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How long should a police academy be?


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Hello y'all!!

I am right now in the process of becoming a LEO in the State of Berlin in Germany and I am attending the police college to graduate on a bachelor degree for policing. I have heard numerous times that the police academies in the States are only about 6-8 Months long and I was suprised by it, knowing that colleges and academies in all over Europe require at least two years of studying and training to become LEOs in the respective departements. So I would like to know of you guys whether you think 6 months academy was enough to prepare you for your future occupation or if you thought a little bit more would have been better.

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In Russia there are several types of training programs, each has a different length.

A police college program lasts for 1-2 years, depending on your education level. However, an ordinary patrolman doesn't have to attend it, instead he receives a six-month training and is eligible for the lowest non-officer ranks (from private to sergeant)

A police academy program lasts 4 years, and a graduate receives an officer rank (they start from lieutenant).

However, you may already possess a university degree (bachelor, master, or specialist), so you only have to pass an exam to receive an officer rank. 

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My academy training (Belgium) lasted for one year. During training, you also have to complete two internships with your local police department where you live. During these internships, you perform normal police duties with a field training officer. When graduated, you still have to complete a 6 months probation period with the department you are hired with. After that, you're a full sworn police officer.
Graduating police academy doesn't grant you any type of bachelor or masters degree over here though. I do have a masters degree which makes it possible to apply for an officer rank without going through lower ranks first. I prefer climbing the ladder though.
For me, one year of training is sufficient. I do learn every day though out on the streets.

"Dura lex, sed lex"

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1 hour ago, Monty0112 said:

My academy training (Belgium) lasted for one year. During training, you also have to complete two internships with your local police department where you live. During these internships, you perform normal police duties with a field training officer. When graduated, you still have to complete a 6 months probation period with the department you are hired with. After that, you're a full sworn police officer.
Graduating police academy doesn't grant you any type of bachelor or masters degree over here though. I do have a masters degree which makes it possible to apply for an officer rank without going through lower ranks first. I prefer climbing the ladder though.
For me, one year of training is sufficient. I do learn every day though out on the streets.

is the training hard here in belgium?

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2 minutes ago, Kirigaya said:

is the training hard here in belgium?

If you're motivated and comitted 100%, it's tough but definitely doable. You'll get to know other like-minded people and create new friendships. However, it's also a year of hard work, lots of studying, writing essays and reports, plenty of practical/theoretical tests and working on your physical condition. The strenuous self defense courses will get you bruised up and make your muscles sore. You'll learn basic policing skills like radio procedures, communication skills, traffic courses, self defense, shooting, law, police procedures, etc. All in all, it's a year of testing how much you want this job and if you are ready for it. You'll have a less active social life during that year but for me, it was all worth it. 

"Dura lex, sed lex"

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52 minutes ago, Monty0112 said:

If you're motivated and comitted 100%, it's tough but definitely doable. You'll get to know other like-minded people and create new friendships. However, it's also a year of hard work, lots of studying, writing essays and reports, plenty of practical/theoretical tests and working on your physical condition. The strenuous self defense courses will get you bruised up and make your muscles sore. You'll learn basic policing skills like radio procedures, communication skills, traffic courses, self defense, shooting, law, police procedures, etc. All in all, it's a year of testing how much you want this job and if you are ready for it. You'll have a less active social life during that year but for me, it was all worth it. 

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few questions? Do you need some profession-related education (like a law degree)? And is there a chance to be promoted to investigative positions, if you start as a patrol officer?

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1 hour ago, Hastings said:

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few questions? Do you need some profession-related education (like a law degree)? And is there a chance to be promoted to investigative positions, if you start as a patrol officer?

Feel free to ask any questions you have. I'll answer via personal message. This way, we don't clutter the topic with our conversation. :smile:

Edited by Monty0112

"Dura lex, sed lex"

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Mine was 21 weeks long. I'm against colleges attempting to prepare you for a career in law enforcement. 

