable radicalization?

We aren't blaming Islam, friend, we're blaming those that take Islam to an extreme level and use the religion as an excuse to terrorize and murder innocent people. I would disagree with the claim that all Muslims are terrorists, but I can come closer to agreeing with the claim that all (or most, which would be more realistic) terrorists are Muslim. If you look at just about every terror attack that's transpired over 2016, I think it's safe to say that most of them were committed by followers of Islam. It isn't that we want to marginalize the entire religion, we ("we" representing those of us that recognize that the attackers are usually Muslim in faith) just want people (those that claim there is no connection between Islam and the terror attacks) to stop acting as though there isn't a trend in the commencement of attacks that have been occurring. Is it a coincidence that with the influx of refugees and migrants, the number of rapes and terror attacks have been increasing across Europe? Is it a coincidence that ISIS has claimed responsibility for a majority of the attacks that have occurred this year, and the attackers have also pledged their allegiance to ISIS and other Islamic based terror groups? Why is it that terror attacks increase with more refugees entering western nations? Why is it that Muslim nations are refusing to take the, mostly Muslim, refugees? Why is it that a good portion of the terrorists, as concluded by a few simple Bing searches, are refugees? Why is it that half of these "refugees" aren't even from Syria, according to some basic research?

 

All I'm saying is that there's a very obvious connection between terror attacks and Islam. Now that doesn't necessarily mean that all Muslims are terrorists, but you can't honestly sit here and say that there hasn't been any sort of trend in the attacks. Why not address the issue and work to create a solution? 

 

Out of curiosity, what do you suggest the west do to resolve the issue? 

Edited December 23, 20169 yr by TheDivineHustle

2 hours ago, ScarletDraconis said:

I'm sorry but... what story are you talking about? We were talking about the story of a guy being kicked out of the plane he was on before taking off, even being checked by the british police just because he spoke arabic in the plane, when on phone with his mom. He filmed the whole process of him being kicked out, and even British Airways said they'd conduct an internal investigation. So, I really don't know what story you call fake...

 

That story is fake, just look at his past videos, he has done numerous fake pranks and experiments (including doing one trying to point the NYPD as racist), call it what you want, but this guy is a fake, the evidence is right there. Adam Saleh is just doing this for attention and he is making a mockery of muslims everywhere. 

Edited December 23, 20169 yr by TheSandwichStealer

2 hours ago, ScarletDraconis said:

I'm sorry but... what story are you talking about? We were talking about the story of a guy being kicked out of the plane he was on before taking off, even being checked by the british police just because he spoke arabic in the plane, when on phone with his mom. He filmed the whole process of him being kicked out, and even British Airways said they'd conduct an internal investigation. So, I really don't know what story you call fake...

And lets not bring British Airways into it, it was DEFINITELY Delta, not British Airways. It was at London Heathrow (hence the UK police presence) but certainly not on a BA aircraft.