21 weeks is PLENTY long enough to learn the basic legals and operating procedures (driving, use of force, tactics, etc). And still have time to actually do practical training and exercises (roleplaying).  Knowing why the Carroll doctrine exists and knowing when and where it was established doesn't really help you (Although, ironically I prosecute my own cases, so for me it does help). 

In actuality, 21 weeks is longer than what is necessary, in my opinion; 12-16 weeks is plenty. I went through a highway patrol academy so I had a few weeks of nothing but traffic law.

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18 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

Hello y'all!!

I am right now in the process of becoming a LEO in the State of Berlin in Germany and I am attending the police college to graduate on a bachelor degree for policing. I have heard numerous times that the police academies in the States are only about 6-8 Months long and I was suprised by it, knowing that colleges and academies in all over Europe require at least two years of studying and training to become LEOs in the respective departements. So I would like to know of you guys whether you think 6 months academy was enough to prepare you for your future occupation or if you thought a little bit more would have been better.

In the U.S. 10 weeks is the length of the academy for every state I've lived in, regardless of whether you're attending to become a part time or full time officer. The only difference is that if you are becoming a full time police officer, you have to live at the academy. Part-timers get to go home. An actual criminal justice degree takes two years when attending college full time, but it is not required for the job, technically. Depending on the state, different agencies will have their own academy. In others, the Sheriff's Office, State Troopers an Local Police agencies all attend the same academy, and your proof of graduation and resume will be submitted to all law enforcement agencies in the state automatically upon graduating.

Edited by unr3al

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I find it interesting to hear, that you guys think 20 or more weeks is plenty of time. In our case here in Germany, the law is kinda complex and as a police officer you have to know most sections of the law like homicide, battery or theft in a way, that you can learn about the possible incriminations and the legal basis to use your equipment and the sidearm. Furthermore you have to know the laws concerning assemblies and demonstrations. The biggest part although is the laws dealing with averting of danger, which is the biggest topics as a uniformed police officer in Germany. With my background I would never think, that 20 weeks or so can be sufficent enough to deal with situations on the job from the first day on professionaly and with the legal knowledge required to not incriminate oneself. But I do not want to "downgrade" your academies because as I mentioned I do not know the common law and especially not the American laws, so they might be easy to pick up, who knows? I mean I almost felt like a lawyer when we had tests in the specific law subjects.
And then furthermore my practical topics like shooting, Field Training, Behavioural Training, Driving and Training for demonstrations took more than 20 weeks.

Edited by Coltsmith
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4 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

I find it interesting to hear, that you guys think 20 or more weeks is plenty of time. In our case here in Germany, the law is kinda complex and as a police officer you have to know most sections of the law like homicide, battery or theft in a way, that you can learn about the possible incriminations and the legal basis to use your equipment and the sidearm. Furthermore you have to know the laws concerning assemblies and demonstrations. The biggest part although is the laws dealing with averting of danger, which is the biggest topics as a uniformed police officer in Germany. With my background I would never think, that 20 weeks or so can be sufficent enough to deal with situations on the job from the first day on professionaly and with the legal knowledge required to not incriminate oneself. But I do not want to "downgrade" your academies because as I mentioned I do not know the common law and especially not the American laws, so they might be easy to pick up, who knows? I mean I almost felt like a lawyer when we had tests in the specific law subjects.
And then furthermore my practical topics like shooting, Field Training, Behavioural Training, Driving and Training for demonstrations took more than 20 weeks.

Not much more I can say other than 'Different academies for different laws and different rules of engagement'. Our nations share the same ideals but both our citizens and our police go about their daily lives very differently here than in many European countries, not just Germany.

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8 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

I find it interesting to hear, that you guys think 20 or more weeks is plenty of time. In our case here in Germany, the law is kinda complex and as a police officer you have to know most sections of the law like homicide, battery or theft in a way, that you can learn about the possible incriminations and the legal basis to use your equipment and the sidearm. Furthermore you have to know the laws concerning assemblies and demonstrations. The biggest part although is the laws dealing with averting of danger, which is the biggest topics as a uniformed police officer in Germany. With my background I would never think, that 20 weeks or so can be sufficent enough to deal with situations on the job from the first day on professionaly and with the legal knowledge required to not incriminate oneself. But I do not want to "downgrade" your academies because as I mentioned I do not know the common law and especially not the American laws, so they might be easy to pick up, who knows? I mean I almost felt like a lawyer when we had tests in the specific law subjects.
And then furthermore my practical topics like shooting, Field Training, Behavioural Training, Driving and Training for demonstrations took more than 20 weeks.

Thats surprisinf to hear. I've been through pretty much all the training you've had and 21 weeks seemed like overkill. Are your laws and statutes complicated (I.e. elements, conditions, etc)? Take for example battery.

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14 hours ago, Pavelow said:

Thats surprisinf to hear. I've been through pretty much all the training you've had and 21 weeks seemed like overkill. Are your laws and statutes complicated (I.e. elements, conditions, etc)? Take for example battery.

If you take battery as an example, there are certain elements you have to learn. Frist of all you have to know the definitions in the section about battery, in this case bodily harm and / or  damage to health as the objective criterion. Furthermore you have to analyse the intent of the subject regarding the bodily harm and health damage (e.g. does the suspect had strict intentions on hurting the victim). After that you have to analyse whether a suspect is eligible to be prosecuted, or whether the suspect has justifications or a mental illness or is considered too young to be prosecuted. Last of all you have to check if the victim wants to press charges. But we are not done yet, as the battery can also have qualifications, those are dangerous assault, aggravated assault, mistreatment of protegees, battery with a deadly outcome and finally battery conducted by an offical. All those have new criterias, which are also analysed and if you get something wrong, the perpetrator might get out of jail. So yeah, I dunno about your criminal law, but thats the basic analysis you have to know as a police officer in Germany.

18 hours ago, unr3al said:

Not much more I can say other than 'Different academies for different laws and different rules of engagement'. Our nations share the same ideals but both our citizens and our police go about their daily lives very differently here than in many European countries, not just Germany.

That might be true, but hearing about the recent cases of police misconduct (whether its justified to call it that or not, I wasn't in the situation so I dont know) and the rejection I have seen from officers regarding the introduction of behavioural training (my infos are from a sequence at the Seattle PD, so that is only one department), I think a little bit more training wouldn't hurt, would it? I mean other job postings with the same amount of salary do have a longer educational period as well, or am I mistaking?

Edited by Coltsmith
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1 hour ago, Coltsmith said:

If you take battery as an example, there are certain elements you have to learn. Frist of all you have to know the definitions in the section about battery, in this case bodily harm and / or  damage to health as the objective criterion. Furthermore you have to analyse the intent of the subject regarding the bodily harm and health damage (e.g. does the suspect had strict intentions on hurting the victim). After that you have to analyse whether a suspect is eligible to be prosecuted, or whether the suspect has justifications or a mental illness or is considered too young to be prosecuted. Last of all you have to check if the victim wants to press charges. But we are not done yet, as the battery can also have qualifications, those are dangerous assault, aggravated assault, mistreatment of protegees, battery with a deadly outcome and finally battery conducted by an offical. All those have new criterias, which are also analysed and if you get something wrong, the perpetrator might get out of jail. So yeah, I dunno about your criminal law, but thats the basic analysis you have to know as a police officer in Germany.

That might be true, but hearing about the recent cases of police misconduct (whether its justified to call it that or not, I wasn't in the situation so I dont know) and the rejection I have seen from officers regarding the introduction of behavioural training (my infos are from a sequence at the Seattle PD, so that is only one department), I think a little bit more training wouldn't hurt, would it? I mean other job postings with the same amount of salary do have a longer educational period as well, or am I mistaking?

For the most part our battery (For me it's called Assault) is the same. Then we use a 1+1+1...etc method to determine the degrees of the charges. Assault 3rd, 2nd, 1st. Or Assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature. Plus just basic definitions of injury. 

 

And most police agencies here are self-sustained. Meaning their salaries are usually reflective of the community they police. Not exactly balanced at all. 

 

For example I work for a highway patrol agency (state level Law enforcement) and my training was 100x harder and 10 weeks longer than every other agency. Yet my salary is one of the top 5 lowest in the state for a full time law enforcement officer.

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On 11/15/2015, 11:59:51, Pavelow said:

Knowing why the Carroll doctrine exists and knowing when and where it was established doesn't really help you (Although, ironically I prosecute my own cases, so for me it does help).

That couldn't be further from the truth. Every officer, regardless if they are some small town officer or working for a large state agency should know case law because once you are up on the stand and a defense attorney is asking you to explain Carroll Doctrine or a Terry Stop and you can't explain it you just lost all credibility. Case law is extremely important to every law enforcement officer because it dictates how they can do their job.

 

My academy was 6 months long (so about 26 weeks). Is that long enough to be proficient at the job? In my opinion, no. However most agencies have a FTO phase where you are out on the street with a Field Training Officer (FTO) and they show you most of the stuff the academy doesn't teach you and how to use what you learned in the academy on the street. I think a 6 month long academy is long enough, I could see extending it by maybe an extra month or two but eventually you have to get out of the classroom environment and see how to put what you are learning into use.

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20 hours ago, l3ubba said:

That couldn't be further from the truth. Every officer, regardless if they are some small town officer or working for a large state agency should know case law because once you are up on the stand and a defense attorney is asking you to explain Carroll Doctrine or a Terry Stop and you can't explain it you just lost all credibility. Case law is extremely important to every law enforcement officer because it dictates how they can do their job.

 

My academy was 6 months long (so about 26 weeks). Is that long enough to be proficient at the job? In my opinion, no. However most agencies have a FTO phase where you are out on the street with a Field Training Officer (FTO) and they show you most of the stuff the academy doesn't teach you and how to use what you learned in the academy on the street. I think a 6 month long academy is long enough, I could see extending it by maybe an extra month or two but eventually you have to get out of the classroom environment and see how to put what you are learning into use.

I understand that you prefer having a street level experience with that FTO phase and I guess we have little to no Field Training in actual units (like the precint or riot police) in most cases those periods are about two months of the total college (although we have the opportunity to do internships in foreign agencies, even in the US!). But to comment on the opposite perspective, you could argue that only LEOs with little to no education are confronted with real situations and real dangers and I dont know if thats a good way to train officers, because they already have to make the decisions and perform the actions of full fledged officers and I dont know if every recruit really considers the burden and the reponsibility that lies upon him.

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2 hours ago, Coltsmith said:

I understand that you prefer having a street level experience with that FTO phase and I guess we have little to no Field Training in actual units (like the precint or riot police) in most cases those periods are about two months of the total college (although we have the opportunity to do internships in foreign agencies, even in the US!). But to comment on the opposite perspective, you could argue that only LEOs with little to no education are confronted with real situations and real dangers and I dont know if thats a good way to train officers, because they already have to make the decisions and perform the actions of full fledged officers and I dont know if every recruit really considers the burden and the reponsibility that lies upon him.

Fair point. I just think two years to simply become a police officer (then a minimum of another 2 years if you want a college degree) is too long. If that much training is invested into officers they are going to want better pay because who wants to spend two years training for a job you aren't even guaranteed only to come out and make $25k a year? I can't think of very many professions that require 2+ years of school/training that have such low starting salaries (school teachers and social workers are the only ones that come to mind).

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18 minutes ago, l3ubba said:

Fair point. I just think two years to simply become a police officer (then a minimum of another 2 years if you want a college degree) is too long. If that much training is invested into officers they are going to want better pay because who wants to spend two years training for a job you aren't even guaranteed only to come out and make $25k a year? I can't think of very many professions that require 2+ years of school/training that have such low starting salaries (school teachers and social workers are the only ones that come to mind).

Well in Germany it is common for most of the jobs to have an educational period of 1-3 years, so maybe the educational standards are different. Although the school system isnt the best in Germany so that might compensate that, who knows?

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